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Waroen posted:If your ultimate goal is buyside there's no reason to gently caress around in banking and want to kill yourself for a few years if you can get there immediately. What PE shops recruit for front-office out of NEU? Brooke PE Advisors. THL Credit also has a co-op and I've spoken with one of the partners at their presentation and he said while they haven't hired an undergrad in the past they wouldn't rule it out if the right candidate came along. Brooke is small and not well known, THL has pedigree on the street but clearly would be more difficult to work into. Bain has co-ops at Northeastern but they're all back office to my knowledge.
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Mar 8, 2011 15:48
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Brooke looks like they're a PE fund-of-funds which is a nice lifestyle but probably not what you're looking for as it's more due diligence and back-office type work. THL Credit is part of Thomas H. Lee so that would be pretty sweet but hard to break in to.
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Mar 8, 2011 16:01
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My understanding of high finance is weak at best, so forgive me if my ignorance leads this post astray. I've tried to cobble together an understanding of the most recent financial collapse by reading a few books and a couple of articles here and there. One of the main culprits seems to be misapplying concepts from physics or other academic fields(such as Brownian motion, which one book harped on), which don't really hold up within the world of investments because investments don't behave the same way as natural phenomena. Has there been a drive to develop new fundamental theories that don't suffer from the same shortcomings? Do you guys really use excel that extensively? What if you need a crosstab? What excel commands do you use now that you didn't use before you started your job? Finally, this is a purely subjective comment. I've gleaned from this thread and from people I know in the industry that most of you guys and gals are pretty miserable. Is this just a symptom of the industry, where the first few years are meat grinders where people can prove their mettle? Is it all about the cash? Seems like a pretty rotten way to go through life, regardless of the money involved. Again, this is just anecdote mixed with opinion. No offense intended.
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Mar 8, 2011 16:02
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Waroen posted:Brooke looks like they're a PE fund-of-funds which is a nice lifestyle but probably not what you're looking for as it's more due diligence and back-office type work. THL Credit is part of Thomas H. Lee so that would be pretty sweet but hard to break in to. Yeah, it's definitely not an ideal line-up but I'm trying to consider all my options. The Co-Op program creates a difficult decision if you want to go into banking. Either you have to forgo the ability to do a summer internship and take a 6-month co-op or forgo the final co-op (where students may get full time offers) and risk not landing a summer internship. econdroidbot posted:I've tried to cobble together an understanding of the most recent financial collapse by reading a few books and a couple of articles here and there. One of the main culprits seems to be misapplying concepts from physics or other academic fields(such as Brownian motion, which one book harped on), which don't really hold up within the world of investments because investments don't behave the same way as natural phenomena. Has there been a drive to develop new fundamental theories that don't suffer from the same shortcomings? This has more to do with quantitative analysis than banking. For the most part, the math required in banking is pretty simple and we have an army of financial engineers at our disposal should we need some numerical alchemy. As far as being miserable, I think most high paying professions usually require a period of suffering. The newcomers are always expected to give up their pound of flesh. In banking its the worst when you're an analyst but I don't know that it's much worse than something like med school.
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Mar 8, 2011 16:30
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econdroidbot posted:Finally, this is a purely subjective comment. I've gleaned from this thread and from people I know in the industry that most of you guys and gals are pretty miserable. Is this just a symptom of the industry, where the first few years are meat grinders where people can prove their mettle? Is it all about the cash? Seems like a pretty rotten way to go through life, regardless of the money involved. Again, this is just anecdote mixed with opinion. No offense intended. Yes we are; why do you think analysts drink so much? No, it's not all about the cash; you won't last in the industry if you're solely motivated by money. Those that are can and often do take on corporate jobs that still pay decent six figures and work 9 to 5, which is a much much better tradeoff in terms of lifestyle. Also the job does get much better after you've been in it for a while, because the pay jumps and the hours decline substantially. I'm not sticking around to find out though
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Mar 10, 2011 06:48
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Thoogsby posted:Does anyone have any experience, directly or indirectly, with going to the buyside directly out of undergrad? There are a couple small PE shops that occassionally recruit out of my school and while I would only consider it if it were a front office role, I'm still hesitant to skip the banking part of "the track". If anyone could shed some light on compensaton and upward mobility I would be happy to hear about it. A senior acquaintance of mine just got offered a job at Bain in Boston right out of undergrad. I didn't ask about the details. He mentioned 75k starting +150k bonus or something so I assume it's not back office. He's kind of an all-star here in terms of running multiple student organizations but I heard his GPA is pretty average (3.6-3.7 range). I imagine he aced the interviews though with how outgoing and charismatic he is.
