AIRPOWER/Cold War - Its literally the first two lines of their hymn

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Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Started at the very beginning of the thread a little over a month ago, as the Crimean situation was getting rolling and just got to the end today. Amazing thread.

Content- I know the Errol Morris documentary on McNamara, Fog of War has been mentioned earlier in the thread. His documentary on Rumsfeld (same interview type format) The Unknown Known just came out last week. Haven't seen it yet, but Morris has a 4 part series in the NY Times on Rumsfeld. Part one here. Not completely Cold War, but definitely related.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2014 19:01

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:08

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

MRC48B posted:

The early reviews I read from festival showings said Rumsfeld was smug and thoroughly unapologetic. I will see it. But I will not enjoy it.

Yeah, the ones I've read say that Rumsfeld displays none of the guilt and self-criticism that McNamara has in Fog of War and reportedly, throughout his later life.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2014 20:45

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Nebakenezzer posted:

And Cheney is all "Its either I consume this child's life-force or America looses her hyperpower status."

I'm hoping in the coming decades, Cheney becomes a standard movie/TV villain, sorta like Nixon.

Coen brothers are like 15 years ahead of the curve.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2014 18:14

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

iyaayas01 posted:

As much as I vehemently disagree with Gates's approach towards airpower specifically and the whole "next war-itis" concept generally, I find it hard to muster up even a bit of condemnation towards him...partially because I think he's incredibly smart and one of the few true strategic thinkers we've had in the defense/intel establishment over the past 20 years, but mostly because he's not Rumsfeld.

Gates seems like one of the savvier cabinet members, in either the Bush or Obama administrations. I'm interested to read his book at some point.

Back to the Cold War, but similarly: I read Kissinger's memoirs when I was in high school (over a decade ago) and I know he address the '71 India-Pakistan War- the US backing Pakistan and the Soviets backing India (though I'm unclear on the extent of their support). The whole thing also had a lot to do with the Sino-Soviet split and the US trying to play the PRC against the USSR. Reading up online a bit, I see there was a US-Soviet naval confrontation. Anybody know more about the Cold War implications or know any good sources on it?

# ¿ Apr 9, 2014 22:37

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Yeah, while it was years ago that I read it, even as a teenager, I didn't really buy Kissinger as an impartial historian of his own actions.

I'll definitely check out the Bass book.

I found this piece about the war that mentions a standoff between elements of the Soviet Pacific Fleet and both the British and US navies, but I'm more than a bit dubious about the quality of the site, as it seems to be an international student run volunteer news site.

# ¿ Apr 9, 2014 23:22

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Count Sacula posted:

Can we talk more about SCROTUMS?

What was that? Please tell me it's real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCtIHkMuDY8

The real problem is that it's not an acronym you really want to google.

# ¿ Apr 10, 2014 17:03

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Cyrano4747 posted:

edit: Oh poo poo, am I a congressman from Virginia or Maine? In that case forget everything up there, the answer is to build as many loving boats as we can. Have you seen my proposal to re-commission the USS Missouri as a modern bombardment platform? She fought in World War 2 don't you know p.s. buy more subs

gently caress that noise. If I'm from Virginia, we need to triple our number of carriers and they all need to be based in Norfolk, and nowhere else.

e: I was working in Virginia state politics when they were talking about rebasing the carriers to FL and it was probably the only thing that literally every elected official in Virginia from Mayor of Bumfuck to US Senator agreed on.

Veritek83 fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Apr 16, 2014

# ¿ Apr 16, 2014 22:48

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Cyrano4747 posted:

Not for a while. The Mackie didn't protype until sometime in the 2430s I think, and even then it was a total shitbox compared to most heavy tanks. To put things into perspective, the political structure of the Inner Sphere was already pretty firmly established as far as the various great houses etc at that point, and extra-terrestrial colonization was old, old news.

You are a virtuoso historian, sir.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2014 03:37

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

On the current thread of discussion, 69 years ago today the 1st Belorussian front began shelling Berlin proper, signaling the start of the final push by the Red Army to take Berlin.

I'm hoping to get over that way later this year. There are still flak tower related sights to see, right?

# ¿ Apr 21, 2014 01:33

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

I'm reading Beevor's Fall of Berlin 1945 right now and the picture he paints of absolute dysfunction in Germany is pretty crazy. Also the incredible shittiness of getting captured/occupied/raped by the Red Armt.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2014 01:44

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Interesting article in the latest New Yorker(behind a paywall) about Chinese espionage, largely related to their aerospace industry. The guy who's the focus of the piece apparently turned over huge amounts of information about B-1 when he was working at Rockwell. This made me realize I know very little about Chinese aircraft. I mean, clearly there's some overlap with Soviet stuff, up to a point, but post split, it seems to me like they really took their time getting their own development and production off the ground. Based on wikipedia, it looks like their only bomber is their domestic Badger variant/knockoff.

Am I the only one who think that looks too long and too much like a toy?

Veritek83 fucked around with this message at 19:36 on May 4, 2014

# ¿ May 4, 2014 19:33

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

ArchangeI posted:

Everything that is not taken up by the machine gun ammo, the engines strong enough to crash through brick walls or the bulletproof armor. Or the electronics. I'm telling ya, they've got a dimensional pocket in there to cram all this stuff in.

