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CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Jut posted:

Are bullets not going to fly straight through the fence they strapped to the side of that truck?

Those bullet holes are just painted on, look how carefully they placed to look randomly apart from each other, never right next to another.

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CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
Sixty thousand government troops in Zlitan ? That's more then twice the complete strength of the Libyan Army pre-uprising, sounds like more bullshit from the usual twitter sources.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
It's a T-80, you can see it from the shape of hatches.

http://i.imgur.com/xJAPb.gif

edit: or a T-72, they have a similar look

CeeJee fucked around with this message at 09:14 on May 7, 2011

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
It seems weird a boat with no power on a 1,5 knot current manages to drift past the Charles De Gaulle CVN which is launching jets. Something it can only do at full speed, more then 25 knots.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

farraday posted:

Well there's this too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2imnqC9vdnw&feature=share

Some pictures of mobile rocket launchers presumably captured. I cant verify it's from the airport, but it's clear from the terrain around them as the jury rigged combat vehicle convoy drives off they're out of the city.


Those big rockets at 0:13 are SA-3 anti air missiles on transport trucks. They can't be fired from the trucks but are loaded onto an actual launcher from them.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Wiz posted:

Psst, the arab spring revolutions are as much about economic conditions as lack of democracy. Spain's economic conditions are poo poo right now.

But it's not because of Zapatero stealing billions to build palaces while keeping the populace poor.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
Calling the civilian dead victims of snipers is just more propaganda. It conjures up the image of some rear end in a top hat putting the crosshairs on a random innocent civilian and shooting them in the back. Probably smiling while he does it.

In reality it could just as well be the random fire from rebels in populated areas that ends up killing the people they are supposed to be fighting for. All those 23mm rounds, Grad rockets and helicopter missiles fired from moving pickups without any attempts at aiming will end up hitting the ground somewhere.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Sneakums posted:

Negative sentiment towards Israel isn't that rare in the middle east.



Neither are brutal dictators so it's OK for the new regime in Libya to be one of those, that's just how things are there.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

shotgunbadger posted:

So many posters had no grasp who Ghadaffi was then?

Looking back on discussions on Ghadaffi's UN speech in 2010 and the Lockerbie bomber release in 2009 there was very little interest in looking at Ghadaffi beyond him being a victim of US agression.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

A student posted:



Prior to the Iraq invasion people claimed that Saddam posed an existential threat to his people, Iraq's neighbors, and to the United States.

While his threat to his neighbours and the US was non-existent Saddam has killed much more of his people since the end of the 1991 war then Gadaffi has. The reason no UN approved intervention happened in Iraq was international power politics, not that Iraq failed to meet some standard of brutality Libya has now exceeded.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Brown Moses posted:

AJE just posted a report by Jonah Hull from the captured ammo depot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDfpNbazfvs
Can anyone identify the various shoulder rocket launchers they are carrying about? And was that a Shilka driving about with the tanks?

Those guys at 1:57 have two Strela anti aircraft missiles and that was indeed a Shilka between those two T-55's.

It also is interesting all those ammo crates have English text on them but it's probably a universal standard even for suppliers like Russia or China to label stuff they export in English.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Are women not allowed to attend such funeral demonstrations ?

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
Did anyone ever figure out if Mubarak really had 70 billion like it was claimed at the height of the protests ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/04/hosni-mubarak-family-fortune

It always seemed strange to me he was apparently the the second richest person in the world without ever appearing on any list of billionaires.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

SRQ posted:

Wait, there are pro-gaddafi people?

They're more automatically for anyone that the US is dropping bombs on.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
This is all a clever ruse by the brilliant Colonel to draw the rebels into a certain defeat.

quote:

Independent journalist Lizzie Phelan who is in Tripoli says allowing the rebels inside the capital could well be a strategic move on the part of Libya troops who have corralled the rebels into a single location.
She argues that loyalist forces remain in de facto control of the city.
Most of the rebels who are not busy looting are now gathering on the Green Square in the center of Tripoli waving flags.
“What we have heard is that the strategy of the Libyan government and army was to permit the rebels into the city because previously they have been operating in a sneaky manner and it was very difficult to know who they were and where they were hiding, so that they could be dealt with in a direct manner,”

http://rt.com/news/foreign-trapped-hotel-tripoli-975/

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Toplowtech posted:

Now if he ends up saved by the CIA or the MI6 i won't stop laughing for a few days.

