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Xguard86 posted:lineage and what not is really not a big deal to most Catch wrestlers. hahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahah
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Feb 2, 2011 21:52
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Death Bucket posted:I think BJJ guys are way worse about the lineage thing - the only real animosity I've found as far as catch goes is toward dorks like Cecchine and Furey, though I can count on one hand the number of guys I've met in the past few years that claim catch. I guess if I went to an SCA meeting and started talking about Lancashire wrestling it might get goony. The only BJJ people that really get persnickety over lineage are Rorian and his boys, and that's because Rorian is a money-grubbing businessman who literally sued the rest of his family to prevent them from using "Gracie Jiujitsu" to describe their schools.
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Feb 2, 2011 22:27
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Xguard86 posted:Also people like the Machados who are not Gracies are seperate from that lineage and wouldn't use Gracie Jiu-jitsu, even if they were legally permitted. The Machados aren't really separate from the Gracie lineage; they're Carlos Gracie's nephews and learned BJJ from him. Good find on Oswaldo, though; I'd never heard of him.
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Feb 2, 2011 22:39
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Cecchine's entire "hooks vs concession holds" thing is just blatantly stupid on the face of it Any submission will break bones and rip tendons if you do it without giving a guy time to tap, so there isn't actually any difference between "hooks" and "concession holds" - which should be pretty obvious since he's demonstrating "hooks" and the guys he's demonstrating on mysteriously are able to tap before their arms explode! "Hooks" vs "concession holds" is just an attempt to distinguish between his "catch" material and other grappling instructionals, when the reality is there's very little difference and what few there are are really just minor stylistic variations. LAOH was kind of worthwhile when it came out because it had a lot of leglock and neck crank stuff at a time when not a lot of people were teaching that, but these days where you can buy literally hundreds of hours worth of material on any set of techniques you could name from legitimate world champions who've done all those techniques in elite competition, I can't fathom why anyone would bother spending money on Cecchine's material. EDIT: And even at the time I thought Igor Yakimov's leglock set was better for that side of things anyway
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Feb 3, 2011 01:33
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KidDynamite posted:That's not a real grappling match though since that guy wasn't a black belt in BJJ. A) Yes he was B) Even if he wasn't how would that make it "not a real grappling match"
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Feb 3, 2011 02:28
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KidDynamite posted:Oh I was under the impression he was some Judo guy or whatever. Nope quote:And it wasn't "real" as in the high level matches are slower paced than this. and not as funny. Observe the slow pace
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Feb 3, 2011 02:31
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Dante posted:What you're actually doing is hyperextending the foot straining the ligaments on top of the foot to the point where they might snap, you can rotate and dig with your wrist to cause pain in the achilles tendon but it's not going to gently caress it up and people don't tap to pain in the higher levels. Properly applied, a straight footlock will actually break the bones of the foot (the metatarsals), not just the ligaments. ch3cooh posted:My only quibble with the informational posts is the one describing various positions and subs. Your half guard section says that the top fighter is harder to sweep. I think that while in MMA that is true (lord knows I would never go to deep half if I could be punched in the face) but in straight grappling looking at a lot of the work done by guys like Marcelo, half guard is seriously dangerous position for sweeps. In my experience I have found sweeping from half (and it's variants) to be far easier than full guard (except butterfly, sweet sweet butterfly guard) Marcelo actually very rarely sweeps or indeed does anything from half guard; he uses half almost exclusively to get to X-guard or back to seated guard. When you see half guard sweeps in elite competition it's usually from the deep half, of which Jeff Glover is an excellent example. Interestingly the Nogueira brothers have both used deep-half sweeps extensively in MMA (Big Nog against Werdum and Little Nog against Shogun are good examples) although they play it quite different from Glover.
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Feb 3, 2011 03:03
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Dante posted:Yeah this is true, I was correcting that people don't tap from the achilles pressure they tap from the ligament strain really. Hopefully people will tap before the bones go. Unfortunately I've seen quite a few guys at tournaments wind up with broken feet because of not tapping to it. I blame Bas.
