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Space-Bird posted:Question!: How do people approach the writing aspect of making comics? I take my bamboo sketching pad, use a sable to outline the panels and text guides and start with writing whatever comes into my mind. This works surprisingly well for the type of comics I'm doing where I feel I've got a good bead on the characters and their thought process.
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| # ? Apr 17, 2012 19:06 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 08:43 |
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For the black and white comics I've put online, I usually spend around 2-3 hours on each page. The only color comic I've put up is minus which took around 4-6 hours per strip. Bird...IN SPACE! posted:Edit Question!: How do people approach the writing aspect of making comics? I always find when I lay out a page in text, the pacing is not what I expect when I go to sit down and draw, and a lot of things end up changing...do people usually stick to the script, or do a lot of changes get worked in when you're building pages? I start by penciling an entire chapter and then edit or remove the parts that bother me. My pencils are really rough(5-10 minutes per page), so it's not time consuming, plus it's easy to see how everything fits together and make broad changes before really committing to anything. Once that's complete, I spend the next few weeks/months inking the pages, and I use that time to figure out what will happen in the next chapter/mess with ideas for new comics. As for scripts... I think going off script is a normal part of working with them, really. There are so many things you can't account for until you begin production that it would be a little weird to never change anything.
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| # ? Apr 17, 2012 19:15 |
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copyrezo posted:As for scripts... I think going off script is a normal part of working with them, really. There are so many things you can't account for until you begin production that it would be a little weird to never change anything. One of my writing philosophies I've always maintained is "the best idea is the one you haven't had yet", as this accounts for coming up with even better ways to handle scenes as you're writing the material building towards it, or an arc down the line. At least this is how it works for me. And since it's probably lost in the other thread here is one of my pages coming together from start to finish, as mentioned earlier: http://i.imgur.com/5DbIA.gif I tend to be a sloppy sketcher and I take a long time visualizing how I want things to move and position in space during the initial stages. The first frame is what my thumbnail looked like for that page.
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| # ? Apr 17, 2012 19:24 |
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Barring any extreme distractions or mental blocks I can do a page in about 4-5 hours. Most of that is sketching and layout. Once I actually get things where I want them the finishing only takes a couple of hours usually, so sometimes I have a really easy page and it gets done faster than that.
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| # ? Apr 17, 2012 21:29 |
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Since this thread has more or less died again, I might as well ask if anybody here has read my comic http://www.korvapuusti.com and if you have an opinion about it. Also, if anyone knows of a good cheap way to get new readers, I'm all ears!
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 12:31 |
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The best free way to get attention is to post homestuck fanart on tumblr and once youve amassed a sizeable following, start posting links to your comic and drawing homestuck characters crossing over with your characters. Then you can gradually make the switch over to my little pony versions of your characters and the entire internet will be eating out of your hand. I guess it's not really free but it doesn't cost money is the point
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 12:44 |
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Zhumma posted:Since this thread has more or less died again, I might as well ask if anybody here has read my comic http://www.korvapuusti.com and if you have an opinion about it. Also, if anyone knows of a good cheap way to get new readers, I'm all ears! When you linked to this earlier in the thread, the "tummyache from the previous night's dinner" comic quite literally sparked off a rather severe episode of my recurrent clinical depression. I've had to abort an attempt at adjusting my medication because of it. This is not meant as criticism or a complaint. The last time something along those lines caused this to occur was when I watched Don Hertzfeldt's "I Am So Proud Of You" for the first time, and for similar reasons.
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 12:49 |
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Zhumma posted:Since this thread has more or less died again, I might as well ask if anybody here has read my comic http://www.korvapuusti.com and if you have an opinion about it. Also, if anyone knows of a good cheap way to get new readers, I'm all ears! I love this. Also I love your first strip homage to the first strip of Calvin and Hobbes. I have to admit, though, that I have no idea what's going on in most of the strips, and yet I don't care that I don't know what's going on. Something about the artwork is so lively and pleasant to look at that I'm just going with the flow.
