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So just how useless is Constance Garnetts translation? I picked up her War and Peace at a book sale but don't want to commit to it if it's worth hanging out for something better.
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| # ? Mar 14, 2011 15:00 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 19:39 |
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Pfirti86 posted:Hmm, Bulgarian lit does sound like a neat subgenre. Any that you'd recommend (that maybe have been translated to English)? Other than the ubiquitous Under the Yoke it can be kind of hard to find in translation. Hristo Botev is probably the most famous of Bulgarian poets, and Debelyanov was quite good (and a tragic story). Yordan Yovkov's "Indzhe" is probably my favorite short-story because it's almost like a Western and shows how the haiduks were kind of the cowboys of Eastern Europe (in terms of the place they occupy in the historical imagination), but I can't find the translation anywhere. Which is strange, because I specifically remember reading it in translation. I can find it in German, which doesn't help much. Yovkov is probably my favorite Bulgarian writer, though Vazov is the most famous. Elias Canetti was a Bulgarian Jew who won the Nobel Prize for literature about 30 years ago, but I think he wrote in German or English.
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| # ? Mar 14, 2011 20:23 |
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Started reading The Master and Margarita earlier today, still working through the translator's introduction but I'm psyched for the book. Have read a fair amount of Russian lit and learned a lot about Soviet history in undergrad so I'm happy to finally get around to reading this.
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| # ? Apr 21, 2011 16:28 |
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Anyone have any suggestions for 20th century Russian lit? I'd especially like to read anything about the Revolution and the civil wars - I've got Dr. Zhivago on hold at the library. I've also read "A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" and "The Master and Margarita," but that's about the extent of my knowledge of Russian lit post-1900.
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| # ? Apr 21, 2011 16:40 |
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What exactly should I be getting from Pushkin? I just bought The Complete Prose Tales of Alexandr Pushkin a few weeks ago based on this thread. I went in expecting something as good as Dostoevsky and... I'm afraid of being harsh with criticism when I don't know a thing about Pushkin or his era, but I read Queen of Spades and the story was ok but mostly it just felt trite. What am I missing here? Is that really all coming from the translation? Also a friend gifted me the short works of Tolstoy which looks pretty good among the 5 other awesome books he gave me. I'm swamped but content that I now have a good sampling of Tolstoy and Pushkin and almost all of Dostoevsky.
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| # ? Apr 21, 2011 16:43 |
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Chamberk posted:Anyone have any suggestions for 20th century Russian lit? I'd especially like to read anything about the Revolution and the civil wars - I've got Dr. Zhivago on hold at the library. I've also read "A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" and "The Master and Margarita," but that's about the extent of my knowledge of Russian lit post-1900. Babel's Red Cavalry are short stories about a Russian Jew Communist who fought with a Cossack unit in the Civil War and Polish War of Independence. Bely's Petersburg is a bizarre postmodern work that takes place during the 1903 revolution and it's probably my favorite work of Russian literature.
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| # ? Apr 21, 2011 17:12 |
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fret logic posted:What exactly should I be getting from Pushkin? I just bought The Complete Prose Tales of Alexandr Pushkin a few weeks ago based on this thread. I went in expecting something as good as Dostoevsky and... Pushkin is lauded for his prose (he has some really good historical fiction too, like The Captain's Daughter) and you won't lose a lot from translation there. But if he had only written his prose, no one would care about him. He's famous because of his poetry and Eugene Onegin. Read the Falen translation of Eugene Onegin. That's the closest you'll get to Pushkin's best without 4 years of Russian study. Chamberk posted:Anyone have any suggestions for 20th century Russian lit? I'd especially like to read anything about the Revolution and the civil wars - I've got Dr. Zhivago on hold at the library. I've also read "A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" and "The Master and Margarita," but that's about the extent of my knowledge of Russian lit post-1900. Mikhail Sholokhov is a pretty iconic post-WW2 Soviet writer. Quit Flows the Don is his gigantic masterpiece, but I'll never have the courage to read that huge thing. "Fate of a Man" is a pretty great short story. I like Ivan Bunin, too. His short story "Sunstroke" is really well-crafted. vegaji fucked around with this message at Apr 21, 2011 around 17:25 |
| # ? Apr 21, 2011 17:18 |
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vegaji posted:Well, it's hard to say exactly because Pushkin wrote such a huge range of material. "The Queen of Spades" is a pretty good story, but I can see how you weren't blown away by it. This book has The Captain's Daughter in it so I'll try that next. It's not that Queen of Spades wasn't good you're right, I just wasn't blown away by it or the ending. Thanks though, I'll try to find a copy of Eugene Onegin and give that a shot!
