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Doc_Uzuki
Jun 27, 2007


TheFace posted:

Once I get this whole contest thing out of the way I'm gonna try leangaining... just had a question. For those of you who work 8-5 (or at least start work relatively early), how are you handling working out in the morning (fasted)? The few times I've done any lifting in the morning before work (waking up at 5:30 to get to gym by 6) I've been way too drained from not really being awake yet. I do cardio in the morning but even then I can't really push myself as hard as I can later in the day.

According to Martin, you do not need to workout fasted. I have a smallish meal around 1pm, whey shake at 5pm and I'm in the gym at 5:15pm. Then I eat the rest of my calories by 9pm.

He gives a number of examples of eating/lifting schedules on his website.

This link here: http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

Doc_Uzuki fucked around with this message at Mar 24, 2011 around 17:36

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pintxo
Oct 22, 2010

by Ozmaugh


Uziel posted:

However, Martin has said (I'm currently looking for the source of this quote) that one shouldn't go below 100g of carbs even on high fat days. Until I find the exact quote, the reason given was that most people get bad headaches and feel bad when hitting the extremes.

Not from Martin, but here's a thing about bulking I bookmarked a while back: http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=1645

quote:

there's nothing about a ketogenic state that is ideal for muscle building.

this is why my 'lowcarb' bulk starts with enough carbs to avoid ketosis and then adds on top of that to cover training.

even the UD2 mass variant is based around avoiding ketosis on the 'depletion/low-carb' days by setting carbs at the 100-120 g/day cutoff. hormones wil lbe better, training quality will be better, everything will be better.

So it depends on your goals, I guess.

Liface
Jun 17, 2001

by T. Finn


nbzl posted:

I realize who I'm saying this to but don't read too far into it.

I'm of opinion that if you're hitting your macros, cycling calories, fasting, and eating clean 80% of the time then you should be fine. Don't over complicate the diet by over thinking it.

Yeah, that's exactly how I'm treating it, and it feels great. I like being able to extend the eating period a couple hours if I need to work out late or something.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008



How important is the workout schedule in this? I've been struggling to get leaner just by counting calories, and would like to give this a shot, but I'm intending on doing 3 heavy (2 upper body, 1 lower) & 2 light (jumping & gymnastics holds) workouts a week. I'm hoping to get by doing the +20% eating on the 3 heavy days , -20% on the 2 rest days, and maintenance on light days-think that would work?

Defiant Sally
May 6, 2004

Cum all over my mirrors just gettin off on my self maan, UUAOHH

WORSHIPPIN' this BIIG motherfucker.

*fingers dickhole*


Has anyone in this thread had much success bulking off this? Considering I dont eat from 1 AM - 2 PM every day I figure I might look into giving this a try.

Also, I lift 4 days a week.

Uziel
Jun 28, 2004

Ask me about losing 200lbs, and becoming the Viking God of W&W.

Defiant Sally posted:

Has anyone in this thread had much success bulking off this? Considering I dont eat from 1 AM - 2 PM every day I figure I might look into giving this a try.

Also, I lift 4 days a week.
Not sure about in this thread, but there are plenty of people bulking off of it on bodybuilding.com. Low fat chocolate milk is the secret.

Hot Dog Hotline
Jul 24, 2004

Hello? Hello?

I'm trying to bulk and having some difficulties doing it, but I was going to wait out a few months of trying before I started to whine on here. I'm not sure how much choco milk I should be drinking, but I'm trying 1/2 gallon three times a week right after a workout. Haven't gained much weight yet. Need to up calories in some other way or something. I feel/look great though and strength is shooting up.

nbzl
Apr 5, 2002

Don't worry about the horse being blind, just load the wagon.


Defiant Sally posted:

Has anyone in this thread had much success bulking off this? Considering I dont eat from 1 AM - 2 PM every day I figure I might look into giving this a try.

Also, I lift 4 days a week.

