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It is not as though the US doesn't literally have thousands of vehicles literally rusting in the desert: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2030947,-120.1438894,1300m/data=!3m1!1e3 I am sure something there might come in handy if you were fighting a war. Edit: holy poo poo that is a lot of M1s. That is probably several armored divisions worth of tanks. DoubleEdit: there is also a gigantic field in Tucson with hundreds and hundreds of plans that have a 0% chance of being actually used by the US, but could probably outfit the world's largest obsolete airforce. Except it doesn't matter if the air force is obsolete when IS has no air force. Torpor fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 14:45
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The White House is essentially sending as many aircraft as it thinks it needs in order to look "tough on terror" or whatever the latest euphemism is.
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Oct 24, 2014 14:49
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That is not the only field of tanks, the US has several other fields of tanks. https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...1s0x0:0x0?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...1s0x0:0x0?hl=en
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Oct 24, 2014 15:12
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Torpor posted:It is not as though the US doesn't literally have thousands of vehicles literally rusting in the desert: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2030947,-120.1438894,1300m/data=!3m1!1e3 I'm actually working with the Depot now--it's incredible to see all that armor in person, as far as the eye can see. I was told that most of the armor coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan is going there, where it gets repaired or salvaged as needed and readied for long-term storage. I'm sure someday a lot of this stuff will end up in the hands of our smaller allies, who can't afford and don't need the latest and greatest. The Depot has tons of rail and a 10,000 ft runway--if asked to do so, they can get stuff just about anywhere in a matter of days. Anyway, we all know it's not a lack of capability that stopping the US from providing more support to the Kurds and what's left of the "moderate" Syrian rebels on the ground. Tetraptous fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 15:55
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Cerebral Bore posted:The White House is essentially sending as many aircraft as it thinks it needs in order to look "tough on terror" or whatever the latest euphemism is. I think there's a legitimate concern that the more this conflict is perceived as the US' war, the better for ISIS.
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Oct 24, 2014 16:18
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Atomizer posted:WHY THE gently caress DID YOU MAKE ME CLICK THAT?!? Torpor posted:That is not the only field of tanks, the US has several other fields of tanks. i am harry fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 16:21
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I CAN STILL SEE IT WHEN I CLOSE MY EYES! 
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Ceterum autem censeo ISIS esse delendam
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Oct 24, 2014 16:29
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Thing is, we like the Kurds because they are plucky underdogs, who seem to like all the things we like - secularism, pluralism, free enterprise, equal rights for women, etc. Thing is, our regional allies - Turkey and the Saudis - can't really stand them. Even Israel wants to keep Daash around as a bugbear in the Iran/Syria/Hezbollah axis. Which is why the Kurds have poo poo gear. Edit: Also, the Kurds are mostly a bunch of ex-Commies who have apparently become anarchists, as seen in an article posted earlier. I'm sure if Daash weren't threatening to blow the poo poo out of us, the Realists at the State Department would love to cut a deal with them. ascendance fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 16:54
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ascendance posted:Thing is, we like the Kurds because they are plucky underdogs, who seem to like all the things we like - secularism, pluralism, free enterprise, equal rights for women, etc. There is more than one group of Kurds. They aren't going anywhere so if turkey and the sauds don't like them the US should work to figure out how to allow them to peacefully coexist.
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Oct 24, 2014 17:09
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Torpor posted:There is more than one group of Kurds. They aren't going anywhere so if turkey and the sauds don't like them the US should work to figure out how to allow them to peacefully coexist. But you have to remember that the institutional US, and Turkey, and Saudi Arabia don't really view any of the groups as people - they are tools of foreign policy. Nothing less, nothing more.
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Oct 24, 2014 17:18
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Oct 24, 2014 17:25
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http://m.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2014/1023/Islamic-State-siege-of-Kobane-Did-Turkey-shoot-itself-in-the-foot-video The article suggests that Turkey miscalculated. That is interesting because Erdogan apparently is now limiting the number of KRG troops that can go through turkey to 150 but the allowing 1300 FSA to go to kobane. Except that the YPG doesn't want more FSA fighters in kobane. It appears that Erdogan is attempting to not allow the YPG to have a potential rallying cry/victory.
