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Brown Moses posted:There was some discussion about this near the beginning of the conflict. I don't think the stockpiles of gas were destroyed, just the delivery methods, so they could still be used to make crude weapons if they could be safely handled. That's a big "if" though. And even if Muammar did have some crazy toss a jar of nerve gas in amongst the rebels or into an Italian subway station, all it would accomplish would be to galvanize the NATO member nations into drastic action. The Americans would send in the carriers and the missile boats and the French would have the Foreign Legion in the country before the week was out. As a last, defiant, "From Hell's heart, I stab at thee" moment it might make sense. But I don't think that Muammar is quite ready for that yet. Zeroisanumber fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jul 15, 2011 |
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Jul 15, 2011 21:16
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Brown Moses posted:France is now claiming that Brega is controlled by the NTC This morning NPR reported that the Brega offensive and other NTC advances have been seriously hampered by the fact that Muammar is laying out thousands of landmines. The report centered on three men who are clearing minefields using their eyeballs, a couple of sharp sticks, and a metal detector that can't find most of the low-metal content mines that Quaddafi's assholes have been scattering around.
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Jul 19, 2011 16:57
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Sounds like an assassination and whitewash at first blush, but I'm willing to wait and see what information comes out over the next few days.
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Jul 28, 2011 21:48
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Brown Moses posted:Younis had a lot of very loyal soldiers who could be very pissed off about what has happened, it could lead to them attacking the NTC directly. This could be a disaster. Why would they do something as stupid as killing the head of their military forces just when they were finally putting together a credible offensive AND getting major diplomatic recognition? It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
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Jul 28, 2011 22:03
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Jut posted:Probably because I consider protecting civilians more important than removing a bad man. I don't think that one will be possible without the other in this case. CQ and his clique aren't going to settle for a cease-fire that leaves them in control of the Tripoli and Sirt area, and the rebels in control of the rest of the country. And the rebels aren't strong enough to hold back the tide of CQ's forces if NATO isn't there to provide air support. Honestly, if protecting civilians is your goal, then I'm surprised that you aren't in favor of NATO using much more force than they are now to bring a quick end to the fighting. A brigade of Royal Marines or the French Foreign Legion, or perhaps even a few sorties by the carriers of the 6th Fleet would crumple Quaddafi's forces like cheap cardboard. Even the threat might be enough to make him give up power.
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Aug 2, 2011 19:51
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Jut posted:Why are they doing this all at once instead of having separate dates for the third and fourth group? From the over-the-top security to the giant cage to Mubarak testifying from a hospital bed, this is all supposed to be a giant spectacle.
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Aug 3, 2011 15:42
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suboptimal posted:I'd like to know this: have the settlers joined the demonstrations in any meaningful way? I've seen a few tweets from 972 magazine writer @IbnReza about there being some minor clashes between protesters and settlers who tried to set up tents. What's your feelings on the extreme right/settlers joining the protest movement? I'm not the poster that you addressed this to, but the settlers who've joined the protest have flat-out admitted that they just joined up in order to cause the protests to turn violent and fail to achieve anything.
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Aug 8, 2011 16:32
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Brown Moses posted:This is a disaster for Gaddafi, he lost a major city, his last refinery, and his last route to the outside world, and all in less than 24 hours. So much for days of bloody street fighting, they just ran away. Thats not to say the rebels have 100% control, there's still fighting in the city, but I don't think the rebels are going to give up easily now they are in there. Isn't this about the point in the dictatorship where you announce your sudden retirement to Saudi Arabia? Gaddafi has to see the writing on the wall, and even if he doesn't his inner-circle must.
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Aug 14, 2011 17:02
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Xandu posted:Syria has banned the sale of foreign currency. I wonder if that means the elite was transferring their money abroad. That's exactly what it means. Hopefully it's a sign that Assad and his thugs are starting to lose the confidence of the rich and powerful in Syria, but it's probably just a bunch of old bastards being extra-cautious.
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Aug 15, 2011 17:12
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Brown Moses posted:It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for Tripoli to start feeling the effects of their link to Tunisia being closed. All reports suggest it was a major route for the transport of fuel supplies, and I doubt that there's been that much stockpiling of fuel, so I expect them to run out very quickly. Hopefully tomorrow there will be confirmation of what has happening in Mizdah, if that's captured then Gaddafi really is hosed. There was that report earlier that the UN has flown jets into Tripoli airport. I'm thinking that they might have been brought there to entice Gaddafi into exile by presenting a viable exit.
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Aug 15, 2011 22:03
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dj_clawson posted:How dangerous are scuds? Saddam dropped a ton of scud missiles on Israel during the Gulf War and there were no major deaths. I once met a couple who named their dog "scud" because they rescued him from a pound during the war. They'll wreck your day if they hit nearby, but they're in no way a game changer. At this point launching them would just be a spiteful move, "From Hell's Heart!" and all that.
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Aug 15, 2011 22:37
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farraday posted:I said where it was targeted, not that it was targeted at the ship. Scuds aren't that accurate. A ship in harbor at Benghazi would have a much better chance of shooting down a scud aimed at Benghazi then one just sitting somewhere in the Gulf of Sidra. Bit of a moot point though. We're not going to send an AEGIS cruiser anywhere near Libya unless Quaddafi starts doing something totally insane like threatening to deploy WMDs.