I bulked off this. Rather than doing the +20% calories on workout days I did it 7 days a week. From November until end of February I gained 15 pounds or so with likely 9 or 10 being lean. Staying decently lean was a nice plus but not the main reason why I did it. Eating enormous meals led to satiety, better sleep, and less cheating on my diet overall.

For those asking about working out early morning my suggestion would be 10G BCAA pre workout, then 10G BCAA immediatly following. For every 2 hours until you eat I'd sip on 10G BCAA. So let's say you work out at 6AM.. it'd end up something like this:

6AM 10G BCAA
6:15 lifting
8AM 10G BCAA
10AM 10G BCAA
12PM 10G BCAA
2PM you can break your fast here with food rather than eating BCAAs. This gave me an eating window that went until about 10PM.

That's the typical schedule I followed. Working out fasted is an entirely different world. Give it a shot for a couple weeks before you diss it.

Hot Dog Hotline posted:

I'm trying to bulk and having some difficulties doing it, but I was going to wait out a few months of trying before I started to whine on here. I'm not sure how much choco milk I should be drinking, but I'm trying 1/2 gallon three times a week right after a workout. Haven't gained much weight yet. Need to up calories in some other way or something. I feel/look great though and strength is shooting up.


Post what you've been eating. If you're not keeping track of this on fitday and weighing all your portions it's probably wrong.


mastershakeman posted:

How important is the workout schedule in this? I've been struggling to get leaner just by counting calories, and would like to give this a shot, but I'm intending on doing 3 heavy (2 upper body, 1 lower) & 2 light (jumping & gymnastics holds) workouts a week. I'm hoping to get by doing the +20% eating on the 3 heavy days , -20% on the 2 rest days, and maintenance on light days-think that would work?

I already addressed the first part of your question above but I'll address the gymnastics stuff here. For me personally I've found that if I don't intake a 250-500 calorie carb heavy meal(50% or so) preworkout i'll feel pretty weak during endurance related activities such as grappling, muay thai, etc. Lifting is really easy to pull off fasted and in fact I prefer it fasted but anything sport specific should be done with some food in your system one hour before you do it.


I'll say this again --- a food scale is the best investment you'll ever make. It's $25 for a fancy electronic one at Target. Nobody is good enough to eye food and get an accurate idea of the portions you're putting in your body.

nbzl fucked around with this message at Mar 27, 2011 around 19:10

pintxo
Oct 22, 2010

by Ozmaugh


I'm gonna try this meatball recipe for off days: http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/f...tino-Way-360130

Defiant Sally
May 6, 2004

Cum all over my mirrors just gettin off on my self maan, UUAOHH

WORSHIPPIN' this BIIG motherfucker.

*fingers dickhole*


Another question: How is this diet for people who prefer a lot of volume in their workouts, like medium weight 8-10 reps, 16 sets? Thats what I do right now and really enjoy it so if I can leave that be Im on board with this.

nbzl
Apr 5, 2002

Don't worry about the horse being blind, just load the wagon.


Defiant Sally posted:

Another question: How is this diet for people who prefer a lot of volume in their workouts, like medium weight 8-10 reps, 16 sets? Thats what I do right now and really enjoy it so if I can leave that be Im on board with this.

I use 5 different exercises with 2-3 sets per exercise and it's worked well. Only way to really gauge it for yourself is to try it.

Lobster Wiggle
Sep 21, 2004



Fasted training felt (oddly) a lot better than I thought it was going to. I started IF this weekend and today was my first fully fasted workout. Going into it I was seriously hungry and wasn't expecting much in the way of performance, but after I got moving and finished the first couple sets, I felt great.

