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Dabbo posted:Hey so bit of an awkward question. The main character in a comic I'm working on comes from a tribal setting where the women don't always cover up their breats, she herself is topless half the time. Could I get some general advice on how to avoid getting male-gazey(or lesbian gazey if thats considered a thing) while drawing her?
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| # ? Oct 25, 2011 21:20 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 16:28 |
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Dabbo posted:Here's a quick sketch of her if that'll help at all (Possibly NWS: http://i.imgur.com/d7aGX.png) Draw it as though she were wearing a shirt but don't draw the shirt on her. That's a great looking design by the way, you have a really strong style. Do you have somewhere we can follow your stuff?
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| # ? Oct 25, 2011 21:23 |
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It's all in the framing and posing. Keep the poses naturalistic and don't have your camera getting up close and personal all the time, and you should be fine.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2011 21:23 |
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One of the things that I really like about that design, by the way, is that her breasts actually look like human breasts. They hang down, they appear to have actual weight. They aren't some sort of bizarre anti-gravity breasts on a species that apparently found an evolutionary advantage in maximizing cleavage potential, like many women in comics are drawn. I might argue that her waist could be a little wider, but at least she appears to have organs. Realistic figures definitely goes a long way toward avoiding objectifying your characters.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2011 21:27 |
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Nate Breakman posted:Draw it as though she were wearing a shirt but don't draw the shirt on her. That's a great looking design by the way, you have a really strong style. Do you have somewhere we can follow your stuff? Aaaw thank you! That means a lot coming from you. c: I don't have any websites I feel comfortable linking right now, sadly. All of them are filled with embarrassing poo poo :T Maybe I'll get a tumblr or something I don't know. Supercar Gautier posted:It's all in the framing and posing. Keep the poses naturalistic and don't have your camera getting up close and personal all the time, and you should be fine. Alrighty. That sounds easy enough, but I know I'm probably going to slip up a few times and end up drawing something questionable. Hopefully people reading won't be afraid to call me out on it if I start teetering on the edge. FactsAreUseless posted:One of the things that I really like about that design, by the way, is that her breasts actually look like human breasts. They hang down, they appear to have actual weight. They aren't some sort of bizarre anti-gravity breasts on a species that apparently found an evolutionary advantage in maximizing cleavage potential, like many women in comics are drawn. I might argue that her waist could be a little wider, but at least she appears to have organs. Realistic figures definitely goes a long way toward avoiding objectifying your characters. Oh gosh thanks! I was actually wondering if I should make her breasts a bit saggier since she's never worn a bra in her life, but I'm afraid that if did that people would be distracted by their shape and find her kinda gross to look at. And I agree about the waist, right now her whole figure's too girly and slender when she's supposed to be this big strong lady from a family of miners oops
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| # ? Oct 25, 2011 21:50 |
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Dabbo posted:breasts Go get some old National Geographics or other ethnographic photography of cultures where this is common practice. There's a wikipedia article about toplessness!!!  Most of the time in cultures where women bear their breasts, women also marry young and have children. The combination of nursing from a young age and not wearing bras means their breasts sag more and tend to look different from the Western ideal. Also, breasts lose much of their erotic allure, and the "NSFW" power transfers to somewhere else like the inner thigh. Unfortunately, the  patriarchal hegemony of the West   means that even if you avoid the male gaze in your framing, the element of exoticism will remain and that will alter the narrative context you're trying to build. Exoticism and sexuality remain linked (they call it "exotic dancing" for a reason).
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| # ? Oct 25, 2011 21:58 |
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Is 'read the poo poo out of the first chapter of The Meek' a valid answer? Cos that sticks out in my mind as a naked female character tastefully done with no male gaze.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2011 22:01 |
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I should point out that not wearing a bra doesn't cause breasts to sag. In fact it has the opposite effect if you're reasonably physically active! Also that sketch you posted is among some of the least male-gazey pictures I've ever seen. I don't think you really have anything to worry about on that front.
