Newbie Programming Interviews/Get a Job Megathread: Fake it 'til you make it

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it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

Yesterday, I applied for an internship at a company I hadn't heard of, but whose products I've seen (in other words, I'm pretty sure they're not a fake company or anything). Within 5 hours, I got an email saying that they wanted to set up a phone interview, so I'm interviewing tomorrow, less than 48 hours they received my resume. I'm in a large, tech-industry-heavy city with a school with a top CS program, so they shouldn't be having any issues finding qualified candidates. Should this be raising any red flags? Like, should I be reading this as "they love me and really want to make sure I'm not too good to be true" or should I be reading this as "they've scared away so many applicants that they respond really really quickly to everyone?"

# ¿ Sep 9, 2011 05:39

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 14:24

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

I'm in school right now and I don't list my GPA on my resume. I've gotten offers for internships from basically every company I've applied for, and I'm applying to big names with high standards. I've had one company ask, and that company always cares about GPA, even for internal transfers by employees who've been with them for a long time.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2011 04:52

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

Last semester, I got 2 offers. I put in my 2 weeks for the one I'm working now. Is there a protocol for seeing if the one I turned down has room for me?

# ¿ Jan 10, 2012 20:19

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

gotly posted:

Weird question, and probably pretty straightforward, but how does one get into testing? I've been doing Dev/PM for a while and thought I'd try my hand at testing but I'm not sure where to start in a measurable way that would make me more qualified for industry testing jobs.

Would I do this the same way as any other skill? Just grab an open source project and start trying to break it and submit bug reports?

What you're talking about is something non-technical people can do, unless you're also gonna write unit tests around the conditions that failed.

I will say, though, that my SQA job was terrible. I don't know whether it was the functions of the job or the company itself, but it was my most joyless experience writing code of any sort.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2012 18:27

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~scottm/cs307/TestsStudyMaterial.htm

Work all this guy's old tests in whatever language it is you'll be using. They're really similar to programming interview questions.

Edit: And I'm willing to bet that most classes with similar titles also have really similar tests that are also super-helpful.

it is fucked around with this message at 03:35 on May 8, 2012

# ¿ May 8, 2012 03:28

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

It seems like companies you would want to work for don't actually care about GPA's. The only company that I cared about that asked about my GPA was IBM.

Also, if they ask about your GPA, an answer I've given that's worked out really well is basically that I've seen no correlation between my grade in a course and how much I learned in a course, and the only difference between the classes I've made C's in and the classes I've made A's in is that I spent more time chasing around each individual point. And also that a only a very precious few employers ask about it once you've had an internship.

The dad of one of my friends apparently said that he should list his GPA no matter what, even though it was like a 2.6. He got no callbacks at the career fair. If they're gonna find out your GPA sucks, it's better to do that after you've had time to impress them in an interview rather than as the first line of your resume.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2012 17:39

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

After losing one job, I took an internship pretty quickly. I think I'm being pretty grossly underpaid and I haven't stopped looking for work. Is that bad? Am I gonna have to explain myself in interviews, and is "I'm being paid $X an hour, where X is pretty much the bare minimum for what people pay interns around here despite the fact that I have a year of work experience including a full-time job" a valid explanation for why I'm already looking to leave?

# ¿ Aug 13, 2012 08:04

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

I'm still a student and the people at the internship think I'm working through the school year with an eye towards working for them full-time upon graduation. Also, I started a very short time ago.

I've never been asked about salary, but I would be giving that as the answer to the "why are you looking to leave your current job" question rather than the "what are you making" question (which doesn't exist) because my wage is too low for someone with my experience. Also the company doesn't pay its full-timers very well. And it removes that problem where you only find out what a position pays on the offer letter.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2012 16:27

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

Q: is it bad to job interview from the m4m section on craigslist?

# ¿ Aug 27, 2012 21:06

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

I've met people from DDR. I go on Wednesdays with a group of friends when it's half-price and talk with the crowd that gathers.

# ¿ Aug 31, 2012 20:57

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

SPEAKING OF RECRUITERS

One just asked me what I currently make at my internship. What do I answer? Do I answer?

# ¿ Sep 7, 2012 20:56

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

Hieronymus is very correct that interviewing matters way more than your GPA. Review the hell out of your first 2 CS classes. Do problems at sites like interviewstreet and the Facebook engineering puzzles.

Leave your GPA off your resume and network like a crazy person. I dunno what school you're attending, but I've gone to every event sponsored by a tech company there is and that's paid off way more than anything in my classes. Sitting in some talk or going to a hackathon and chitty-chatting with a recruiter is way easier and way less time-consuming than keeping your GPA up, and it lets people put a face to your name, which is invaluable.

