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Tempest_56 posted:Fortunately not plausible - a RAC20 would soak up 12 crits and 16 tons per. Still plausible, but we're also talking about generating 42 heat per gun when at full rock and roll. Any mech that could handle generating 168 heat per turn and not instantly explode scares the hell out of me no matter what it's armed with. Stackpole rule + no heatsinks + as many RAC20s as will fit = 
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 01:55 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 13:36 |
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b0lt posted:Stackpole rule + no heatsinks + as many RAC20s as will fit = Where can I find information about RAC20s? Are they listed on the wiki?
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 02:07 |
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Maximum Tech. The Rotary AC20 is the cheesiest weapon (at least in my opinion) in a book dedicated to ridiculously cheesy weapons. Basically, take an R/AC 2, then add a zero to all instances where damage is applied. Can't remember its range: that may be the only saving grace because it's probably short. Chicken Slayer fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2011 around 02:19 |
| # ? Jun 23, 2011 02:17 |
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landcollector posted:Where can I find information about RAC20s? Are they listed on the wiki? Chicken Slayer posted:Maximum Tech. The Rotary AC20 is the cheesiest weapon (at least in my opinion) in a book dedicated to ridiculously cheesy weapons. I guess I was wrong about it not being in a book! But here's my extrapolation: --It can shoot up to 6 rounds per turn --Heat should be like a standard AC/20, 7/shot --Each additional shot increases chance for gun to jam. It can be unjammed, but I think you can unjam it one turn and then fire the subsequent turn. It's a murder cannon. Rick_Hunter fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2011 around 02:21 |
| # ? Jun 23, 2011 02:17 |
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Are those really ER medium lasers on the Exterminator? That thing is pretty badass!
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 02:22 |
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Rick_Hunter posted:I guess I was wrong about it not being in a book! But here's my extrapolation:  Yeah, that's definitely a very big cannon.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 02:23 |
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Chicken Slayer posted:Maximum Tech. The Rotary AC20 is the cheesiest weapon (at least in my opinion) in a book dedicated to ridiculously cheesy weapons. RAC20 is not in Max Tech. It's from one of the Btech fan magazines.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 02:24 |
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Rick_Hunter posted:It also jams frequently and even more than the rac 5/rac 2. In the same place of 1 rac 20 you can put enough weapons to do the same amount of damage and not jam at all! remember not all the shots will hit, and they hit on the cluster table.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 02:31 |
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Longinus00 posted:RAC20 is not in Max Tech. It's from one of the Btech fan magazines. MechForce UK, to be precise. It's nasty. How nasty? Range 4/8/12, damage 20, heat 7, 16 tons and 10 crits, 5 shots/ton. BV is 823/118 for weapon/1 ton of ammo. Yes, that means a RAC20 with 7 tons of ammo (about the minimum you'd want for a semi-sustained engagement firing at full rock and roll a few times) comes out to 1650 BV, or more than many Battlemechs. Of course, if you want even more broken weapons, there's the RAC-10. The RAC-10 is a mere 7 crits and 14 tons of sheer goddamn bum surprise sex. "But bum surprise sex? How can that be when it does half as much damage?" you say. Well, it has 6/12/18 range. Yes, the same range as an IS PPC or the LBX-10. It does 10 damage per shot. It generates a mere 3 heat per shot and gets 10 shots of ammo per ton. Firing on 5 shot, on average, it is like having 3 and a half IS PPCs mounted on your mech. Except those 3.5 PPCs are generating only 15 heat. And given the amount of ammo you need to sustain the gun, you can fire on single shot literally all day. The best part? As unofficial tech, if you can use RAC-10s you can definitely use CASE II, so ammo explosions are basically a huge joke for you. Axe-man posted:It also jams frequently and even more than the rac 5/rac 2. In the same place of 1 rac 20 you can put enough weapons to do the same amount of damage and not jam at all! It jams the same amount as the RAC 2/5. Firing on 3 shot, it only jams 3% of the time, while firing on 5 shot it only jams 8.3% of the time. on 3-shot you're averaging ~50 damage, while on 5-shot you're averaging 70-80 or so. All you need is to remember that it's your primary gun and you have to baby it a lot. You do have to make hard design decisions and have good pilots to get good use out of it, sure, but it is also an incredibly ridiculous weapon. MJ12 fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2011 around 02:39 |
| # ? Jun 23, 2011 02:35 |
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Round 2: the Elementals from Part 1 drop onto our Comguard from orbit after walking from the last battle.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 02:39 |
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First a NARC and now a null sig and an AMS? PTN always gives me fun toys to play with. Looking forward to trying to redeem myself after our last failed attempt at this. 