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Aug 16, 2011 03:42
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Leperflesh posted:Yeah. I remember back in Gulf War I, when Saddam started chucking Scuds at Israel. The US deployed Patriot arrays into Israel and there was quite the kerfuffle about it. Partly because they were pretty unproven at the time and some Scuds got through anyway, and partly because it was OMG MISSILE DEFENSE which was, at the time, still a hot-button issue. Bush Sr. was Reagan's former VP and star wars had been a big deal and while the Wall may have come down, Russia still wasn't too drat happy about ongoing development and testing of missile defense systems. IIRC, the Patriots didn't manage to intercept much of anything back in 1991, and that wasn't surprising considering that the system was designed as an AA platform, not an Anti-Missile battery. Postwar analysis by MIT showed an intercept rate of 0-10%. The system has been totally re-designed since then and supposedly is quite good at knocking down missiles in-theater now, but I don't think that there's been much testing under combat conditions.
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Aug 16, 2011 03:47
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Giant guns bolted onto pick-up trucks, tooling around in the desert shooting at the government, stealing tanks and shouting "God is Great!" These guys are just a bikini model and a six-pack away from Redneck Heaven.
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Aug 16, 2011 20:22
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Brown Moses posted:Don't forget he's always nice to Africans... They seriously believe that? His meddling in Africa has cost thousands of lives over the years.
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Aug 17, 2011 15:17
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eSports Chaebol posted:Then again of course he was much less instrumental in France, so it's not like any NATO countries have the high ground when it comes to African intervention. Not arguing that, just surprised by the depth of ignorance regarding Gaddafi's African adventures.
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Aug 17, 2011 18:37
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Brown Moses posted:Matthew Price of the BBC just Tweeted this froma press conference in Tripoli I imagine the rebel response will be something on the order of: gently caress your cease-fire, we're coming for your heads.
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Aug 18, 2011 15:35
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Xandu posted:In case you need a laugh: "You're doing what I would have done if the army had let me do what I wanted to do, like you're doing. Stop doing that."
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Aug 18, 2011 17:37
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Brown Moses posted:There's claims that Israel managed to kill some Egyptian soldiers during their retaliation for the attacks today, so the poo poo might be about to hit the fan. Odd. Some munitions go awry? Supposedly the airstrike hit Gaza, and I hadn't heard of any Egyptian military there.
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Aug 18, 2011 23:52
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Ham posted:Clashes at the border, pretty much. Unknown if accidental or not, but one Egyptian officer and 2 Egyptian soldiers confirmed killed by an Israeli Apache, with several more wounded. The last thing anyone needs is a poo poo fight between Israel and Egypt. Hope that cooler heads prevail.
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Aug 19, 2011 01:56
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Brown Moses posted:NATO seems to be targeting regime figures directly: Makes sense. Even if you don't kill them it destroys their holdings and puts direct pressure on people who are already under tremendous strain. That in turn will encourage defections or simple bug-outs from the people still holding up the regime. We also might get lucky and kill Gaddafi, which would bring the whole rotten edifice crashing down.
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Aug 19, 2011 15:59
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KashiMane posted:Woah, you guys never met someone opposed to western imperialism? Or is western imperialism a mystical tale to you folks? Actually, I'm much more interested in why you support Gaddafi and oppose the rebels. I'd think that a person opposed to "Western Imperialism" would support a national liberation movement. Is it the fact that NATO is involved which makes them illegitimate? Or are you anti-rebel for another reason?
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Aug 19, 2011 18:02
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AllanGordon posted:I find it hard to believe that the Israelis don't have gps in their apaches. Obviously they hosed up, let's just hope that nothing worse is touched off by their negligence.
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Aug 19, 2011 18:17
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KashiMane posted:Western involvement is pretty much the reason. We said no more after Iraq and yet, not only are we in Libya, but they fooled you into thinking that it's some humanitarian mission. Rebels picked the other side and are out to get paid. I don't care for either side, I care about the people of Libya. They are in the middle of a struggle for power and resources, and all we can do for them is call them "collateral damage" when they are murdered. The West became involved when it was clear that Gaddafi was going to hold onto power by instituting a full-fledged bloodbath in Benghazi and after the Arab League and the UN both gave the mission their respective blessing. Whatever you might feel about western meddling in North Africa, the fact of the matter is that there is a universe of difference between giving the Libyan national liberation movement a fighting chance and Mussolini's mad dreams of a New Roman Empire.
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Aug 19, 2011 18:22
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Brown Moses posted:The centres of Zliten and Zawiyah have both been secured by the rebels in the past few hours. So the rebels are pretty much in control of the coastal highway from Tunisia all the way out to the outskirts of Tripoli. If that's the case, then NATO can simply ship whatever supplies they need to to Tunis and just truck it over to the border, skipping the logistical problems of supply by air. That'll take some pressure off of NATO's transport fleet, at least in the western half of the country.
