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coolskillrex remix
Jan 1, 2007

gorsh

jonathan posted:

adding 3db will not double the volume. Adding 3db requires twice the power. I have no idea if adding a second sub doubles the volume or just adds 3db though. Generally people with multiple subs aren't trying to go for louder bass, they're trying to get into the below 20hz range. Most 10" subs can already go well above an unbalanced sound and go "too loud". It's the setups with the big wattage 15" or dual 12" type setups that go really low.

If you're looking at $400 range subs, don't forget the Emotiva 12" !


http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm

Yeah, i was wrong about doubling volume. My point remains that adding a second identical sub adds 3db, but adding a port does the same thing. The ultra 12" is nice but it doesnt really belong with the $600 subs.

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duckfarts
Jul 2, 2010

~ shameful ~




Anybody have any comments on JBL speakers? I'm trying to get Pioneer mid-range stuff or Paradigm here, but selection is limited, and most shops have odd local brands for speakers.

Ninja edit: I'm trying to set up a home theater setup for a smallerish living room, bookshelf speakers being the largest size I can go(can't do towers/floor units), primarily for movies, TV, and gaming.

Doc Spratley
Mar 4, 2007
Miskatonic U. Alumni

duckfarts posted:

Anybody have any comments on JBL speakers? I'm trying to get Pioneer mid-range stuff or Paradigm here, but selection is limited, and most shops have odd local brands for speakers.

Ninja edit: I'm trying to set up a home theater setup for a smallerish living room, bookshelf speakers being the largest size I can go(can't do towers/floor units), primarily for movies, TV, and gaming.

JBL has a full line from entry level right up to fan-total-tastic. I would love to have 5 of the LSR6332 for multichannel.


On a more realistically affordable level, I quite like the L820 4-way



I've had a pair of the Control 1 monitors since the mid 90s, quite robust and nice sound.


Overall JBL is usually good stuff, keep on eye on the Harmon Ebay site, you can snag some sweet deals.

Also, you can order those new Pioneer speakers direct if you can't find them locally.

Also consider PSB as an option to Paradigm, you can find psb online a bit easier at places like DMC or Saturday Audio

duckfarts
Jul 2, 2010

~ shameful ~




Another question: both the Denon AVR-1911 and Pioneer VSX-921 are available here and look suitable for my setup. The Pioneer one seems to have more inputs, but are there any other important differences between them? Anybody use one of these now or before?

Edit: I'm now narrowing my speakers down to Pioneer S-31 series bookshelves and center, Paradigm Atom Minis and CC-190 center, or PSB Image B4s and a C4 center, and a Pioneer VSX-921 as the receiver(no sub yet). One of the major differences between them is the warranty: Pioneers get 1 year, Paradigms get 5 years, and PSBs get 10 years.

Question: What exactly can go wrong with a speaker that requires warranty service? I'm used to them just being dumb devices that you plug wires into, and they just work. If you blow them out, that's your own fault for trying to go retarded loud and I don't think that's covered under warranty. The only thing I can think of is if they just go dead because maybe some connection burned out or something. Is this a common thing? Is it worthwhile to prefer the PSBs over the Pioneers because of the warranty? (over here, it's looking like $1000ish VS $1800ish for the speaker sets, and yes I get raped on price thanks a lot Taiwan)

duckfarts fucked around with this message at Jul 26, 2011 around 08:39

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009


I'm looking for some basic bookshelves to use as computer speakers, so I'm looking for something cheap good for near-field listening, and was considering something like Paradigm Micro Monitors and a T-amp.

However, my local hi-fi shop has some new Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 450 on clearance for $297 for a pair. I contacted them to make sure that was per pair and not per speaker, as I've never seen those on sale for under $500. Would a 15 watt per channel T-amp driving these be a complete joke? I don't need loud, just looking for better sound than I could get from active computer speakers in the same price range.

I haven't been in to listen to them yet, and if they're not sealed I'll have to reconsider as I don't have room to put the speakers several feet from the wall as ported speakers need. I'm just curious if nice speakers plus a joke of a T-amp would be a horrible idea and if I should find a vintage amplifier for them.

Amazon page for the speakers in question: http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Te...k/dp/B000UW07MO

http://www.definitivetech.com/produ...itor%20450#More

Doc Spratley
Mar 4, 2007
Miskatonic U. Alumni

duckfarts posted:

Another question: both the Denon AVR-1911 and Pioneer VSX-921 are available here and look suitable for my setup. The Pioneer one seems to have more inputs, but are there any other important differences between them? Anybody use one of these now or before?