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| # ? Apr 21, 2011 17:57 |
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fret logic posted:This book has The Captain's Daughter in it so I'll try that next. It's not that Queen of Spades wasn't good you're right, I just wasn't blown away by it or the ending. Thanks though, I'll try to find a copy of Eugene Onegin and give that a shot! I'm signed up for a 19th Century Russian Lit class next semester. I'm pretty excited, and it'll be taught by the newly-hired associate professor who is an Tolstoy expert. Maybe I'll actually finish the last 1/2 of War and Peace finally. vegaji fucked around with this message at Apr 21, 2011 around 19:41 |
| # ? Apr 21, 2011 19:37 |
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Gabbleduck posted:So just how useless is Constance Garnetts translation? I picked up her War and Peace at a book sale but don't want to commit to it if it's worth hanging out for something better. Here's a really interesting comparison of different translations from The Brothers Karamazov: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~karamazo/translations.html For some reason I had a much easier time reading Pevear and Volokhonsky's translation of Crime and Punishment compared to Garnett's, but I feel like this passage really lights up the good side of Garnett's style. I don't speak Russian but I have heard that Garnett takes some liberties with the literal prose and can sometimes omit a bit of information here and there - but I will say that her works feel more evocative to me personally as an English reader. After reading her C & P and then switching to Pevear and Volokhonsky I got real excited and went out to buy a bunch of their other works. I'm starting to regret it. I'm mostly looking for a compromise between their very to-the-point, academic style and Garnett's more flowing and less literal interpretation. Some more examples from the opening of Crime and Punishment, Part III: Garnett: " 'I will stay with him,' cried Razumikhin, 'I won't leave him for a moment. drat all my visitors! Let them rage to their hearts' content! My uncle can keep an eye on them.' " Pevear & Volokhonsky: " 'I'll stay with him!' cried Razumikhin. 'I won't leave him for a moment; devil take all the people at my place, let them climb the walls! They've got my uncle for a president.' " The Garnett version clearly interprets some of the figurative statements differently (my guess is less accurately judging from critiques I've heard) but look at Pevear's word choice: "They've got my uncle for a president" ? It sounds loving ridiculous. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't be immediately turned off by Garnett's alleged lack of faithfulness. Hit up the library or book store and read a few of the same passages from different translations and figure out which one suits your tastes best. War and Peace is a big loving book, I think that placing pure accuracy before readability is a waste of time.
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| # ? Apr 21, 2011 21:37 |
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Garnett is despised because she straight-up omitted information that she founded to be too risque and controversial, or did not understand with her gaps of knowledge of Russian.
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| # ? Apr 21, 2011 21:41 |
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vegaji posted:Garnett is despised because she straight-up omitted information that she founded to be too risque and controversial, or did not understand with her gaps of knowledge of Russian. Can you point me to translations of some of the major works that retain her lyrical prose without her excisions?
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| # ? Apr 21, 2011 21:43 |
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ketamino posted:Can you point me to translations of some of the major works that retain her lyrical prose without her excisions? This is the edition I read: http://www.amazon.com/Idiot-Modern-...3422402&sr=1-26 It is a "new rendition" that is "based off of" Garnett's translation. I think that's exactly what you're looking for. Unfortunately, that edition is out of print -- I found it in my school's library. I think that this is the same translation: http://www.amazon.com/Idiot-Barnes-...03422386&sr=1-1 vegaji fucked around with this message at Apr 21, 2011 around 21:51 |
| # ? Apr 21, 2011 21:47 |
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vegaji posted:I'm not sure about your grasp on Russian history, but if you are into it, then The Captain's Daughter is great. If you aren't too familiar with the Pugachev Rebellion, then hold off on it until after you read some of his better stuff. The best part of the book (to me, at least) is how Pugachev is described and fleshed out. I know very little russian history pre 1900 (go figure), but my sister had a copy of The Brothers K, I had heard it was good so gave it a shot and fell in love with Dostoevsky. Anyway, reading that it felt like very little was lost in the translation so that opened me up to other russian authors, which I'm working on getting into now. Thanks again for your suggestions 
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| # ? Apr 22, 2011 19:21 |
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Perhaps slightly off-topic, but seeing as many of you are also fluent in Russian, do you have any reliable American sources where you buy Russian-language books? Nearly all my Russian-language collection is either gifts from professors or second-hand bookstores here in DC.
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| # ? Apr 22, 2011 21:51 |
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Picked up Eugene Onegin at half price books today! It's now in the endless queue of books ready to be cracked
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| # ? Apr 24, 2011 00:21 |
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I don't think Demons should be poo poo on like that. I like it better than Crime and Punishment and The Idiot. The Brothers Karamazov I almost have to grudgingly accept as better than Demons, because I feel like Demons is so underappreciated, but The Brothers Karamazov is somehow even better. I'm just hoping nobody dismisses the book based on the Dostoevsky bio.