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 13:13 |
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neonnoodle posted:I love this. Also I love your first strip homage to the first strip of Calvin and Hobbes. I have to admit, though, that I have no idea what's going on in most of the strips, and yet I don't care that I don't know what's going on. Something about the artwork is so lively and pleasant to look at that I'm just going with the flow. The comic's kinda stream-of-consciousness but it does adhere to its own internal kind of logic. The long and short of it is as follows: Maya's crazy, dating Lupé and the comic pretty much chronicles their daily lives without much of an overarching plot. But if you look at the "clues" scattered through-out the comic, you can kinda piece together a history for Maya at least. Anyways, the comic's still young and hopefully it'll clear up as time goes by. I'm in the process of mapping out the town of Sandhill, and will hopefully have the first of four maps up by tomorrow. This should help keep track of goings on. Herersiach: That's exactly the kind of reaction I'm going for with these tales bits. I'm so happy (poor choice of words, I know) that I achieved it. As you might guess I'm a pretty depressed person too. Travis: Good ideas, all of them. My two main characters are gay/bi already so this should fit in nicely with the whole brony version of canon if I do decide to make them into horses. Edit: Herersiach, I'm definitely not trying to make people depressed, I'm sorry if I came off that way. Zhumma fucked around with this message at Apr 18, 2012 around 13:33 |
| # ? Apr 18, 2012 13:22 |
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I understand what you meant.
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 14:06 |
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The best free way to advertise is to simply link your comic on social media stuff. (It helps if you're participating in the social bits otherwise.) Putting stuff on TVTropes can be a help, too; I usually get one or two hits a day from there. In general, just take any decent opportunity to say, "Hey, here is a comic you might like!"
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 16:03 |
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Furikku posted:The best free way to advertise is to simply link your comic on social media stuff. (It helps if you're participating in the social bits otherwise.) Putting stuff on TVTropes can be a help, too; I usually get one or two hits a day from there. Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been doing so far. Apart from the TV tropes thing. In comic making news: I'm about to start inking one regular strip, two tales strips and the map. Also painting them afterwards. I'm most excited about the new hairstyles and clothes I got to draw for my leading couple.
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 16:09 |
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Furikku posted:The best free way to advertise is to simply link your comic on social media stuff. (It helps if you're participating in the social bits otherwise.) Putting stuff on TVTropes can be a help, too; I usually get one or two hits a day from there. Do you mean creating a TVTropes article for you own comic? I've considered doing this but felt like it was some kind of breach of... creator ethics, I guess? When I actually think about it, though, advertising comics is probably a much better use for TVTropes than what it's actually intended for, so I don't really know why I felt this way. I guess I've just worried that it'd be frowned upon and I'm supposed to wait for some intrepid "troper" to create the article. It really does seem like it'd be a steady source of traffic and readers. edit: Also, in re: cheaper advertising, targeting ads can sometimes yield really good results. I've focused my ad bids on Cucumber Quest before (oddly enough when I do this I end up competing primarily with Sandra and Woo) which has gotten a lot of hits, and I also made this for Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff, which shot up to the top of my GA referrer stats within a couple of days: 
Fortis fucked around with this message at Apr 18, 2012 around 17:27 |
| # ? Apr 18, 2012 17:12 |
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Fortis posted:Do you mean creating a TVTropes article for you own comic? I've considered doing this but felt like it was some kind of breach of... creator ethics, I guess? When I actually think about it, though, advertising comics is probably a much better use for TVTropes than what it's actually intended for, so I don't really know why I felt this way. I guess I've just worried that it'd be frowned upon and I'm supposed to wait for some intrepid "troper" to create the article. It really does seem like it'd be a steady source of traffic and readers. I made the pages for both my comics. It feels a little weird, granted, but I don't think there's any ethical issues. (Other than I guess using the description to lead readers into conclusions they couldn't reach with the story alone.) The tricky part for me was keeping in mind what aspects of the stories have actually come up. Also putting your comic in the relevant trope pages helps, just because it gets more people to see it and maybe decide, "Hey, I need to read that poo poo right now!" I never really got the hate people have for TVTropes (other than apparently if you get into the community area, it is full of creepy). I've always seen it as a kind of neat resource for "has this been done before, and how?" ideas, a way to sometimes stumble onto stuff I want to read/watch, and sometimes a resource for extra info about something's production.