I can just see him standing there as helicopters evacuate everyone else, refusing to believe there is a helicopter.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Slave posted:

I'm sure its all just bluster. The prospect of extraditing a guy who is basically already a corpse to face questioning and charges for crimes he has already been convicted and served his entire sentence for? It's ridiculous.

He was sentenced to life in prison.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Nenonen posted:

Since some of you wanted to see a game about the Libyan civil war, hey your prayers have been heard! Global Ops is a super realistic, OFP/Arma type military simulation and follows closely the historical events :madmax:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pk9XcCK9Co

And the 80's Commando Libya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYhPplBTdZ0

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
Maybe al-Harmoush was a Kurd, the Arab Spring is all good and fine for Turkey but they can't have any Kurds going around like they can start a rebellion.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
What's going on with all the articles opening with 'in a hotel' ?

quote:

They hold meetings, drink cappuccino in hotel lobbies and hold more meetings. Their phones ring with calls from Qatar, from Europe, from Benghazi. Former exiles huddle with teenagers who fought on the front lines and with men who were once powerful in the Gadhafi regime, and hope to be powerful again.

[...]

AREF NAYED was sipping cappuccino in the soaring marble lobby of the Corinthia Hotel near Tripoli’s seafront, quoting Montesquieu on law and Augustine on forgiveness in a conversation that had begun with earthier subjects, like the challenges of restoring Libya’s water supply and counting its dead.

[...]

Sitting in a lavish apartment in the wing of a 5-star Tripoli hotel once inhabited by Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif, Abdel Hakim Belhadj looked a bit out of place in his drab, beige and brown military fatigues.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

OwlBot 2000 posted:

Agreed -- as I already said, things were pretty peaceful and happy for Sunni, Shia, Bahai'i, Zoroastrians and others under democratically elected Mossadegh before the U.K. and USA overthrew him, and had the potential to be that way in many other states without continued interference.

Democratically elected in the cities where his power base was. Once those votes were counted the counting stopped.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Brown Moses posted:

A very interesting video from Caro, a modified Igla surface to air missile being used in the battle of Sirte
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR7-HgeG0Z4
Shows that maybe some of them were actually used in the fighting, not just looted to be sold on.

They are not using the anti air missile, just the launcher rigged to fire the rockets from those rocket pods mounted on pickup with slightly more accuracy.

In this clip I think you see the same launcher: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCyRBUAEneM

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

The-Mole posted:



Edit: and for the record, my girlfriend would beat the poo poo out of you if you tried to take her headscarf.

Would she do the same to anyone who would force women to wear one ?

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
So the area was closed off except for the eyewitnesses who conveniently saw the whole thing, including the planting of bodies. Sounds a bit fishy.

Of course if you cannot except the anti government forces to be capable of such an indiscriminate attack just claim it was a false flag operation and carry on. If the attack is in a high security area it must be a false flag attack, who else (except the eyewitnesses) had access ? And if it was not in a high security area it must be a false flag attack as the rebels would have no reason to attack such an unimportant place.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
From the image quality it's clearly a digital camera which were not available in the Lebanese civil war.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Barry the Sprout posted:

In the interview he says that the air force was being used to control the cities. This is clearly a big lie, as there would have been all sorts of verifiable proof if this had occurred.

I would very much call into question this man's testimony to be honest.

