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Lybian troops were the last ones to defend Idi Amin and now African mercenaries are the last to defend Gadaffi. You could could not make this stuff up. If it's actually true. Some of the reports, especially the ones that has women and children jumping off a bridge to escape the Africans have a very racist tone to them.
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Feb 20, 2011 16:51
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tere posted:The UN is useless. How long did they allow the massacre of the tutsi at the hands of the hutus. Maybe France will set up a safe zone for the Gadaffi loyalists once they start to really lose like in Rwanda.
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Feb 22, 2011 08:22
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Regular army units in countries like Libya are often given no ammunition in their barracks. Their ability to fight may be very limited compared to the well supplied units loyal to the regime and any foreign mercenaries.
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Feb 22, 2011 14:34
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OK, now David Koresh is brought in for comparison.
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Feb 22, 2011 17:27
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If a no-fly zone is set up Libya still has a lot of Scud missiles Ghaddafi can launch at the rebel cities.
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Mar 1, 2011 10:27
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A No Fly Zone is not going to make any difference on the ground. Without an air force the pro-government side appears to have more then enough heavy weapons and troops to take on the rebel side. It may seem like the time it took to take one city is some sort of victory but remember this is the first successful combat operation by the Libyan armed forces ever. In the past they were soundly beaten by the US Navy, Egypt, Chad and Tanzania. The NFZ also has an endless list of difficult questions that need to be addressed before the first images of civilians killed by NATO start appear: -Will planes of the Libyan state airline on scheduled flights be shot down as well ? -What about helicopters ? And what if they now start carrying Red Crescent markings ? -Will air defense installations be attacked if rebels taken prisoner are put next to them ?
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Mar 11, 2011 09:43
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Mad Doctor Cthulhu posted:He's going to fail. If he's tying down his own men in their vehicles to prevent escape, then his 'support' does not exist. It would be fascinating to see how many people he has left, and how many of them are willing to die for this pathetic madman. That report of tank crews chained in the tank makes no sense on any level beyond an obvious fabrication to make the case everyone on Gadaffi's side is a mercenary or forced to fight for him. I mean how do you climb into the tank with your feet shackled ? How does the driver operate the foot pedals like that ? Do they check the tank for bolt cutters before placing the shackled crew in there ? And if every tank crew is indeed shackled in place, who is there to stop the tanks from just driving off ?
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Mar 14, 2011 08:51
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Brown Moses posted:It makes me wonder why they are being used now, instead of before. Is it part of some grand strategy, or an act of desperation? Or maybe it's just made up, either by the regime who want to create the impression a no-fly zone is not needed or by someone on Twitter who has wants to create some good news for the rebellion. Sinking two warships with an airstrike is extremely hard, especially for an outdated air force like the Libyan one. It's the same outcome as the 'battle' with the US navy in 1986 who had a vastly more powerful airforce and navy.
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Mar 15, 2011 19:39
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There are reports that most of the reports claiming rebel victories are full of poo poo. I want the rebels to win but the reporting from the rebel side is approaching Gadaffi level of delusions how every city they lose is in fact not lost and they suddenly have an air force that achieves amazing results in a few hours.
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Mar 16, 2011 09:37
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Brown Moses posted:
You would expect some reporter in rebel held territory would have been invited to report on the Free Libyan Air Force. As it is now it's not even certain it exists.
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Mar 16, 2011 16:23
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New Division posted:Of course not. It was from a rebel radio station broadcasting stuff intended to bolster morale. The reporters on the ground in Benghazi covering the revolt for the Wall Street Journal have mentioned these broadcasts in their coverage, but a lot of their stuff is behind a paywall. But if you have access, here ya go. Thought so: quote:As the day progressed, the radio made a series of increasingly fantastic claims, saying that pilots of the rebel air force - which rebel officials have been saying for days does not exist -- have launched kamikaze attacks on Col. Gadhafi's units, and insisting that rebels somehow captured three government warships. The amount of false info going out through Twitter and Al Jazeera is just amazing, Fox News is completely credible compared to this.
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Mar 16, 2011 21:55
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Brown Moses posted:Several people have questioned whether or not the planes were downed, and the sources of the claims have promised footage, so hopefully that'll turn up soon. If they don't, can they be discounted as sources in the future ? The amount of obvious propaganda is driving me to hoping for a Gadaffi victory just to see how they will spin the fall of Benghazi.
