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Puseklepp
Jan 9, 2011

like watching the most beautiful ballerina on the best stage

vyelkin posted:

So what if a player was injured in the act of scoring a goal, like Huntelaar in in that one game where he ended up with a mouthful of grass? The goal still counted. Does the goal still count in #3?

You don't usually start with a dropped ball at the six-yard line after a goal, so I would guess the goal don't count.

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vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Jozy loves scoring like a fat kid loves eating cake.


That's what I'm saying. Hackett didn't really answer the question because he's assuming you could stop play for the injury before the goal was even scored, when that's usually not what happens in situations where the player gets injured in the act of scoring a goal. Technically if you stop play as soon as there's a major injury, that would be after the player kicked/headed it or whatever, but before the goal was actually scored, but that's dumb and no one would do that. Essentially what Hackett's done is disallow the goal but not say why, which is irritating because it's not what YATR is about. He's ignoring the actual 'a goal was scored' part of the question because of the 'a player's leg fell off' part, without telling us whether the goal was actually scored or not, which I'm pretty sure was the point of the question.

the sex ghost
Sep 6, 2009




get your loafs and your dogsos ready because it's that time of the week again

Modus Trollens
Sep 12, 2010



the sex ghost posted:

get your loafs and your dogsos ready because it's that time of the week again



1) Only one of them can come to the circle pregame but beyond that whatever, if people can wear black armbands is fine imo, the only duty of a captain (by the laws) is that pregame handshake, unofficially they're supposed to communicate with the ref and be a leader etc. etc. but I really think its fine.
2) Let it happen. He probably didn't need treatment anyway and you're only doing it because its protocol
3) If you think its offside then it is offside. Give the defender with the flag a yellow for unsporting behavior

also hello Paul Scholes?

Overminty
Mar 16, 2010

You may wonder what I am doing while reading your posts..


1) Yes, tell them all to take them off except the actual captain (I assume you get the team lineup before kick off and includes the captain). Bollock the manager.

2) Go on with play if he's not looking for treatment.

3) Free kick to the attackersGive the offside, book the defender for being a twat.

e; Don't think all bookable offences are free kicks

Overminty fucked around with this message at Apr 20, 2012 around 15:18

Hoops
Aug 19, 2005


A Black Mark For Retarded Posting

the sex ghost posted:

get your loafs and your dogsos ready because it's that time of the week again


1) yeah, they really shouldn't be wearing them. Got to be clear who the captain is.

2) maybe send the manager to the stands for jeopardising the safety of his players. Other than that, carry on as normal, he can take the penalty.

3) [edit] oops it says you're sure he's actually OFFside.

then normal rules apply. Treat it as you would any other offside, book the flag waver for being a twat. The linesman's flag is there to alert you that a player is offside, if you know he's offside the linesman doesn't need to come into it.

Hoops fucked around with this message at Apr 20, 2012 around 15:13

Mickolution
Oct 1, 2005

Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

1. Make all but the captain take them off. The captain is allowed talk to the ref regarding incidents involving other players, so he has to be identifiable. It's similar to two players with the same number on.

2. The ref can make someone go off if he thinks he requires treatment, so he can be forced off if you think he needs it.

3. Give the offside, book the defender.

Giovanni_Sinclair
Apr 25, 2009

It was on this day that his greatest enemy defeated, the true lord of darkness arose. His name? MARIO.


the sex ghost posted:

get your loafs and your dogsos ready because it's that time of the week again



1)Well I guess have them wear a different color armband while the real captain wear the right one?
2)If he thinks he could take the kick then let him and then let him get treatment and punch the manager.
3)If i think it's offsides then it's offsides.

a real peso shit
Jun 24, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 3642 days!


the sex ghost posted:

get your loafs and your dogsos ready because it's that time of the week again



1) Instruct them to take armbands off, If they refuse, abandon the game
2) If the physio has instructed the physio to come on the field he has to take the player away.
3) Red for the player who picked up the flag, Call the offside.

Vagabundo
Mar 20, 2007

I'm not an alcoholic, I only drink when McCaw's offside.

1. Tell them to get rid of the armbands. If they refuse, abandon the game and declare it a forfeit to the other team.
2. Stop the game. Send manager to the stands, detail it in your report, recommend a lengthy ban.
3. Award the goal because the linesman wasn't there to let you know if it was offside or not. Red card to defender because he's a loving dickhead. If he's going to be a twat, he can do it in the stands.

Mickolution
Oct 1, 2005

Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

I thought a ref could give an offside decision on his own, now? It says the ref knew it was off.

foobardog
Apr 19, 2007



1. What. The. gently caress. You get one captain. They can maybe all wear it during practice, but only the captain can wear it during the game.

