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Sivias posted:If it's written in a book as fact, someone will eat it up and regurgitate it. But you don't understand, we're the sheep for not believing it!
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Feb 6, 2012 23:16
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CoderCat posted:Care to support your claim regarding that chant with a video? That chant comes from regime propaganda. Not a single video contains it to my knowledge. The chant "al-'Alawiyya 'ala al-taboot wal-Masihiyya 'ala Beirut" (Alawis to the grave, Christians to Beirut) has been independently mentioned by a Syrian archbishop as well as in pro revolutionary writing. Edit- typo, thanks to below for pointing it out az jan jananam fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Feb 7, 2012 |
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Feb 6, 2012 23:24
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Golbez posted:And ... these masters of the universe that control the world economy and have made it into the uberconsumerist beast that it is... WANT this...? This awakening is not something that is a fantasy in the minds of conspiracy theorists. It is something that is front and center in the minds of the globalist intellectual elite. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/opinion/16iht-YEbrzezinski.1.18730411.html?pagewanted=all "For the first time in history almost all of humanity is politically activated, politically conscious and politically interactive. Global activism is generating a surge in the quest for cultural respect and economic opportunity in a world scarred by memories of colonial or imperial domination." quote:Well, which is it - are we trying to consume more resources (by controlling the Middle East entirely), or are we trying to wean people off consumer culture and move to minimal resource use? You are confused. Securing oil resources is not directly related to increased production of consumer products. There is no conflict to be had in these two statements.
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Feb 6, 2012 23:28
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Hamelekim posted:even more conspiracy stuff Might I suggest at this point, you just create your own topic to discuss your... theories in instead of making GBS threads up this one?
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Feb 6, 2012 23:59
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hey hamelekin if you do indeed claim that arabs have political agency of their own, why were you so adamant in saying that the syrian uprising was not of their own doing but rather a western plot
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Feb 7, 2012 00:20
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thiswayliesmadness posted:Might I suggest at this point, you just create your own topic to discuss your... theories in instead of making GBS threads up this one? don't be mean they already ran him out of the republican primaries thread in d&d for not being able to shut up about ron paul
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Feb 7, 2012 00:27
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Hamelekim posted:It would be more precise to call it the Anglo-American banking establishment. There are three powers vying for control right now, China, Russia, and the Anglo-American establishment. The rest of the NATO countries can be included under the last category, to various degrees. So, where do large countries that aren't affiliated with those three, such as India, Japan, or Brazil, fit in?
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Feb 7, 2012 00:30
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Acebuckeye13 posted:So, where do large countries that aren't affiliated with those three, such as India, Japan, or Brazil, fit in? They would be secondary and tertiary powers. They would fall under the influence of the three major powers to various degrees. If they attempt to get out of line then one of the three powers would work against them to push them back down. With regards to the middle east, we see that the various major powers, China, Russia, and the US/West are essentially battling it out for supremacy in the Middle East. These movements, whether they were initially created by internal movements, are being used right now by the West to push their own geopolitical interests. Even Iran can be considered to be under Russia/China with regards to their political and economic interests.
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Feb 7, 2012 00:47
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⇪ Make a new thread? Please? This is not the one for it. Please? I thought it was Al-Mashiyya, not Al-Mishiyya? (Please?) I just want to see you do a thread on it yourself, being interested in how you could continue to hold these viewpoints about Vague Organizations and non-specific individuals. Paradox Personified fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Feb 7, 2012 |
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Feb 7, 2012 00:48
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SoroScrew
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Paradox Personified posted:⇪ Make a new thread? Please? This is not the one for it. Please? Fine, I won't bring up the Anglo-American conspiracy in the Middle East in here again.
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Feb 7, 2012 01:01
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If the CIA were really in Syria there would be a lot more organization by now. Not-so-hard-conspiracy theory: The Arab monitors were an attempt to get footage out of atrocities by Bashar Al Assad to show the world how brutal he is being. 
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Feb 7, 2012 01:13
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Hamelekim, I just want you to take into consideration that what if your views are wrong. Consider what that would mean if the protesters are indeed perusing human ambitions to strip away the indignity they are suffering now, and their parents suffered 30 years earlier. Consider what an insult it would be to suggest that their plight, of suffering the inhuman domination that an establishment with a might you can't compete with. To say that their sacrifice of friends, sons, daughters. Entire families being murdered because they want the right to live their own lives without fear of criminality is only the will of a malevolent and self interested puppet master would be reprehensible.
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Feb 7, 2012 01:14
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Sivias posted:Consider what an insult it would be to suggest that their plight, of suffering the inhuman domination that an establishment with a might you can't compete with. To say that their sacrifice of friends, sons, daughters. Entire families being murdered because they want the right to live their own lives without fear of criminality is only the will of a malevolent and self interested puppet master would be reprehensible. Sorry, but I think it is quite obvious at this juncture that this is all just a plot by The West™ to take over the world. Everyone knows that Middle-Easterners just are not brave or crafty enough to try to solve their own problems. Only The West™ can inadvertently do so while trying to serve their own interests abroad. I am really interested what Hamelekim thinks about the Civil Rights movement. Western banking conspiracy? After all, if the ME has no political agency, it must be a known fact that those
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Feb 7, 2012 01:43
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LYE-OONS posted:I am really interested what Hamelekim thinks... Please.
