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evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

w00tuberjedi posted:

Just got a job programming. No degree, no experience, current CS student. It's all about who you know unfortunately.

If you're referring to nepotism or like platitudes instead of meaningful statements, then yes. Otherwise interviewing and networking are skills like anything else.

Of course, with no degree and no experience, it's hard to do any networking beyond user's groups.

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sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)

w00tuberjedi posted:

Just got a job programming. No degree, no experience, current CS student. It's all about who you know unfortunately.

I know a couple of people that got a job programming straight out of high school that didn't really "know" anybody in a way that was relevant to the job. And several more that got internships the same way when in college. And some more in their first job out of college. So no, it's not about who you know.

americong
May 29, 2013


I went through an informal screening process for a place, and now they want professional references.

I haven't had an actual job since I was in high school, and my supervisor for that is long, long gone from the school.

Moreover, I don't have any professor friends.

What on earth should I give them

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008

americong posted:

I went through an informal screening process for a place, and now they want professional references.

I haven't had an actual job since I was in high school, and my supervisor for that is long, long gone from the school.

Moreover, I don't have any professor friends.

What on earth should I give them

are they just asking for references, or are they asking for references before they continue the process?

if its the former, just ignore it.

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA
May 29, 2008

americong posted:

I went through an informal screening process for a place, and now they want professional references.

I haven't had an actual job since I was in high school, and my supervisor for that is long, long gone from the school.

Moreover, I don't have any professor friends.

What on earth should I give them

Do you have anyone you've done project work with? Anyone that works on open source stuff with you? Any clients you've freelanced for?

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

sarehu posted:

I know a couple of people that got a job programming straight out of high school that didn't really "know" anybody in a way that was relevant to the job. And several more that got internships the same way when in college. And some more in their first job out of college. So no, it's not about who you know.

"Who you know" is how you bypass a lot of tier-1 automatic screening and HR bullshit to get your name to people who actually know something. It's not all about who you know, it just helps.

No Safe Word
Feb 26, 2005

Also, you can help yourself get a job via networking (or if you dare, nepotism), but if you're unfit for the job it won't likely help you keep it except in the dumbest of circumstances.

Tunga
May 7, 2004

Grimey Drawer

No Safe Word posted:

Also, you can help yourself get a job via networking (or if you dare, nepotism), but if you're unfit for the job it won't likely help you keep it except in the dumbest of circumstances.
Depends on the country. In most of Europe it's pretty much impossible to fire people if they are incompetent (but not negligent) without going through months of due process and you pretty much have to just "encourage" them leave and hope they get the idea. However, this is still better than the alternative where companies can fire anyone whenever they like.

I've seen terrible people end up working at places for years because everyone knew they were bad but it was easier to just try to help them improve a bit and hope it figures itself out. It doesn't, but nobody wants to be the one to start the six-month process of warnings, etc. required to get rid of them.

sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)

Che Delilas posted:

"Who you know" is how you bypass a lot of tier-1 automatic screening and HR bullshit to get your name to people who actually know something. It's not all about who you know, it just helps.

Yeah, knowing people is helpful. My point is that going all "Woe is me, it's all about who you know" is just wrong and bullshit and a bad way to deflect responsibility from oneself.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

sarehu posted:

Yeah, knowing people is helpful. My point is that going all "Woe is me, it's all about who you know" is just wrong and bullshit and a bad way to deflect responsibility from oneself.

I was agreeing with you.

sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)

Che Delilas posted:

I was agreeing with you.

I agree that you were agreeing with me and I was agreeing with you.

sailboat
Dec 19, 2005
Seeker.
Is this the appropriate place to post a resume? I need some brutally honest feedback.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED

sarehu posted:

I agree that you were agreeing with me and I was agreeing with you.

I disagree.

sailboat posted:

Is this the appropriate place to post a resume? I need some brutally honest feedback.

:justpost:

Truman Peyote
Oct 11, 2006



I got a response from a company that I find very appealing for a Junior C# / C++ Programmer position. I did a phone interview that I felt I nailed, and got a call back saying they wanted to proceed in about an hour. They then gave me a technical assignment (a 48 hour programming thing to check my object-oriented design and unit testing skills); they called me back to say they wanted to proceed that same afternoon. The interview is on Friday, and I'm very excited.

Does anyone have any advice on what I should be doing to prepare? I have a copy of the book Cracking the Coding Interview and have been doing problems from it on pen and paper, and I'm also going to bone up on the C# and C++ aspects that I felt I was weakest on in the phone interview. If anyone has any other advice, or knows of any sources other than Cracking the Coding Interview for technical or algorithm questions that I could have someone surprise me with in a mock interview, I'd appreciate it.

I've never had a programming job before so this is all a new experience for me, and I want to know if I'm missing anything glaring.

Forgall
Oct 16, 2012

by Azathoth

Makeout Patrol posted:

Does anyone have any advice on what I should be doing to prepare? I have a copy of the book Cracking the Coding Interview and have been doing problems from it on pen and paper, and I'm also going to bone up on the C# and C++ aspects that I felt I was weakest on in the phone interview. If anyone has any other advice, or knows of any sources other than Cracking the Coding Interview for technical or algorithm questions that I could have someone surprise me with in a mock interview, I'd appreciate it.