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 17:43 |
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I cited 70-Seas in all the relevant articles I could think of, but I had no idea how to make my own page so I just waited for some troper to do it for me. It provides a steady but by no means huge supply of new readers. Most of my hits come from Turtle Island, Tomato Surprise, Neck Snap, and Squee.
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 18:49 |
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Aww yiss, finally got this huge sucker done http://korvapuusti.com/
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 18:52 |
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Psych posted:I cited 70-Seas in all the relevant articles I could think of, but I had no idea how to make my own page so I just waited for some troper to do it for me. I just copy and paste someone else's articles until I figure things out.
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 19:57 |
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Fortis posted:creator ethics I worry a lot about this as well. Basically, the way I see it, is, if you like a thing are legitimately a fan of a thing, go ahead and make a fanart/tumblr whatever, that way it feels at least legitimate. If you actually like tvtropes, then it's not too weird to put some of your stuff in it. If you like homestuck, I don't really think there's a problem referencing that. It just seems sketchy to me if you're suddenly doing My Little Pony Fanart in solely to fish for hits.. I'm sort of waiting until I get more pages before I begin outwardly promoting my comic. I'm around 50 now, I think once I reach somewhere between 75-100, I'll have to start thinking about it. Self-Promotion seems like a hard thing, but ultimately you can't solely rely on the kindness of others. I think it's definitely important to stick to some sort of ethical guideline...otherwise you might lose some of your credibility, or sense of self. It's a bit of a tightrope walk.. Some good ideas have definitely been listed though.
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| # ? Apr 18, 2012 23:48 |
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Semi-related to workflow: does anybody here use a Cintiq, and do you feel that it's made a positive impact on your efficiency compared to a typical tablet? Also, where in the hell can you demo one? Wacom's site is less than helpful, but I have a hard time believing anyone (especially artists) would drop a few grand on something they've never even tried. I'll probably never get a Cintiq, but I wanna play with one so bad.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHV_LCAURXw I've never timed myself when it comes to pages or art -- I'm afraid the truth would make me curl up and die.
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| # ? Apr 19, 2012 01:29 |
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Crisco Kid posted:Semi-related to workflow: does anybody here use a Cintiq, and do you feel that it's made a positive impact on your efficiency compared to a typical tablet? Also, where in the hell can you demo one? Wacom's site is less than helpful, but I have a hard time believing anyone (especially artists) would drop a few grand on something they've never even tried. I'll probably never get a Cintiq, but I wanna play with one so bad. The one place I've ever been able to find that had Cintiqs you could demo was a photography supply store (Pro Photo Supply in Portland, OR fwiw), so you might want to focus your search on that particular niche.
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| # ? Apr 19, 2012 02:00 |
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I've used a cintiq but not extensively. It didn't strike me as much better or worse than a typical tablet, except I could turn the thing easily if I wanted to draw at a different angle. I kept wishing I could see through my hand.
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| # ? Apr 19, 2012 02:02 |
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Fortis posted:edit: Also, in re: cheaper advertising, targeting ads can sometimes yield really good results. I've focused my ad bids on Cucumber Quest before (oddly enough when I do this I end up competing primarily with Sandra and Woo) which has gotten a lot of hits, and I also made this for Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff, which shot up to the top of my GA referrer stats within a couple of days: I highly recommend everyone do exactly this just because SBaHJ-style ads are a ton of fun to create. 