To give you an idea, my GPA is something like a 2.4 (granted, it's at a top 10 school, but it's not like a 2.4 at a good school is any sort of accomplishment, and it's barely a top 10 school) and I'm not hurting for job opportunities even a little bit.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2012 01:04

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

O(N) solution

code:

public boolean findSum(int[] ints, int sum) {
  HashSet<Integer> intSet = new HashSet<Integer>();
  for(int i : ints) intSet.add(i);
  for(int i : intSet) if(intSet.contains(sum-i)) return true;
  return false;
}

I have a significantly easier time with these questions than lots of my peers who are much better developers and have an easier time getting a job as a result. Learn your data structures! And get better at figuring out who crappy new hires are.

# ¿ Dec 14, 2012 01:32

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

For an internship, I gave a range of $25-35/hr and got an offer for $28. They're not gonna give you the absolute bare minimum possible because they know that if you have two offers, they're gonna be the company who doesn't care enough to do more than is absolutely required to hook someone into a job.

# ¿ Jan 15, 2013 22:57

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

I'm making an app for people who are interested in having sex with their friends, to facilitate the sex-mentioning process. Is this something to leave off my resume? I should probably mention that it's my first project outside of school or work in probably a year-ish.

it is fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Feb 1, 2013

# ¿ Feb 1, 2013 09:39

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

Stoph posted:

Is it Bang With Friends? http://bangwithfriends.com/

It's actually not Bang with Friends, it's a competitor to it that has some functionality Bang with Friends needs and lacks.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2013 09:48

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

The flipside of that is that I could teach my mom, who is a smart person who's never coded a thing in her life, how to write automated tests in like 2 weeks. It's not a very sexy job, but it is low stress and usually the same pay as dev. Hell, I was the highest-paid intern in the company in both my test internships, and the other interns were devs and EEs.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2013 18:46

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

PSA: networking with craigslist hookups is a viable strategy and the novelty of being asked what frameworks you've worked in while naked in a bathhouse hot tub is totally worth the $6 to get in.

On the way back to his house we talked about how his test coverage was terrible and how I have a lot of QA experience and he said "we'll definitely have to chat about this later" and I kissed my potential boss good night before driving home.

Queer people watch out for each other. Best sexual orientation ever.

# ¿ May 2, 2013 20:19

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

it is posted:

PSA: networking with craigslist hookups is a viable strategy and the novelty of being asked what frameworks you've worked in while naked in a bathhouse hot tub is totally worth the $6 to get in.

On the way back to his house we talked about how his test coverage was terrible and how I have a lot of QA experience and he said "we'll definitely have to chat about this later" and I kissed my potential boss good night before driving home.

Queer people watch out for each other. Best sexual orientation ever.

I'm working this job now and it's actually pretty awesome. The pay could be better but the atmosphere is relaxed and fun, and they think I'm some sort of superhero because I don't think they realize QA isn't all that hard. It's legit; don't be afraid to network through fuckbuddies.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2013 04:31

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

For the hat thing
Am I misunderstanding the question or is the answer "The first person says the color of any hat s/he sees then everyone else says that color too?"

Because unless I'm misunderstanding something that seems really trivial still

# ¿ Jul 29, 2013 01:25

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

There are 3 pieces of information you didn't tell me that are necessary to solve the puzzle. Do the hats all have to be different colors? Can the prisoners hear me guess? Do I know the possible colors of my hat?

If the prisoners can hear me guess, the problem is trivial. The first person guesses a color he sees, then everyone else guesses that same color.
Otherwise:
If the hats all have to be different colors, and I know the possible colors, the problem is trivial. Guess the one you don't see.
If the hats all have to be different colors, and I don't know the possible colors, the problem is intractable because there are an infinite number of colors.
If the hats aren't necessarily different colors, the problem is probabilistic. If I don't know what the possible colors are, I guess a color I see. If I do know what the possible colors are, it doesn't matter what I guess. In either case the probability of any one person getting it right is 1/7, so the probability of everyone getting it wrong is about 2/3.

So yeah, the problem is worded badly and depending on how you interpret it the probability of success is either 0, 1, or 2/3. And it's not even 1 with some sneaky tricks either.

OH here we go, I found it on google

quote:

The king of some faraway land is bored, so he decides to setup a little game for his own amusement. These are the rules of the game:

7 prisoners will be seated at a round table. Each prisoner will have a hat placed on their head. Each hat is one of seven possible colors. The prisoners can see everyone else's hat, but they cannot see their own. The prisoners will then write on a piece of paper what they think their hat color is, and hand the paper to the king.