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Mar 10, 2011 07:27
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Swingline posted:A senior acquaintance of mine just got offered a job at Bain in Boston right out of undergrad. I didn't ask about the details. He mentioned 75k starting +150k bonus or something so I assume it's not back office. He's kind of an all-star here in terms of running multiple student organizations but I heard his GPA is pretty average (3.6-3.7 range). I imagine he aced the interviews though with how outgoing and charismatic he is. What school did he go to?
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Mar 10, 2011 14:14
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Swingline posted:A senior acquaintance of mine just got offered a job at Bain in Boston right out of undergrad. I didn't ask about the details. He mentioned 75k starting +150k bonus or something so I assume it's not back office. He's kind of an all-star here in terms of running multiple student organizations but I heard his GPA is pretty average (3.6-3.7 range). I imagine he aced the interviews though with how outgoing and charismatic he is. It could be Sankaty; they're Bain Capital's credit fund and they recruit out of undergrad
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Mar 11, 2011 08:46
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Swingline posted:A senior acquaintance of mine just got offered a job at Bain in Boston right out of undergrad. I didn't ask about the details. He mentioned 75k starting +150k bonus or something so I assume it's not back office. He's kind of an all-star here in terms of running multiple student organizations but I heard his GPA is pretty average (3.6-3.7 range). I imagine he aced the interviews though with how outgoing and charismatic he is. 150k bonus is a lie just FYI.
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Mar 12, 2011 00:43
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The U.S. involvement in Libya is absolutely going to gently caress my life up. Looking forward to working an 18 hour day tomorrow.
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Mar 20, 2011 21:29
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Thoogsby posted:The U.S. involvement in Libya is absolutely going to gently caress my life up. Looking forward to working an 18 hour day tomorrow. Hahhaa, this is exactly the kind of self-centered response I expected from this thread. How could those selfish Libyans do this to you?! Joking aside, can you give me an idea of how such an event impacts your day to day? I assume now there's uncertainty in the oil market and such, and you need to update your positions accordingly. What other stuff do you need to do or consider?
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Mar 20, 2011 22:22
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Thoogsby posted:What school did he go to? Admirable Gusto posted:It could be Sankaty; they're Bain Capital's credit fund and they recruit out of undergrad Notre Dame and yeah it's Sankaty.
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Mar 21, 2011 04:26
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I just got accepted to Rutgers Business School and want to major in finance. My only concern is I'm 24 and will be 28 when I finish. Will that be held against me? I've been working for my fathers business(transportation company) since high school ended and have been running the day to day for the past 2. The reason I'm going back to school is this business is not something I want to do for the rest of my life(read: gently caress dealing with truck drivers daily).
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Mar 21, 2011 08:00
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econdroidbot posted:Hahhaa, this is exactly the kind of self-centered response I expected from this thread. How could those selfish Libyans do this to you?! I'm working on a derivatives desk in capital markets so we don't actually maintain positions. But anytime there's volatility in government yields or currencies I can plan on doing more work. This might mean redoing slides and models I've worked on or pricing new swaps based on current rates for clients. On top of this there's the normal day-to-day projects. For instance today I need to rework about 8 excel graphs and models that are all pulling data in from Bloomberg to spit out info in GBP instead of USD. KidDynamite posted:I just got accepted to Rutgers Business School and want to major in finance. My only concern is I'm 24 and will be 28 when I finish. Will that be held against me? I've been working for my fathers business(transportation company) since high school ended and have been running the day to day for the past 2. The reason I'm going back to school is this business is not something I want to do for the rest of my life(read: gently caress dealing with truck drivers daily). I'm assuming this is for undergrad since 24 would be normal or even young for an MBA. Rutgers really isn't ideal if you want to break into banking. Reputation means quite a lot and while there might not be an academically worse school than others, you'll definitely have a hard time when it comes to recruiting. Perhaps consider going to Rutgers and transfering if you're able to.