Edit: I'm now narrowing my speakers down to Pioneer S-31 series bookshelves and center, Paradigm Atom Minis and CC-190 center, or PSB Image B4s and a C4 center, and a Pioneer VSX-921 as the receiver(no sub yet). One of the major differences between them is the warranty: Pioneers get 1 year, Paradigms get 5 years, and PSBs get 10 years.

Question: What exactly can go wrong with a speaker that requires warranty service? I'm used to them just being dumb devices that you plug wires into, and they just work. If you blow them out, that's your own fault for trying to go retarded loud and I don't think that's covered under warranty. The only thing I can think of is if they just go dead because maybe some connection burned out or something. Is this a common thing? Is it worthwhile to prefer the PSBs over the Pioneers because of the warranty? (over here, it's looking like $1000ish VS $1800ish for the speaker sets, and yes I get raped on price thanks a lot Taiwan)

Hi Duck, I would not let the warranty period be the main determining factor. As you surmise, there is not much to go wrong with speakers, providing that you don't abuse them. Any of those choices will sound great.

Doc Spratley
Mar 4, 2007
Miskatonic U. Alumni

Weinertron posted:

I'm looking for some basic bookshelves to use as computer speakers, so I'm looking for something cheap good for near-field listening, and was considering something like Paradigm Micro Monitors and a T-amp.

However, my local hi-fi shop has some new Definitive Technology StudioMonitor 450 on clearance for $297 for a pair. I contacted them to make sure that was per pair and not per speaker, as I've never seen those on sale for under $500. Would a 15 watt per channel T-amp driving these be a complete joke? I don't need loud, just looking for better sound than I could get from active computer speakers in the same price range.

I haven't been in to listen to them yet, and if they're not sealed I'll have to reconsider as I don't have room to put the speakers several feet from the wall as ported speakers need. I'm just curious if nice speakers plus a joke of a T-amp would be a horrible idea and if I should find a vintage amplifier for them.

Amazon page for the speakers in question: http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Te...k/dp/B000UW07MO

http://www.definitivetech.com/produ...itor%20450#More

Those DT 450's look nice, I love the big 10" passive tucked in the sides, it's like Clark Kent pulling open his shirt.



I notice the efficiency is a little lowish at 90db

Sensitivity :90 dB
Recommended Associated Amplifier Power :20 Ė 225 watts

Might be best to consider the slightly higher powered t-amps such as the dayton dta-100a?

duckfarts
Jul 2, 2010

~ shameful ~




Is the auto-calibration included in receivers all you need to do? I'm piecing out my system with a seller/installer(going with a Pioneer VSX-921), and they want to charge about $60 for "balancing the system and speaker levels for your room". However, I thought that's what the auto-calibration and mic thingy included with the reciever was for in the first place.

Am I right in thinking that the system balancing can go suck a dick along with the proposed $30 HDMI cables they suggested? Or is there something more to tuning a setup than that?

Hob_Gadling
Jul 6, 2007

"I am angry, angry about alternative gender identity elves!"

duckfarts posted:

Is the auto-calibration included in receivers all you need to do?

After setting the system correctly up, yes.

proton
Dec 23, 2005
fuck if your leg broke bitch, hop up on your good foot

duckfarts posted:

Is the auto-calibration included in receivers all you need to do?

I generally used the auto-calibration to start, then made my own adjustments afterward. I found with my Denon that the bass settings were absurdly innaccurate.

After doing it a few times I didnt use it at all. Your own ears are far more discerning than a cheap microphone.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005



duckfarts posted:

Is the auto-calibration included in receivers all you need to do? I'm piecing out my system with a seller/installer(going with a Pioneer VSX-921), and they want to charge about $60 for "balancing the system and speaker levels for your room". However, I thought that's what the auto-calibration and mic thingy included with the reciever was for in the first place.

Am I right in thinking that the system balancing can go suck a dick along with the proposed $30 HDMI cables they suggested? Or is there something more to tuning a setup than that?

For $60 they won't be doing anything more than manually adjusting the levels with a decibel meter. Your receiver does that, plus a hell of a lot more. If your room isn't too complex, it will do a good job of calibration.

film_critic
Jul 23, 2007

We don't go dancing at the club with babies. We go baby clubbing.


I lost the mic to calibrate my HK AVR247, is there anyway to order a replacement or can i use some sort of generic mic to calibrate? I finally got my system all hooked up and i want it to sound as nice as possible, though i think its pretty nice as is right now. Polk 60's, cs2, BIC h100 sub, and 2 klipsch bookshelf surrounds.