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Oct 24, 2014 17:31
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ascendance posted:sure, which is the only reason why we can justify letting the ones in Syria hang, while keeping the ones in Iraq on our side. Other groups are always tools of your own foreign policy. In fact every other group is.
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Oct 24, 2014 17:33
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ascendance posted:Edit: Also, the Kurds are mostly a bunch of ex-Commies who have apparently become anarchists, as seen in an article posted earlier. I'm sure if Daash weren't threatening to blow the poo poo out of us, the Realists at the State Department would love to cut a deal with them. quote:The intervention should have sparked celebration, but the protests continued, with Kurds lashing out at the Islamic State and condemning Turkey’s actions. More significantly, the protesters railed against the United States and its allies, including Canada, denouncing Western imperialism and capitalism.
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Oct 24, 2014 17:33
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Honj Steak posted:Der Spiegel did an interview with a high-ranking ISIS recruiter and apparent Salafi "ideological guide" in Turkey: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/is-islamischer-staat-streitgespraech-mit-einem-islamisten-a-998720.html (in German) Is there an english translation of this? I'd like to read their justifications for why western culture must be annihilated.
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Oct 24, 2014 18:51
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Cerebral Bore posted:The White House is essentially sending as many aircraft as it thinks it needs in order to look "tough on terror" or whatever the latest euphemism is. They don't have to send anything, we've had aircraft staged out there for years. Nothing new is coming in, its stuff we've already had there. Torpor posted:DoubleEdit: there is also a gigantic field in Tucson with hundreds and hundreds of plans that have a 0% chance of being actually used by the US, but could probably outfit the world's largest obsolete airforce. Except it doesn't matter if the air force is obsolete when IS has no air force. Most of the aircraft in the boneyard either exceeded their flying hours or are retired for spare parts. While some of them are certainly airworthy, most of them are being saved for a rainy day.. Except for all the B-52s, that was to prove to the Russians that we were sticking to the START treaty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/309th_Aerospace_Maintenance_and_Regeneration_Group CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 19:09
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Apparently the British press's idiotic interpretation that the hill bombing was literally done to blow up a stupid ISIS flag has forced the U.S.'s hand, and it has clarified that they were striking a "command and control" outpost on the hill. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29751635
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Oct 24, 2014 19:29
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Brown Moses posted:The picture is here (warning, bloody eyes), seems like it would be an impressive amount of CS to do that. God, the amount of horrifying pictures and videos you must analyze for your line of work has to be tough. As I've mentioned before, I have immense respect for the work you do. Just following this thread I've been having recurring nightmares about the things happening with Daesh and Syria/Iraq.  Just reiterating my respect for being able to witness this kind of stuff day in and day out for your profession without getting burned out.
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Oct 24, 2014 19:51
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CommieGIR posted:They don't have to send anything, we've had aircraft staged out there for years. Nothing new is coming in, its stuff we've already had there. I think a lot of actors in the region would kill for airplanes that are beyond their expiration dates. I really don't think the US is going to use several hundred F-4 phantoms, like ever.