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| # ? Apr 26, 2011 23:54 |
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I'm generally not a huge fan of Russian literature, but I really enjoyed Ilf and Petrov's 12 Chairs and its sequel. It's satire, though, and I'm not sure how well the humor translates. But at least the original is very funny. E: bold!
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| # ? Apr 27, 2011 14:44 |
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fret logic posted:What exactly should I be getting from Pushkin? I just bought The Complete Prose Tales of Alexandr Pushkin a few weeks ago based on this thread. I went in expecting something as good as Dostoevsky and... I wouldn't expect to be 'blown away' by anything Pushkin wrote. I think he's justifiably famous because he was so far superior to everyone that came before him in Russia, but he definitely comes across as 'old-fashioned' at least to most English-speaking people I know. You're just not going to get the gritty realism of a Tolstoy or the insights into modern man of a Dostoevsky.
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| # ? Apr 28, 2011 17:36 |
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fret logic posted:What exactly should I be getting from Pushkin? I just bought The Complete Prose Tales of Alexandr Pushkin a few weeks ago based on this thread. I went in expecting something as good as Dostoevsky and... Expect something different. Pushkin was very much less of a "literary" writer and more of a "storyteller" when it came to prose, if it makes any sense. The prose is extremely solid, honest, and doesn't often delve into the same colors as he does with his poetry. There really is a reason why is known as a poet first and as an author second. If you're curious about history of the time from a rather personal perspective, read his autobiographical... novellas I suppose. They are quite interesting. It's been a while since I've read them, but his descriptions of the Caucas were quite memorable. Speaking of historical prose, I have utterly no clue if it has ever been translated, but Vasilij Jan's "Gengis Khan" is worth a read. It's historical fiction at it's best, but it's one of those books that just kind of draws you in. It's the start of a trilogy too, but that I haven't read.
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| # ? Apr 29, 2011 02:59 |
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lDDQD posted:I'm generally not a huge fan of Russian literature, but I really enjoyed Ilf and Petrov's 12 Chairs and its sequel. It's satire, though, and I'm not sure how well the humor translates. But at least the original is very funny. If you enjoyed that you should watch the movie "Diamond Arm" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjlNAWZ4dVQ Mosfilm, the biggest Soviet movie studio started adding their catalogue on youtube with English Subtitles and I think a lot of the people in the thread will be interested in the movies since a lot of them are based on classic books. Also another Movie based on Ilf and Petrov is Circus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia4D...nel_video_title Alexander Pushkin - Ruslan and Ludmila Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UoO2t536Ko Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTDDGWDYGLc Mikhail Bulgakov - Ivan Vasilievich http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuYu9VvvD4w Master and Margarita A recent mini series based on the books. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H61s7jRmT6M It's not my favorite adaptation, but the cat is super creepy. Nikolai Gogol - Viy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyg0WUsY9HI They're going to be adding about 10 new movies a week and someone started a thread to the Cinema Forums http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...hreadid=3410369 zalmoxes fucked around with this message at May 8, 2011 around 01:30 |
| # ? May 8, 2011 00:59 |
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There's a newish movie out adapting The Duel, one of my favorite Chekhov stories. I wonder if it's any good.
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| # ? May 8, 2011 05:46 |
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Bortko's adaptation of The Master and Margarita was kind of a flop in Russia, if I recall correctly. His adaptation of The Idiot was much more successful, and is rather good. Evgeniy Mironov  I would recommend it.Moroz's adaptation of The Brothers Karamazov was pretty bad in my opinion.
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| # ? May 8, 2011 06:50 |
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Read Bunin, Forum friends.
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| # ? May 9, 2011 02:41 |
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Scabrous Teat posted:Read Bunin, Forum friends. Click and buy this, everyone who has not read Bunin: http://www.amazon.com/Collected-Sto...04909306&sr=1-1 He is a great writer and on the highest tier of 20th century Russian writers.
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| # ? May 9, 2011 02:49 |
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I have seen his Nobel Prize up close and in person 
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| # ? May 9, 2011 05:44 |
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OWLS! posted:Speaking of historical prose, I have utterly no clue if it has ever been translated, but Vasilij Jan's "Gengis Khan" is worth a read. It's historical fiction at it's best, but it's one of those books that just kind of draws you in. It's the start of a trilogy too, but that I haven't read. Had to read that for "Russian School". How I now wish I paid more attention to that than flinging bits of chalk. Knyaz' Serebryanni by A.K. Tolstoy, is a pretty interesting historical fiction account of the conquest of Siberia and life under Ivan Grozny. Bulgakov's Gvardeitsi is underrated, I feel. Poetry wise, Lermontov is the poo poo. I'm not aware of any good translations, but if you read Russian, and haven't read any Lermontov, get crackin'.