Hob_Gadling
Jul 6, 2007

"I am angry, angry about alternative gender identity elves!"

film_critic posted:

I lost the mic to calibrate my HK AVR247, is there anyway to order a replacement or can i use some sort of generic mic to calibrate?

Try asking Harman Kardon directly. I'm pretty sure those mics are available.

Ammanas
Jul 17, 2005

Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

Just ordered a 920-K, Monitor 70s and CS2. Will post a review when they all get here!

RaoulDuke12
Nov 9, 2004

The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but to those who see it coming and jump aside.

Any recommendations for a VERY slim center channel bar? My TV has to sit on a fireplace, so elevating it any higher is kind of out of the question, as it's already quite high (about 4 feet at the base).

TV is a Panasonic Viera GT25, so it's only got about 4 inches of height at the base before the screen starts, so if I got something like the Polk cs20 it would cover up a good 3 inches of the TV unless I elevated it.

Hob_Gadling
Jul 6, 2007

"I am angry, angry about alternative gender identity elves!"

RaoulDuke12 posted:

Any recommendations for a VERY slim center channel bar?

Depends a lot on what you have for other speakers. A couple that come in mind are


Paradigm Cinema CC (4 1/2")
Definitive Technology Mythos Seven (4 1/16")
Yamaha NS-C225 (3-11/16")
Wharfedale Diamond 9.CC (~4")

RaoulDuke12
Nov 9, 2004

The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but to those who see it coming and jump aside.

I have the Polk studio 70s and a psw-10 through a Panasonic 1020-k. Thanks, that'll give me a great starting point! (unless you have any further recs based on that info).

ADHDan
Sep 22, 2006

A genuinely kind goon who goes out of his way to help others. These traits can't be diminished by the fact that he actually likes Minneapolis.

I have a question regarding mixing and matching speakers (same manufacturer). Iíve got a 5.1 setup through a Marantz NR1501 slimline receiver (http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/P...roductId=NR1501). Currently, Iím running a KEF iQ60C center channel (http://www.kef.com/gb/loudspeakers/q-series/iq60), two old but quite functional KEF q50 tower speakers (http://www.kef.com/history/en/1990_1/q_series/q50.asp) for front left/right, and two KEF KHT 5000 speakers (http://www.kef.com/gb/surroundsound/kht/5000) for surround left/right. Iím also running a 12Ē BIC America sub.

I have two extra KHT 5000s that I was thinking of using for front left/right instead of the q50s. Does anyone have any sense of whether Iím better off sticking with the tower speakers instead? The KHT 5000s come as a 5.1 package bundle (literally 5 of the same speaker and one sub), so I assume that the 5000s will be perfectly functional as front speakers, but I donít know whether Iíll get better sound with the larger q50s. Or, on the other hand, will I get better sound from four identical speakers plus the upgraded center speaker? Finally, how serious of a problem is it that the q50s are 6 ohm impedance, but I think my receiver should be used with 8 ohm speakers?

(I thought about setting up all of these speakers into a 7.1 system but I just donít have room. Maybe someday...)

duckfarts
Jul 2, 2010

~ shameful ~




(put this in the Quick Audio Questions Megathread on accident; moved here)

So, I've been listening to a couple different kinds of small speakers lately:

M&K K5
5 of these speakers were placed for a 5.1 setup, and I watched some Kung Fu Panda and the surround was fantastic, crisp with really good sound placement and clarity. When I tried listening to music though, it wasn't so hot; some kid singing opera ended up kind of shrill and muddy, and it wasn't clear.

Paradigm Atom Monitors
Due to the sales dude being retarded, I only heard this in a 2.1 setup sort of rushed together. It sounded good and strong with a warm feel, but you always got the impression that you were listening to something from speakers. This was after listening to a setup that used them as back speakers and used Monitor 7s for the front speakers, which sounded lifeless, and even asking the guy to turn up the volume, there was no feeling for movies or music. I don't know if it was settings or the guy just didn't know how to crank up the system to show it off, but I was wholly unimpressed(every other setup on this page sounded better, including the Atom Monitor 2.1 setup). WTF.

Focal Dome System
This is a 5.1 surround system with small satellites. It sounded really good for 5.1 movie stuff, and had also had excellent sound placement, though not as crisp as the M&K K5s. The center channel(well, satellite in the center) was a bit obvious though when people were speaking; it didn't seem to blend as well I think it should've. Music was kind of blah, and came off kind of lifeless; you wouldn't be able to get that feel of the instrument when listening to guitars or violins. Didn't seem like a bad system for a satellite based setup though.