If any of the prisoners guesses their hat color correctly, they will all go free. Otherwise, they are all executed on the spot.

If the prisoners use the naive strategy of guessing randomly, then they have a survival chance of 66%. Can you think of a strategy such that the prisoners have a 100% chance of survival?

Clarification:
1) There are no restrictions on how many of each color there are. The prisoners could all be wearing hats of the same color, or they could also all be wearing hats of different colors.
2) The prisoners cannot communicate in any way to each other after being seated on the table.
3) You know which 7 colors are in the pool of possible colors.

We know the pool of colors, the prisoners can't hear guesses, there can be an infinite number of hats of any given color.

it is fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Jul 29, 2013

# ¿ Jul 29, 2013 05:56

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

shrughes posted:

No, you fucktard, you number the colors 0-6, have each player agree to assume that the sum of the colors will be a different value from 0 to 6 (modulo 7) respectively, and calculate their hat color accordingly. FFS when I give hints upthread maybe you should follow them.

I'm dreadfully sorry. I hope my incorrectness about the solution to this problem about a king playing a game with colorful hats doesn't make your head explode.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2013 07:58

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

unsanitary posted:

I'm meeting face-to-face with a recruiter tomorrow... it probably won't go anywhere, but why not. Is business casual the norm, or could I potentially wear shorts and a nice polo and get away with it? I've always gotten my jobs through straight interviews and nothing through a recruiter.

e: It's at a coffee shop and not at their office.

I wore shorts to a job interview 2 jobs ago and got the job; apparently everyone was really impressed with me.

I interviewed for my current job running the QA department at a startup in a hot tub while naked.

There's nothing inherently bad about any manner of dress for a job interview. Just make sure you're demonstrating your fit for the company.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2013 16:02

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

Craigslist hookups can absolutely be an efficient way to network, depending on your area and the demographics you're attracted to. I'm in Austin and I typically have sex with cuddly bearded guys in their mid 20's to late 30's, which is a description you may recognize as fitting every single coworker you've ever had.

But really, the takeaway is that you should always be networking. If you meet a lot of people through any avenue, and you always include your field in the conversation, you're bound to find a few people who could use your skills. It's so easy to do, too. "What do you do?" is such a natural getting-to-know-you question. And if you mention that you're looking for work, they may know someone.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2013 17:08

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

I'm looking at contract QA positions on Craigslist and I'm not sure what kind of rate I should be asking for.

The most recent line on my resume is "QA Lead" (only 2 months, and for a tiny company, but my boss loved me and can provide a reference that yes, I did actually have that level of responsibility) but the one before that was QA Intern which probably makes it look like I was Dunner-Krugering myself into a fancy title that isn't really verifiably false.

For a 6-month contract would I bill something on the order of $50/hr, something on the order of $80/hr, something on the order of $100/hr? I legit don't know because glassdoor kinda sucks at this and I have a decent idea of what I'd ask for as a salary but not really an hourly rate.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2013 19:24

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

Run away, MBTI is pseudoscientific bullshit and using it to make decisions on $$$ is a horrible idea.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2013 23:44

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

They're definitely out there. There are all kinds of devs because the kinds of people who go into software development are the people who are good at software development which has nothing at all to do with stereotypical "introversion" or "extroversion" (whatever that means) and everything to do with the kinds of problems you find interesting and your attention span and a whole bunch of other things that have nothing to do with how engineer-y you are.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2013 02:39

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

The sequence questions test your aptitude at something. They're a crappy indirect way to test programming aptitude but at least you can say "I know that this person is better than this other person at X, Y, and Z because they scored higher than them on this test." X, Y, and Z are not skills related to programming but at least they exist. MBTI is retarded pseudoscience. It's basically judging candidates on what Hogwarts house the Sorting Hat sorts them into.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2013 07:17

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

bonds0097 posted:

I would definitely work for a company with a Sorting Hat. That sounds awesome. Who would want to hire Hufflepuffs?

I remember doing a sequence test thingy for IBM once and felt incredibly stupid afterwards. I was relatively certain I'd bombed it.

I remember the sequence test thingy for IBM. I took it for their Extreme Blue internship program. One of my neighbors apparently had access to the score and said that I got the highest one out of all the intern candidates. She also said that I was clearly the strongest candidate and would've gotten an offer if I weren't a white male so I don't know how much I believe her since I'm pretty sure at least one Extreme Blue intern was most likely a white male that year.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2013 23:34

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

The negotiating strategy of "never give the first number" doesn't work if you can justify a really high number.