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Feb 3, 2011 03:14
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Lucasar posted:I'm showing my ignorance here, but does Sumo count as a grappling sport? Yes, albeit one with little mma representation/application quote:I know very little about it, but everything I read or watch fascinates me. I know Akebono has tried to do a little MMA or kickboxing here and there, but he just doesn't have the conditioning for it - a round of Sumo wrestling takes about 5 to 40 seconds in general, as opposed to 5 minute rounds in MMA and several of them. How much do MMA guys, particularly those of Judo extraction, know of Sumo techniques? Machida actually competed in Sumo a little, but his trips and throws are mostly from wrestling and karate. If you're asking if regular mma fighters study sumo, then no. quote:Is there a big difference between Judo and Sumo throws? In sumo you give up a point as soon as anything that isn't the soles of your feet touch the ground, and also as soon as you get pushed out of the (small) circle, so the techniques are a lot more limited. There are some throws that are common between it and judo, so in that sense judo guys know some "sumo" technique. quote:Put differently, if there was a weightclass in MMA that accomodated Sumo physiques, would Sumo be important? Not even a little. quote:If this isn't the right place to ask, is there anybody from the combat sports crowd who knows enough to start a Sumo thread? I doubt there'd be enough interest to really sustain a Sumo thread, but if someone knowledgeable would like to start one, please feel free.
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Feb 3, 2011 03:41
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SpoonmanUK posted:I keep meaning to ask and forgetting; what exactly is reaping the knee, http://goatfury.blogspot.com/2009/05/us-grappling-rules-straight-footlock.html quote:and why is it banned in some competitions? Because the IBJJF are a bunch of pussies.
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Feb 3, 2011 03:54
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Oh Em Gee posted:Why the gently caress did the Gracies wrestle? To get better at it and to improve. Some guys like a challenge, and want to prove their style of grappling (sambo, catch wrestling, judo etc) is just as effective and relevant as BJJ so why not go and prove it on their grounds? IIRC Josh Barnett absolutely beasted through the IBJFF No-Gi world champions even though they specifically had banned two of Josh's main weapons, neck cranks and heel hooks (correct me if I'm wrong, just going off of memory) and he absolutely destroyed everyone he faced. If by "absolutely destroyed" you mean "got a judge's decision after a scoreless tie" Also Barnett trains under a BJJ black belt so calling anything he does proof of the effectiveness of catch wrestling is kind of retarded
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Feb 4, 2011 05:45
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Oh Em Gee posted:Dear god you are being a pedant, just because you cross train doesn't mean you are suddenly apart of that style. Erik Paulson has trained in multiple, multiple styles and therefore could be called any number of things not just a BJJ black belt. Paulson trained in BJJ much longer than he trained in catch, and his first art was judo. I never said Josh was "a part" of BJJ, but when a guy trains under a BJJ black belt for ten years, calling him beating a BJJ guy "proof of his style of grappling" is really pretty stupid.
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Feb 4, 2011 17:23
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Grab Your Foot! posted:I've always been partial to his single actually; ceci n'est pas running the pipe. The Treachery of Suplexes
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Feb 15, 2011 21:52
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Thoguh posted:There was a second girl who qualified in the same weight class. Her opponents just went out and wrestled her and nobody made a big deal about it. Also his coach and the rest of his team are going to be on him unmercifully for pretty much the rest of the year if not longer.
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Feb 17, 2011 22:55
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kimbo305 posted:What makes it harder in MMA? The striking from the bottom seems to be such a small facet of the mount that I don't see what would change that much. Which choke is he applying? Is it a no-gi choke? Do gloves become an issue? He's not talking about a specific choke being harder to finish, he's saying that it is harder in mma to finish people from mount, full stop. Which is perfectly reasonable since there are a ton of gi chokes from mount in bjj which, obviously, aren't available in mma.