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Mar 21, 2011 13:54
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Thoogsby posted:I'm assuming this is for undergrad since 24 would be normal or even young for an MBA. Rutgers really isn't ideal if you want to break into banking. Reputation means quite a lot and while there might not be an academically worse school than others, you'll definitely have a hard time when it comes to recruiting. Perhaps consider going to Rutgers and transfering if you're able to. Were would you recommend transferring too? I'd like to go keep it in New Jersey or NYC. Basically somewhere I could commute too because I'm still going to work.
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Mar 21, 2011 16:33
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KidDynamite posted:Were would you recommend transferring too? I'd like to go keep it in New Jersey or NYC. Basically somewhere I could commute too because I'm still going to work. Not sure about New Jersey but as far as NYC goes NYU and Fordham have a pretty established reputation as solid business undergrad schools.
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Mar 21, 2011 17:46
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If I want to break into bulge bracket finance (IB/PE) via business school, what's the cutoff in rankings? Will Columbia or Haas suffice for finance or does it HAVE to be Wharton? I ask because my friend at Wharton (undergrad) has told me multiple times that "honestly, everybody knows that Harvard and MIT MBAs are a joke". Also I'll probably be 30 when I graduate with an MBA, will that hurt my chances when interviewing?
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Mar 21, 2011 18:51
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theDOWmustflow posted:If I want to break into bulge bracket finance (IB/PE) via business school, what's the cutoff in rankings? Will Columbia or Haas suffice for finance or does it HAVE to be Wharton? I ask because my friend at Wharton (undergrad) has told me multiple times that "honestly, everybody knows that Harvard and MIT MBAs are a joke". Your friends an idiot.
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Mar 21, 2011 19:12
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Yeah, I figured. I gave it half-consideration because the law field is still in total meltdown so unless you go to H/S/Y your chances at working in Big Law are very slim, and also his brother, currently in the Wharton MBA program, said something to the effect that Harvard uses "weird" teaching methods and doesn't emphasize finance.
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Mar 21, 2011 22:35
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theDOWmustflow posted:Yeah, I figured. I gave it half-consideration because the law field is still in total meltdown so unless you go to H/S/Y your chances at working in Big Law are very slim, and also his brother, currently in the Wharton MBA program, said something to the effect that Harvard uses "weird" teaching methods and doesn't emphasize finance. Harvard's MBA program is a case study program. Perhaps that's what he meant by "weird". Wharton is notorious for having a technicaly intensive finance curriculum.
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Mar 21, 2011 22:49
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KidDynamite posted:Were would you recommend transferring too? I'd like to go keep it in New Jersey or NYC. Basically somewhere I could commute too because I'm still going to work. I believe Rutgers has an investment banking student organization and a few people supposedly do get jobs in banking from it, but you will probably have a much easier time if you are at NYU Stern or Penn or Columbia. I don't really think any other local schools justify the the cost or hassle of transferring, and even NYU is pushing it since you are doubling your tuition cost for not thaaaat much of a boost. This is speculation, but I'd be willing to bet that smaller boutique banks would be more lenient with your age and school than the big structured programs at large banks.
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Mar 22, 2011 19:21
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flyingfoggy posted:This is speculation, but I'd be willing to bet that smaller boutique banks would be more lenient with your age and school than the big structured programs at large banks. This is a difficult point and I've heard it argued both ways. While it's true boutiques usually don't get the same attention from the highest caliber applicants, they may not hire people from non-targets becaue they just don't have as large of an analyst pool to fill. Morgan Stanley may be trying to fill an analyst pool of 100 and will take 5 students from non-targets whereas Lazard may only need 20 analysts and might take none from non-targets. Either way there's no point to not shoot for the best job possible for yourself, just don't spend all your time trying to get into GS/MS.