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Mar 17, 2011 15:00
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Ham posted:So according to an article in the Washington Times, John Kerry has confirmed the US government has frozen $31.5 billion of Mubarak's assets in the form of shares, stocks, bank accounts and some real estate in New York and Los Angeles. $31.5 Billion just in the US... The link from Google news to this article now says quote:That story has been removed from the site
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Mar 17, 2011 18:31
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If the rebels start bombarding a city held by pro-gov forces with artillery, is NATO then obliged to attack them ?
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Mar 18, 2011 09:54
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Jippa posted:Wow, oh no. Farewell Free Libyan Airforce, we hardly got to know you....
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Mar 19, 2011 10:16
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Brown Moses posted:There's a meeting in Paris in a few hours to decide what will happen next, and they seriously need to start bombing Gaddafi forces the minute that meeting finishes otherwise Benghazi is doomed. Is this the same Benghazi the government forces could never take as the rebels were dug in there with all their heavy equipment ?
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Mar 19, 2011 10:24
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'Security council resolutions are void, this is an internal affair, who gave you the right ???' edit Gadaffi: Baraka Hussein Obama, my son, I still love you even if we are enemies.
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Mar 19, 2011 11:02
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drat, don't cut away as the letter to Sarkozy gets read out.
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Mar 19, 2011 11:05
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If the rebels were not so totally useless Gadaffi's forces would not have been able to get so close without their normal days of bombarding. Once this is all over I really hope we'll get some sort of idea just who has been feeding the world all the crap of mass defections, brilliant rebel victories and bumbling government forces.
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Mar 19, 2011 12:11
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Not really surprising the rebels are not making a push, why fight today when your enemy is being bombed ? All the bombs in NATO's arsenal can't make the rebels less useless, the best to aim for is bombing government troops until they are even weaker.
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Mar 23, 2011 13:00
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So Gaddaffi was right when he said there were just a few hundred armed criminals. The con that was pulled off here is quite amazing, I wonder which publicity firm was behind all those tweets claiming rebel victories and defections to the rebels.
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Mar 24, 2011 23:11
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Jaysus posted:Why are so many people on Gaddafi's side? He's been the ruler of the country for as long as most of the population can remember and he has made sure enough people got to live relativaly good from the oil revenue. The coverage from the uprisings in Lbiya and other countries has also been overstating the support of the rebel side and described anyone in support of the sitting regime as mercenaries or paid thugs. They may not be on Twitter but that does not mean the Gadaffi supporters do not exist.
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Mar 26, 2011 13:28
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Cacatua posted:That particular photo is one Platon took at the UN, where he tried to get photos of all the different world leaders there for the New Yorker. Those comments from the photographer are really fascinating, I wonder who the head of state was that refused to sit on the chair Mugabe had just used.
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Mar 27, 2011 21:53
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Jut posted:I never said this was a US led action. I've said that the UN intervention force have gone beyond the limits set by the resolution. And it will still have to expanded considerably before the rebels have a chance of going all the way to Tripoli.
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Mar 29, 2011 08:52
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On the Guardian there is some footage of the rebel advance (driving pickups on the road), combat (firing wildly while shouting Allahu Akbar) and retreat under government artillery. The reports of Sirte falling of two days ago have been once again been complete bullshit. What would it take to stop Twitter reports from being picked up as actual news ?
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Mar 29, 2011 15:31
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The coalition has no mandate to attack Libyan army forces not engaged in attacking civilians. A battalion of government troops dug in on the edge of Sirte stopping a rebel attack is not such a target. If the rebels flee and that unit gives chase it's not a target either until the rebels hide in a city and they attack.
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Mar 30, 2011 16:13
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J33uk posted:This is getting close to being a farce. gently caress what a mess this is going to be. quote:Shortly after 3 p.m., General Younes drove in a small entourage out onto the desert plain short of Brega. His troops gathered around him as he drove slowly through the ranks; they walked beside him firing rifles and machine guns in the air. He left the lines, and soon after the rebel attack began, opening with volleys of rockets.
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Apr 2, 2011 08:17
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Jut posted:If the rebels were bombarding a town, then do you think the air strike was on purpose? The air strike (if it happened at all, since it was on Twitter odds are it didn't) was not at Brega but reported near Adjabiya. But according to the UN resolution, a rebel unit launching terribly inaccurate rockets at a town held by the government should be attacked.