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Feb 7, 2012 01:47
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LYE-OONS posted:I am really interested what Hamelekim thinks about the Civil Rights movement. Western banking conspiracy? After all, if the ME has no political agency, it must be a known fact that those Hey now, some of his best friends are black.
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Feb 7, 2012 01:48
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Can we stop responding to Hamelekim?
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Feb 7, 2012 01:57
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And everyone who ever posts like him.
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Feb 7, 2012 02:36
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http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/4251/seven-hours-in-hama Really interesting article about visiting Hama in 1982 right after the massacre. And all of you should be reading Jadaliyya, anyways. It's kind of unfortunate that a lot of these stories are only coming out now. http://www.wbez.org/episode-segments/2011-06-27/hell-harvard-chicagoan%E2%80%99s-story-survival-syria%E2%80%99s-infamous-tadmor-prison-8 The same guy has also talked about spending time in Syrian prison. edit: I just want to say that when people talk dismissively of expats with regards to the Arab Spring, they often forgot that these people had no choice but to leave. quote:I thought it was Al-Mashiyya, not Al-Mishiyya? It's masihiyya, but the a/i vowel might vary in colloquial. Xandu fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Feb 7, 2012 |
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Feb 7, 2012 02:56
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I wouldn't say a healthy dose of skepticism should be eliminated from the discussion. There are obvious extremely important political and territorial implications at stake. Anyone who thinks that Obama isn't sitting with his cabinet talking about how and what they can do to have this end in their favor, same as the Russians, the Chinese, etc. would be equally as delusional as to think it's all just the pawns on the oversized doom territory map in the executive office in skull mountain.
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Feb 7, 2012 02:56
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Pedrophile posted:If the CIA were really in Syria there would be a lot more organization by now. But don't you see, by not being organized, that just proves they are there because only they would be smart enough to realize that this would fool the world. Lack of proof is the proof! God it's hard to even type that in jest. edit: I agree, some skepticism is in order, but there's a huge difference between 'taking news out of syria with a few grains of salt due to the almost total lack of journalistic reports to confirm anything' and all the posts in the last 5+ pages from a certain poster
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Feb 7, 2012 03:06
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To tell the truth I've been very skeptical about the details coming out of Syria. But what I haven't been skeptical of is that something is going on. All of these reports, videos, rumours, tweets, facebook posts, etc. This stuff wasn't possible in 1982; it wasn't even conceived of. Can you imagine what a poo poo show of misinformation Homs 1982 must have been in comparison? It's still a shitshow, but in the opposite direction now; instead of having too little information we have too much.
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Feb 7, 2012 03:10
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Pedrophile posted:If the CIA were really in Syria there would be a lot more organization by now. If the CIA were actively and directly involved in the Syrian uprising, the uprising would have already imploded by now.
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Feb 7, 2012 03:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGTOvUvmYAk This series has been posted a couple times, but they finally finished it up with a very good episode. I love that Syrian protesters keep making fun of his pronunciation of the letter s.
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Feb 7, 2012 03:45
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cochise posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_color-coded_war_plans -- a bit dated but sort of relevant Really people all act so surprised by this. I'd imagine any country with a significant military would write up hypothetical war plans against even friendly neighbors, just for the sake of keeping strategists busy and thinking in peacetime. I think the only difference is that for a lot of matchups the plan is "we can't invade them, but if they invade us this is how we'll make it not worth their while," and obviously only countries with significant force projection can meaningfully plan overseas wars.
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Feb 7, 2012 03:47
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Seriously. The best way to train people in the art of making contingency plans is to have them make contingency plans. For every plausible (and not so plausible) scenario under the sun. And when the training is done? Well, you've all these plans lying around. Might as well shelve 'em.
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Feb 7, 2012 03:53
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Sivias posted:I wouldn't say a healthy dose of skepticism should be eliminated from the discussion. There are obvious extremely important political and territorial implications at stake. Anyone who thinks that Obama isn't sitting with his cabinet talking about how and what they can do to have this end in their favor, same as the Russians, the Chinese, etc. would be equally as delusional as to think it's all just the pawns on the oversized doom territory map in the executive office in skull mountain. Some of the major international concerns is that Russia keeps selling arms and ammunition to someone they know is using on civilians and protesters. Additionally Syria has a large amount of chemical weapons that could be used on the populace or pointed towards Israel. U.S. interests are mainly focused on isolating Iran, breaking down terrorist support from the regime, and preventing a civil war/humanitarian catastrophe that could very likely spread into neighboring countries. edit: or at least, that's what I would be concerned about
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Feb 7, 2012 04:00
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I keep finding myself asking what the UN can do about Syria now that Russia and China will veto everything. Are we going to end up with us supplying and supporting the rebels like Qatar did with Libya? The whole situation with Syria is so incredibly fustrating, I feel immeasurably terrible for the people in Homs, and all around Syria right now. Just wish we could do something.