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| # ? Oct 25, 2011 23:17 |
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neonnoodle posted:Unfortunately, the Uggggh This is a HUGE issue that I know is unavoidable and I really really hate it. I have no idea what I can do about it except do my best to keep my portrayal respectful and avoid stereotypes. mrpwase posted:Is 'read the poo poo out of the first chapter of The Meek' a valid answer? Cos that sticks out in my mind as a naked female character tastefully done with no male gaze. This is good advice no matter what the question or context. BTW I went ahead and made that tumblr, if anyone wants to follow it: http://a-witch.tumblr.com/
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| # ? Oct 25, 2011 23:18 |
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Nate Breakman posted:Draw it as though she were wearing a shirt but don't draw the shirt on her. Also don't worry about sag or waist size as long as a reasonable variety of body types are represented -- both perky and saggy breasts are perfectly natural, so are different body shapes -- and based on your previous character design posts that shouldn't be a problem either. I don't know where people got the idea that bras prevent sagging. They're just for comfort and support; bras don't actually change how the boob works. Crisco Kid fucked around with this message at Oct 26, 2011 around 01:13 |
| # ? Oct 26, 2011 01:11 |
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Crisco Kid posted:I don't know where people got the idea that bras prevent sagging. They're just for comfort and support; bras don't actually change how the boob works. In any case, lots of artists draw the characters nude and then put clothes on top of them (and I'm not talking about the superhero ones that just draw costumes over body lines), so if you're drawing your characters nude and then just not putting clothes on their breasts you're doing it right.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2011 01:41 |
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Tits sag based on genetic predisposition, age, whether or not the owner has nursed and size. Bras are just there to keep two sacs of fat from bouncing every which way when you move. Dabbo: frankly, I find the furry designs you posted on your Tumblr (the ones for your own work -- the line-up with the lizard and the lion dude, etc.) to be a lot more interesting than the human redesign you did. But hey, it's your style and frankly, if you feel uncomfortable using those designs, then that's fair enough. Also, I think these have been linked before, but I really think you'll find them helpful: Cedarseed's Human Types tutorials (plus the Addendum). EDIT: it's been literal years since I last had to link something with BBcode, oops. weavernaut fucked around with this message at Oct 26, 2011 around 12:26 |
| # ? Oct 26, 2011 12:23 |
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weavernaut posted:
I would like to know how this guy/girl is teaching us how to draw people and doesn't notice that the cover to his/her anatomy book has a character whose bent leg is twice as long as the straight one.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2011 15:07 |
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weavernaut posted:Dabbo: frankly, I find the furry designs you posted on your Tumblr (the ones for your own work -- the line-up with the lizard and the lion dude, etc.) to be a lot more interesting than the human redesign you did. But hey, it's your style and frankly, if you feel uncomfortable using those designs, then that's fair enough. You're not the first to say that actually, and I still have a lot more fun drawing them as animal people than humans so far. I guess I'm just afraid of falling into the same trap as the author of Cheap Thrills, where she ends up regretting going with animal people years down the line and her comic gets a lot of "This is so good, too bad it's furry." I also read comments all the time from people who can't take anything furry seriously because they just find it ridiculous to look at. So um, I dunno. :c
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| # ? Oct 26, 2011 17:45 |
