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Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

rossmum posted:

I could've sworn Vulcan had more letters than that.

The V-bombers look like Go-Bots.

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Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Ygolonac posted:

"Hey Dave, what's the weight of that reactor? How many tons? Slamming and rolling and total loss of cooling systems and controls and uranium is kinda mass-y, is there any chance it could get slapped into a critical mass?"

"Well... lemme see here... <runs calculations> uhm. Go on to lunch without me, Frank, I'm not hungry anymore."

I don't believe this. The possible avenues this crash could take would be:
  • Massive radioactive release
  • Criticality and detonation

In regards to massive radioactive release, there is no doubt. Uranium is not very radioactive (as in, we handle new fuel with our nearly bare hands), but its fission products are. This hypothetical airborne reactor would have been running, and would have plenty of highly active byproducts to spread in a crash.

The risk of a detonation on the other hand is not there because the conditions required for creating an explosion of the kind we are familiar with from nuclear weapons is the result of painstaking engineering. Civilian nuclear reactors are perfectly capable of a meltdown with hundreds of times the critical mass required by their fuels. A nuclear fission [chain] reaction demands one key thing:

Each fission should give rise to at least one neutron that successfully causes another fission.

Depending on a lot of factors, each fission actually produces 2-3 neutrons regardless of whether you're busy satisfying or eliminating the electric demands of a city. Where did those 1-2 neutrons go? Well, they go a lot of places. A very large number are simply lost to the surroundings. That "critical mass" people talk about is just a thought experiment asking, "If we had this fissile material formed into the ideal shape, such that its neutrons reacted with itself as much as possible, and were lost to the environment as little as possible (i.e. a sphere), what would the mass be?" Geometry is terribly important, and very intentionally chosen.

Let's say that reactor slammed into the ground, going from stable seven-brides-for-seven-brothers fission to being a mangled pile of ex-fuel elements. I bet you there'd be plenty of little local spots where the conditions were just right so that more neutrons that necessary were produced, causing the reaction to go faster and faster.

It's not the end of the world.

Those bits would just get very hot and, for example, vaporize. The formerly critical spot would turn into a hot gas, its density plummet, and the neutrons produced by each individual fission would be subject to a drastically higher chance of never participating in a fission reaction. Less than one successful child fission per parent fission means subcriticality and the (at least temporary) end of the reaction.

Now, what makes those fission bombs so special that they destroy cities with less uranium than a few civilian fuel elements? Well, they have mechanisms in place to keep all that fissile material together so that it has a chance to react all at once. I'd like to compare it to how low explosives like gun powder need to be tightly wrapped in order to function as explosives, but that would be a lie. The proximity of the fuel to itself is controlling the reaction, and as soon as the reaction has forced the fuel apart (vaporization etc.) it's over, for now.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

iyaayas01 posted:

That whole :science: bit is awesome and is what this thread is all about. I would just add that the part I quoted above was what was driving a lot of uncertainty regarding the plutonium implosion design (what eventually became the standard for a fission weapon).

Weapons-grade plutonium (nearly isotopically pure Pu-239) has a lower critical mass, and reacts in a way which is more practical for causing a detonation, but the engineering (and science) is the same as uranium.

iyaayas01 posted:

covering the surrounding area with highly radioactive debris.

Not call you on this, but what were these incidents? What was "highly radioactive"?

Had a self-propagation reaction briefly been attained? Was there some sort of highly radioactive neutron source (Cm-252) embedded in the bomb? Or were they referring to the tritium?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
I love SAMs and you should start a new thread on them, mlmp08.

I vaguely remember a controversy about some the US's ABM tests being described as successful, despite using "illuminated" targets.

What was the story about these? Was this the THAAD?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

MA-Horus posted:

Interesting fact about Canada's go-fast bird.

The Iroquois Orenda engine, that was custom-built for the Arrow was flight-tested on a B-47 that was called the CL-52. It was mounted on the tail because that was the only place to put it, turning it into a real bitch to control.

Another problem was that the engine kept overspeeding the airframe. At 75% throttle. In a climb. It got to the point that when the US got the airframe back it was so stressed they scrapped it on the spot.