Seriously, I thought this might be Michael Bay test driving CGI for the next Transformers move. The whole open nose missile launch thing was straight out of Hollywood big budget scifi.

# ¿ May 5, 2014 09:14

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Yeah, but who would survive Godzilla?

Apparently Air & Space interviewed a couple of airmen at Kadena about how to deal with a Godzilla attack. One guy gives joke answers. The other one takes the question relatively seriously. "And if he goes underwater, the Navy can deal with him"

# ¿ May 9, 2014 23:01

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Kemper Boyd posted:

One of the interesting Cold War relics in Finland is the system of free library copies (the system existed before 1945). Everything published in Finland is required to be filed into seven different libraries (one of which is the national library), to preserve cultural heritage. This includes stuff like magazines so all the libraries have a complete set of every porn mag ever published in Finland.

Most of that stuff is at least here in my city placed in huge underground vaults under the universities.

The US does (or perhaps did) something similar- the Federal Depository Library System. Every state capital city, DC plus a handful of territories. The collection list includes things like college yearbooks and STD info pamphlets.

# ¿ May 10, 2014 17:35

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

NosmoKing posted:

Isn't that subplot the one where Ryan ends up being "confirmed" the president because someone says the right "magic words" in a meeting?

Something like " you referred to him as President while on record, so now he IS President!! GOTCHA!!"

Yup. I think it's something like Ryan is referred to as the President in the lawsuit that challenges his legitimacy and the judge is all "I mean, your lawsuit is right, and he shouldn't be President, but you called him the President, so..."

# ¿ May 20, 2014 16:39

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

FrozenVent posted:

Is that the one where a Japanese naval formation does a saluting pass inside a US CVBG, launches torpedoes on two carriers and they basically go "Welp, computer error!" and the US Navy buys it? Or is that Debt of Honor?

That's Debt of Honor, I'm pretty sure. The Bear & The Dragon is PRC vs. US and Russia, in Siberia, with the US Fleet demolishing the PLAN. It ends with Tiananmen Sq. v. 2.0 overthrowing the Communists.

# ¿ May 20, 2014 17:54

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Question about JDAMs- I caught like 10 minutes of a Smithsonian channel program about the B2 today and they were talking about the bombing during the Kosovo War. They mentioned specifically that there were JDAM kits for both 1K lb. bombs and 500 lb. bombs. I hadn't really thought about it previously, but obviously there needs to be some adaptability with what the kits are attached to. Can someone talk a bit about whether or not there are separate kits for different types of ordinance? Or even just a big old JDAM effort post?

# ¿ Jun 8, 2014 05:53

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Anybody want to do rundown on Soviet/Russian anti-aircraft missiles, given the news coming out of Ukraine?

I figure there's a battery commander who's about to lose his job.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2014 17:29

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Sjurygg posted:

Which of course begs the question, who the gently caress taught a bunch of hicks how to conduct a very complex acquisition and firing sequence.

That's part of the argument though, right? That they're not so much separatists as they are Russian troops in track suits.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2014 18:16

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Apparently one of the Donetsk Republic guys put up a statement earlier today gloating about downing a Ukranian military flight that would correspond to the Malaysian flight going down. Quickly removed from Soviet Facebook. The same guy also apparently posted photos of BUKs earlier in the week.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2014 20:45

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Not exactly airpower, but adjacent perhaps- Apparently the Kurds are cobbling together some irregular armored vehicles to fight ISIS. The link has some video of a couple of them rolling around.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2014 07:18

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Godholio posted:

It's a big dollar pork project that makes it look like they take defense seriously...are you kidding? Bob Dole doesn't need Viagra anymore, he blows his load glancing at F-35 pictures.

Most legislators in either party are going to vote for procuring more of any given expensive plane/tank/boat, both as symbols of being strong on defense, but also because of the jobs/economic side. Being able to say "this vote for the F-35 program means XXX jobs that are staying right here in Bumfuck, USA" is a huge asset every other November. That's before you even start to look at the money- above-board campaign contributions or otherwise.

There's a vanishingly small number of elected officials on either side of the aisle who are both serious about defense reform and in a position to do something about it.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2014 05:09

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

iyaayas01 posted:

Ike Skelton is dead and Carl Levin is retiring...name someone else who is actually seriously interested in reform/national interest as opposed to some special interest group/pork when it comes to defense.

Right. Vanishingly small- I can't. I'm assuming that among 535 members there's got to be someone, but I'll be damned if I know who, as I don't work in Washington anymore.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2014 08:57

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Red Crown posted:

Still, keep your eye on a guy named Bob Work, who is our last, best hope for acquisition reform coming out of the Obama presidency. He's at the head of a small group of people who are starting to seriously look at changing what kinds of big-ticket items we buy and how we buy them.

I've read some stuff by him or by friends/colleagues of his. Interesting stuff.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2014 18:46

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Going to the Intrepid museum today. Any must-see recommendations there? I'll try and get (cell phone) pictures.

