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stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008

Vladimir Putin posted:

How do events in Libya contribute to the theory that the US unpopular regimes that that eventually draw the ire of their people? Libya wasn't propped up by the US, in fact the US would like to see nothing more than Gadaffi to die.

To me it means that dictators will sprout up no matter what, and US support doesn't mean all that much in the end in terms of generating tyranical assholes.

What it means is that the people of the Arab world are fed up with dictators whether they're supported or opposed by the US. The US backed regimes aren't the only ones that are unpopular but the US supporting unpopular dictatorial regimes undermines US credibility when we claim support for democracy in countries with regimes we don't support.

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stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008

glug posted:

It seems like there are a few countries in the Arab world that, with respect to the Sunni/Shiite dividing line in Islam, are governed by a minority sect. Is there anyone out there who is seriously up on their middle east that would like to put together a color coded map?

I would be really interested in seeing the 'big picture', identifying by color or somesuch which nations were majority Sunni, majority Shiite, and those that were governed by the minority religious sect in their nation. On top of that, possibly color coding the names of each nation to indicate the level of unrest.

Don't know if we have someone that inclined and knowledgeable, but I think it'd be a neat thing to have available.

Iran, Azerbaijan, Iraq and Bahrain are all Shiite majority, Bahrain is ruled by a Sunni regime but there rest are governed primarily by Shiites, though Iraq is sort of a special case because of the large Sunni minority as well as the ethnic distinction between the Kurds (who are mostly Sunni) and Arabs.

Lebanon is divided between Sunnis, Shiites and several Christian denominations and their government is divided between the three main religious groups in the hopes of preventing any one from getting too much power, though there are a lot of people who want to get rid of this system in favor of a truly democratic system.

Oman is majority Ibadhi, which is different from either Sunni or Shiite, and is run by an Ibadhi regime.

Pretty much every other Muslim country is predominantly Sunni and governed by either a Sunni regime or a secular regime. Syria is noteworthy in that it's a secular regime but both the current president and his father, from whom he inherited his position, are Alawis who are a sect of Shiites.

Saudi Arabia is also noteworthy because of its large and potentially restive Shiite minority that is focused on the east coast of the country. These Saudi Shiites could potentially be a major threat to the Saudi government, especially if they're inspired by what's going on in Bahrain.

I found a map on wikipedia that shows not only the Sunni/Shia division but the major schools within the sects. I'm not 100% certain on its accuracy since it does come from wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt but I thought it might be useful.
Click here for the full 1245x604 image.

stereobreadsticks fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Mar 1, 2011

stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008

Cable Guy posted:

The report you quoted had a correction added:


Wouldn't surprise me if it was vetoed in the Security Council before it got to the Assembly... wouldn't surprise me at all.

An application for membership to the UN does require a recommendation from the Security Council, which will definitely be vetoed by the US, however the General Assembly can vote on a resolution recognizing the sovereignty and independence of Palestine without actually offering it UN membership without the involvement of the Security Council. Whether that's the route the Palestinians are planning on taking I don't know but it's a distinct possibility that would have many of the same consequences as them actually becoming a member state without running the risk of a US veto.

stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008
Does anyone have any idea what the situation is in southern Libya? I know Sabha is Qaddafi controlled and Al Jawf is rebel controlled but is there any information about the rest of that part of the country? I saw an article months ago about the southern front but since then nothing. Obviously what's happening up north, and especially in Tripoli is exciting but I've been wondering how much of the country is still Qaddafi controlled, at this point is it pretty much just Sirt, Sabha and that bit of the coast between Zawiyah and the Tunisian border? Or is most of the south still controlled by Qaddafi loyalists?

stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008
With all the news out of Sirte lately I can't help but wonder what's going on in Bani Walid.

stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008
According to AJE Al-Nahda says they've got over 30% of the vote in Tunisia and are "not far from 40%." So they're powerful but not in the absolute majority and the three parties fighting for second place are all either center-left or socialist secular parties so I would say that fears of an Islamist takeover are going to be proven unfounded. Not to mention the fact that Al-Nahda is a moderate Islamist party and is likely to wind up looking more like the Christian Democrats in various European countries than the wild eyed terrorists the term "Islamist" tends to conjure up in the minds of paranoid racist Westerners.

stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008

az jan jananam posted:

That's pretty poor analysis by Juan Cole. His friend "looked it up" and found it wasn't the al-Qaeda flag? Without offering any details or informing us as to what the flag, with the same script, proportions and symbolism as al-Qaeda, actually signifies? Abbasids? Yeah, right.

At the end it looks like he does admit that it could be an al-Qaeda flag, which makes it even more bizaare.

I think the point of the article is that black flags and the shahada, either separately or together, have a long history in Islamic cultures and have various meanings and degrees of significance and leaping to the conclusion of "welp, black flag and shahada, must be Al-Qaida" is presumptuous and lacking in historical and cultural background knowledge. His point in bringing up the Abbasids wasn't to imply that that particular use had anything to do with the flag's use in Benghazi, it was to demonstrate that there are more contexts that it would be used in than just Al-Qaida.

stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008

My Imaginary GF posted:

Because Erdogan is a power-crazed fascist who wishes to rule Turkey without any checks or balances on his power.

If Turkey were to apply to NATO today, they would not meet the requirements for membership. Since there is no mechanism for removing a nation from NATO, and there is a mechanism for removing power-mad populists from authority in NATO member-states, the solution is clear.

The only question is, will America take the brave choice of electing Bush and restore the integrity of NATO, or will America go with Clinton who will proceed to ignore America's national interest in NATO for preserving her self-interest due to past and current financial dealings between Erdogan and the Clinton Foundation/Global Initiative.

Wait, wait, wait. Am I reading this right? Are you suggesting that A) Bush would carry out regime change in Turkey and B) it would be a good idea? Because holy poo poo that's hilarious. I follow this thread and the I/P one so I'm familiar with your work MIGF but still. I'm not a fan of Erdogan for both political and personal reasons, I lost a job teaching English at a Gulenist school because the Erdogan government was trying to shut them down, but my god that's an amazing dose of crazy you just posted here.

Seriously, between this, your repeated advocacy for overthrowing the Iranian regime regardless of the consequences and the ongoing wars in Afghanistan (spilling over into Pakistan), Iraq, and Syria I want to know if you're seriously advocating the creation of a swath of instability and violence stretching from the borders of the EU to the borders of India and China? I know your much vaunted realpolitik schtick isn't actually based on realpolitik but do you think you could explain how that would serve the interests of the United States, Israel, or indeed anyone at all?

stereobreadsticks fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Apr 14, 2015

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stereobreadsticks
Feb 28, 2008

My Imaginary GF posted:

Germany was like ISIL in WW2, while Italy was like Turkey: Germany saw the war as a demographical battle, while Italy saw the war as an opportunity to advance the interests of Mussilini above all else.

Hey, I'm still interested in hearing you defend the notion that if elected President Jeb Bush would take out Erdogan and that this would somehow be good for either America or Israel. I know that 90% of what you post is trolling but I'm interested in hearing even a hypothetical explanation of that kind of thought process.

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