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Xandu posted:Withdrawal from the Arab World (not completely, but politically) seems plausible. I'm hoping that this is finally what makes us realize that getting involved in the diplomatic affairs of a group of religious fanatics is not going to do anything for us but cost us a lot of money and good American lives. If being the world's police means we have to lose people to ingrates in conflicts that we didn't start and have no stake in, I think it's time to turn in our badge and our gun. tekz posted:That gets me too. I thought US embassies were highly guarded near fortresses in volatile countries. The comment in the Eurogamer article leaves me to believe that the guards weren't all loyal to the embassy. It was a second hand quote from Vilerat but I would imagine they were leaving the fortress when they were killed for a reason. It certainly wouldn't be the first time this month security forces turned on us in a middle eastern country.
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Sep 12, 2012 12:33
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CeeJee posted:Well to be fair a lot of people here consider the maker of the movie just as guilty as the actual killers. Well, he's a man who lives in California despite considering himself 'Israeli' who made a hatespeech movie about Islam, and both he and his backer (a similairly intolerant baptist minister jackass) are peppering their half-assed apologies with defiant proclamations that Islam is a religion of hate and their movie was The Truth. Excuse me if I think they're implicit.
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Sep 12, 2012 13:30
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factorialite posted:I'm pretty sure it makes me a bad person, but I irrationally want blood for blood here. I am in the same boat. Right now I would be perfectly happy if we just air dropped some tanks at the south end of Libya and didn't stop until the whole goddamn nation was a parking lot. As far as I'm concerned, the people of Libya have lost all legitimacy in their new nation. Every time a secular government falls apart in the middle east it gets replaced with fanatics who turn to murder at every opportunity. I know I'm going to feel differently tomorrow, but today is a pretty god drat dark day. Acebuckeye13 posted:drat, this wasn't what I expected to see when logging in. drat. Everything I've read today seems to be showing that the Libyan government is allied against the Salafists the same way that these Lebonese were allied against Hizbollah a few years ago. There is a difference between public condemnation and actually condemning terrorists, and it looks to me like there is a lot of support for the salafists within the Libyan government.
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Sep 12, 2012 13:57
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tekz posted:It pisses me off too when the US drone murders pakistani villagers but I don't call for America to get turned into a parking lot. Most Libyans following the liberation from Gaddafi are pro-America, so this is a really stupid post. Like I said; I'll feel differently about this tomorrow. I'm angry right now. a lot of us are. I think it's a perfectly natural response. Except from Arzy. I think he's always like this.  quote:->Murdering some embassy staff because some fuckwit on the other side of the world made a video I never said it was a reasonable emotion. I was just agreeing with others who were expressing their feelings of anger. It's good to not feel alone in being upset about this. It makes the outrage feel less bizarre and inhuman. Please relax guys, I am not literally calling for war with Libya.
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Sep 12, 2012 14:23
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The guy identifies himself as Israeli (I don't know if that means he's a citizen of Israel or if he is just an American who really likes Israel. I am leaning towards the former?) and expected this kind of fallout. If it turns out he was implicit in dubbing it to arabic, I think he should be deported. Free speech is defensible but this is hate speech teetering on the knife's edge of treason.
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Sep 12, 2012 14:37
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LP97S posted:It's not entirely on them, promoting hate speech is terrible as well and the people who did that should not get a free pass. Especially when, as you might reasonably extrapolate from this, the point of the hate speech was to incite this kind of violence in the first place. The guy who incites a riot isn't exempt from punishment just because he didn't bust any windows or flip any cars.
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Sep 12, 2012 14:42
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shrike82 posted:There's something patronizing about claiming a video is a "detonator" for a bomb. You're taking away agency from the perpetrators of the attack. They aren't automatons that mindlessly react to a video and start killing people. More that the intention of deliberate hate speech should be examined when somebody is incited to commit a crime because of that hate speech. there are plenty of criticisms of islam that I would defend as legitimate. This is indefensible hate speech that the guy made with the intention of pissing off the arab world to begin with. That's why it's so objectionable to me.
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Sep 12, 2012 14:50
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While we do not have on the books legislation against hate speech, keep in mind that Charles Manson never killed anybody and he's doing consecutive life sentences. He used hate speech to turn his followers into killers. While the proximity and allegiances may be different, if the intention of the movie's creator was to stir up violence and unrest in the middle east with his film, I don't see him as much better by comparison.
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Sep 12, 2012 14:54
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az jan jananam posted:It's really great how patronizing Westerners become in situations like these, to treat Muslims like latently murderous idiot children when it comes to depictions of the Prophet, or, even more offensively, like they are bombs waiting to be set off by the right trigger. Your argument is pretty hollow considering this happens every single time a cartoon or TV show or movie comes out that depicts the prophet in a negative light. We are literally having a discussion about four people, including an SA member who were murdered because a dude made a lovely low budget movie and it hit an egyptian cable channel. You can only say something was a unique, non-representative scenario so many times before it stops being a legitimate statement. shrike82 posted:How about the Dutch Mohammed comics? If extremists had used them as an excuse to kill people, would we be having the same discussion? It's different because those comics weren't done with the intention of stirring up violence. Much like the financier of this movie, who once burned the qu'ran because he knew the kind of protests it would stir up in the middle east, I feel that the director of this movie never made it to make a statement in the US, he made it to piss off extremists in the middle east. Part of the ongoing campaign to paint Islam as a religion of hate.
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Sep 12, 2012 15:02
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Adrastus posted:Dude dude: quote:I know I'm going to feel differently tomorrow, but today is a pretty god drat dark day. I was specifically noting that I was just being emotional and wasn't actually serious.
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Sep 12, 2012 17:31
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