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| # ? Apr 19, 2012 02:29 |
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I ended up getting a 12-inch cintiq used on ebay for about 800 and I can honestly say it's been a big boon for me. Even after using a tablet for five or six years, the difference in comfort was so significant it felt just as amazing as the first time I used a tablet to draw into a computer. I use the thing for hours every day and I've finally gotten proper desk and button layout to where everything's exactly where I need it to be. If you can't afford one and you're not sure how much you really need it its okay to wait, but if you have the money or you know you'll use it daily it's absolutely worth the investment.
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| # ? Apr 19, 2012 05:29 |
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Speaking of tablets, does anyone sketch out their comics in pencil and then go over it with a tablet? If you do, do you find it takes longer than if you just did everything digitally? I've had a tablet for a while but can't seem to break away from doing everything in pencil first and then going over it.
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| # ? Apr 19, 2012 06:02 |
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Space-Bird posted:I'm sort of waiting until I get more pages before I begin outwardly promoting my comic. I'm around 50 now, I think once I reach somewhere between 75-100, I'll have to start thinking about it. Self-Promotion seems like a hard thing, but ultimately you can't solely rely on the kindness of others. I think it's definitely important to stick to some sort of ethical guideline...otherwise you might lose some of your credibility, or sense of self. It's a bit of a tightrope walk.. Some good ideas have definitely been listed though. I think the rule of thumb is at least 20 pages, actually! Project Wonderful accepts comics with more than 30 pages, so that's a decent guideline, too. I think you can hold off on self-promotion as long as you want to, of course, but don't wait too long, or the archives will get too intimidating for a significant chunk of people. 50 comics seems about right to apply to PW and start advertising.
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| # ? Apr 19, 2012 07:06 |
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Crisco Kid posted:Semi-related to workflow: does anybody here use a Cintiq, and do you feel that it's made a positive impact on your efficiency compared to a typical tablet? Also, where in the hell can you demo one? Wacom's site is less than helpful, but I have a hard time believing anyone (especially artists) would drop a few grand on something they've never even tried. I'll probably never get a Cintiq, but I wanna play with one so bad. I've got the 21UX and I hemmed and hawed about getting it for years. I don't regret buying it, but I can say I'm disappointed in the experience of using it, compared to what I expected. Drawing on glass sucks. Painting on glass, on the other hand, is pretty much fine. So I find I do most of my rough work and sketches in pencil, and then do lots of color things on the Cintiq. And yet it's STILL not as responsive as natural media!! Argh. It's so frustrating to tease apart the advantages and disadvantages of it. I bought mine right when I was finishing up a big freelance animation project, and for animation it was indispensable. I did 30 seconds of full animation in color, paperlessly. I simply could not have done the project without it. For my comic, I started out doing things 100% digital, but was never satisfied with the responsiveness or range of expression of inking digitally, because I like a really loose brushy style. Now I do all my penciling and inking traditionally, but do a ton of touch-up work on the Cintiq, which makes life easier but which is not really any easier or more efficient than doing that level of work on an Intuos/Bamboo. Actually, the more I think about it, the more it seems like the benefit of the device is dependent on the style of work you do. If, like Dave Gibbons, you do very clean linework and want tight control, it's the best. If you like sketchy/painterly rough work, it's harder to get that spontaneity and responsiveness on the Cintiq. I also got a chance to test out a Cintiq at Hunt Photo. The period of time I had to test it (around 15 minutes) didn't tell me all that much. If you want to test one, here's what I suggest: - call Wacom and ask them where you can demo one in your area. They are really helpful over the phone when I've talked to them, and tend to have an excellent understanding of their product line. - see if there are any art schools in your area which have one in their computer lab.
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| # ? Apr 19, 2012 12:30 |
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've tried calling local businesses and schools, but I hadn't thought to contact Wacom directly yet. On another note, I've got a few scans ya'll might enjoy. I think somebody (Kismet?) asked for texture references way, waaay back in the thread, and I found a book illustrating different methods to depict textures in ink. From The Art of Comic Book Inking:         I also have several scans from Drawing Words and Writing Pictures that cover inking, lettering, and panel choice if anyone is interested. Some info on nibs:   If you're familiar with MangaStudio, a few of these nib types will be familiar. One of the many nice things about that program is the breadth of options for your inking tools. I've compared MS's pens with the chart from DW&WP to see how they size up -- correction is off, size set at 2 mm. 