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Aug 19, 2011 18:30
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How are u posted:Something Awful Forums: Your Global News Leader I just felt an icy chill crawl up my spine. Seriously though, congrats to you Brown Moses. You've been doing some really fantastic work on this and it's nice to see you get recognition from the big media outlets.
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Aug 19, 2011 18:32
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KashiMane posted:Imperialism. It's good to be suspicious of the proverbial Greeks bearing gifts, but you're so paranoid of the shadowy hand of "Western Imperialism" that you're being myopic and refusing to see that this is a GOOD THING for the people of Libya. They're getting western help, but they're fighting for their own freedom against a brutal dictator and his gang of thugs. If you honestly want to make a difference for the people of Libya, then work to ensure that that western support doesn't dry up and blow away after Gaddafi is ousted. They're going to need help rebuilding their country, creating democratic institutions, and dealing with the hangover that results from 40-years of dictatorship followed by a revolt. Or you could, ya'know, just bitch on SA about what shits we are here in the West and post about weed over on TCC. Up to you.
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Aug 19, 2011 18:47
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Brown Moses posted:To me there seems to be three possible scenarios: If it gets bad enough we might, might send in the 6th Fleet to finish Gaddafi off, but it would have to be a really bad stalemate with a lot of civilians trapped and no chance of success for the forseeable future.
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Aug 19, 2011 22:13
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So this is a general revolt from the people in Tripoli? If it's a blitz from the rebels, then I badly underestimated their level of discipline and organization.
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Aug 20, 2011 23:05
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Grumperfish posted:Love that video of the kid using the green flag to wipe down cars on AJE. Yeah, it looks like Gaddafi and his thugs were taken completely by surprise by the fairly well-organized 5th column that the rebels have in Tripoli. I hope that they can make the most of it and seize the capitol in the confusion.
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Aug 21, 2011 04:36
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Arkane posted:Why do we have 24 hour news stations if none of the news stations are covering incredibly important world events? Celebrity weddings, bullshit American political pissing contests, reality show results. You know, the important stuff.
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Aug 21, 2011 04:38
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Stroh M.D. posted:In Egypt, protesters are crazy. According to the AJE reporter they "want to see the ambassador expelled, all ties between Israel and Egypt cut and reconsideration of the 1969 peace treaty". It would be a horrible disaster for everyone involved, but it looks like cooler heads are prevailing at the top levels of both governments.
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Aug 21, 2011 15:09
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Dreissi posted:With the level of chaos in Tripoli and the surrounding areas at the moment, I find it hard to imagine the rebels won't find at least one safe place to disembark. If you're launching boats full of equipment and fighters you have to have some kind of pre-planned landing zone in mind so that everyone knows where they are and what to do when they get there. That's doubly important if you're using non-combat boats in a combat situation. That means that the rebels inside the city had coordinated with 5th column rebels beforehand to have a secure landing point for their boats. I'm really very impressed with what the rebels have accomplished so far in the Tripoli operation. This a real step-up in competence and coordination for them.
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Aug 21, 2011 15:34
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Cheers to Libya, cheers to Brown Moses on his great work, cheers to NATO for making it all possible. It's wonderful to see an entire country rise up and reject a tyrant. Long live the fighters!
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Aug 22, 2011 02:32
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thexerox123 posted:This was a great way to sum it up... I paraphrased this (and added that Russia Today isn't exactly known for being impartial, either), and she actually seemed to concede the point, a little. Nah, man. You really have to go full-Goon on this. Bash her over the head repeatedly with how ridiculous her sources are until you get a full retraction.
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Aug 22, 2011 19:35
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lorn Wayne posted:So what's the over-under on 'The west installs a puppet/IMF shill, who sells off all state owned assets to private enterprises and siphons off most of the proceeds to his Swiss bank account while being lauded by major media outlets as Libya's saviour'? Installs how? We don't have an army over there, just a few military advisers. And we're not bloodly likely to invade.
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Aug 22, 2011 23:25
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Time magazine will have another easy cover this week.
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Aug 23, 2011 17:03
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Furious Mittens posted:They have covered so much ground in such a short amount of time, I really hope that they are prepared to defend those gains from pockets of Pro-regime forces that are bound to pop up and make life extremely miserable for those caught inside. The mercenaries will either melt away or be captured. Without money in the offing why would they fight? All that leaves is the fanatics and regime hold-outs who can't make it out of the country, and I can't imagine that they'll last long against a well-armed, motivated force that has NATO providing air support. Zeroisanumber fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Aug 23, 2011 |
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Aug 23, 2011 17:20
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Nenonen posted:Gold is a soft metal and couldn't be swapped for steel or the gun would just explode when fired. Plus it'd take special machining tools to make the weapon out of gold, and that just wouldn't make sense even for a luxury item because it'd be useless. Still probably just about worth its weight in gold. Mummar Gaddafi's gun? Taken from his very compound as a prize of war by a rebel fighter? I could see some rich gun collector dropping $30K for the pleasure of owning that.
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Aug 23, 2011 18:31
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Nenonen posted:It belongs in a museum! So it does. But I don't know that it will end up in one.
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Aug 23, 2011 18:35
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