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unixbeard
Dec 28, 2004



A lack of interviews means you should work on your networking skills more, join a .NET user group go to meetings and post about the stuff you do on their mailing list, stuff like that. C++ is fine really, in my view it is become a bit of a niche language because it is rare new systems are developed in C++ (except for some speciality fields), however there is a lot of C++ stuff out there, niches can be lucrative and I can't really see a C++ programmer going hungry any time soon.

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Superhaus
Jun 9, 2003

I'm probably wasting time right now.

I asked this in another thread and it was suggested that I come here.

I graduated with a CS degree 6 years ago and I have been doing user support ever since. I have not programmed a thing since college. Things are looking bleak at work, and I really want to get back into programming anyway, so I would really like to scrape the rust off, but I am not sure where to start. As bad as it sounds (I know, do it because you love it...) I want to start where I can make the quickest transition out of user support and into something else.

The only languages that I studies in school were C and C++. I have heard good things about Java marketability, and I am interested in mobile app development, so those are a couple of places that I was thinking about starting. Am I better off getting a book to pick up the fundamentals? Are there good iTunes U courses out there that I can download and follow?

I would love a kick in the right direction.

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007
Don't take advice from me, because I'm an idiot.

Superhaus posted:

I graduated with a CS degree 6 years ago and I have been doing user support ever since. I have not programmed a thing since college.

The only languages that I studies in school were C and C++. I have heard good things about Java marketability, and I am interested in mobile app development, so those are a couple of places that I was thinking about starting. Am I better off getting a book to pick up the fundamentals? Are there good iTunes U courses out there that I can download and follow?

Why did you wait 6 years in support after graduation? You need a good answer because literally every interviewer is going to ask you that.

Most programmers are hired on the basis that they have demonstrable skills which have been kept up with. Mobile developer roles in particular demand a considerable technical skillset to get hired in a company (though contributing to projects for free is quite attainable).

Starting with undergrad academic knowledge from 6 years ago of C and C++... start throwing your resume out to every junior programming role you can find, or try to move into a senior operations/support role with scripting and work on your skills there.

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Here I post;
I can do no other.


I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that the words "science" and "engineering" have multiple meanings. This is pretty important!

The word "science" has more than one definition, only one of which is "the gathering of empirical observations and applying certain methods of reasoning to them" (my own wording). Indeed, a more general definition of this is simply systematic knowledge of any kind. Thus computer science could be defined as "the systematic study of computing". See also: political science, library science, etc.

The word "engineering", similarly, isn't solely restricted to describing the systematic building of physical objects based on the principles of physics. For example, what do you call a person who operates a train?

Superhaus posted:

I graduated with a CS degree 6 years ago and I have been doing user support ever since. I have not programmed a thing since college. Things are looking bleak at work, and I really want to get back into programming anyway, so I would really like to scrape the rust off, [...]

[...] I have heard good things about Java marketability, and I am interested in mobile app development, so those are a couple of places that I was thinking about starting. Am I better off getting a book to pick up the fundamentals? Are there good iTunes U courses out there that I can download and follow?

I'm in a similar position. I graduated in Dec. of '09 and have been working in an unrelated field since then. I started by thinking of a simple Android app I could develop (an hours/expense tracker for work), which is helping me brush up on my Java skills and (when finished) will give me something I can say "hey look, I shipped this thing". I'm not sure if this is the optimal thing to be doing, but hey, it's something.

As for whether to buy books, well, it's up to you. If you work better learning from books, buy some; if you work better just reading online API docs, do that.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

Fix this shit pokeyman!


Lutha Mahtin posted:

For example, what do you call a person who operates a train?

I give up. A train programmer?

Rello
Jan 19, 2010


pokeyman posted:

I give up. A train programmer?

A Train Scientist?

Mobius
Sep 26, 2000


pokeyman posted:

I give up. A train programmer?

C'mon, man, it's obviously trainer. Duh.

ninjeff
Jan 19, 2004



Mobius posted:

C'mon, man, it's obviously trainer. Duh.

Senior Train Architect

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008



ninjeff posted:

Senior Train Architect

Locomotion Designs Consultant

unixbeard
Dec 28, 2004



Managing Director, Professional Train Services

TasteMyHouse
Dec 21, 2006


Linked Locomotion Coordinator.