I'm a senior in college, but my most recent job is/was running a department. In an interview, I was asked for my salary requirement, so I gave a number that's about 30% higher than they'd normally offer someone graduating soon and said "and I can command it because X, Y, Z." The recruiter didn't even acknowledge that there was anything off about it, even though I know it's high because one of my other friends who works there said "if you wind up with more money than me I'm gonna be pissed off." I've run into her a couple times at networking events and she's scheduling me for a conversation with their director of engineering and as long as I communicate that I know my poo poo I'm good.

So that's my advice. If you have good experience, and can command a higher salary than the person hiring you would expect, give a really high number and let them be the one to come down, rather than you having to push their initial offer up.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2013 18:27

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

There's no reason to suspect that, though. I gave a number that's so high that my friends who have graduated and are working full-time jobs have said "really? Good luck." It's above the point that it would be reasonably negotiated to from the kind of offer I'd expect. And if they are willing to pay more, I'll find that out when the other companies I've given that same number to are bidding for me.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2013 20:43

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

I'll do an experiment.

Among the companies I've gotten interviews from without naming a number, I'll see which ones give me offers. Then I'll see how high I can get those offers before mentioning the numbers on the offers I did name my salary requirement on. I'm willing to bet that naming a really high number was the best strategy in this case, if only because I couldn't imagine price going up 20% just by virtue of two people bidding on me.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2013 21:19

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

"We'll offer you $N."
"I want $N+15k (the approximate differential between the number I quoted and a starting salary on the high side for a new grad)"
"I'm not comfortable offering you $N+15k."

What, other than "this other company will," do I say to that? I know $N+15k is an unreasonable counteroffer, they know $N+15k is an unreasonable counteroffer, and they know I know $N+15k is an unreasonable counteroffer. When the negotiation is anchored lower than that I can't really hope to get the number I want except by asking for more than it and hoping they'll meet me closer to the middle.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2013 21:33

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

Right, but N will be in the same category as the other offers they give to college grads, and M is in a different category entirely. And if my options are taking their offer or going unemployed, they know they've got the upper hand in the negotiation.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2013 22:03

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

California company wants to contract me to increase their test coverage and also maintain their tests. I am in Texas. If I sent you my resume would you tell me what hourly rate I should bill?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 15:35

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

No Safe Word posted:

This is not a lot of detail to go on, and it's not just what's on your resume that's missing (in fact, that matters little). What's the complexity of the product you'd be working on? Would you actually have any other responsibilities aside from writing tests (ie would you be more of a QA lead type?)? Lots more is missing.

The email with the proper nouns taken out:

quote:

We are currently working to increase our automated test coverage and need help writing and maintaining comprehensive tests. It looks like you have some experience in this area but I understand you are in school at present. What would be your availability (hours/week) and required compensation?

So I'm explaining that I'm not in any classes this semester and would be free 40 hours per week. Also, for what it's worth, the most recent line on my resume was "QA Lead," in which I defined best practices for writing automated tests and set up a CI server and all sorts of stuff tangentially related to making sure the product was correct and online. However, the line before that was "QA Intern," and I'm pretty sure my contact has never heard of the company I was QA lead for.

Hopefully that brings you closer to helping me estimate what a company would pay?

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 16:08

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

I sent an email saying that I'd like to talk further about the length of the contract and my responsibilities and the tools required, which would probably help answer the questions about whether the code is a big ball of mud or not. I do have refactoring in a QA position on my resume, which may be a hopeful sign.

The email I posted is the length of my current communications with the company though. I just have no idea what an hourly contractor is supposed to bill because pretty much everyone I know in this field is on salary, and there are rules of thumb for converting salary to hourly that give amazingly different numbers, which in turn give amazingly different numbers from what my friends and coworkers have said is reasonable.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 16:50

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

Thanks guys, that helps some. Should it feel really high? Because it does.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 18:48

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

I feel ridiculous asking for an hourly rate in the triple digits for contract QA work but I guess out pays what it pays.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2013 19:04

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# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 14:24

it is: Aug 19, 2011; by Smythe

it is posted:

I feel ridiculous asking for an hourly rate in the triple digits for contract QA work but I guess out pays what it pays.

Update on this: person I'd be reporting to says that she thinks there are 40 hours of week of work, and it'd be a contract that lasts until at least the end of the year. Should my rate go down in light of the fact that it'd be 40 hours per week for 2 months? Should it go up? Should it stay where it is?

# ¿ Oct 2, 2013 19:09

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