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| # ? Apr 21, 2012 17:47 |
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It wasn't me, but these are amazing and I'm going to start abusing the hell out of denser textures. Thanks so much for posting them. E: I just saw the part about Drawing Words and Writing Pictures - I'd love to see those pages too! Hand lettering is something I'm really trying to absorb wisdom on right now. Kismet fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2012 around 03:20 |
| # ? Apr 21, 2012 20:06 |
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Some notes on lettering. These guys are clearly on the "mixed" side of the great All Caps vs. Mixed Case lettering debate.    More on nibs:  Brushwork and inking. I find it interesting that the authors don't recommend using tones and ink washes due to difficulties in reproduction. I'm assuming this is because the book is aimed at students in a classroom environment who won't have access to expensive printers for their projects.      I really liked the discussion on panel choices and blocking. Think Wally Wood's 22 Panels That Work on steroids. Here are 60 panels that illustrate a single scene broken down by how aesthetic choices affect the message being conveyed.  This book wasn't quite the revelation that McCloud's Making Comics was -- but that was one of the first comic theory and process books I ever read and almost everything was new to me. Still, Drawing Words and Writing Pictures is designed as a textbook for making comics, and I'd still put it near the top of the class as far as instructional books go. The pages I've uploaded here were of particular interest to me, but as you can see it's a pretty long, comprehensive text. This is just a tiny fraction of the book and I'm happy to post more, but it's worth supporting the authors if these pages catch your interest. 
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 15:39 |
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Eh, what the hell - I'm livestreaming some comic work (natural media) right now if anybody wants to pop in: http://livestream.com/elvis_needs_boats
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 22:18 |
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I'm trying to commit to some ideas but I've always been clueless about scanning my work. I'm really picky about getting the colors right but it always ends up looking different than on paper. Here's a test image: I scan at 600dpi and then fiddle with the levels and color correction until everything looks decent. My biggest issue are the shadows created by the wrinkles in the paper. I've tried leaning on the door while scanning but those disgusting sunspots still show up. I'd appreciate any advice.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 02:10 |
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al-azad posted:My biggest issue are the shadows created by the wrinkles in the paper. I've tried leaning on the door while scanning but those disgusting sunspots still show up. I'd appreciate any advice. Oh, yeah watercolor can create wrinkles, because the water causes the fibers in the paper to shrink and expand oddly as you're applying paint. There are a couple methods for controlling that: 1. Get yourself a piece of flat, waterproof masonite board, and some watercolor paper. Dip the paper in distilled water, then tape that wet paper to the board with watercolor tape (it is a kind of tape with adhesive that only activates while wet). This is called 'stretching' the paper, and it will keep it nice and stiff while it dries. Watercolor applied on top will not cause it to wrinkle, because the tape's holding it smooth for you. After you're done and it's completely dry, cut out the paper from the board with an exacto knife. Presto! Watercolors on a perfectly flat sheet of paper, should scan nice. 2. Get cold press, hot press, or illustration board, and as long as you don't go overboard with slopping water on, it should stay pretty flat. Each of the different boards reacts uniquely to paint so that's fun too. !!I know you asked for scanning tips but it seemed like the problem was that your substrate was wrinkly, so forgive me if you're already doing stuff to make sure the paper's flat, or you won't/can't buy substrate that suits the media.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 03:39 |
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Crisco Kid posted:On another note, I've got a few scans ya'll might enjoy. I think somebody (Kismet?) asked for texture references way, waaay back in the thread, and I found a book illustrating different methods to depict textures in ink. From The Art of Comic Book Inking: ahhhh Thanks so much for these texture guides, they're great!!!