Those engines would have been MONSTERS, 30000lbs of thrust each.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
You in NE?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
That post made my day.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Sunday Punch posted:


Shattered remains of graphite fuel elements from destructive reactor test.

Sunday Punch, I should probably add that, as a nuclear engineer, just seeing this picture caused me to make a Professor Frink "narf" out loud.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
because canadians are so canadian its greek

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Sunday Punch posted:

Bonus image of a shuttle-like design with a hovercraft aircushion instead of standard landing gear :wtc:

The supposed advantage was wider distribution of stress on the runway when landing, higher landing speeds and rough terrain and water landing capability! That would have been quite something to see.

Who proposed this? Did it have a name?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Sunday Punch posted:

It was part of a design study from Bell carried out in 1970. Everything you could ever want to know about air cushion landing systems can be found in this PDF of the report.

Enjoy!
I am going to wake up, and find out you were just a dream.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Sunday Punch posted:

I'm putting together some stuff for a post I hope to get up some time in the next few days, here's a clue.



Is there a forums upgrade you've been needing?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Sunday Punch posted:

Here's some illustrations from a 70s Sikorsky design study for low radar cross section modifications for the Blackhawk. Obviously the idea of a stealthy Blackhawk has been around for a long time, but it would be pretty interesting if it turns out the crashed chopper is just such an aircraft. No details on the rotors (too bad), the main changes are a pointed nose and sloped fuselage sides:





Maybe the mystery helicopter looked something like this?

Or possibly this:

:catdrugs:

I apologize for having forgotten your Archives upgrade in return for the Dynasoar post.

Enjoy!

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

iyaayas01 posted:

Slo-Tek, those pictures were awesome, especially the engine test bed pre-BUFF. Regarding the Cutlass, it's amazing just how much the Westinghouse engine debacles of the '40s and '50s hosed US military aviation, specifically Naval Aviation.

Any more on the Westinghouse problems?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

iyaayas01 posted:

Sup



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjs3nBfyIwM

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

mikerock posted:

To be fair to the CF-104 most of the accidents on those planes were to the Luftwaffe using them inappropriately.

100% of CF-104 accidents were due to not buying enough Bomarcs.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
Video of a Syrian ZSU-23-4 firing at apartments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXg6vuUiShU

Is the radome removed/folded down, or do were there different options for it?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Throatwarbler posted:

"Cymbeline" mortar locating radar send by our good friends Britain, in use against dirty Vietnamese imperialists.



One (of the four delivered) was destroyed by Vietnamese infiltrators who somehow snuck through the perimiter wire. Who knew they were so good at this? :monocle:

Used by the PRC against Vietnam?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Propagandalf posted:



Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
Soapbox derby Draken:

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

brains posted:

this pic works well as a reminder that ch-53s are almost as long as a c-130. longer, if you count the rotor diameter in total length, and almost the same footprint. they're gigantic.

edit: the ch-53e is actually longer

Did someone say CH-53 and C-130?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO0sRWCf9k4

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
Oh, ye of little faith...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4CQfaBGWSo

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Propagandalf posted:

Fast acquisitions like A-12 and P-51 had the advantage of filling a massive gaping hole in military capability, which is much easier to back than a new tanker than doesn't do anything better than the old one except 'be new'.

"Be new" is a pretty nice feature when it comes to maintenance and spare parts.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

wkarma posted:

Here's some cold war history I'd never heard before.

It’s part of a secret, nuclear-powered U.S. Army base that was built under the Greenland ice cap only 800 miles from the North Pole. The base was officially built to conduct scientific research but the real reason was apparently to test out the feasibility of burying nuclear missiles below the ice under an effort known as Project Iceworm.




http://defensetech.org/2012/04/06/inside-the-armys-secret-cold-war-ice-base/



That core grid is hilarious (and only 55 cm deep), but you can apparently do a lot when your fuel's enriched to 93 %.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

BrainGlitch posted:

I want to hear all about this. I love me some NATO MBTs.

In everything but name!