There's also Elements of Programming Interviews. Can't vouch for it myself since I haven't gotten to it yet, but you can download "light" version from their website.

YanniRotten
Apr 3, 2010

We're so pretty,
oh so pretty
A series of onsite interviews that went from 1PM to after 6PM, with four one-on-one technical interviews with engineers is definitely not an easy day off. I think I did fine, although they definitely did not pull punches or tailor it to my background - asking a person with no CS degree how to find the shortest path between two nodes on a graph is pretty tough. Although I did luck out with that one since someone mentioned a similar problem on Glassdoor, so I went in basically knowing Dijkstra's algorithm.

I'd definitely rather be somewhere where everyone has made it through a tough interview process instead of having essentially no technical element to the screening process (e.g. my current company). Hopefully it works out - I didn't do consistently terrible or consistently awesome throughout, but there was a good mix between problems that I solved quickly and ones that I needed more time and help on. Got in some good whiteboarding practice and got to see a really cool downtown office, so overall not a bad time.

YanniRotten
Apr 3, 2010

We're so pretty,
oh so pretty

sailboat posted:

Is this the appropriate place to post a resume? I need some brutally honest feedback.

Yes, but if you want to post proprietary code in a way that identifies who you are and thereby tank your career, that goes in the Coding Horrors thread, apparently.

Steely Glint
Oct 29, 2011

Dinosaur Gum
I accepted an internship offer from Google yesterday! I'm surprised but also super excited. Is it rude to keep interviewing with other companies now? I'd like the interviewing experience, seeing as I've only ever had one interview. On the other hand I feel like it'd be rude for a company to interview me for a job they'd already filled? Either way I'm still looking for spring positions, so I'll get more opportunities regardless.

sailboat posted:

Is this the appropriate place to post a resume? I need some brutally honest feedback.

Just anonymize it before you post. Or don't, if you like getting mysterious packages in the mail.

sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)

Steely Glint posted:

Is it rude to keep interviewing with other companies now?

It's immoral.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.

sarehu posted:

It's immoral.

The companies do it the other way around.

There's no morality between faceless corporations and you.

sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)
Um, yes there is. Just because you find it convenient to ignore that doesn't make it untrue.

EAT THE EGGS RICOLA
May 29, 2008

Is there any chance in the whole entire world that you would accept another offer if it was amazing? If so, interview away!

sailboat
Dec 19, 2005
Seeker.
Have at it.

https://pdf.yt/d/TuJIXBLtRQvv5Imf

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

Steely Glint posted:

I accepted an internship offer from Google yesterday! I'm surprised but also super excited. Is it rude to keep interviewing with other companies now? I'd like the interviewing experience, seeing as I've only ever had one interview. On the other hand I feel like it'd be rude for a company to interview me for a job they'd already filled? Either way I'm still looking for spring positions, so I'll get more opportunities regardless.

It can be a lovely thing to do if they spend a lot of effort in interviewing you just for you to turn them down. But as long as you don't tell them, they'll never know. You can always say "thank you for the offer but I've decided to decline because _________" and fill in any bullshit reason you can think of that sounds even remotely reasonable.

or you can just never respond to them once they send you the offer letter. That is actually really lovely, though. Don't do that.

The March Hare
Oct 15, 2006

Je rêve d'un
Wayne's World 3
Buglord
Just got an email from Amazon.com consumer division. Anyone have advice/cautionary tales? Email said they'd be hiring for Seattle and SF and obviously they cover relocation.

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008

The March Hare posted:

Just got an email from Amazon.com consumer division. Anyone have advice/cautionary tales? Email said they'd be hiring for Seattle and SF and obviously they cover relocation.

were they more specific than that? there is afaik i know no division defined as "consumer", and i think if there were it would encompass way too many parts to be able to help you out :(.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.

sarehu posted:

Um, yes there is. Just because you find it convenient to ignore that doesn't make it untrue.

You are free to break an acceptance as per the terms of the contract set forth.

There's no morals here, a company has the right to break the contract as well.

down with slavery
Dec 23, 2013
STOP QUOTING MY POSTS SO PEOPLE THAT AREN'T IDIOTS DON'T HAVE TO READ MY FUCKING TERRIBLE OPINIONS THANKS

sarehu posted:

It's immoral.

lol

The March Hare
Oct 15, 2006

Je rêve d'un
Wayne's World 3
Buglord

FamDav posted:

were they more specific than that? there is afaik i know no division defined as "consumer", and i think if there were it would encompass way too many parts to be able to help you out :(.

Not yet, but I can post as I get more info I guess. Recruiter just made it sound like it she did recruiting for jobs working on the bits that touch Amazon.com rather than aws or anything else they do.

E; looks like it's for jobs from this page, of which there are many. http://www.amazon.jobs/team/consumer-website

The March Hare fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Nov 27, 2014

Mniot
May 22, 2003
Not the one you know

Malcolm XML posted:

You are free to break an acceptance as per the terms of the contract set forth.