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Mar 22, 2011 19:40
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Hey guys, I'm in research for a boutique consulting/PE/corp finance co based in the Middle East. Daily tasks (besides industry-specific intelligence) include running FactSet and explaining to dumb fresh grads that you can in fact have negative enterprise value and that it's not a surprise the deal you're looking at has no disclosed multiples because the target is a lovely ISP in Burundi. Currently studying for CFA (level 1 exam in June) and hoping to some day move to banking proper. Anyone using the Thomson Reuters community chat tool?
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Mar 22, 2011 22:29
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So which PE Firms or Hedge Funds do real estate? Is it pretty much hopeless to try to find a job outside of Manhattan?
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Mar 23, 2011 03:04
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The Capitulator posted:Hey guys, I'm in research for a boutique consulting/PE/corp finance co based in the Middle East. Daily tasks (besides industry-specific intelligence) include running FactSet and explaining to dumb fresh grads that you can in fact have negative enterprise value and that it's not a surprise the deal you're looking at has no disclosed multiples because the target is a lovely ISP in Burundi. Currently studying for CFA (level 1 exam in June) and hoping to some day move to banking proper. I'm not sure how much a CFA will help you in banking.
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Mar 23, 2011 12:52
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Bobx66 posted:So which PE Firms or Hedge Funds do real estate? Is it pretty much hopeless to try to find a job outside of Manhattan? Come to Socal/LA, the home of speculative real estate. Also what do you mean "do real estate". You're looking for a hedge fund that trades actively in real estate? Not sure they exist. A private equity firm that does real estate company deals? Maybe. If you want to be in the asset side, you're mostly looking at finding work for an investment fund that has a REIT or a commercial real estate shop. A lot of big banks have commercial real estate analyst programs, where the group buys distressed/cheap real estate for portfolios and you get a lot of debt structuring and calculating internal rates of return project finance kind of experience. A REIT is an investment fund where there's a pool of properties you're investing in. If you want to work on the debt side, there's a whole host of jobs from the guy who approves loans, to wholesale purchasers who purchase the loans off the banks books, to the securitization where these loans are bundled into financial product word soup (these are a lot of what crashed in the recession and hasn't really recovered). edit: Studying for and passing the CFA level 1 is an extra step that's often viewed favorably by bankers recruiting for analyst/associate entry-level positions, it's something that became a lot more common as the competition for these jobs heated up. I'm not sure how much it'll help you make the actual transition. edit2: I'm not sure why I write like that, it's still pretty extreme that poo poo isn't easy. edit3: Commercial real estate is it's own industry. The bigger the group or real estate company, the more acquisition work you'll do, to the point you can be an acquisition analyst like I mentioned in a big bank shop or someone like CB Ellis . In a smaller place you'll do a lot of the maintenance and administration of their existing properties Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Mar 25, 2011 |
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Mar 23, 2011 20:41
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Thats exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Miller!
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Mar 23, 2011 21:31
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Its Miller Time posted:edit: Studying for and passing the CFA level 1 is an extra step that's often viewed favorably by bankers recruiting for analyst/associate entry-level positions, it's something that became a lot more common as the competition for these jobs heated up. I'm not sure how much it'll help you make the actual transition. I should have been more clear - if I do decide to move, I'm first and foremost shooting for the research positions, which are, as far as I can see, full of CFAs or at least level 2 candidates. I would actually love to hear from anyone in research in a big bank work.
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Mar 24, 2011 06:18
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The Capitulator posted:I should have been more clear - if I do decide to move, I'm first and foremost shooting for the research positions, which are, as far as I can see, full of CFAs or at least level 2 candidates. I would actually love to hear from anyone in research in a big bank work. Yeah, if you want to get into research a CFA is definitely a must. I thought you were referring to IBD where it would be nearly worthless. Miller Time, do you get PMs? I would love to ask you a few questions about Public Finance.