Senor Panda
Oct 4, 2010

Abortions for some, miniature bamboo maracas for others


Been doing Leangains for about a month with poor results but admittedly this is due most likely to not eating clean although I have been strictly sticking to my 8 hour eating window. I've now decided to get serious. I bought a food scale and am keeping a log of all my food on fitday and hope I can finally get my bf% down. I'm currently cutting and have a question on running. Is it better to run fasted or during my feeding window? Martin recommends walking during fasting and seems pretty dead set against endurance running but I only run for about 3-4 miles so I'm conflicted as to what to do

tl;dr - Should I be performing short term (30-40min) running in a fasted or fed state if my aim is cutting?

Fontoyn
Aug 25, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post


I've been doing it for about a month with the result being strength gain and little no change in bodyfat, which is cool.

One question- I'm running out of things to make with protein powder... Any suggestions?

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007
Don't take advice from me, because I'm an idiot.

Senor Panda posted:

Been doing Leangains for about a month with poor results but admittedly this is due most likely to not eating clean although I have been strictly sticking to my 8 hour eating window.

Reality check here. A person having breakfast at 9AM and dinner at 5PM and doesn't snack in the evenings can be in an 8 hour "IF" window and not have a clue they are doing so, at 8 hours IF is a minor adjustment for most with limited benefits.

Personally, I'd look at reducing that window first (along with tracking as you have planned) to reduce the time you have to put food in your mouth, which will influence weight loss dramatically more than fasted/not fasted running.

Senor Panda
Oct 4, 2010

Abortions for some, miniature bamboo maracas for others


baquerd posted:

Reality check here. A person having breakfast at 9AM and dinner at 5PM and doesn't snack in the evenings can be in an 8 hour "IF" window and not have a clue they are doing so, at 8 hours IF is a minor adjustment for most with limited benefits.

Personally, I'd look at reducing that window first (along with tracking as you have planned) to reduce the time you have to put food in your mouth, which will influence weight loss dramatically more than fasted/not fasted running.

That's a good point that I hadnt really considered. My window is reduced from what it was but I have very limited hunger during my fasting so I could probably shorten my feeding time. Are most doing leangains on a 18/6 or 20/4 feeding schedule?

Smile
Dec 16, 2005


Senor Panda posted:

That's a good point that I hadnt really considered. My window is reduced from what it was but I have very limited hunger during my fasting so I could probably shorten my feeding time. Are most doing leangains on a 18/6 or 20/4 feeding schedule?

somewhere in between those two for me depending on when I get done at work or gym. I'm thinking of expanding the feeding window because I'm having trouble eating enough, and I am looking to either maintain weight or gain a slight bit.

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009


It depends on meal size and frequency for me. If I do three smaller meals, it's 16/8, if I do two, 18/6. My last meal of the day is generally the largest and I like eating dinner at around 7:00PM or 8:00PM. Some people talk about how great it is to go to bed full, but I don't like eating later than 3 hours before I go to sleep. Usually I break the fast around 2:00PM.

But fo realz, length of the window has pretty much zero effect on my weight loss. As far as I've noticed, I lose more weight when I eat fewer calories. I've started adding gigantic amounts of veggies to my meals, which really helps with staying full. When I first switched to the feeding window, I upped portion sizes for protein/carbs/fats but still kept regular portions of veggies. Just think about it as trying to cram a days worth of vegetables into a single meal and you'll end up being super full afterwards.

mobiusrage
Mar 26, 2007

Infinite loop of injuries

This was my meal tonight:
1.5 lb mashed potatoes with 1.5tbsp butter
1 lb boneless pork chops
1 bag of frozen peas
Couple tablespoons of homemade pesto

44g fat, 180g carbs, 138g protein, 1642 calories

And after another 1300 calories I could still eat more....on a 19/5 schedule

Edit: forgot pic

mobiusrage fucked around with this message at Mar 30, 2011 around 04:39

Supersheep
Nov 11, 2009


How do you guys manage to get enough calories on workout days? Today, I only managed to get around 2400 cal before my stomach felt like it was going to burst. I eat a small meal before working out, which leaves me with a 5 hour window to get close to 3000 calories.