Smugdog Millionaire
Sep 14, 2002

8) Blame Icefrog


Director of Train Operations

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Junior Train Director reporting to the Executive VP of Train Engineering and Operations

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Родина слышит


Cisco Certified Train Associate.

rjmccall
Sep 7, 2007

Its own concenter'd recompense

Valued Member of the Train Team

ninjeff
Jan 19, 2004



train janitor

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008



ninjeff posted:

train janitor

You're not even trying anymore.

iam
Aug 5, 2011


Trevor Train, Trainee Train Trainer

AMIDOINGITRITE?

iam fucked around with this message at Aug 27, 2011 around 12:19

little munchkin
Aug 15, 2010


Logistics Implementation Systems Manager

Safe and Secure!
Jun 14, 2008

OFFICIAL SA THREAD RUINER
SPRING 2013


Rail Analyst.

fake edit:

real edit:

Never mind. Since it hasn't been used, my project is "make it work".

Safe and Secure! fucked around with this message at Aug 30, 2011 around 00:04

Bag of Carpets
Dec 20, 2010


I've begun to apply for various web application developer jobs, most using PHP for development. I've been freaking myself out a little bit reading things like Five Essential Phone Screen Questions and this thread for the concepts I should be learning. (Big-O, algorithms, data structures, design patterns etc.) I do not have a CS degree, but have developed a good amount of code myself, so if an interview has the basis of "Prove to me you can code something" I should be fine but I worry about CS conceptual knowledge.

Could someone whose currently working at a web shop tell me what their interview experience was like or maybe some things I really should brush up on? Thanks again, this thread is great.

Ithaqua
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.

Bag of Carpets posted:

I've begun to apply for various web application developer jobs, most using PHP for development. I've been freaking myself out a little bit reading things like Five Essential Phone Screen Questions and this thread for the concepts I should be learning. (Big-O, algorithms, data structures, design patterns etc.) I do not have a CS degree, but have developed a good amount of code myself, so if an interview has the basis of "Prove to me you can code something" I should be fine but I worry about CS conceptual knowledge.

Could someone whose currently working at a web shop tell me what their interview experience was like or maybe some things I really should brush up on? Thanks again, this thread is great.

That "5 essential phone screen questions" is a bit on the harsh side, honestly. Knowing computer science fundamentals doesn't hurt, but it hasn't come up in any job interview I've been on in the past 5 years.

Eggnogium
Jun 1, 2010

Never give an inch! Hnnnghhhhhh!

Asking a candidate to write-syntactically correct code with formatted output and file I/O and then read it back to you over the phone has to be the dumbest idea I've ever heard.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


I stopped reading that article as soon as I got to that line. It's insane.

Eggnogium
Jun 1, 2010

Never give an inch! Hnnnghhhhhh!

Even funnier because the gist of the scripting section is "Why would you do this in a needlessly inefficient way when there are already tools to ease the process?"

Uh...

Ithaqua
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.

Eggnogium posted:

Even funnier because the gist of the scripting section is "Why would you do this in a needlessly inefficient way when there are already tools to ease the process?"

Uh...

He also predicts which candidates will be inferior based on their preference of text editor.

Eggnogium
Jun 1, 2010

Never give an inch! Hnnnghhhhhh!

Ithaqua posted:

He also predicts which candidates will be inferior based on their preference of text editor.

Haha, yeah, just got to that part.

"Little nublet never heard of VIM??? "

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Honestly I was a bit surprised at the lack of "M$? We use Unix"

TasteMyHouse
Dec 21, 2006


such hate for Vi is really bizarre. I've never seen that before. Vi is a perfectly cromulent editor.

Orzo
Sep 3, 2004

IT! IT is confusing! Say your goddamn pronouns!