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| # ? May 10, 2011 11:54 |
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Smashurbanipal posted:Poetry wise, Lermontov is the poo poo. I'm not aware of any good translations, but if you read Russian, and haven't read any Lermontov, get crackin'. Counterpoint or Addendum: Alexander Blok
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| # ? May 10, 2011 22:05 |
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OWLS! posted:Counterpoint or Addendum: Alexander Blok When compared to Lermontov? No way. I know it's a matter of taste, but Lermontov's poetry could only be compared to Pushkin. Maybe even better than Pushkin in certain ways. I'm of course talking about reading it in the Russian language. Translating poetry rarely works.
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| # ? May 10, 2011 22:17 |
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I just shuddered at the thought of reading Blok, Lermontov, or Pushkin translated. Though thanks, I now have the urge to go reread the attributed-to-Pushkin Shadow of Barkov.
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| # ? May 10, 2011 22:26 |
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OWLS! posted:I just shuddered at the thought of reading Blok, Lermontov, or Pushkin translated. All these guys were pre-internet goons. I remember reading a poem by Eminescu, the great Romanian poet. It was about a girl who goes to confess the priest that she's unhappy with her marriage because her husband has a very tiny penis. Then the priest begins to teach her how to be happy... in very graphic detail.
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| # ? May 10, 2011 22:47 |
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Oblomov is the gooniest goon. I mean come on, sitting about in your dressing gown all day, totally having this girl fall in love with you (but you gently caress it up) and she goes off with your handsome buddy. Then you shack up with a lady who is a pseudo-mother figure, and then you die. Seriously, he was the gooniest goon, and Stolz was the smoothest sexhaver. Aside from that, I'd highly recommend Oblomov to anyone, even those who can't read it in Russian, since Steven Pearl's translation is quite good.
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| # ? May 11, 2011 05:13 |
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zalmoxes posted:I know it's a matter of taste, but Lermontov's poetry could only be compared to Pushkin. Maybe even better than Pushkin in certain ways. Lermontov is more entertaining to read, I always felt, but for sheer mastery, Pushkin wins. Total aside here, If dueling was still legal, I wonder how many goons would have already been killed in duels.
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| # ? May 11, 2011 18:38 |
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Pushkin participated in 29 duels total in his life so it's kind of mindblowing he even lasted that long. He was also descended from an African slave apparently. Speaking of Pushkin I was looking for an english translation of The Gypsies so I could show someone, but there doesn't seem to be one around.
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| # ? May 11, 2011 18:52 |
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zalmoxes posted:Pushkin participated in 29 duels total in his life so it's kind of mindblowing he even lasted that long. He was also descended from an African slave apparently. Yep, his great-grandfather was African and served in Peter the Great's court. Regardless of that knowledge Pushkin did have some super fine sideburns. As for literary stuff, aside from poetry, I always recommend The Captain's Daughter to people. God I really love that story.
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| # ? May 11, 2011 21:06 |
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:Babel's Red Cavalry are short stories about a Russian Jew Communist who fought with a Cossack unit in the Civil War and Polish War of Independence. My uncle just got this cycle for me for my birthday. The introduction describes it as akin to the action films of Sam Peckinpah, except in book form and about Cossacks. That's a pretty great way to pitch a set of stories to me. Are they actually good?
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| # ? May 31, 2011 14:23 |
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Kull the Conqueror posted:My uncle just got this cycle for me for my birthday. The introduction describes it as akin to the action films of Sam Peckinpah, except in book form and about Cossacks. That's a pretty great way to pitch a set of stories to me. Are they actually good? I enjoyed the ones I had to read for classes.
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| # ? May 31, 2011 17:20 |
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I'm starting Dr. Zhivago. Like every other Russian novel, I can't keep anyone straight because everyone has 3 nicknames, but it's really good so far.
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| # ? Jun 3, 2011 15:45 |
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Chamberk posted:I'm starting Dr. Zhivago. Like every other Russian novel, I can't keep anyone straight because everyone has 3 nicknames, but it's really good so far. Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_name Russians are big on using various diminutives, and patronymics but it's easy to keep it in check if you are familiar with the system.
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| # ? Jun 3, 2011 15:55 |
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| # ? May 18, 2013 19:39 |
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Happy Pushkin Day, everyone!
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 14:30 |
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