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 02:41 |
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SynthOrange posted:Round 2: the Elementals from Part 1 drop onto our Comguard from orbit after walking from the last battle. On surfboards Space Surfboards
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 03:03 |
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MJ12 posted:
Those damages are only applicable if your gun never jams. You should redo your avg damage calculations with 0 damage when you jam.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 03:15 |
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Longinus00 posted:RAC20 is not in Max Tech. It's from one of the Btech fan magazines. Fair enough: could have sworn it was though. This would also explain why the R/AC-10 listed here has more range than the R/AC-5. Remind me again how these things Jam?
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 03:18 |
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Zikan posted:Space Surfboards That are on fire.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 03:22 |
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, that's why.
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Defiance Industries posted:I'm just trying to raise awareness. That's why Defiance Industries has partnered with Nashan Diversified's pharmaceutical division to match every kroner pledged to research on figuring out which end of an EpiPen goes where.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 03:46 |
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MJ12 posted:RAC absurdity And this is why we don't advance beyond 3060 tech in our games. Once you get past ER Med/Small and other Ultra/LBX autocannons it starts to get absurd.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 03:54 |
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Taerkar posted:And this is why we don't advance beyond 3060 tech in our games. Once you get past ER Med/Small and other Ultra/LBX autocannons it starts to get absurd. To be fair, the RAC10/20 are totally non-canon and don't technically exist in the BT universe. They're just the wild pipe dream of a fan mag twenty years ago. The actual RAC 2 and 5 are fun tools that have reasonable good and bad points. The bad point is that they do have fairly frequent jams, require a LOT of ammo to function and are rather costly size- and weight-wise for their effects. The good point is that you are firing six goddamn AC5 shots a round and the world is loving full of dakka. It may not be a Clan ERPPC, but the RAC5 is drat fun.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 04:06 |
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Longinus00 posted:Those damages are only applicable if your gun never jams. You should redo your avg damage calculations with 0 damage when you jam. Given jam rates are in the single-digit percentages and the gun takes 1 turn to unjam, the reduced damage from jamming isn't as meaningful as you'd think on average. Chicken Slayer posted:Fair enough: could have sworn it was though. The RAC10 has more range than the RAC5 because it's a Clan weapon. The TacOps Clan Rotary ACs have pretty incredible range actually (although refreshingly, unlike most Clan weapons they mass the same and are larger than the IS ones). Note that the TacOps ones are the RAC2 and RAC5, the RAC10 and 20 didn't make the cut for obvious reasons. They jam because you're trying to feed about 500 bullets the size of your fist through eight barrels in about 2 seconds, and that means you can get misfeeds because you're trying to do every feed very quickly. A slight misalignment throws the whole thing out of whack and the weapon presumably stops firing instead of blowing itself up trying to jam two bullets down one barrel. MJ12 fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2011 around 04:15 |
| # ? Jun 23, 2011 04:08 |
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MJ12 posted:Given jam rates are in the single-digit percentages and the gun takes 1 turn to unjam, the reduced damage from jamming isn't as meaningful as you'd think on average. Are you trying to say that a non zero chance of doing 0 damage doesn't affect the average damage of a weapon?