2. gently caress that. Tell the manager to let the physio on, the striker's health and safety is more important. If he refuses, eject the manager.

3. Yellow to defender for unsporting behavior. Call it offside as normal, after conferring with the AR to make sure. Free kick to the defense.

Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam


the sex ghost posted:

get your loafs and your dogsos ready because it's that time of the week again



1) Don't care tbh. As long as they send one person out to do the coin toss I'm fine as the captain has no special standing under the Laws.

2) If he is OK to take the penalty then let him. Punch the manager in the face for thinking that the top penalty man who's hurt will have a better shot at the penalty than the #2 penalty man who is healthy.

3) Blow the play offside and caution the defender for unsporting behavior. Defender is lucky, if he'd been onside and fooled by the defender's flag it would be a straight red for dogso. Punch your assistant in the face for having butterfingers.

Vagabundo
Mar 20, 2007

I'm not an alcoholic, I only drink when McCaw's offside.

Mickolution posted:

I thought a ref could give an offside decision on his own, now? It says the ref knew it was off.

Punish the unsporting fuckers, I say.

DAAS Kapitalist
Nov 9, 2005

Jackass: The Mad Monk

Don't try this at home.


the sex ghost posted:

get your loafs and your dogsos ready because it's that time of the week again



1. Depends on league-specific rules on kit. No law that the captain be distinguishable by their clothing.
2. Depends how long he takes to get up. If he takes too long after refusing treatment, yellow card and order another player to take the penalty.
3. Offside. I'd like to send the defender off under the heading of interfering with an official, but I think only a yellow can be given. Report the offence for the league to deal with.

Bea Nanner
Oct 20, 2003

Je suis excité!


Keith Hackett posted:

1) I would not have a problem with this, assuming of course that they don't all want to be involved in the pre-match coin toss... The only consideration is the competition rule book: some competitions require the captain to wear a distinguishing armband to indicate his status. But if that is not the case here, there is no need to intervene.
Thanks to Ralph Hutton.
2) So long as the delay is not excessive, I would take a sympathetic approach to the manager's tactics here: his side have been wronged, and he simply wants the best possible chance of taking advantage of the penalty. Allow the striker a reasonable amount of time to recover, and make an allowance for that at the end of the half. It is also worth noting that you should not generally wave a physio on unless the injured player has requested treatment. Thanks to Mark Tailsman.
3) You need to piece this one together. First, talk to your assistant to ask for his opinion on the offside. You have the final say, though, so if you stand by your view that the player was offside, regardless of the advice, disallow the goal and restart in the usual way. You also need to caution he defender for a particularly blatant act of unsporting behaviour.
Tom Lockton wins the shirt.

for 1) doesn't the PL have a rule where only the captain can address the ref? I'm not sure how official it is, and it's obviously poorly enforced. I seem to recall the FA attempting to enforce this a couple seasons ago, but then failing miserably. It would most likely be a league rule instead of a law of the game, though.

for 2) why can't the player walk off and back on and take the penalty? Or is it assuming he will need lengthy treatment? Or that any treatment at all will delay the game?

Bea Nanner fucked around with this message at Apr 23, 2012 around 21:37

Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam


HinderedUseless posted:

for 2) why can't the player walk off and back on and take the penalty? Or is it assuming he will need lengthy treatment? Or that any treatment at all will delay the game?

"[The Referee] stops the match if, in his opinion, a player is seriously injured and ensures that he is removed from the field of play. An injured player may only return to the field of play after the match has restarted", so he would only be able to enter after the kick has been taken.

As far as 1, yeah that would only be governed by the competition rules; the captain's only responsibility under the Law is to take the coin toss.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

I'm a bloomin' mathematical genius!
BOOM BOOM!


HinderedUseless posted:

for 1) doesn't the PL have a rule where only the captain can address the ref?

No

EvilHawk
Sep 15, 2009
This space
intentionally
left blank

HinderedUseless posted:

for 1) doesn't the PL have a rule where only the captain can address the ref? I'm not sure how official it is, and it's obviously poorly enforced. I seem to recall the FA attempting to enforce this a couple seasons ago, but then failing miserably. It would most likely be a league rule instead of a law of the game, though.

The issue isn't people addressing the ref. You'd assume (though it doesn't say it in the scenario) that there is an official, named, captain. The issue was simply "can these players wear an armband", and the answer is yes. It's basically treated the same as the black armbands.

the sex ghost
Sep 6, 2009




madey
Sep 17, 2007

I saved the Olympics singlehandedly


1) No goal, offside.
2)straight red for violent conduct to the defender for violent conduct, second yellow to the striker for unsporting behaviour.
3)My gut says yellow for unsporting behaviour to the striker for impeding the defender disallow the goal, unless you think the defender has dived then it should be a yellow for the defender and a penalty (does diving in your own box incur a penalty?).

foobardog
Apr 19, 2007



1. I'm assuming that the player was definitely offside when the ball was kicked. I'd say the crossbar counts as a new "kick" and therefore if the player was onside when it hit the crossbar, it's a goal.