There's no morals here, a company has the right to break the contract as well.

But if you have zero intention of accepting an offer and just want some free interview practice, then it's lovely to waste the time of the people interviewing you. It's fine to flip off the corporate machine, but you should have empathy for other humans.

down with slavery
Dec 23, 2013
STOP QUOTING MY POSTS SO PEOPLE THAT AREN'T IDIOTS DON'T HAVE TO READ MY FUCKING TERRIBLE OPINIONS THANKS

Mniot posted:

But if you have zero intention of accepting an offer and just want some free interview practice, then it's lovely to waste the time of the people interviewing you. It's fine to flip off the corporate machine, but you should have empathy for other humans.

It's not a waste of time, practice for them too. And hell, maybe they'll beat Google's offer

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.

Mniot posted:

But if you have zero intention of accepting an offer and just want some free interview practice, then it's lovely to waste the time of the people interviewing you. It's fine to flip off the corporate machine, but you should have empathy for other humans.

They are paid to do it.

They have a dozen other candidates to sift through.

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008

The March Hare posted:

Not yet, but I can post as I get more info I guess. Recruiter just made it sound like it she did recruiting for jobs working on the bits that touch Amazon.com rather than aws or anything else they do.

yeah, as much as I'd love to give you some more insight, amazon.com is thousands of devs doing stuff from building things for individual products (like smile.amazon.com or instant video) to platforms (search pages) to backend services (aggregators for product data or box fitting) to business analytics (this might not fall under consumer though?) to other stuff i'm forgetting.

mune
Sep 23, 2006
So I'm looking at possibly doing the UWG online CS master's next year (obviously it's not a for sure thing, but this is my tentative plan). I have gone through CodeAcademy on Python and JS but was planning on enrolling in a local community college to knock out some CS basics or maybe some higher-level math. Is this a good plan? I'm trying to do stuff here in a timely manner as I'm 28 and don't want to be 34 by the time I get a decent job.

If it is a good/decent plan, what would you guys recommend I take? I was a humanities/foreign language major for my bachelor's so I don't have a hard science background.

I looked around and couldn't find a better thread to post this message in. Please direct me if there's another, better thread to use.

sarehu
Apr 20, 2007

(call/cc call/cc)

Malcolm XML posted:

They are paid to do it.

Their shareholders are paying them.

I guess large groups of investors, pension holders, and the like aren't really people to you, just like the way Nazis thought about the Jews.

Mniot
May 22, 2003
Not the one you know

Malcolm XML posted:

They are paid to do it.

They have a dozen other candidates to sift through.

When you go to a public bathroom do you just poo poo on the floor? I mean, the janitors are being paid and they were going to clean the place anyway...

If you're talking to HR people, managers, or anyone else who's filtering recruiter-spam then I agree that you're not going to make much impact in their day one way or another. But I'm talking about on-site interviews with engineers after you've gotten and accepted a job offer that you're happy with. (If you take a not-so-good offer out of desperation and want to keep looking, that's totally different.)

I get paid as long as I don't quit or get fired. But I'm a lot happier when my time is not being wasted, and I think it's worth considering other people's feelings unless you yourself like being treated like an automaton.

down with slavery
Dec 23, 2013
STOP QUOTING MY POSTS SO PEOPLE THAT AREN'T IDIOTS DON'T HAVE TO READ MY FUCKING TERRIBLE OPINIONS THANKS

sarehu posted:

I guess large groups of investors, pension holders, and the like aren't really people to you, just like the way Nazis thought about the Jews.

:godwinning:

Mniot posted:

I get paid as long as I don't quit or get fired. But I'm a lot happier when my time is not being wasted, and I think it's worth considering other people's feelings unless you yourself like being treated like an automaton.

Going to an interview when you already have a job isn't treating people "like an automaton" you idiot goon

Tunga
May 7, 2004

Grimey Drawer

Mniot posted:

I get paid as long as I don't quit or get fired. But I'm a lot happier when my time is not being wasted, and I think it's worth considering other people's feelings unless you yourself like being treated like an automaton.
It's not like the candidate is going to stand up at the end and yell "tricked you, I already have a job". They just go through the process and then politely decline the offer because "I got a better one" and nobody is ever any the wiser or feels bad about it or whatever.

I personally wouldn't bother doing it because more interviews that you need to do seems like :effort: to me but I can imagine a situation where it it could be useful.

astr0man
Feb 21, 2007

hollyeo deuroga
I think its ok to receive an offer but keep interviewing elsewhere before you accept it, but it is kind of lovely to accept/sign the offer and then continue interviewing.

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down with slavery
Dec 23, 2013
STOP QUOTING MY POSTS SO PEOPLE THAT AREN'T IDIOTS DON'T HAVE TO READ MY FUCKING TERRIBLE OPINIONS THANKS

astr0man posted:

I think its ok to receive an offer but keep interviewing elsewhere before you accept it, but it is kind of lovely to accept/sign the offer and then continue interviewing.

Is it rude to interview for a job when you already have one? Why?

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