Hefty Leftist fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Feb 7, 2012 |
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Feb 7, 2012 04:07
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Some are tossing around a Uniting for Peace UNGA resolution. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-07/u-s-seeks-plan-b-to-end-syrian-violence-after-un-fails-to-act.html
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Feb 7, 2012 04:08
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Scaramouche posted:To tell the truth I've been very skeptical about the details coming out of Syria. But what I haven't been skeptical of is that something is going on. All of these reports, videos, rumours, tweets, facebook posts, etc. This stuff wasn't possible in 1982; it wasn't even conceived of. Can you imagine what a poo poo show of misinformation Homs 1982 must have been in comparison? It's still a shitshow, but in the opposite direction now; instead of having too little information we have too much. Yeah, watching and listening to a live stream from Homs last night really brought that home to me. At the same time, I was both there and, in the broader picture, had no idea what was going on beyond the sound of explosions and gunfire.
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Feb 7, 2012 05:58
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http://bambuser.com/channel/baba-omer/broadcast/2348417 Another day, more shelling.
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Feb 7, 2012 06:36
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Xandu posted:http://bambuser.com/channel/baba-omer/broadcast/2348417 It's so eery hearing the prayers/shouts/crying in the background then silence, then loud bursts of shelling and automatic gun fire. In more 'Russias a piece of poo poo just trying to stick it to the west at the cost of Syrian lives' news: quote:Sergei Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister, will meet with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in Damascus on Tuesday, but for now, Russia is keeping the content of that meeting under wraps.
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Feb 7, 2012 07:07
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The police siding with the protesters. This must be bizzaro Earth. Maldives president 'resigns' amid protests Presidential office source says Mohamed Nasheed has quit, as police side with protesters and seize state television. quote:Maldives President Mohamed Nasheed has resigned, a presidential office source told Al Jazeera, as clashes between police and soldiers intensified in the Indian Ocean island nation. Awesome.
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Feb 7, 2012 09:11
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That is an unexpected occurrence.
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Feb 7, 2012 09:20
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Cochise posted:Just adding to what you mentioned about contingency scenarios. People usually freak out and go on about American imperialism once they learn about these war plans. Once mentioned it to a Canadian friend in passing while discussing the current Iran situation and the diatribe I was faced with would make Lizzie Phelan proud. If you're going to mention it to someone Canadian, you should also know that Canada also made contingency plans to invade the United States, and those plans have long been public: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Scheme_No._1 This actually predates the color-coded war plan the US made to invade Canada, which may be useful to know for future my-country-is-better-than-yours pissing matches. I've never personally heard of anyone in either Canada or the US (even wackos) in my lifetime thinking it was anything other than a hilarious historical quirk. There was a little latent hostility that led to the creation of these plans. The United States in those days often viewed Ireland as a poor little brother who needed to be defended from the British Empire/Commonwealth, which includes Canada (and at the time Newfoundland was a UK holding, not Canadian). There were also corresponding plans for all other parts of the British Empire, which all had to be accounted for in any such action to defend Ireland; the US made similar contingency plans to attack everything from Gibraltar to India to Singapore to Australia. At the time, there would also be a few Americans still alive able to personally recall Canada's war profiteering and failures to remain neutral during the American Civil War. It was still more for planning practice than for anything else.
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Feb 7, 2012 09:24
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Lascivious Sloth posted:The police siding with the protesters. This must be bizzaro Earth. Does anyone have a breakdown of the protests in Maldives, reasons and all that? I know nothing about that part of the world, never knew they were having protests there either.
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Feb 7, 2012 09:38
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Here's the latest live stream from Homs http://bambuser.com/channel/baba-omer/broadcast/2348798
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Feb 7, 2012 09:58
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Lanky Coconut Tree posted:Does anyone have a breakdown of the protests in Maldives, reasons and all that? I know nothing about that part of the world, never knew they were having protests there either. Well, the article sums it up pretty well, so read that. quote:Dunya Maumoon, a member of the opposition Progressive Party of the Maldives and the daughter of the islands' long-time leader Maumoon Abdul Gayoom, told Al Jazeera that Nasheed was under "military protection". Some other interesting facts: quote:The nation of the Maldives is a grouping of 1,192 islands covering about 500 miles of the Indian Ocean, south of India. Fewer than 200 of the islands are inhabited.
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Feb 7, 2012 10:06
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In Libyaquote:Gunmen kill five in Libyan refugee camp: hospital staff And the situation in Homs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rldZJobWHoE quote:Syrian crisis: Army renews assault on Homs
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Feb 7, 2012 10:11
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I post a lot of stuff on Twitter as well, so if you want to read every scrap of news about Syria and Libya follow me @brown_moses. If posted it all here there would just be pages and pages of it, I'll try to keep to key stuff here.
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Feb 7, 2012 10:14
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Turkish PM Erdogan has just said that Turkey will be starting a new international initiative on Syria after the "UN fiasco", according to BBC News.
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Feb 7, 2012 11:16
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