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 06:11 |
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Man I love coloring my comics with watercolors, only problem is that the paper I have to use (this thick rear end hanart aqua thing) is really pricy. I've tried to paint on inferior paper, but like was mentioned, it gets all wrinkled up to hell when I do that. As for the person asking about scanning, I don't know your process but for me I find that painting on a different sheet of paper than the lineart works best. Just add the colors on a new layer in Photoshop (multiply) and there: perfectly clean lineart and independently adjustable colors.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 06:18 |
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Serious question. How do you guys keep going in the face of (apparent or actual) incompetence? Like, I'm having lots of trouble finishing things, because I hate them so much and I keep thinking about how I'm not doing the story justice and will never be able to.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 11:34 |
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weavernaut posted:How do you guys keep going in the face of (apparent or actual) incompetence? I keep repeating a mantra of "you're the best you can do this" and just push thru the doubt and dread. A regular schedule helps too. That way you don't have the luxury to rip stuff up too much, since you have to be able to deliver something on time.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 13:20 |
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weavernaut posted:Serious question. Three things: 1. Get to know when and why that feeling sets in. I've found that for some obscure reason, I always feel crushingly pathetic and discouraged at exactly the same stage in pencilling every page, where I just want to toss the whole thing and start again (and maybe sob and flagellate myself a little). Knowing that this happens every time, I make a point of pushing through that stage and finishing the page anyway, and the outcome is always perfectly fine. I guess I just really hate seeing the messy parts of my own process. 2. Recognise that every page of every story is part of a continuum. I may not be a master storyteller/draftsman/inker today, but I'm determined to get there eventually. And every day that I don't stop telling whatever story I'm on is another day my work gets better. Blacksad, one of my favourite comics of all time, started out as the pet project of the writer alone - you can see a couple of pages from the original comic reprinted in the artbook - and at that stage it really was pretty cramped, generic and unmemorable. Point is, you can draw and redraw and remix your ideas again and again throughout your career as your skills and circumstances change. Nobody gets to tell you otherwise. 3. If you ever feel like you are doing your story justice, it's probably a sign that you're not looking hard enough for better ways to do things. Speaking personally again, I probably get about half an hour's satisfaction from each new page I finish before the critical brain kicks back in and points out all things I could/should have done differently. I don't take it as evidence that I've failed, I take it as reassurance that next time I approach this scene it will be with more ideas and better forewarning of the pitfalls. You know who is satisfied with the consistent quality of their output? A Person With A Stagnant Comic.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 13:45 |
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weavernaut posted:Serious question. Personally I look at the first page of my comic and then I look at the 125th page, which was published exactly a year after the first, in order to remind myself how far I've come. Then I look at the LATEST page and look for ways I've improved even more since the 125th page, and then I feel a little better. I also blast music that gets me pumped, in BSF's case usually 'Airbrushed' by Anamnaguchi. I guess really what I mean to say is that there is always that creeping and sometimes frankly overwhelming doubt, so don't let its presence bother you. The fact is that it happens to everyone, even people who are extremely talented. As long as you can overcome it, do your best, and press forward, even if the page you make doesn't look like the best to you, you're a cut above the rest, because you actually finished one more page where a lot of people would have thrown their hands up in the air and said "gently caress it".
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 14:15 |
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weavernaut posted:How do you guys keep going in the face of (apparent or actual) incompetence? Like, I'm having lots of trouble finishing things, because I hate them so much and I keep thinking about how I'm not doing the story justice and will never be able to. 1. Everyone feels that way. The best way to get the confidence to beat it is to have old stories to look back on to prove to yourself that you're not entirely incompetent. 2. The best way to have old stories is to give yourself a firm schedule that'll force you to finish pages regularly.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 14:40 |
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| # ? May 21, 2013 08:43 |
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Psych posted:1. Everyone feels that way. Not everyone feels that way. The ones that don't become the Mookies, Buckleys, and Dobsons of the world. It's sort of how if you can still question your own sanity, you're not fully insane yet.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 16:27 |
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