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Phanatic posted:

It would be trivial for Japan to produce a nuclear weapon were it to decide it wanted one. It's got plenty of plutonium from reprocessing spent fuel, and while it does use it for creating MOX fuel, it could easily stop doing so and instead use it for bombs. Also, they make their own uranium fuel in the first place, they have their own enrichment facilities, and if they really felt like it they could produce HEU for a bomb.

This is absolutely false.

Plutonium from reprocessing light-water reactor fuel (Japan's reactors) is far too isotopically impure (Pu-241 develops over time and causes premature criticality) to be used in weapons. Reprocessing specially burned uranium-238 targets in reactors that can be fueled online is the way to make plutonium.

Japan on the other hand has tons of uranium enrichment capacity, so why would it need plutonium?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Cyrano4747 posted:

Sweden: willing to fight to the last Finn :v:

You're getting quoted.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Phanatic posted:

The issue's not Pu241, it's Pu240, which undergoes spontaneous fission and releases neutrons, which means predetonation if you try to build a light gun-type weapon out of plutonium.

Absolutely correct--typo. We call it "double capture."

Phanatic posted:

The reaction that turns U238 into Pu239 at Hanford is exactly the same as the reaction that turns U238 into Pu239 in a civilian power plant. The difference is that the U238 targets in a reactor specifically intended for that transmutation are irradiated for a shorter period of time, so not as much of the Pu240 side-product accumulates. It would not be *efficient* for the Japanese to modify the fuel cycle of a PWR or BWR so that they're inserting new fuel elements and removing old ones each month, but it could produce plutonium with sufficiently low amounts of Pu241 to be used in a bomb.

This goes beyond not efficient. The fuel cycles would be much shorter--on the order of days--and would constitute a naked ambition to develop nuclear weapons. In which case, it would be much easier to go develop centrifuges, gas diffusion facilities, or South African uranium whistles just as publicly.

I could grind coffee with my Volvo's back wheels, but it would be insanely impractical, my neighbors would complain, and everybody would wonder why I didn't just get a Braun.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Stroh M.D. posted:

Nah, Barsebäck took care of the Danes for us. "With Plutonium we bring the Danes to their knees" :smug:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlTukY9fV9Y

Now that the plants are closed, however, maybe its time to bring the bunkers back again? :tinfoil:

The plant does guided tours, and they're totally worth it if you happen to be in Lund or Malmö. The place has been decontaminated to the point where you don't even need to suit up anymore to go over to the plant side.

Groda fucked around with this message at 15:55 on May 19, 2012

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
Why do people always write the B-1's designation like that?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
They taste just like hot dogs. :-/

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Nebakenezzer posted:

Russia's Missile Forces have Sledgehammers for opening malfunctioning launch code safes.

People used to worry about Russia's nuclear arsenal being secure. Well, evidently we were worrying about the wrong nation:

British nukes were protected by bike locks

:stare:

Meanwhile, in Britain...

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Slamburger posted:

This sounds like a Laurel and Hardy sketch.

Abbott and Costello?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

Nebakenezzer posted:

In Soyuz space capsules, there are two switches next to each other. Once does a task that is routine that you have to do frequently (like stir the oxygen tanks or something); the other fires the parachutes, which if you fire before the right time, will cause you to die. Both switches are unlabeled.

citation needed

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

movax posted:

I thought I read somewhere that they had to purposefully poison/denature fluids in the aircraft (de-icing I think) because conscripts kept drinking it to get wasted.

Conscripts own. (especially the Red Alert 2/3-kind) It's a mixture of :3: and :gonk:

Why wouldn't you use denatured alcohol for such purposes?

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

The Proc posted:

Here's a detailed government report on the aftermath: http://www.ornl.gov/info/reports/1961/3445600598663.pdf

Hahaha, I'm printing this out and putting it on the break room table at my plant.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf

mlmp08 posted:

Unpublished was the report "effects of horrible poisons on lower-caste peoples"
That's pretty much this one, too.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
From a pure graphic design standpoint, I love it.

Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf
The rotor is used to land, by opposing the repulsion of the ground.

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Groda
Mar 17, 2005

Hair Elf







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