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Feb 20, 2011 07:22
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kimbo305 posted:So this bit: "sport jiujitsu" is BJJ, which takes place with the gi. No gi grappling isn't sport jiujitsu, it's no gi grappling.
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Feb 20, 2011 07:41
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the periodic fable posted:i've tried to figure out why jacare wouldn't eventually get disqualified for passivity or timidity? i thought continuously, consciously escaping the fighting area was a penalty offense The ref docked him points for it twice, but he'd taken Roger's back earlier so he was still ahead.
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Feb 20, 2011 19:30
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the periodic fable posted:i'm not sure about the point rules, would the third offense be a disqualification if the time hadn't run out? I believe it's up to referee discretion; I would imagine that most guys would have gotten dqed already but the ref was nervous about straight up disqualifying a really high-profile competitor in the finals of the world championships. Also while it's gotten better in the past few years, refereeing in sport jiujitsu and nogi is one of the biggest clownshows in combat sports. Seriously if you were a wrestler or a judo competitor watching a couple jiujitsu refs is enough to make you spit bile.
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Feb 20, 2011 19:56
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One of the things I've been bitching about for years is that takedowns or sweeps or passes to someone's turtle should be worth points, just like sweeping or passing to side control. I think encouraging people to give up their backs to nullify points breeds bad habits for mma and has no compelling reason to exist in grappling.
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Feb 21, 2011 01:26
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BJ is ridiculously talented, and also he was training full time, 6-7 days a week and often twice a day.
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Feb 25, 2011 17:53
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Chortles posted:It should also be added that BJJ itself -- as a discipline separate from Kodokan judo -- began with Helio Gracie adapting the techniques of judo ("Kano Jiu-Jitsu") as taught by Mitsuyo Maeda to his brother Carlos, to fit his "scrawnier" self. This is the popular myth, but it's basically bullshit from Helio's side. BJJ as a separate discipline was a product of all the brothers, and Helio's version didn't differ significantly from Carlos'. If anything the major sea-change in BJJ came from Carlos' son Rolles, who was basically acknowledged by everyone (including Rickson) as being the best in the family, and was the one that started training in wrestling and Sambo to complement his BJJ.
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Mar 1, 2011 16:49
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$220/month. The advanced class on Monday had five black belts, three brown belts, eight purples, and ten blues. That's pretty average for a Monday.
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Mar 4, 2011 01:46
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Grifter posted:But Ribeiro has won 3 out of the last 4. where are you reading that, because I'm pretty sure it's not true
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Mar 4, 2011 22:14
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henkman posted:Yeah but it's useless for everything except doing gi. Nope.
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Mar 5, 2011 02:01
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henkman posted:People don't walk around on the sidewalk wearing Gis, sorry. Correct, people never wear long sleeve jackets and pants in real life. quote:In Nogi and MMA you'll be used to having grips that aren't there. You're not gonna be good in nogi or mma unless you do some training nogi and mma, but you said henkman posted:Yeah but it's useless for everything except doing gi. Which is obviously untrue since the majority of people who are top sub guys in no-gi and mma spend most of their time training gi
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Mar 5, 2011 02:11
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henkman posted:Said guys probably do not train gi only, though. They also train nogi and mma because gi is useless except for gi, and If gi training was useless for nogi, Marcelo Garcia wouldn't be crushing dudes in nogi training nogi once a week and gi six times a week. QED.