# ¿ Nov 24, 2014 17:14

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

edit: double post

# ¿ Nov 24, 2014 17:14

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Dead Reckoning posted:

Also, Australia is further away from China than the west coast of the United States, so they aren't super relevant.

Don't think this is remotely true.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2015 18:55

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Mortabis posted:

If you measure as the crow flies from Hainan to the mining regions of northwestern Australia, then no, it's not true. However the distance from China to the heavily populated parts of NSW and Victoria, where most Australians live, are indeed further, and doubly so if you're measuring the distance a ship sails since there are a bunch of islands in the way.

Sure, but even Hainan to Victoria is ~4000 KM less than Hainan to San Francisco.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2015 19:08

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Ok, just so we're all on the same page

This

quote:

Australia is further away from China than the west coast of the United States

is not a factual statement.

A statement like "many of the relevant areas of Australia are roughly the same distance from part of China as the west coast of the United States" is basically factual.

Once we start talking about actual force projection and a hypothetical conflict in the region, the Royal Australian Navy has to be taken into account as much as any other regional navy does and isn't irrelevant due to geography.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2015 19:21

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Cooked Auto posted:

The whole thing is honestly kinda odd yet interesting at the same time. It's very oddly cut and is kind of slow paced at times, not to mention it also feels somewhat scatterbrained for a while as well until you kinda get it.

Yup, that's Adam Curtis. Something of a distinctive style.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2015 21:13

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

That Works posted:

What is propelling that? Hydraulic press?

# ¿ May 5, 2015 23:55

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

http://defensetech.org/2015/06/11/three-russia-aircraft-crash-in-past-week-two-fleets-grounded/

A Tu-95, Mi-29 and Su-34 have all crashed in the last week.

A Russian military expert at the UK�s Royal United Services Institute posted:

�This could be an interesting sign of the overstretching of Russian armed capabilities, because the maintenance template for these vehicles does not take into account the much higher operational tempo they have been operating under lately,� he told the magazine.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2015 15:41

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Taking a really quick look at Mr. Axe's other writings on the F-35, I'm inclined to think that he's pretty wedded to the worst case scenario narrative for the F-35.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2015 02:25

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

I thought this bit at the end was a bit beyond anything one might see in mainstream discussion in the west.

quote:

While the Igla surface-to-air missile launcher was probably too heavy for very small children, smaller rocket-propelled grenade launchers were perfect for kids of all ages. Kryuchkov added: �All males of all ages are defenders of the motherland and they must be ready for war, whether war comes or not.�

# ¿ Jul 8, 2015 03:10

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

The author is well-known for arguing that the planet's climate is trending cooler rather than warmer. While I'm no scientist, I think maybe anything that guy has to say is pretty much garbage.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2016 22:10

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...the-super-bowl/

This is the 30 second spot Northrup Grumman bought during the game tomorrow. Some pretty sweet "6th Gen fighter concept" CGI, but strangely nothing about Congressmen getting VD from NG-supplied whores or massive amounts of paperwork being filed in protest by Boeing & LockMart. Maybe they're saving that spot for the Oscars.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2016 01:06

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

Just a note- NG did a spot last year that was pretty clearly pushing their LRS-B bid that honestly I thought was kinda sexy- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-vkdUBNOOc so while I think they're the first defense contractor to buy SB time, this is actually the second year they've done it.

Also, as someone who grew up in the DC area and still spends serious time on the metro- you can't ride the Yellow or Blue line in VA without seeing tons of advertising by defense contractors- the boards in the Pentagon, Pentagon City and Crystal City stations are pretty much exclusively defense/intel industry oriented.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2016 06:32

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

I think the question of what China does in the event of any sort of NK crisis is one of the big foreign policy questions and if anyone knows for sure, let DoD, State and the intelligence community know.

China's real investment is in the status quo on the peninsula. I'd be shocked if they didn't take some sort of action to avoid any actual escalation of tensions. They can't avoid a full scale collapse of the regime and the resultant refugee crisis and chaos on their doorstep.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 19:30

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

chitoryu12 posted:

Looking at past leaks of large scale, it seems to be anonymous whistleblowers who are upset at something going on in whatever company or agency they work for and deciding to just copy a bunch of poo poo and throw it at the media to see if it sticks. The newspaper S�ddeutsche Zeitung actually received the info over a year ago, and they turned to data indexing companies and the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists to help them parse the 2.6 TB of poo poo.

And the sense I get is that this is just the initial wave. There are (I assume) more pieces to follow on specific threads of this.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2016 20:06

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:08

Veritek83: Jul 7, 2008; The Irish can't drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I've known gets mean when he drinks.

We launched more Tomahawks against AQ(and/or Islamic Big Pharma) in Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998. Yes, this moron is criminally incompetent and corrupt, but until there's more happening this isn't WW3.

edit:

BIG HEADLINE posted:

They'll leave a few busted MiG-21s on the ground and pull a Port Stanley on the airbase to make it look like we absolutely loving decimated it so Spicer and Trump can hold up a degraded satellite shot making it look like Satan himself took a giant poo poo all over the airbase, and it'll be operational again within 48 hours.

Yeah, "war theater" is a good way to describe it thus far.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2017 03:18

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