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Mar 24, 2011 14:17
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Thoogsby posted:Yeah, if you want to get into research a CFA is definitely a must. I thought you were referring to IBD where it would be nearly worthless. Cool. Hey so here's a question. How do bankers generally view research guys? For example, I found that in consulting, it varies between 'highly respected (but underpaid) specialists' to 'worthless admin monkeys, we consultants are so much better'. This highly depends on the team and the individual as well as experience of the consultant with the research guys. Any ideas about banking? What about pay? Where I am now, the fixed pay is slightly better than similar level consultants, PE or corporate finance guys but overall pay is worse because of the variable component.
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Mar 24, 2011 14:34
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The Capitulator posted:Cool. Hey so here's a question. How do bankers generally view research guys? For example, I found that in consulting, it varies between 'highly respected (but underpaid) specialists' to 'worthless admin monkeys, we consultants are so much better'. This highly depends on the team and the individual as well as experience of the consultant with the research guys. Any ideas about banking? What about pay? Where I am now, the fixed pay is slightly better than similar level consultants, PE or corporate finance guys but overall pay is worse because of the variable component. Pay is highly dependent on performance, geography, and position so it's hard to say for sure without specifics. As far as the relationship between bankers and researchers, I think it is strained. Sell-side analysts used to be all-stars at their respective banks but that status took a hit during the dot-com bubble and the enron/worldcom collapses. From what I hear now, sell-side analysts are under enormous pressue to provide favorable ratings to the banker's clients and the system has been perverted to the point where there is little incentive for analysts to be either contrarian or bearish. Buy-side research though I hear is quite different. You get to see your ideas put into practice and aren't pressured by bankers to cheerlead their clients.
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Mar 24, 2011 16:41
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I don't work for a big bank and have no idea about that dynamic. I get PMs. I have a question for everyone: In the course of arguing over the labor lockout in the NFL over in TFF, I found a Forbes report showing Forbes' estimates were for high positive EBITDA's for almost all NFL teams. Someone challenged me, saying because it's impossible to estimate depreciation, there's no way Forbes could make any close estimates of a private company's EBITDA. I replied this is exactly why depreciation is one of the items excluded in EBITDA. He replied you need to estimate depreciation because you calculate EBITDA by taking EBIT and adding DA back. I replied this was a useless route seeing as the teams don't publish their financials and the only way Forbes could be estimating this is a top down analysis of revenues minus expenses that aren't ITDA. Who's right. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Mar 24, 2011 |
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Mar 24, 2011 23:05
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Its Miller Time posted:I don't work for a big bank and have no idea about that dynamic. I get PMs. I have a question for everyone: The correct measure of how much money you can take out of a business entity over a given period is EBITDA - maintenace Capex, which is the amount of capital investment necessary for the business to maintain its current level of operations, as opposed to expansionary business plans. So whether or not you know EBDA, you're still missing a piece of a puzzle.
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Mar 24, 2011 23:18
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So the consensus is that Forbes' estimates of private companies earnings are not accurate or realistic because of these difficulties? I'm not looking at the long-term value of a team, I'm asking how close you can to estimating a team/any private companies' EBITDA/profit for any given year.