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Dabbo posted:You're not the first to say that actually, and I still have a lot more fun drawing them as animal people than humans so far. I guess I'm just afraid of falling into the same trap as the author of Cheap Thrills, where she ends up regretting going with animal people years down the line and her comic gets a lot of "This is so good, too bad it's furry." I also read comments all the time from people who can't take anything furry seriously because they just find it ridiculous to look at. There's really no good reason to listen to your audience. Number of views is more important than audience feedback, since the people typically motivated to give feedback are going to give the worst feedback. Get opinions from other creatives, don't look to your audience to find out what works. Of course if you never learn how to draw realistic people you'll be limited if you ever want to branch out, but that's a personal thing and not really related to the product you're putting out there right now.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2011 18:15 |
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Dabbo posted:You're not the first to say that actually, and I still have a lot more fun drawing them as animal people than humans so far. I guess I'm just afraid of falling into the same trap as the author of Cheap Thrills, where she ends up regretting going with animal people years down the line and her comic gets a lot of "This is so good, too bad it's furry." I also read comments all the time from people who can't take anything furry seriously because they just find it ridiculous to look at. One thing that jumps out about the redesign is that it's hugely conservative with shape and pattern compared to the original. In the first version she has quite a sense of weight about her, thanks to the hooves and the gravity implied by the thick fluff around her chest/forearms/ankles. Remember you can still use costume elements to reproduce that kind of thing, even though a human figure doesn't share the same physical characteristics. She could wear draped sleeves, or fur cuffs, or even exaggerated jewellery that might emphasise the direction of gravity. She's gone from hooves to bare feet, too, which has a bunch of different connotations - bare human feet are tender and agile whereas the hooves implied toughness and sturdiness. You've lost the lift that the perky ears give to her face, which could easily be brought back by a hair clasp, or a quill behind the ear, or a horned visor or whatever the heck you can come up with that would fit the person/setting. Even her face is noticably different just with the removal of animal features - as a human her mouth is a lot wider and her nose smaller, which changes the balance of her face towards something more generic. I guess I'm saying I agree that the original design is more interesting, but that there's no reason a human design can't play off many of the same tactile/cultural attributes that an animal design conjures up. It's just that you'll have to add notes of visual interest all the ones you remove.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2011 18:20 |
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Dabbo posted:You're not the first to say that actually, and I still have a lot more fun drawing them as animal people than humans so far. I guess I'm just afraid of falling into the same trap as the author of Cheap Thrills, where she ends up regretting going with animal people years down the line and her comic gets a lot of "This is so good, too bad it's furry." I also read comments all the time from people who can't take anything furry seriously because they just find it ridiculous to look at. I actually like your human drawings more, and I think there could be more potential in them, but then again I like the human art in cheap thrills.. it's a good interpretation, which may be something that might work for you. If you think of them as animal people first, then try drawing them as humans, it may help your character design. It depends on how deeply seeded your doubts are going with animal-people. You should draw what you really enjoy drawing, but also not limit yourself if you're really set on improving. Just because you're better at animal-people now, doesn't mean you will be in a few months.
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| # ? Oct 26, 2011 21:13 |
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I finally finished my 24 hour comic! This is the first multi-page anything that I have ever completed! I learned a lot while doing this. For example I went from being a person who colored with my mouse like it was a crayon to a person who has some vague idea about selection tools and the fill bucket. I also used an Ames lettering guide for the first time! Here is the complete comic. So that this is a little fair to the people who did theirs in 24 hours, this is what I did in 24 hours. It was not 24 consecutive hours. And yeah it took me like two months to color 8 pages  Considering this took me so long to pull together, I think it's fair to critique it. I already am practicing figure drawing several times a week, and have Loomis. I think I could probably use whatever advice/critique/resources on absolutely everything else though.