Paradigm Millenia One
These are more 5.1 surround satellites with a small form factor. These sounded great, and were far better than the Focal Dome speakers, and yet they're cheaper(well, here; dunno what US prices are). For movies, things came out much clearer, and things sounded more "open" and less muffled. Music was also better, and I could start to pick out instruments individually(could be better, but it wasn't bad).

While listening to the Millenia Ones, the guy had to hastily connect them, and while watching movies, he kept flipping through different modes(Pioneer receiver, had modes for different movie genres or something), which changed the sound drastically, which is leading me to believe that a lot of these people can't loving set up a system to show it off, IE haven't tuned the system to sound great(which I might be able to/have to do). This is annoying, because this is the most recent setup I heard, and now this tosses the other speaker auditions in the air because it's harder to tell if those speakers would be much better if the sound was just tweaked. Also, he used a PDR-8 sub(apparently) instead of the Millenia Sub(which is loving expensive), but I couldn't tell whether it was on or not, and it sounded like all the bass was coming from the satellites(and not low enough and with zero strength/force). There was a part at the beginning of a Transporter 3 clip(yeah, it's on a common clip Blu-Ray the shops have) that starts with some bowwwwwwww buh-bowwwwww bass music, but you couldn't really hear that from the setup. I asked him to make sure the sub was on, and after turning something up, there was bass shakin', but it was farty/flabby and wasn't defined at all. I couldn't tell if it was due to lovely settings or if that was just how the sub sounded.

In any case, I'm looking between the Millenia Ones and a Pioneer S-31 bookshelf setup. The Millenia Ones because they sound great, and the Pioneer S-31s because they cost half as much, but I can't audition them right now(it's hard because I think they're order only around here).

(this has already been updated; see below)
Question: I'm going back to try listening to the PDR-8 again, but are there any cheaper subs you'd guys recommend? Brands I have access to there are Paradigm, Pioneer, JBL, and Yamaha(you don't have to match sub to speakers, right?). I don't need to shake the room(which isn't even that big), but I would like to hear what I'm supposed to hear for that frequency of bass, and to provide a bit of force when watching movies or playing games.

Non-edit: I'm planning on using a Pioneer VSX-920 or VSX-921 if that changes anything.

Update: I went back to the store the next day, and this time, a different guy was able to do sub adjustment properly and while not pant-making GBS threads or rear end-kicking, the PDR-8 sub was decent, and could blend in with the rest of the sound pretty well. Looks like I'm going with a set of Millenia Ones and a PDR-8; I'll post pics and impressions whenever installation and stuff gets done.

Ammanas
Jul 17, 2005

Voltes V: "Laser swooooooooord!"

Im enjoying my Monitor70s and am toying with the idea of adding some bookshelf speakers as rears for a 5 speaker setup. Any reason to prefer Monitor40s vs the $30 cheaper Monitor30s?

coolskillrex remix
Jan 1, 2007

gorsh

duckfarts posted:

(put this in the Quick Audio Questions Megathread on accident; moved here)

So, I've been listening to a couple different kinds of small speakers lately:

M&K K5
5 of these speakers were placed for a 5.1 setup, and I watched some Kung Fu Panda and the surround was fantastic, crisp with really good sound placement and clarity. When I tried listening to music though, it wasn't so hot; some kid singing opera ended up kind of shrill and muddy, and it wasn't clear.

Paradigm Atom Monitors
Due to the sales dude being retarded, I only heard this in a 2.1 setup sort of rushed together. It sounded good and strong with a warm feel, but you always got the impression that you were listening to something from speakers. This was after listening to a setup that used them as back speakers and used Monitor 7s for the front speakers, which sounded lifeless, and even asking the guy to turn up the volume, there was no feeling for movies or music. I don't know if it was settings or the guy just didn't know how to crank up the system to show it off, but I was wholly unimpressed(every other setup on this page sounded better, including the Atom Monitor 2.1 setup). WTF.

Focal Dome System
This is a 5.1 surround system with small satellites. It sounded really good for 5.1 movie stuff, and had also had excellent sound placement, though not as crisp as the M&K K5s. The center channel(well, satellite in the center) was a bit obvious though when people were speaking; it didn't seem to blend as well I think it should've. Music was kind of blah, and came off kind of lifeless; you wouldn't be able to get that feel of the instrument when listening to guitars or violins. Didn't seem like a bad system for a satellite based setup though.

Paradigm Millenia One
These are more 5.1 surround satellites with a small form factor. These sounded great, and were far better than the Focal Dome speakers, and yet they're cheaper(well, here; dunno what US prices are). For movies, things came out much clearer, and things sounded more "open" and less muffled. Music was also better, and I could start to pick out instruments individually(could be better, but it wasn't bad).