Is chocolate milk the answer?

Hot Dog Hotline
Jul 24, 2004

Hello? Hello?

That should just be the new thread title. "Drink chocolate milk, get a 6-pack".

Defiant Sally
May 6, 2004

Cum all over my mirrors just gettin off on my self maan, UUAOHH

WORSHIPPIN' this BIIG motherfucker.

*fingers dickhole*


So with regards to working out fasted, is it a no-no to take a pre workout supp that has 9g of carbs in it? Is that enough to pull me out of the fast?


Also, since chocolate milk is like $2 more per gallon where I live can I just quaff fat free white milk instead?

MomJeans420
Mar 19, 2007

r-r-r-rape?

Martin has you taking 10g of BCAA before the workout, it seems like that'd be similar enough to taking 9g of carbs, although I've heard conflicting things on how much BCAAs spike your insulin. He says minimal, I thought Lyle McDonald said it's enough to make you no longer in a fasted state, and other people have different takes on it.

I don't think it really matters though, AFAIK the benefits to working out fasted are hypothetical / small enough that it doesn't really matter, intermittent fasting is just an effective diet for a lot of people because you can eat more of the foods you want and not feel like you're cutting back (especially for smaller people who don't get a lot of calories for the day). So I'd say if you workout better with the the pre-workout supplement, then just take it before you work out.

I'm pretty sure most of the science Martin goes on about on leangains.com is just to debunk the whole "you must eat every 3 hrs" thing, or that you'll have a horrible workout if you workout fasted.

pintxo
Oct 22, 2010

by Ozmaugh


Hot Dog Hotline posted:

That should just be the new thread title. "Drink chocolate milk, get a 6-pack".

The tastiest cutting log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...php?t=113288021

Uziel
Jun 28, 2004

Ask me about losing 200lbs, and becoming the Viking God of W&W.

Defiant Sally posted:

So with regards to working out fasted, is it a no-no to take a pre workout supp that has 9g of carbs in it? Is that enough to pull me out of the fast?


Also, since chocolate milk is like $2 more per gallon where I live can I just quaff fat free white milk instead?
Technically you wouldn't be working out fasted but it doesn't really matter, as there is a variant that doesn't include working out fasted. The magic of leangains is cutting back on your intake of overall calories but eating giant meals.

Fontoyn
Aug 25, 2009

by Y Kant Ozma Post


Uziel posted:

Technically you wouldn't be working out fasted but it doesn't really matter, as there is a variant that doesn't include working out fasted. The magic of leangains is cutting back on your intake of overall calories but eating giant meals.

I somehow found out how to eat a ridiculous amount of calories during my 5hr eating window, and I'm actually pretty interested to see if I gain any fat with this. I've always felt iffy with IFing because of all the 6 meals a day talks I've grown up with.

Never intentionally tried to eat more than 2000calories a day, looking forward to the weight gain (hopefully).

Supersheep
Nov 11, 2009


Is there any rule on how soon after a workout you have to eat? I typically spend 30 minutes getting home from the gym, and don't get to eat until 40-50 minutes after I've finished there. Does it matter?

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007
Don't take advice from me, because I'm an idiot.

Fontoyn posted:

I somehow found out how to eat a ridiculous amount of calories during my 5hr eating window

This is fairly simple to do. Now try doing it low carb and all of a sudden you have a mountain to climb (or slide down if losing weight).

nbzl
Apr 5, 2002

Don't worry about the horse being blind, just load the wagon.


Supersheep posted:

Is there any rule on how soon after a workout you have to eat? I typically spend 30 minutes getting home from the gym, and don't get to eat until 40-50 minutes after I've finished there. Does it matter?

It doesn't matter. I wouldn't go more than a couple hours without BCAAs at least though.

nbzl
Apr 5, 2002

Don't worry about the horse being blind, just load the wagon.


nbzl posted:



Dinner last night. It was 2000~ calories or so.