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| # ? Oct 27, 2011 03:05 |
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*til next time
neonnoodle fucked around with this message at Oct 27, 2011 around 22:57 |
| # ? Oct 27, 2011 21:57 |
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Ok, so remember that project I told y'all about a week or so ago where I make a comic and let you all critique the process as I make it? Well I may have a little time later this weekend in which to get at least some brainstorming started (actual pre-drawing still may not start in earnest until December though. Stupid school...). So, if it's not too much trouble I'd like to get some possible story seeds from you guys to base the piece on. This can be either a general character you'd like to see, a basic premise, a loose theme, or a specific event you want to see happen in the story at some point. I'll pick the one I like best and then see where it takes me and report back to you once I have half a dozen basic ideas or so that I like and can get feedback on. Thanks! I appreciate it! Fake edit: Oh! And remember that this is for a one chapter story ranging from 8-24 or so pages. So no multi-arc events sadly.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2011 00:25 |
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Think of three things. 1. An occupation 2. A place 3. An emotion For example, an angry cop in Paris. This should suggest something presently. If not, spin the wheel again. Or apply your own methodology because really it's not that hard to just come up with a premise for a story if you're not particular. Asking other people for story premises is kind of degrading to everyone involved.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2011 00:33 |
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Quantify! posted:Think of three things. Angry cop in paris sounds kinda cool! it could be a noir thing. Jaques Chevalier, the Upset Inspector. I guess, especially with comic art, a thing to really consider is what sort of style you can marry to the concept.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2011 00:59 |
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^^^ Hahaha! Your right. It kind of does sound awesome. Too bad I know so little about France or the French in general or I'd be all over that. :/Quantify! posted:Think of three things. Fair enough. I generally agree with that sentiment. I was mostly just looking for a starting point I didn't have control over so the story could go places that I wasn't expecting. I suppose your strategy will work just as well though. I think I'll do your idea but generate 20 possibilities I like for each category and use a D20 to pick which ones I go with. That should spice things up a bit! Thanks for the feedback! readingatwork fucked around with this message at Oct 28, 2011 around 01:08 |
| # ? Oct 28, 2011 01:05 |
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readingatwork posted:So, if it's not too much trouble I'd like to get some possible story seeds from you guys to base the piece on. This can be either a general character you'd like to see, a basic premise, a loose theme, or a specific event you want to see happen in the story at some point. I'll pick the one I like best and then see where it takes me and report back to you once I have half a dozen basic ideas or so that I like and can get feedback on. Pick a character, figure out what he or she wants, then think up some crazy obstacles to that goal. You can't go wrong with an animal trying to overcome its natural limits. (A penguin or kiwi wanting to fly, a hippo on Weight Watchers, a dog wanting to learn how to open a can of dog food, a laughing hyena wanting to be taken seriously, a alligator that wants to be an accountant, and so on.) On an unrelated note: a few of my fans have asked why I haven't put up a store yet. I was gonna say "because no one would buy my poo poo" but apparently they would, so I'm running out of excuses. Can anyone recommend a good print-on-demand t-shirt company? Are Zazzle or CafePress still considered low-quality? Thanks.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2011 01:15 |
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readingatwork posted:Too bad I know so little about France or the French in general or I'd be all over that. :/ I think an outsider's interpretation of what Paris might be like without having been there might even make it more interesting.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2011 05:22 |
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readingatwork posted:Too bad I know so little about France or the French in general or I'd be all over that. :/ Knowing little about the people or place has never stopped Dan Brown from raking in the millions. My favourite example in Digital Fortress where the male protagonist is a genius in East Asian languages and is called in to translate some "Japanese" text which he tries for ages to no avail, before saying "wait maybe it's Chinese - they use the same writing system after all" and translating it perfectly first time. Never mind that Japanese has the kana system on top of the kanji system and that any moron with more than a passing glance at East Asian system can instantly differentiate between Chinese, Japanese and Korean. But I digress, basically you don't need to be an expert in your subject to be successful, and sometimes being deliberately over-the-top wrong can be hilarious if played tastefully.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2011 05:29 |
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I had asked this question earlier but it got buried. Basically I've just now put up a website at http://www.astralaves.com (you can add this to the master list if you want!, it's just a crappy tumblr) and I was wondering what people reccomend for webcomic hosting., Do people like Drunkduck or smackjeves? Or should I go with my own website? What sort of layouts do people like to see? I guess I am doing a graphic novel format.... any recommendations? I basically have no clue how to build a good website and would love to have some input.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2011 06:41 |
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I was about to say "read the OP it should tell you about Comicpress" but then I went to the OP and it didn't mention it at all. Basically SmackJeeves and Drunk Duck aren't entirely the worst thing ever but unfortunately because any idiot can sign up and upload their turd-smeared lavatory towel you will find yourself tarred with a very broad brush, and one that smells suspiciously of faeces. Having your own website gives you more control, albeit at the double sacrifice of:
One particularly useful thing for that first bullet point though is Comicpress which is used quite a lot. Several of the comickers in this very thread use it so they can probably help you with the customisation side of things.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2011 09:43 |
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A lot of times people find comic press too confusing, in which case webcomic might be the way to go. Although a lot of people feel that it's webcomic that's the confusing one, it's really all about your personal preference.