The Air Force security services were mentioned a lot of times as being very involved in supressing the rebellion. The Air Force was Hafez Assad's branch of the military so it would make sense it was the most loyalist part of the armed forces.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
Rulers have been using foreign troops rather then locals to put down uprisings since the Romans.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

bich posted:

Yeah this is probably more the case, i'm sure Syria has plenty of designated marksmen but ones who are willing to sit in a city and murder their own unarmed countrymen in cold blood one after another probably less so

I think it's not a lack of people willing to kill but less risk of them defecting to the other side. With all the defections that have happened I can imagine a significant part of Assad's most reliable troops are watching the less reliable ones. For non-Syrians it's much less likely they defect to the rebels, they'd probably be killed as spies if they tried.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
It's weird to see people now complaining the security forces are not using that horrible US made tear gas.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Corny posted:

I like how Hezbollah is still "resisting" against Israel, when Lebanon has not been occupied by Israel since 2000. One could count the Shebaa, but that situation is so loving murky it's not even worth talking about.


And Hezbollah is now helping Syria which only recognized Lebanon as a sovereign state four years ago.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Kenning posted:

The criteria for calling something a genocide is pretty specific, and Sabra and Shatila met those criteria, while Hama did not.

Then the Damour massacre in 1976 should meet those criteria and have been condemned by the UNSC. The massacre where Palestinians killed hundreds of Christians, including the family of the leader of the militia that carried out Sabra and Shatila.

If Americans or Israeli civilians were killed by someone who lost their relatives at the hands of their countrymen it would be called blowback but in the case of Sabra and Shatila there seems very little interest to look beyond blaming Ariel Sharon.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Golbez posted:

Has Jordan been involved at all with the FSA?

Jordan tries to keep out of everyone's way. Although it would be ironic if Jordan intervened in Syria after Syria sent their tanks (hastily painted to look as if they were the Palestinian Liberation Army) into Jordan in '71 to support an uprising.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Brown Moses posted:

Shilka opening fire in Douma, Syria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq6WOmkEWJw

There's also reports of Saadi Gaddafi being arrested in Niger after an interview promising an uprising in Libya.

The Bashar Assad portraits on the turret next to the guns are a nice touch.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Brown Moses posted:


Paul Wood of the BBC has also recorded his throughts after returning from Syria in this piece, Syria's slide towards civil war.

This is pretty bad:

quote:

To explain, they showed me a film taken from the mobile phone of a captured Shabiha. Prisoners lay face down on the ground, hands tied behind their backs. One-by-one, their heads were cut off.

The man wielding the knife said, tauntingly, to the first: "This is for freedom."

As his victim's neck opened, he went on: "This is for our martyrs. And this is for collaborating with Israel."

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
Hasn't US aid always been linked to the CD accords ?

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
Apparently the Egyptian public thinks their economy is in such good shape they don't want US aid anyway.

quote:

The poll shows that that 71 percent of Egyptians are opposed to US economic aid, and that 74 percent oppose direct US aid to Egyptian civil society organizations.
http://www.egyptindependent.com/node/642996

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler
Could be an Iranian made UAV

http://i.imgur.com/WDuyc.jpg

edit: this one looks even more like that picture, the wings of the Heron UAV are way bigger

http://i.imgur.com/bnql6.jpg

CeeJee fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Feb 25, 2012

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

That's some class PR work there.

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Al-Saqr posted:

No, there's a difference, you know as well as anyone that the term 'yahud' is the (unfortunate) colloquialism for Israel and it's used even by liberals and secularists, but definitely the vast majority of the imams in egypt would never call for the elimination of Egyptian Jews or things like that.

Are there any Jews left in Egypt anyway ?

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CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001
Oven Wrangler

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

Jesus Christ, Homs looks like it's gone through a WW2 blitzkrieg. I had no idea it was that brutal. It's worse than Srebenica!

Srebrenica was hardly shelled at all, once Nasr Oric had left and the UN peacekeepers had surrendered the Serbs could waltz in and put everyone on the bus or against the wall.

Speaking of Srebrenica, the Dutch Supreme Court has ruled this week the UN is immune to any form of prosecution by families of the people killed there. They are literally above the law.

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