While listening to the Millenia Ones, the guy had to hastily connect them, and while watching movies, he kept flipping through different modes(Pioneer receiver, had modes for different movie genres or something), which changed the sound drastically, which is leading me to believe that a lot of these people can't loving set up a system to show it off, IE haven't tuned the system to sound great(which I might be able to/have to do). This is annoying, because this is the most recent setup I heard, and now this tosses the other speaker auditions in the air because it's harder to tell if those speakers would be much better if the sound was just tweaked. Also, he used a PDR-8 sub(apparently) instead of the Millenia Sub(which is loving expensive), but I couldn't tell whether it was on or not, and it sounded like all the bass was coming from the satellites(and not low enough and with zero strength/force). There was a part at the beginning of a Transporter 3 clip(yeah, it's on a common clip Blu-Ray the shops have) that starts with some bowwwwwwww buh-bowwwwww bass music, but you couldn't really hear that from the setup. I asked him to make sure the sub was on, and after turning something up, there was bass shakin', but it was farty/flabby and wasn't defined at all. I couldn't tell if it was due to lovely settings or if that was just how the sub sounded.

In any case, I'm looking between the Millenia Ones and a Pioneer S-31 bookshelf setup. The Millenia Ones because they sound great, and the Pioneer S-31s because they cost half as much, but I can't audition them right now(it's hard because I think they're order only around here).

(this has already been updated; see below)
Question: I'm going back to try listening to the PDR-8 again, but are there any cheaper subs you'd guys recommend? Brands I have access to there are Paradigm, Pioneer, JBL, and Yamaha(you don't have to match sub to speakers, right?). I don't need to shake the room(which isn't even that big), but I would like to hear what I'm supposed to hear for that frequency of bass, and to provide a bit of force when watching movies or playing games.

Non-edit: I'm planning on using a Pioneer VSX-920 or VSX-921 if that changes anything.

Update: I went back to the store the next day, and this time, a different guy was able to do sub adjustment properly and while not pant-making GBS threads or rear end-kicking, the PDR-8 sub was decent, and could blend in with the rest of the sound pretty well. Looks like I'm going with a set of Millenia Ones and a PDR-8; I'll post pics and impressions whenever installation and stuff gets done.

Order it yet? if not i have advice.

duckfarts
Jul 2, 2010

~ shameful ~




coolskillrex remix posted:

Order it yet? if not i have advice.
I'm in the middle of it, but I can still adjust it probably.

coolskillrex remix
Jan 1, 2007

gorsh

First, paradigm subwoofers suck when it comes to bang for your buck. Theres zero reason to get one with the deals that internet direct sites offer you (depending on what country youre in)

To be honest im a little confused as to the purpose of this setup, do you want small speakers for aesthetic purposes? is this apartment or something and you figure smaller = less noise? What size are you aiming for exactly?

is this just a 2.1 setup?

duckfarts
Jul 2, 2010

~ shameful ~




coolskillrex remix posted:

First, paradigm subwoofers suck when it comes to bang for your buck. Theres zero reason to get one with the deals that internet direct sites offer you (depending on what country youre in)

To be honest im a little confused as to the purpose of this setup, do you want small speakers for aesthetic purposes? is this apartment or something and you figure smaller = less noise? What size are you aiming for exactly?

is this just a 2.1 setup?
Taiwan; I don't get Internet deals. This will be going into a small apartment living room with a 42" tv for 5.1 for movies and games, and also music occasionally. Due to the size/layout of the room, I can't use floorstanders, so bookshelf is the maximum size. Satellites would be nice for size and aesthetics, but not a requirement.

jonathan
Jul 3, 2005



Ammanas posted:

Im enjoying my Monitor70s and am toying with the idea of adding some bookshelf speakers as rears for a 5 speaker setup. Any reason to prefer Monitor40s vs the $30 cheaper Monitor30s?

I looked at the specs. They list the sensitivity of both at 89db. The 40's go lower by 10hz. Chances are you'll be using the receiver's bass management/crossover to route anything below 80hz or so to the sub anyways. Personally I would get the 40's because they look better, and will probably sound better at louder volumes, and will have a better resale. I would assume they would give off better mids as well, so you might end up with a bit of a warmer sound when listening to music.