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| # ? Oct 28, 2011 13:53 |
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Will anyone in this thread be doing the 30 character challenge? I'll be giving it a shot, since I have a lot of character designs I need to get down. This'll be a fun exercise and challenge, I think.
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| # ? Nov 1, 2011 05:12 |
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Dabbo posted:Will anyone in this thread be doing the 30 character challenge? I'll be giving it a shot, since I have a lot of character designs I need to get down. This'll be a fun exercise and challenge, I think. I saw this a little while ago and really, really wanted to sign up, but there's absolutely no way I'd be able to keep it up with my workload through November. I mean, I could certainly design a character every day, but scanning and tagging and uploading is another matter. I'm going to do the daily design part anyway, just for my own amusement, maybe put them on a tumblr or something in weekly batches. If anyone else from the thread is participating I'll follow along for sure.
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| # ? Nov 1, 2011 12:12 |
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Tesseraction posted:I was about to say "read the OP it should tell you about Comicpress" but then I went to the OP and it didn't mention it at all. Basically SmackJeeves and Drunk Duck aren't entirely the worst thing ever but unfortunately because any idiot can sign up and upload their turd-smeared lavatory towel you will find yourself tarred with a very broad brush, and one that smells suspiciously of faeces. I'm not exactly looking to attract an audience of people that love anthro/anime stuff, but on the other hand if I put something out there and it gets a couple hundred regular viewers, that's a lot of motivation for me, even if they're all kids who aren't that sophisticated in their viewing habits yet.
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| # ? Nov 1, 2011 12:32 |
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A couple of hundred readers from something like SmackJeeves or Drunk Duck might be a little too optimistic, I'm afraid. I can't give any figures but Speedball's Dragon Doctors is one of the top ten in terms of traffic, maybe he can help us out with the stats?
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| # ? Nov 1, 2011 17:18 |
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Ever since Drunk Duck overhauled their system to a newer one with a lot of bugs, I haven't been able to get the number of pageviews or regular readers tracked. However, last time I was able to check, I usually had several thousand hits a day (a really hot day would have over ten thousand). and of course there's about twenty or thirty regular respondants I recognize leaving comments, though they rarely comment all at once. Speedball fucked around with this message at Nov 1, 2011 around 17:44 |
| # ? Nov 1, 2011 17:36 |
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Somewhat similar to the 30 Day Design Challenge, is anyone going NaNoMangO this year?
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| # ? Nov 1, 2011 18:49 |
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What is NanoMangO?
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| # ? Nov 1, 2011 20:22 |
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Fangz posted:What is NanoMangO? 
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| # ? Nov 1, 2011 20:39 |
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Tesseraction posted:A couple of hundred readers from something like SmackJeeves or Drunk Duck might be a little too optimistic, I'm afraid. I can't give any figures but Speedball's Dragon Doctors is one of the top ten in terms of traffic, maybe he can help us out with the stats? This is all elegant theory that will probably crash down around my head whenever I start slaving over a webcomic and only one guy reads it and posts "you sux" in the comment box.
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| # ? Nov 1, 2011 22:00 |
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Quantify! posted:This is all elegant theory that will probably crash down around my head whenever I start slaving over a webcomic and only one guy reads it and posts "you sux" in the comment box. If you draw it, someone will like it. I guarantee it. People will only do what you fear when you really are bottom-of-the-barrel horrible.
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| # ? Nov 1, 2011 22:02 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 16:28 |
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I feel so stupid for asking this, but I have a PHP/Comicspress question. On the right side of my site I have a couple Project Wonderful ads that are just barely too large for the bar. I feel like this must be some number that I change from whatever it is now to like 250 or something, I just have no idea which number or where to find it. Can anyone answer my dumb guy question?
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| # ? Nov 1, 2011 23:08 |
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