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Apr 2, 2011 09:20
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This just gets weirder and weirder: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...rike_Near_Brega quote:"Some of Gaddafi's forces sneaked in among the rebels and fired anti-aircraft guns in the air," said rebel fighter Mustafa Ali Omar. And those civilian casualties from earlier ? It was the elusive Free Libyan Air Force all along ! quote:Reports of the deaths come after the Libyan government claimed Western airstrikes at a village nine miles from Brega killed at least 12 civilians and wounded dozens more.
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Apr 2, 2011 11:10
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Jut posted:Go and read the resolution that authorised action. They were never tasked with helping the rebels overthrow CQ. They were tasked with protecting civilians. Are you angry that they are not bombing targets with a high chance of accidentally killing civilians? or just pissed that they were never sent in to help the rebels overthrow CQ? The civilian population is not helped by a civil war that will drag on for years as no side is able to defeat the other without NATO bombing them. What's also weird is that a few decades earlier the UN approved bombing the poo poo out of rebels in Katanga to prevent a civil war from occuring and splitting the country. Which is exactly what is happening now with UN blessing and based on the same UN charter.
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Apr 6, 2011 21:37
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Rebels to NATO: gently caress you assholesquote:General Abdel Fattah Younes was scathing in his condemnation of Nato. "They have disappointed us. Nato has become our problem. Either Nato does its work properly or we will ask the Security Council to suspend its work." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/divided-and-disorganised-libyan-rebel-military-turn-on-nato-allies-2264334.html If given a free hand the general would probably ask for B-52's to carpet bomb any resisting town into dust with everyone in it.
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Apr 7, 2011 09:57
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Indeed, and I doubt they had someone do the math to figure out they had to mount that a X angle to hit a target at Y distance using rockets flying an arc of Z. You can seen them in action here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7dqwII-gbU It's very spectacular and Allahu Akbar worthy. Like Gadaffi, Gbagbo is refusing to go along with the playbook that he's defeated and should just give up. Or this bunch of rebels is just as good at making poo poo up like besieging his residence and getting UN help for that little last push. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13019333 quote:Forces loyal to Ivory Coast's incumbent leader Laurent Gbagbo have gained ground in Abidjan, the UN says.
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Apr 9, 2011 09:53
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This should go down well for the conspiracy minded: http://i51.tinypic.com/24lob5v.jpg
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Apr 16, 2011 11:11
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Providing advanced weapons to the rebels will make the recipient of those arms the de facto leaders of the rebellion. Who is getting these weapons will be very important for the future of the country.
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Apr 17, 2011 06:35
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Party Plane Jones posted:If I remember right there are retrofit packages (the JDAM) for dumb bombs that make them decently accurate to their targets that cost basically nothing compared to a Tomahawk or cruise missile. The US shouldn't run out of those for a while. For US bombs. Which won't fit on French or British planes.
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Apr 17, 2011 19:47
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Brown Moses posted:I think the plan is to get every country in the world to send 10 people, then it won't look like an invasion. It's also interesting all the news reports fail to label them correctly as mercenaries.
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Apr 20, 2011 13:55
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It's very unlikely the rebels have killed more people with their shelling then the regular army purely because they have so little firepower. Give them a few hundred pieces of heavy artillery and they would of course blast the poo poo of of any town where a pro-Gadaffy soldier was spotted.
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Apr 21, 2011 09:30
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Concerned Citizen posted:Sorry for the ambiguity, but by "killed more civilians than Qaddafi soldiers," I meant that the rebels had killed more civilians with their shelling than they had managed to Qaddafi soldiers. I'm certain Qaddafi has killed more civilians than the rebels. Ah, I misread that one. It's going to be hard to prove this is correct or not, I suspect it will depend on how many 'African mercenaries' were killed after those irresponsible and deeply racist twitter messages claiming atrocities carried out by Africans came up early in the conflict.
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Apr 21, 2011 09:53
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Brown Moses posted:
It's indeed a Milan being fired and hitting a pile of wood or straw a mile or so away, if they train with live rounds they must have more where that came from. A few dozen of these will ruin any attacks with armor from the government forces over open terrain.
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Apr 21, 2011 13:03
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Tovarisch Rafa posted:
It's already there, cunningly abandoned by the US in 1970 as if they knew it would be used 40 years later  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelus_Air_Base
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Apr 22, 2011 06:20
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