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Mar 24, 2011 23:38
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Its Miller Time posted:So the consensus is that Forbes' estimates of private companies earnings are not accurate or realistic because of these difficulties? I'm not looking at the long-term value of a team, I'm asking how close you can to estimating a team/any private companies' EBITDA/profit for any given year. I know absolutely nothing about owning a sports team, but I would guess that estimating depreciation doesn't matter because I can't imagine what a sports team might have that actually incurs material depreciation cost. (Unless they own a stadium?) I'd imagine most cost they incur are expensed rather than capitalised. For amortisation, taking a wild stab in the dark, you can estimate the value of the team's brand/intangible assets (maybe through precedent transactions when teams have been bought/sold) and go from there. Another possibility is, as you said, that they calculated EBITDA from top down. That makes the most sense - you can definitely estimate the revenues (deal contracts/merchandise) and the costs (probably mostly salaries?) to a reasonable degree. Socialism fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Mar 25, 2011 |
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Mar 25, 2011 04:00
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Its Miller Time posted:I don't work for a big bank and have no idea about that dynamic. I get PMs. I have a question for everyone: See, that's the whole thing with trying to understand financials of a private company - results will vary depending on the amount of information that is disclosed, your understanding of the industry, your ability to extrapolate and make assumptions based on publicly available information from similar industries and so on. As the gentleman/lady below me pointed out, unless these teams own the stadiums (which i doubt), the amortization of their franchise would be the biggest question mark here, not depreciation. But in reality, without knowing the methodology used by the Forbes guy, you can't really say one way or the other if his assumptions are accurate or not. A quick suggestion - google tells me there are no listed NFL teams due to NFL rules except Green Bay Packers. Apparently these guys release their earnings etc - look that up and see what kind of margins they show then compare with the FT analyst. Disclaimer: I know nothing about NFL. The Capitulator fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Mar 25, 2011 |
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Mar 25, 2011 07:40
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The Capitulator posted:Cool. Hey so here's a question. How do bankers generally view research guys? For example, I found that in consulting, it varies between 'highly respected (but underpaid) specialists' to 'worthless admin monkeys, we consultants are so much better'. This highly depends on the team and the individual as well as experience of the consultant with the research guys. Any ideas about banking? What about pay? Where I am now, the fixed pay is slightly better than similar level consultants, PE or corporate finance guys but overall pay is worse because of the variable component. Depends. Our research team saved my rear end a few times by providing data I needed to put into a client presentation. Also I think the biggest "brains" tended to be in research, whereas the deal teams were more fratboy-ish. Pay I believe was about the same at the analyst level but the bonuses were significantly lower (50%+ lower).
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Mar 25, 2011 09:00
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Socialism posted:I know absolutely nothing about owning a sports team, but I would guess that estimating depreciation doesn't matter because I can't imagine what a sports team might have that actually incurs material depreciation cost. (Unless they own a stadium?) I'd imagine most cost they incur are expensed rather than capitalised. For amortisation, taking a wild stab in the dark, you can estimate the value of the team's brand/intangible assets (maybe through precedent transactions when teams have been bought/sold) and go from there. I'd agree with this. Depreciation is effectively a measure of fixed asset requirements amortized over time - while I can see things like buses, equipment, training gear, fans, gatorade all that poo poo, it still seems like a rounding error vs. the kind of P&Ls you are talking about. His friend was right that depreciation is often buried in expenses or COGS, so you have to figure it out or guess at it to get to EBITDA, but it doesn't seem like a material thing ina sports team. (I've never seen an NFL P&L so all of this is wild speculation)..
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Mar 25, 2011 17:59
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Mr. WTF posted:I'd agree with this. Depreciation is effectively a measure of fixed asset requirements amortized over time - while I can see things like buses, equipment, training gear, fans, gatorade all that poo poo, it still seems like a rounding error vs. the kind of P&Ls you are talking about. His friend was right that depreciation is often buried in expenses or COGS, so you have to figure it out or guess at it to get to EBITDA, but it doesn't seem like a material thing ina sports team. (I've never seen an NFL P&L so all of this is wild speculation).. The value of the equipment they own would be fairly material though, right? Don't some teams own their own airplanes? I don't think they fly commercial. And they probably own the training facilities. Also what about goodwill after an acquisition, like when a team moves?
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Mar 26, 2011 11:34
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Had a look at the actual Forbes articles and did some back of the excel sheet calculations. Green Bay Packers apparently operate on a 4% EBITDA margin (according to disclosures) whereas Dallas Cowboys, according to Forbes, operate on a 34% margin. I ran EV/EBITDA and EV/REVENUE ratios taking Forbes' 'valuation' as EV (although I am confused about their treatment of debt and am not entirely sure of the methodology). The EV/Revenues came out between 4 and 5, which seems fairly normal but EV/EBITDA was all over the place, including a 103 for Green Bay and a whopping 562.85 for NY Giants. So there's definitely something wrong in one of those denominators.
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Mar 26, 2011 18:48
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