Turb
Oct 15, 2004


About to be upgrading my whole sound system from a last generation huge shelf system. I play mostly music some TV and movies all from my desktop computer. I have a tendency to play music of many genres for long periods of time at a very high volume. Id like to keep my budget around 800 for a 2.0 or 2.1 setup and I dont mind coming back for the sub later to get quality stuff up front.

Right now I'm thinking the pioneer vsx 821 paired with polk monitor70s this puts me around 620 or so. The monitor70's are bi amp able and are rated for up to 275 watts while the receiver only puts out 110 per channel.

Is it possible to run the receivers rear channel outputs to the front speakers second input while running in stereo?

If not would I be able to pick up a 100 watt per 2 channel raw amplifier and work that in the system to bring 210 watts to each speaker using this receiver?

Would this accomplish a setup capable of safely blasting music for long periods of time?

Should I be worried that all sound would be transferred via a silly headphones audio jack to RCA connection and are there options of getting a better sound card that would have a digital output?

What kind of budget but huge sub should I be looking for to keep pace with this setup?

Hob_Gadling
Jul 6, 2007

"I am angry, angry about alternative gender identity elves!"

Turb posted:

Id like to keep my budget around 800 for a 2.0 or 2.1 setup and I dont mind coming back for the sub later to get quality stuff up front.

If you are going stereo, get a stereo receiver. The main advantages of AV receivers are multi-channel setups, multiple sources and video passthrough, all of which are wasted on a 2.0 computer-only system (I take it you're watching movies from your computer monitor). It's worth it if you want to expand to 5.1 on a later date or use it in a home theater setup or something like that.

One example of a stereo receiver you could consider. You can bi-wire the speakers with this. About the maximum I'd spend for a stereo amp in your case would be for a Marantz PM5004, and even then it'd make more sense to spend more on speakers and less on amp.

quote:

Should I be worried that all sound would be transferred via a silly headphones audio jack to RCA connection and are there options of getting a better sound card that would have a digital output?

Get an USB DAC if you're worried about the sound quality. You need to do the digital to analog conversion somewhere: in practice I haven't noticed a difference between doing it in receiver or (reasonable quality) DAC.

What I'd do is try the setup with 3,5mm to RCA first. If you get electric interference then get an external USB soundcard.

quote:

What kind of budget but huge sub should I be looking for to keep pace with this setup?

Unless you're dead set on getting a lot of bass, you'd be better off by investing into speakers that can go lower. Music is mostly a 2-channel deal.

Hob_Gadling fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2011 around 19:00

coolskillrex remix
Jan 1, 2007

gorsh

duckfarts posted:

Taiwan; I don't get Internet deals. This will be going into a small apartment living room with a 42" tv for 5.1 for movies and games, and also music occasionally. Due to the size/layout of the room, I can't use floorstanders, so bookshelf is the maximum size. Satellites would be nice for size and aesthetics, but not a requirement.

That kind of screws things up.. paradigm atom monitors is what i would get, the bigger the speaker the better as it will be able to play more music without requiring a sub (meaning it can be crossed over lower). thats my rule of thumb.

I would try to listen to monitor audio RX1, or dali ikons though as well...

coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2011 around 23:55

Turb
Oct 15, 2004


Hob_Gadling posted:

If you are going stereo, get a stereo receiver. The main advantages of AV receivers are multi-channel setups, multiple sources and video passthrough, all of which are wasted on a 2.0 computer-only system (I take it you're watching movies from your computer monitor). It's worth it if you want to expand to 5.1 on a later date or use it in a home theater setup or something like that.

One example of a stereo receiver you could consider. You can bi-wire the speakers with this. About the maximum I'd spend for a stereo amp in your case would be for a Marantz PM5004, and even then it'd make more sense to spend more on speakers and less on amp.

Seems to me(unless I am missing something which is very possible) this would supply less power for a higher price than the pioneer and I will almost surely be going home theater at some point in the time I plan on owning this setup(sorry should have specified)

quote:

Get an USB DAC if you're worried about the sound quality. You need to do the digital to analog conversion somewhere: in practice I haven't noticed a difference between doing it in receiver or (reasonable quality) DAC.

What I'd do is try the setup with 3,5mm to RCA first. If you get electric interference then get an external USB soundcard.

Ok cool

quote:

Unless you're dead set on getting a lot of bass, you'd be better off by investing into speakers that can go lower. Music is mostly a 2-channel deal.

I am very much set on a lot of bass, I do love to throw dance partys!

Any help on the other questions or product suggestions greatly appreciated

RaoulDuke12
Nov 9, 2004

The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but to those who see it coming and jump aside.

How far is too far to run HDMI and speaker cables before I'm starting to worry about delay issues?