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Oct 24, 2014 19:59
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ascendance posted:Thing is, we like the Kurds because they are plucky underdogs, who seem to like all the things we like - secularism, pluralism, free enterprise, equal rights for women, etc. The Kurds have everything from islamists (consider how many kurdish recruits ISIS has) to hardline leftists and are basically your average american patriot's worst nightmare. Also poo poo like honor killings and backwards tribalism is pretty rife among rural kurds. Female genital mutilation is still widely practiced, although obviously not by urban and educated kurds, and the Communists stamp it out where they have control. I really don't know how this idealized fantasy poo poo gets peddled because this group of sand warriors is at war with people the west doesn't like. Was this how the mujahideen got romanticized in the 80s? mila kunis fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 19:59
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Torpor posted:I think a lot of actors in the region would kill for airplanes that are beyond their expiration dates. I really don't think the US is going to use several hundred F-4 phantoms, like ever. Oh ye of little faith: http://www.fencecheck.com/content/index.php?title=The_Final_Mission:_The_USAF%92s_QF-4_Target_Drones http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/where-have-all-the-phantoms-gone-96320627/?no-ist At least 254 have been chewed up as target drones. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 20:06
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tekz posted:The Kurds have everything from islamists (consider how many kurdish recruits ISIS has) to hardline leftists and are basically your average american patriot's worst nightmare. Also poo poo like honor killings and backwards tribalism is pretty rife among rural kurds. Who said anything about idealized? Pretty much any group in the world, and in particular in that region has some or all of those things. The KRG is literally one of the few groups in the area that seems to have some sort of organization, the PYD seems to be doing an okay job, even though their ideology is kind of insane. Oh yeah and they aren't going anywhere so we had better figure out how to deal with them. The best way to deal with them is to engage with them. That is like diplomacy 201.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:10
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Commissar Of Doom posted:Is there an english translation of this? I'd like to read their justifications for why western culture must be annihilated. Because all infidels must be converted or killed. Finito.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:11
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Torpor posted:Who said anything about idealized? Are you incapable of reading?
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Oct 24, 2014 20:13
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tekz posted:Are you incapable of reading? Are you just going to vaguely reference other people? In a way it is similar to how the mujaheddin were idealized in afghanistan. There the religious people were fighting the godless communists, and now the godless communists are fighting the religious people. The difference is the Kurds are kind of going the other direction than the mujaheddin ended up going. The kurds going from terrorism to organized civil society. Torpor fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 20:33
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tekz posted:The Kurds have everything from islamists (consider how many kurdish recruits ISIS has) to hardline leftists and are basically your average american patriot's worst nightmare. Also poo poo like honor killings and backwards tribalism is pretty rife among rural kurds. Female genital mutilation is still widely practiced, although obviously not by urban and educated kurds, and the Communists stamp it out where they have control.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:43
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Torpor posted:The difference is the Kurds are kind of going the other direction than the mujaheddin ended up going. The kurds going from terrorism to organized civil society. Edit: I mean, the struggle against FGM in Kurdistan is coming from Kurdish women, not a bunch of foreigners with feelings of superiority. ascendance fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 20:45
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ascendance posted:I got to say, I definitely like a bunch of hardline leftists way more than any muj. Hell, same. It's a shame the soviets lost.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:55
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Torpor posted:Are you just going to vaguely reference other people? ascendance posted:This. Totally this. Which is why I wish the Kurds well, and hope they can keep their state going. I disagree. If ISIL are really modeling themselves after the early khalifahs, then they looking to establish a civil society- well developed jurisprudence, sophisticated economic policies, and even limited political representation. ISIL is already providing public goods and utilities in the territories they control. The primary differences between them and the kurds are: not secular or liberal, they reject multiculturalism, and like ethnic cleansing and the destruction of Shia cultural heritage sites.
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Oct 24, 2014 21:43
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Honj Steak posted:Der Spiegel did an interview with a high-ranking ISIS recruiter and apparent Salafi "ideological guide" in Turkey: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/is-islamischer-staat-streitgespraech-mit-einem-islamisten-a-998720.html (in German) Man that guy couldn't have done more damage with this interview if he tried. That reads like some weird caricature written up by an American right-winger to portrait Muslims as inherently evil.
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Oct 24, 2014 22:03
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Torpor posted:http://m.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2014/1023/Islamic-State-siege-of-Kobane-Did-Turkey-shoot-itself-in-the-foot-video  ascendance posted:This. Totally this. Which is why I wish the Kurds well, and hope they can keep their state going. quote:UNFPA and UNICEF launched a joint programme in 2007 with the aim of reducing FGM by 40 percent within the 0–15 age group, and eliminating it entirely from at least one country. Fifteen countries joined the programme: Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Kenya, Senegal and Sudan in 2008; Burkina Faso, Gambia, Uganda and Somalia in 2009; and Eritrea, Mali and Mauritania in 2011. Phase 1 lasted from 2008 to 2013, with a budget of $37 million, over $20 million of it donated by Norway. Phase 2 extends the programme from 2014 to 2017. 