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Mar 5, 2011 02:17
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henkman posted:I'd imagine he'd be beating guys left and right no matter what he trained. See if you can follow me here - If training in the gi is useless for no gi, then effectively Garcia was only training once a week while crushing his divisions (and, incidentally, so were Saulo and Xande) Which is more likely - A) Garcia is so gifted that he can crush people at nogi even if he were training nogi one day a week and training something completely useless the rest of the time B) Gi training and no gi training each prepare you most specifically for gi and nogi training, respectively, but both of them make you better at grappling and each helps the other
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Mar 5, 2011 02:30
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henkman posted:It's probably a bit of both (although I'd rather it'd be all A since that helps my case) Fortunately for me, B is the one that's actually reasonable
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Mar 5, 2011 02:34
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henkman posted:Really because A seems pretty reasonable too. You don't think Marcelo is naturally gifted enough to beat people training 1 day a week in something useful? Beat people? Yes. Beat other guys who are the best at their weight in the world, training no-gi grappling full-time? No. Pretty much everybody who's elite at no-gi trains in the gi and says it helps them. If you want to believe they're all wrong or that it's a big conspiracy, that's your right as a human being, but don't delude yourself into thinking your position is equally reasonable or supported.
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Mar 5, 2011 02:40
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Grab Your Foot! posted:Speaking of, how does the no posture pass work for people here? I worry that trying to develop it too much tends to make me neglect working on other kinds of passing and I'm just not sure if I can hone it to the point where it can be a go-to pass. Anybody getting a lot of mileage out of it? I worked on it for a while, but ultimately decided to put it away because it didn't fit well into the rest of my passing game at the time. Watching Wilson Reis and Tozi in competition it certainly seems to be something you can use as a go-to if you work at it, especially if you have a strong half-guard passing game.
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Mar 12, 2011 03:51
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When guys try it with me I never really feel like I'm in a position to get the back; what they do seem to give me a lot is opportunities to bow-and-arrow choke
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Mar 12, 2011 04:31
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I'm pretty sure Holanda got his black belt from Busta.
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Mar 15, 2011 17:45
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Xguard86 posted:more along the lines of TUF where the debate was that he would be a lovely coach because 'be a genetic freak" is not a teachable skill. And as has been pointed out multiple times, how good a coach Brock is will be more or less irrelevant because he's bringing in excellent coaches that are going to do all the actual coaching
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Mar 15, 2011 19:46
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dokomoy posted:The IBJJF Pan Jiu Jitsu Tournament(which is a stupid name btw) is streaming next weekend at budovideos.com(I think it's going to cost 10 bucks and there should be 10+ hours worth of matches). Does anyone have any interest in a write up like the one Mardragon did for the NCAA's? Absolutely.
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Mar 18, 2011 01:21
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Netflix actually does have two Best of ADCC dvds, although it doesn't have any of the full year sets unfortunately.
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Mar 21, 2011 06:11
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Thoguh posted:Which brings upmy big problem with the Gracie Barra way of doing things (and the reason other than cost I reccomend checking out other places if they are available) - you'll work on that sweep this week, and then move on to another set of techniques next week. This is like every bjj place on the face of the planet, not just Gracie Barra. Nothing prevents you from continuing to work on that sweep next week.
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Mar 22, 2011 14:35
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Thoguh posted:This is how it works at a Gracie Barra Academy beginner class: None of which would prevent you from working the guard sweep you did last time in the next session where you started from guard.
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Mar 22, 2011 15:43
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shizen posted:so I have been researching John Olav Einemo since he is fighting carwin soon. I found it interesting in a recent interview he said it took him 12 years to get his black belt. Yet he said he started training in 1997, and in 2001 was competing at adcc and made it to the semi finals losing to arnoa who become champion. Then in 03 he won the whole thing beating roger gracie-only guy to ever beat him at adcc also I guess- He did a lot of his training with just lower-ranked training partners and students in Norway, only visiting higher ranked people who could actually belt rank him very seldomly. He was technically a blue belt when he beat Roger.
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Mar 25, 2011 03:38
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shizen posted:wow that is crazy he was able to have so much success without many high level guys training with him. Also pretty cool that adcc was one of the few in brazil also when he beat roger. Why did he stop fighting/grappling for so long though? A series of staph infections and knee injuries iirc
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Mar 25, 2011 04:37
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