Basically, my wife HATES where our media cabinet is, as it's right next to the fireplace and looks weird. The problem is, unless I shelf the media gear IN the fireplace (which I've thought about since we'll never use it), then I have to put it all the way in the dining room, which would mean I would need to run about 30 feet of HDMi and between 30 and 50 feet to each speaker.

Not to mention figure out some way to transmit infrared remote signals if I don't want to aim the remote over the couch every time I have to change channels.

Rrrrgh. Girls.

Hob_Gadling
Jul 6, 2007

"I am angry, angry about alternative gender identity elves!"

RaoulDuke12 posted:

How far is too far to run HDMI and speaker cables before I'm starting to worry about delay issues?

You might want to read this.

coolskillrex remix
Jan 1, 2007

gorsh

RaoulDuke12 posted:

How far is too far to run HDMI and speaker cables before I'm starting to worry about delay issues?

Basically, my wife HATES where our media cabinet is, as it's right next to the fireplace and looks weird. The problem is, unless I shelf the media gear IN the fireplace (which I've thought about since we'll never use it), then I have to put it all the way in the dining room, which would mean I would need to run about 30 feet of HDMi and between 30 and 50 feet to each speaker.

Not to mention figure out some way to transmit infrared remote signals if I don't want to aim the remote over the couch every time I have to change channels.

Rrrrgh. Girls.

Never any amount of feet youll encounter in a house. ever

for IR could mount a mirror somewhere on your wall, or just get an RF remote system.

RaoulDuke12
Nov 9, 2004

The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but to those who see it coming and jump aside.

^^^ I did not know this RF system thing existed, but apparently there's an adapter for the harmony 900, which I have.

So does the RF box just repeat signals in IR near the equipment? As in, no further setup required besides that?


Hob_Gadling posted:

You might want to read this.

perfect. That was the information I could not find.

coolskillrex remix
Jan 1, 2007

gorsh

Yeah pretty sure you just point it at the devices and it should work. Not 100% positive though

Baddog
May 12, 2001



Hob_Gadling posted:

You might want to read this.

Pretty timely, I'm just hitting a problem with my setup where I can get everything through just fine except for 1080p. It will blink black for a few seconds once every couple minutes. 1080i and below works fine.

So doesn't seem like a handshake issue between the equipment (ps3->denon 2112->sharp 70). PS3 right to tv on another cable works fine. So its either the receiver or the cable, and I think I'm just running up against the limit you want to use cheap cables. 5 foot to the receiver, 20 foot through the wall, and I had to get another 5 foot coupler. I need to get my hands on shorter cables instead of those 5 footers on either end I guess.

Hob_Gadling
Jul 6, 2007

"I am angry, angry about alternative gender identity elves!"

Turb posted:

Seems to me(unless I am missing something which is very possible) this would supply less power for a higher price than the pioneer and I will almost surely be going home theater at some point in the time I plan on owning this setup(sorry should have specified)

If you're going to get a home theater setup in the near future, then an AV receiver makes a lot more sense.

Power is an interesting thing. You know how music has loud and quiet parts, right? Even if you don't touch the volume knob the amp requires a different amount of watts to power the speakers. Some manufacturers report "average maximum" per channel: as in, the average watts per channel used for a given duration when you max the amp out. Others report "maximum maximum" WPC, which is the peak amount of power used by a channel in any given moment no matter how short. Think of a drum beat: it uses a lot of power on the moment of strike and considerably less at every other moment in time.

In addition to the above, there's a thing called Total Harmonic Distortion. Wikipedia has a pretty deep article on it, if you're really interested. The point of THD is to measure how much the signal is distorted when it's amplified. 0.1% is really good, 1% is audible and 10% is at the limit of wanting to listen to something. Less THD means better signal quality. THD is meaningless without watts reported: 1% THD @ 100 WPC sounds better when cranked up than 1% THD @ 10 WPC.

If you want more things to calculate, you can look up speaker impedance and start figuring out how it will affect power draw (and thus effective THD) when you go from 2 to 5 speakers. And then there are things like cable resistance, speaker sensitivity, SPL and so on, not to mention that different brands simply sound different due to different technical solutions and so on. The technical side of audio systems is fascinating and one of the reasons some people go nuts over it.

Long story short: this is why I always, always recommend you listen for yourself. If you want a system for music, go stereo. If you want a system for movies or games, go with a home theater receiver.

Look up what coolskillrex remix said a little earlier on subwoofers. A pair of nice bookshelfs, good subwoofer and AV receiver would make for a good HT starting point if you want to go that route. I don't personally like heavy bass music, so I can't really help you there.