That guy is a goon if I recall correctly.

it is
Aug 19, 2011


Yesterday, I applied for an internship at a company I hadn't heard of, but whose products I've seen (in other words, I'm pretty sure they're not a fake company or anything). Within 5 hours, I got an email saying that they wanted to set up a phone interview, so I'm interviewing tomorrow, less than 48 hours they received my resume. I'm in a large, tech-industry-heavy city with a school with a top CS program, so they shouldn't be having any issues finding qualified candidates. Should this be raising any red flags? Like, should I be reading this as "they love me and really want to make sure I'm not too good to be true" or should I be reading this as "they've scared away so many applicants that they respond really really quickly to everyone?"

pr0metheus
Dec 5, 2010


it is posted:

Yesterday, I applied for an internship at a company I hadn't heard of, but whose products I've seen (in other words, I'm pretty sure they're not a fake company or anything). Within 5 hours, I got an email saying that they wanted to set up a phone interview, so I'm interviewing tomorrow, less than 48 hours they received my resume. I'm in a large, tech-industry-heavy city with a school with a top CS program, so they shouldn't be having any issues finding qualified candidates. Should this be raising any red flags? Like, should I be reading this as "they love me and really want to make sure I'm not too good to be true" or should I be reading this as "they've scared away so many applicants that they respond really really quickly to everyone?"


Why don't you just go to the interview and ask them a lot of questions about what they do and how they do it.

Orzo
Sep 3, 2004

IT! IT is confusing! Say your goddamn pronouns!


it is posted:

Yesterday, I applied for an internship at a company I hadn't heard of, but whose products I've seen (in other words, I'm pretty sure they're not a fake company or anything). Within 5 hours, I got an email saying that they wanted to set up a phone interview, so I'm interviewing tomorrow, less than 48 hours they received my resume. I'm in a large, tech-industry-heavy city with a school with a top CS program, so they shouldn't be having any issues finding qualified candidates. Should this be raising any red flags? Like, should I be reading this as "they love me and really want to make sure I'm not too good to be true" or should I be reading this as "they've scared away so many applicants that they respond really really quickly to everyone?"
Resumes don't really take more than a couple minutes to read, you're thinking way too much into it. It isn't a red flag at all, maybe you just hit a lucky time where some dude needed a break from his work and decided to look at some resumes.

qntm
Jun 17, 2009


pr0metheus posted:

Why don't you just go to the interview and ask them a lot of questions about what they do and how they do it.

This is the correct answer. Interviews go both ways.

dazjw
May 12, 2001

Courage Reactor

Orzo posted:

That guy is a goon if I recall correctly.

Former CoC-superstar flowenol. I don't think he's banned but he doesn't post so much.

And you guys are being uncharitable, I think it's a decent article. Though keep in mind he's talking about hiring for Amazon/Google, not run-of-the-mill web shop #24601.

Steve Yegge/flowenol posted:

what I'm looking for here is a total vacuum in one of these areas. It's OK if they struggle a little and then figure it out. It's OK if they need some minor hints or prompting. I don't mind if they're rusty or slow. What you're looking for is candidates who are utterly clueless, or horribly confused, about the area in question.

And the text editor thing is because someone who claims to use vi in 2011 but hasn't heard of vim is either lying or stupid. Come on now.

TasteMyHouse
Dec 21, 2006


dazjw posted:

And the text editor thing is because someone who claims to use vi in 2011 but hasn't heard of vim is either lying or stupid. Come on now.

The hypothetical interviewee doesn't claim to have never heard of Vim, they just choose not to use it. This makes sense to me, because vi is standard on all Unix-y systems, whereas sometimes Vim needs to be separately installed. If vi works for you, why go through the trouble?

dazjw
May 12, 2001

Courage Reactor

TasteMyHouse posted:

The hypothetical interviewee doesn't claim to have never heard of Vim, they just choose not to use it. This makes sense to me, because vi is standard on all Unix-y systems, whereas sometimes Vim needs to be separately installed. If vi works for you, why go through the trouble?

Interviewing for programmers, not CJs.

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009



This is pretty targeted at CS students, but does anyone have advice for someone trying to pass from IT to programming? I'm good with T-SQL and I've been gamely working my way through books and tutorials on C and Python, but should I even be bothering with the more theoretical stuff?

TasteMyHouse
Dec 21, 2006


If you don't know Big O, and at least have an inkling of how different common algorithms and data structures work, you're going to end up in the coding horrors thread.

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kes
Jan 4, 2006


dazjw posted:

Interviewing for programmers, not CJs.

or maybe they haven't spent enough time programming in a terminal to care one way or another? you can write code for unix with visual studio (and even compile it within the ide!), so i don't see any reason why you'd demand familiarity with a unix editor.

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