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 04:21 |
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Longinus00 posted:Are you trying to say that a non zero chance of doing 0 damage doesn't affect the average damage of a weapon? No I'm saying that a 3% jam rate doesn't affect the average damage of a weapon over enough games enough. If jammed, you don't get to fire for 2 turns as a rough guide, so multiply average damage over time by (0.97)^2 to (0.91)^2 or so to get your actual average damage. The result is still pretty incredible.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 04:24 |
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MJ12 posted:No I'm saying that a 3% jam rate doesn't affect the average damage of a weapon over enough games enough. The jam rate is much higher than 3% for shots > 3. Your previous numbers for RAC20 damage are pretty inflated.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 04:29 |
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Defiance Industries posted:I just realized: WHERE ARE THE TANKS????? That is right. The Horse's actually have a thing for mechanized units don't they?
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 04:42 |
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MJ12 posted:They jam because you're trying to feed about 500 bullets the size of your fist through eight barrels in about 2 seconds, and that means you can get misfeeds because you're trying to do every feed very quickly. A slight misalignment throws the whole thing out of whack and the weapon presumably stops firing instead of blowing itself up trying to jam two bullets down one barrel. I was actually wondering about how they jam rules wise (I thought it was roll a dice for each shot, jam when you roll doubles, but they're fire all X shots for that turn, then jam. This lead to them being weapons you fired once every other turn, since you'd naturally empty all 6 barrels into some poor sucker, then wait a turn whilst the mech cooled down and you unjammed the gun). I remember MW4 Mercs when they introduced these things: The RAC5 was simply a murderous buzzsaw of a gun, that just wouldn't stop pumping out lead. So naturally you grabbed two of them and went to town. Yeah, it's the computer game. But it did give you a fairly good idea of how monstrous these things were in general. Chicken Slayer fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2011 around 04:48 |
| # ? Jun 23, 2011 04:45 |
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Chicken Slayer posted:I was actually wondering about how they jam rules wise (I thought it was roll a dice for each shot, jam when you roll doubles, but they're fire all X shots for that turn, then jam. This lead to them being weapons you fired once every other turn, since you'd naturally empty all 6 barrels into some poor sucker, then wait a turn whilst the mech cooled down and you unjammed the gun). I remember MW4 Mercs when they introduced these things: The RAC5 was simply a murderous buzzsaw of a gun, that just wouldn't stop pumping out lead. So naturally you grabbed two of them and went to town. if you want to break the game, take a nova cat with all small xpulse and the heat sinks to use them.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 04:51 |
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Trast posted:That is right. The Horse's actually have a thing for mechanized units don't they? Indeed they do. I guess you'd better win this before the Eponas can arrive.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 04:52 |
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I was gonna say "drat, too bad we don't have Thunder LRMs" but HOVERCRAFT.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 05:04 |
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Chicken Slayer posted:I was actually wondering about how they jam rules wise Much the same as Ultra ACs do. Normal fire, doesn't jam. 2x fire, and if your to-hit roll is a 2 you jam. 2.77% 4x fire, and you jam on a 2 or 3. 8.33% 6x fire (which you should always be using), and you jam on a 2-4. 16.66%
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 05:06 |
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A RAC/5 was my go-to primary weapon in my current MW4 playthrough, along with some SRM6 and pack of small pulse lasers for facefucking close range once I'd ripped the armor apart with the RAC. Larger mechs got paired RAC/5 
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 05:10 |
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Bah. With drift you're going to be sandblasting armor off the enemy. The real answer is a minimum of one Heavy Gauss Rifle and as many PPCs as you can carry. Turns motherfuckers into donuts.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 05:17 |
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Seriously, teh best weapons in merc 4 mercs are gauss rifles... in fact gauss rifles are the best weapon  edit: if you roll your torso like you should be and take your shots really racs are not that good at rocking a mech or even damaging it. It simply takes to long, and there are weapons that do more damage instantly. Axe-man fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2011 around 05:31 |
| # ? Jun 23, 2011 05:29 |
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The RAC was great at punching targets, either twinfired or staggered. Whenever he's cycled and trying to line up some shots with his own PPCs, he's being literally punched in the head and shoulders with explosives. I ended up really learning to love medium and fast-heavy mechs, and took lances of Novas or Bushwhackers on every single solo mission with unified loadouts similar to my own. Carried a NARC, maybe it was a placebo, but it seemed to make my buddies' SRMs hit their mark virtually every time, for a lot of knockdowns at the start of each engagement.