A few of your earlier questions:

quote:

1. Is it possible to run the receivers rear channel outputs to the front speakers second input while running in stereo?

2. If not would I be able to pick up a 100 watt per 2 channel raw amplifier and work that in the system to bring 210 watts to each speaker using this receiver?

3. Would this accomplish a setup capable of safely blasting music for long periods of time?

1. No, but you don't need to. You have two sets of outputs for front channels, which can be used for bi-wiring.

2. You can do that also, but separates are probably not worth it unless you upgrade your speakers significantly. The Pioneer receiver should have quite enough power for the speakers as is.

3. Yes. You can hear when you're playing too loudly: the sound will be very distorted.

As to what you should buy: have you visited your local hi-fi shop and listened to what they have? Bring your own CD or two.

TheChimney
Jan 31, 2005



Cross posted from the general question thread.....

In the next few months I plan on putting together a 2 channel setup with my computer as the source, but I am confused about the topic of DACs.

What kind of specifications do I need to be looking at?

How important are they to the overall listening experience (is there a certain price that there is no point in going over)?

Lastly, what kind of models/brands should I be looking at?

Edit: Maybe this would make more sense in the home audio system thread.

Baddog
May 12, 2001



Haven't got everything set up perfect quite yet, but I'm pretty drat happy with the sound so far, thanks to everyone in this thread. Ended up with:

Infinity Classia system for fronts/center/rear
Snell OH-S7 ceiling surround
Rythmik FV12
Denon 2112

I haven't wanted to really push the sub yet, but I got some games going last night and it was already ridiculous. Music is really nice with those fronts. 1080p is crapping out on me, so haven't gotten into a movie yet....

The audyssey multi EQ setup adjusted the volume for the sub really low though for some reason, or maybe I just like a lot of bass. I like the automatic EQ'ing of all the speakers, but the volume balancing/distance adjustments just seemed a bit off in general, and bad for the subwoofer.

Hob_Gadling
Jul 6, 2007

"I am angry, angry about alternative gender identity elves!"

TheChimney posted:

What kind of specifications do I need to be looking at?

Bitrate and sampling rate. Try to match your audio files.

Connectivity.

Do you want it to do something else besides work as a DAC for computer, like work as a headphone amp?

Otherwise it's just like sampling any other piece of audio equipment. Listen for yourself, judge for yourself.

quote:

How important are they to the overall listening experience (is there a certain price that there is no point in going over)?

I have a Pro-Ject USB DAC and have been completely satisfied with it. I don't have high quality lossless music, all my stuff is CD quality. It cost me around Ä100 and I don't feel I can gain anything by upgrading it. For SACD material I'd just use a SACD player since even a quiet computer is relatively loud compared to other audio equipment. I would guess around $200 is the point where diminishing returns hit hard, and you can good performance with less if you don't need iPod docking or whatever.

quote:

Lastly, what kind of models/brands should I be looking at?

Pro-Ject, NuForce, FireStone FUBAR if you want a reasonably priced DAC.

KingRex T20U is an interesting little thing. Unfortunately I haven't heard it personally.

Linn Majik DS-I if price is no objection and you want the best possible "all-in-one" unit. It sounds nice, but $4200 MSRP is way above my means.

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TheChimney
Jan 31, 2005


Hob_Gadling posted:

Bitrate and sampling rate. Try to match your audio files.

Connectivity.

Do you want it to do something else besides work as a DAC for computer, like work as a headphone amp?

Otherwise it's just like sampling any other piece of audio equipment. Listen for yourself, judge for yourself.


I have a Pro-Ject USB DAC and have been completely satisfied with it. I don't have high quality lossless music, all my stuff is CD quality. It cost me around Ä100 and I don't feel I can gain anything by upgrading it. For SACD material I'd just use a SACD player since even a quiet computer is relatively loud compared to other audio equipment. I would guess around $200 is the point where diminishing returns hit hard, and you can good performance with less if you don't need iPod docking or whatever.


Pro-Ject, NuForce, FireStone FUBAR if you want a reasonably priced DAC.

KingRex T20U is an interesting little thing. Unfortunately I haven't heard it personally.

Linn Majik DS-I if price is no objection and you want the best possible "all-in-one" unit. It sounds nice, but $4200 MSRP is way above my means.


I would eventually like to have some high-end headphones. So, the ability to use it as a headphone amp would be a plus.


I've been reading some about Peachtree's iNova and iDecco. They look interesting: a DAC, pre-amp, and amp all in one package (though they are pretty pricey). Do you have an experience with these?

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