2. I don't think you can give either one cards, though it's what you would have done if you hadn't blown the whistle yet (both second yellows). Write the incident down and report it to the league. They can probably deal with it.

3. No goal. I would have been wanting to blow for a foul and possible card on the striker (and maybe the defender). He shouldn't get away from it just because I didn't get to my whistle in time, and something weird happened.

Vagabundo
Mar 20, 2007

I'm not an alcoholic, I only drink when McCaw's offside.

1. From the way the question is written, it seems like the kick and the guy getting onside were more or less simultaneous. Benefit of the doubt and thus cool goal, bro.
2. Yellow both of them - defender for lashing out like that. He's already had a bad day, he should have been taken out of the game a while ago so put the poor guy out of his misery. Yellow the striker for being a stinkyhole.
3. Goal. Point and laugh at the diving stinkyhole.

Mickolution
Oct 1, 2005

Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

1. Assuming he's in an offside position when the shot is taken, no goal.

2. Two second yellows.

3. Goal stands.

stickyfngrdboy
Oct 21, 2010

Bitter,
probably


1. This question isn't written very well. Offside assuming the player was still offside when the ball was struck.

2. Caution both, unsporting behaviour.

3. Trying to pick up an apparently injured player (even if you think he's feigning) is surely an offence (you are not the ref). Regardless, you've got your hands on him as the ball comes in, stopping him making an attempt for the ball. No goal, free kick defender.

Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam


the sex ghost posted:



1) If he was offside when the ball was kicked, this is textbook gaining an advantage. Offside.
2) Caution for unsporting conduct and send off the striker. Straight red for violent conduct for the defender.
3) I think Hackett would say to caution for unsporting behavior and restart with an IDFK for the defense. But I feel like I've seen the "haul diving player to his feet" thing go unpenalized before. So I'm tempted to say goal anyway.

Humphrey Vasel
May 31, 2011


Lamont Cranston posted:

1) If he was offside when the ball was kicked, this is textbook gaining an advantage. Offside.
2) Caution for unsporting conduct and send off the striker. Straight red for violent conduct for the defender.
3) I think Hackett would say to caution for unsporting behavior and restart with an IDFK for the defense. But I feel like I've seen the "haul diving player to his feet" thing go unpenalized before. So I'm tempted to say goal anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=832-EFBtXtQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uiSUzk0LaI

Neither are dives, nor was anyone carded.

Modus Trollens
Sep 12, 2010



1) Offside position, offside
2) Laugh heartily, 2nd yellows for both
3) Yellow for the striker, free kick to the defense. You can't do that stuff

Baggins
Feb 21, 2007

Like a Great Wind!


the sex ghost posted:



1) Woodwork count as a separate touch so goal stands if he's onside when the ball hits the crossbar.

2) 2nd yellow/red for both.

3) Goal stands.

Mickolution
Oct 1, 2005

Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

Baggins posted:

1) Woodwork count as a separate touch so goal stands if he's onside when the ball hits the crossbar.

Surely he'd have to be onside when the initial shot is taken? When it hits the crossbar, he's behind the ball and can't be off, same as when it's coming back to him. It's the same as following up a saved shot for a rebound, if you're off when the first shot was taken and score the rebound, it won't count.

ManoliIsFat
Oct 4, 2002



Modus Trollens posted:

1) Offside position, offside
When does he become active in the play?

Modus Trollens
Sep 12, 2010



ManoliIsFat posted:

When does he become active in the play?

Its already been covered but when he kicks it hes in the play and he is coming from an offside position

Redundant
Sep 24, 2011

Even robots have feelings!

ManoliIsFat posted:

When does he become active in the play?
He becomes active when the ball hits him and goes in. It doesn't matter that he's onside at that point since he was offside when the shot was taken.

1) I assume offside but the wording is bad.
2) Straight red defender, not sure about yellow for the striker but probably a yellow then red. Write it into match report etc etc.
3) gently caress it, goal, he's not holding him down he's actively helping the player up. Nothing would have changed if he had just left him on the floor.

Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam


Humphrey Vasel posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=832-EFBtXtQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uiSUzk0LaI

Neither are dives, nor was anyone carded.

Right, that's why I say in my experience of having seen this type of play I don't think I've seen it punished. I only said "diving" because I thought that's what the question was implying by saying the defender was going down too easily.