fade5 fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Oct 24, 2014 |
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Oct 24, 2014 22:06
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Dilkington posted:I disagree. If ISIL are really modeling themselves after the early khalifahs, then they looking to establish a civil society- well developed jurisprudence, sophisticated economic policies, and even limited political representation. ISIL is already providing public goods and utilities in the territories they control. Uhh... I think ISs justice system could use some work. IS is not even remotely close to where it can be said that they might accidentally transition into the 10th century. I mean the kurds could end up bungling everything and turn into the DPRK, but I remain cautiously optimistic. IS can just about not do any worse, so I guess in that regard they can only improve. The US seems to have had better luck dealing with leftist governments rather than theocracies. I mean the US and the Soviets managed to not causes an omnicide for 50 years of incredible antipathy.
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Oct 24, 2014 22:19
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Don't the reports from Al-Raqqa claim that the ISIS ideology is just an Islamic version of the law of the strongest? And I doubt that the thousands of foreign fighters have such sofisticate ideas, Dilkington.
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Oct 25, 2014 00:39
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http://www.ekrg.org/files/pdf/KRG_2020_last_english.pdf Here is the hopes and dreams of the KRG. All they have to do is develop everything from nothing simultaneously.  All they have to do is develop things like clean water, sewers, electricity, a functioning judicial system, a system of titling property. Oh yeah and they probably didn't take into account the war. Edit: looking at the photo credits page, they may need to develop copyright. http://www.krg.org/grafik/uploaded/2009/invest_in_kurdistan__2009_07_22.jpg Perhaps, in retrospect, it would have been smarter to have a plowshares to swords program. Torpor fucked around with this message at 01:16 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 01:08
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Cippalippus posted:Don't the reports from Al-Raqqa claim that the ISIS ideology is just an Islamic version of the law of the strongest? And I doubt that the thousands of foreign fighters have such sofisticate ideas, Dilkington. I don't know if that's accurate. ISIS follows a psychotic interpretation of Islam, but they're not corrupt like the average gulf potentate and the mere suggestion that they might be willing to distribute oil revenues among the faithful citizens of their state is enough to attract plenty of jobless, jaded Arab young adults. quote:“The Islamic State is a true caliphate, a system that is fair and just, where you don’t have to follow somebody’s orders because he is rich or powerful,” said Ahmed, a young supporter of the Islamic State who, like others interviewed, did not want to give his family name for fear of the police. “It is action, not theory, and it will topple the whole game.” No job? Pissed off? Don't mind some hard work, getting dirty, and possibly getting blown up? Join ISIS! illrepute fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 01:23
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illrepute posted:I don't know if that's accurate. ISIS follows a psychotic interpretation of Islam, but they're not corrupt like the I guess this is like when one person has a really lovely experience with a bank but another person has never had a problem with them and swears blind they're fine, because I read today that IS has been going around shaking down every business within their territory and selling people so..
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Oct 25, 2014 02:04
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Not to distract from ISIS/Kurdlovechat, but Egypt declared a state of emergency in the Sinai after 30 soldiers were killed in the north, days after Israeli soldiers were injured in a cross-border anti-tank rocket attack.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:05
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Torpor posted:http://www.ekrg.org/files/pdf/KRG_2020_last_english.pdf But first we must build a couple of five-star hotels and massively ambitious sprawling business complexes that will take years to finish. Priorities!
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Oct 25, 2014 02:06
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illrepute posted:I don't know if that's accurate. ISIS follows a psychotic interpretation of Islam, but they're not corrupt like the average gulf potentate and the mere suggestion that they might be willing to distribute oil revenues among the faithful citizens of their state is enough to attract plenty of jobless, jaded Arab young adults.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:10
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Honj Steak posted:Der Spiegel did an interview with a high-ranking ISIS recruiter and apparent Salafi "ideological guide" in Turkey: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/is-islamischer-staat-streitgespraech-mit-einem-islamisten-a-998720.html (in German) Their loving history is littered with rationalists, philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, and modern civilization owes a large debt to the very area these Evangelical-Pastors-with-Beards are sitting in and the era they idolize... i am harry fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 02:12
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