Chronojam fucked around with this message at Jun 23, 2011 around 05:31 |
| # ? Jun 23, 2011 05:29 |
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In the various MW4 iterations, I was always a fan of ER Large (for obvious reasons) and Light Gauss Rifles. Why Light Gauss instead of Clan? Well you could fit Light Gauss into a few locations where a Clan Gauss wouldn't fit. But more importantly, 1200 meter range. Nobody really expects a couple of gauss slugs slamming into their center torso from outside of radar range.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 05:33 |
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As regards RAC/5s, I once made a custom Turkina that had two cRAC/5s, full Hardened Armor, and more ammunition than god. It's the kind of 'mech you absolutely have to give to like, a 0/1 pilot, but if you can stay on your legs and keep those cRAC/5s, you'll soon have the other guy decrying "Bullshit!" at his apparent inability to phase you and the way your AC/5 rounds are starting to punch through his armor all over.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 06:30 |
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Designs like that are why they built Griffins and poo poo. You just stay out of his range foreve and wait until you've filed him down enough. And for the BV of that, I can get a fuckload of Griffin-6Ses.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 06:40 |
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Defiance Industries posted:Designs like that are why they built Griffins and poo poo. You just stay out of his range foreve and wait until you've filed him down enough. And for the BV of that, I can get a fuckload of Griffin-6Ses. Clan RAC-5s have LRM range. If you stay at long range they can just plink you on single shot basically forever. Of course Hardened armor isn't where it's at. That, my friend, is why the world invented Ferro Lamellor and Reinforced IS. Put that stuff on an assault and you have a tough-as-nails rear end-reaping machine without the piloting and movement penalties of Hardened armor. And even when you chew through its delicious armor coating, you have the nougaty Reinforced IS which is -1 to all critical rolls and takes half damage. It can even survive a direct head hit from a Clan ER PPC or gauss rifle (15 damage reduced to 12, taking out all armor and 2 points of head IS), meaning the only headcappers against it are AC/20s and heavy gauss rifles.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 07:05 |
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Hardened Armor still has its uses, even compared to Ferro-Lammelor. F-L is some great poo poo, don't get me wrong, but Hardened says "TAC? Bwahahaha!" And with the ridiculous tonnage of ammunition in the body of this beast, you'll want the fact that it roffles at TACs. Granted, it could be a good design with F-L, too, I think. Depends on whether F-L takes up crits. Hardened takes up no crits. Also, Hardened gives you a lot more staying power than F-L against anything except the other guy spamming light MG boats at you.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 07:16 |
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MJ12 posted:Clan RAC-5s have LRM range. If you stay at long range they can just plink you on single shot basically forever. Eh, then in that case, the -5M Griffin, then. The LGR outranges the clan LRM rack by a few hexes. It'll take forever, but I'll never get touched.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 08:45 |
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Are our valiant goon pilots working together on their attack plan? Have they elected a squad leader to ride herd on some of the less experienced pilots? What sunk the last bunch besides the Elementals on crack was not focus firing consistently.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 17:19 |
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| # ? May 20, 2013 13:36 |
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Hardened Armor still has its uses, even compared to Ferro-Lammelor. F-L takes up 12 crits and is worth every one of them, because it provides virtual immunity against LB-X pellets and basically neuters most critseekers. Basically, any odd-damage weapons get shafted a bunch by how F-L reduces damage, which is pretty nice since quite a few weapons deal odd (non multiple of 5) damage. It also has the advantage of being significantly lighter and providing more protection per unit weight. (17.5 points per ton assuming you're getting hit by weapons that deal damage in chunks of 5, making it roughly equivalent to a Clan Light Ferro-Fibrous). Hardened is cool but Ferro-Lamellor is much more general purpose than Hardened armor IMO, since you generally don't sacrifice all that much to put it on a machine.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 17:51 |
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