As for the offside, I don't have the laws in front of me but "gaining an advantage" specifically mentions a ball coming back off of the crossbar. So if he were offside when the ball was initially kicked, he would have gained an advantage by being there and therefore the play would be offside. (According to my reading anyway) Again, the question is worded vaguely so I'm not 100% sure on what the call should be.

Thel
Apr 28, 2010



the sex ghost posted:



These questions are getting more and more bizarre. How long until we see someone jumping a shark?

Anyway:

1: No goal if he was offside when the original shot was hit. Otherwise, goal.

2: Straight red to the defender, second yellow + red for the striker.

3: Goal stands, have a word to the attacker to stop trying to haul the defender up.

Giovanni_Sinclair
Apr 25, 2009

It was on this day that his greatest enemy defeated, the true lord of darkness arose. His name? MARIO.


the sex ghost posted:



1)Goal
2)Red for the defender and for the striker.
3)Goal and punch the striker after giving him a talking.

AVBrafaDiMatteo
Nov 30, 2009
Bad ads nab top cop. Also, The Project Pt. II.

When all else fails, cash in your Ruples for new foreign myths.


1. Definite goal - the crossbar stops forward motion/is a new kick, and player was onsides when the ball came back to him.

2. Arguable red for angry guy throwing ball, second yellow for strikeer (although in a top flight league I could see this getting appealed). Most likely dos yellow cards, per the rulebook.

3. I'm thinking about the wording - if the diver reached up for a hand to pull him up, it's unlucky - if he was basically forced up by the other player before the whistle, yellow card, disallow the goal.

Actually a solid batch of questions this week.

Lamont Cranston posted:

Right, that's why I say in my experience of having seen this type of play I don't think I've seen it punished. I only said "diving" because I thought that's what the question was implying by saying the defender was going down too easily.

As for the offside, I don't have the laws in front of me but "gaining an advantage" specifically mentions a ball coming back off of the crossbar. So if he were offside when the ball was initially kicked, he would have gained an advantage by being there and therefore the play would be offside. (According to my reading anyway) Again, the question is worded vaguely so I'm not 100% sure on what the call should be.

I agree that the wording is ambiguous - I see tons of plays where an offsides player runs onside as another player makes a shot at goal, and then the offside player, now onside, sinks it in/makes the assist. It all comes down to whether the woodwork and or his "advantage" was really advantage, I'd think. To me, it's ambigious because I'm not sure scrambling back onside against the motion of play, despite being offside/father down the opponent's 3rd than an onside player, is an "advantage" worthy of disallowing the goal.

Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam


As luck would have it I do now have the Law in front of me.

quote:

“gaining an advantage by being in that position” means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a goalpost or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position

If he was offside when the ball was kicked, then he's offside whether or not he'd managed to scramble back on by the time the ball reached him from the crossbar.

The only thing I could see is since the ball rebounded off of his back, perhaps that might not be interpreted as "playing" the ball.

The offside rule doesn't care where you receive the ball, only where you are when it's played. I don't think it should be any different here (Again, unless the idea is that he didn't actually play the ball).

Of course, apart from the fact that I Am The Ref, I am not a ref so this is all probably totally wrong.

stickyfngrdboy
Oct 21, 2010

Bitter,
probably


Lamont Cranston posted:

As luck would have it I do now have the Law in front of me.


If he was offside when the ball was kicked, then he's offside whether or not he'd managed to scramble back on by the time the ball reached him from the crossbar.

The only thing I could see is since the ball rebounded off of his back, perhaps that might not be interpreted as "playing" the ball.


Nah, doesn't matter which part of his body it hits, he's offside. (Assuming, of course, that the when the ball is struck by his teammate he is in an offside position, it isn't 100% clear in the question.)

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Lamont Cranston
Sep 1, 2006

how do i shot foam


Luckily Hackett is here to save us all.

quote:

1) No. While the ball may have hit the player's back when he was in an onside position, when the shot was taken he was in an offside position, and that's what matters. The player, who became active when the ball struck him, has gained an advantage from the rebound. Thanks to Michael Langdon.
2) Although this incident has happened after the final whistle, you can still issue sanctions. You may sympathise with the defender's reaction, but you have to stick to the laws: show him a straight red card for violent conduct – the striker was struck in the face – and show the striker a second yellow card, then a red, for unsporting behaviour. Thanks to Russell Holmes.
3) You have split seconds to sort this one out in your mind. In my view, the key factors are these: a) The striker was onside when the ball was played; b) The defender was not fouled when he fell to the ground; c) The defender was not seriously impeded when the striker tried to pick him up – he was already lying down. So I see no reason to penalise the attacking side: award the goal. You should, though, warn both players against using exaggerated gestures to try and influence decisions: tell them that you are the ref... Roger Conway wins the shirt.

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