Okay so I've gotten a couple PM's regarding what made this monstrosity so I figured I'd post my recipe.

The crust is a whole wheat one they sell at the local grocery store. The rest of the ingredients are as follows:

1lb 93/7 beef
3/4 cup sauce
200g~ low fat mozzarella cheese
150g of chopped bell peppers, onions, mushrooms

I think that's it. Preparation is:

1) brown the beef, then cook it in 3/8 of the sauce for about 5min on low heat.
2) put the rest of the sauce on the pizza
3) add half the cheese, add the beef, onions, etc. then the rest of the cheese
4) bake for 8-10min whatever the package recommends. I think it's around 400-450
5) enjoy

Smile
Dec 16, 2005


I think I found my dinner idea for tomorrow. that looks so good!

reduced fat corned beef hash mixed with a bunch of egg whites makes a really easy and delicious dinner too. a bit much salt though

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Hot Dog Hotline
Jul 24, 2004

Hello? Hello?

The thing about those cans of low fat hash:

They actually just give you a lesser amount in the can as the regular hash. It says right on the back "The difference is made up with water" and if you look at the calories per gram in the container, it's actually the same as the regular can of hash.

So, instead of purchasing something with more meat (as one might have been inclined to believe) and less fatty meat, you're actually just purchasing a can of the same poo poo, just minus food and plus water. Don't ever buy the low fat stuff!!!

Hot Dog Hotline fucked around with this message at Mar 31, 2011 around 17:42

Smile
Dec 16, 2005


I see the note about difference made up with water, but the protein is the same 21g amount per 236g serving. It doesn't make sense to me that would be true if the meat were being replaced with water

Only registered members can see post attachments!

mobn
May 23, 2005

by Ozmaugh


Smile posted:

I see the note about difference made up with water, but the protein is the same 21g amount per 236g serving. It doesn't make sense to me that would be true if the meat were being replaced with water



The water makes up part of the weight a serving.

Cioran
Jan 14, 2011


I've been hearing for years that eating more than 30-40 grams of protein a meal/hour(or whatever) is wasted. But you guy's meals seem to violate that pretty hard. Is the 30 grams an hour myth bullshit?

Zugzwang
Jan 2, 2005

I look like you wanna look, I fuck like you wanna fuck, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.


Cioran posted:

I've been hearing for years that eating more than 30-40 grams of protein a meal/hour(or whatever) is wasted. But you guy's meals seem to violate that pretty hard. Is the 30 grams an hour myth bullshit?
Yes.

Senor Panda
Oct 4, 2010

Abortions for some, miniature bamboo maracas for others


Cioran posted:

I've been hearing for years that eating more than 30-40 grams of protein a meal/hour(or whatever) is wasted. But you guy's meals seem to violate that pretty hard. Is the 30 grams an hour myth bullshit?

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/to...s-debunked.html

Martin talks more in depth on this here if you'd like to read more. It's number 5

Lobster Wiggle
Sep 21, 2004



How do you guys measure the calorie content of bone-in cuts of meat? It's pretty straightforward math with a boneless cut, but I'm not really sure how I should measure the amount of steak I actually got off a 1-lb t-bone.

Hypnolobster
Apr 12, 2007

What this sausage party needs is a big dollop of ketchup! Too bad I didn't make any.


Lobster Wiggle posted:

How do you guys measure the calorie content of bone-in cuts of meat? It's pretty straightforward math with a boneless cut, but I'm not really sure how I should measure the amount of steak I actually got off a 1-lb t-bone.

Eat it and weigh what's left.

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fart daddy smooth
Sep 7, 2004


Lobster Wiggle posted:

How do you guys measure the calorie content of bone-in cuts of meat? It's pretty straightforward math with a boneless cut, but I'm not really sure how I should measure the amount of steak I actually got off a 1-lb t-bone.
if you really want to.... cook it, weigh it, eat, weigh what's left, subtract?



breaten..

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