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Apr 25, 2024 11:42
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Look who's stuck her oar in:
quote:We join the Libyan people in gratefulness as we hear of Col. Gaddafi’s defeat. The fall of a tyrant and sponsor of terrorism is a great day for freedom-loving people around the world. But the path to democracy in Libya is not complete, and we must make wise choices to ensure that our national interests are protected.
First, the White House needs to avoid triumphalism. Gaddafi may be gone, but the fighting may not be complete. As we’ve seen in Kosovo, Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, we must not celebrate too quickly. There are now mounting concerns that we will see tribal and sectarian fighting in Libya like we saw in Iraq. Let’s hope that is not the case, but it must be prepared for.
Second, we must be very concerned about the future government that will emerge to take Gaddafi’s place. History teaches that those with the guns usually prevail when a coalition overthrows a tyrant. We must remember that military power ultimately resides with the rebel commanders. This should be a source of some concern. The armed opposition to Gaddafi is an outgrowth of a group called Islamic Libya Fighting Group, and some rebel commanders admit that they have Al Qaeda links. The rebel fighters are from different tribes, and they have a variety of political views. Some are Islamists, some appear to favor some sort of western democracy. We should work through diplomatic means to help those who want democracy to come out on top.
That said, we should not commit U.S. troops or military assets to serve as peacekeepers or perform humanitarian missions or nation-building in Libya. Our military is already over-committed and strained, and a vaguely designed mission can be the first step toward a quagmire. The internal situation does not seem stable enough for U.S. forces to operate in a purely humanitarian manner without the possibility of coming under attack. Troop deployment to Libya would mean placing America’s finest in a potentially hostile zone that is not in our vital national security interest.
Finally, we must make sure that terrorist groups don’t try to co-opt the revolution, as Al Qaeda is trying to do in Syria. We should continue to use our intelligence assets to monitor the situation in Libya to ensure that potentially dangerous weapons are secured, and that terrorist organizations such as Al Qaeda don’t gain a foothold in Libya.
People of Libya, be vigilant. May this opportunity be used to build a free and peaceful country.
- Sarah Palin
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Aug 25, 2011 21:40
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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For clarity, it was a group of apartment blocks, not just one.
Some recent tweets from journalists in the area, the first one is pretty significant:
Tripoli
Andrew Simmons of AJE tweeted over the past 4 hours@
quote:Returned last night from what was a truly horrific visit to a hospital in Tripoli. Compiling a report.
in case you didn't see earlier report on compound fighting and secret tunnels http://t.co/jDICpbD
Just finished editing a disturbing report on Tripoli's Abu Salim Trauma Hospital. Bodies lie outside and inside.
Abu Salim Trauma Hospital -- cut off from any outside help. Seven medics, only 2 docs trying to cope with 21 seriously ill.
Say their mortuary is full and bodies have to lie in a side ward and outside. We counted 29. Docs say more than 100 in total.
Some are civilians. Eye witness tells me GF shot them dead insicriminately.
Abu Salem - eye witness, a restaurant owner says the killings were on Sunday.
Abu Salem - Horrific pictures in Trauma Hospital. Trail of dry blood leads to makeshift morgue. Stench all over hospital.
Abu Salim Hospital - Drs appeal for outside help. Two dead in 2 days because no power for ventilator. Man with bullet in spine CPR x3.
Abu Salim Hosp - Investigation needed re war crimes. And immediate action. Humanitarian emergency.
Abu Salim Hosp: Report will air on AJE this morning. Warning on graphic content.
James Bay of AJE in the last hour
quote:#LIBYA been up early in Tripoli on #AJE live duty - pretty calm for now.
I have heard NATO jets in the skies over last two hours. I have not heard the sound of bombing
Mary Fitzgerald of the Irish Times in the last hour
quote:Saw 2 women, w/ hands bound, brought into rebel base last night. Rebels said they were foreign mercenaries caught shooting on Tripoli street
Paul Danahar of the BBC in the last hour
quote:3 small fishing boats have turned up in #Tripoli harbor carrying NTC fighters but think they are too late. City v quiet.
I am just off Green, now Martyrs square in #Tripoli .It's 8am & the city is silent. You'd never know a war just been fought for it.
We'll know the #Libyan war is over if the umpteenth resignation of a #Japanese PM knocks it off as lead story.
Nafusa
Marc Herman of The Atlantic
quote:Nafusa: militiamen now need written permission from superiors to bear arms on travel between towns, checkpoints in effect. Feels like order.
...of course, there's also a truck with a rocket launcher in the back doing donuts across the street.
Philippina nurse in Nalut hospital got US$700 in back pay this week. Had worked for free since January. Still pissed no Western Union yet.
...then again, I suspect if I'd had a truck with a rocket launcher when I was 19, donuts in the parking lot is the least I would have done.
Good news coming out of Nafusa then, good to see it's getting under control and more secure, and money is flowing in. Tripoli also seems quiet this morning, I guess last nights fighting dislodged alot of the remaining Gaddafi forces.
Seems like Gaddafi's forces decided to kill as many people as possible in the final days, hopefully that report will be up on AJE soon.
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Aug 26, 2011 08:18
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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More from the road to Sirte too:
quote:Paul Wood BBC News, near Sirte
Rebels are building up their forces to attack Sirte. There are, they believe, about 1,500 Gaddafi loyalists on the road [into the town]. One officer told me he thought it was a deliberate delaying tactic... in order to to better prepare the defences of Sirte. We saw a lot of tanks being moved up yesterday and digging in for this smaller battle on the road before they get to Sirte itself. They think that will take three or four days.
Rebels tell me that tribal leaders, wanting to avoid some kind of bloodbath, have been trying to negotiate a peaceful end to this. According to the rebels, at least, the block in the way of that is the Gaddafi forces from the Khamis brigade - one of his elite forces - not allowing negotiations to continue. So everybody this side of the front line expects this to end in a battle rather than some kind of negotiated settlement.
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Aug 26, 2011 08:22
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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It's really starting to look like Hana Gaddafi didn't die in the US air strike
quote:Evidence suggests daughter did not die in 1986 bombing as claimed
FOR DECADES her name was invoked by Muammar Gadafy and his apologists as proof of his personal suffering as a result of the US bombing of his Tripoli compound in 1986.
After US aircraft struck the Bab al-Azizia complex on April 14th that year, in revenge for the bombing of the La Belle nightclub in Berlin by Libyan agents, the regime announced that an adopted infant daughter of Col Gadafy, named Hana, had died in the raid.
The news was carried on Libya’s radio, TV and print media, despite claims that Col Gadafy had moved his family to safety, having received prior warning of the strikes.
An American journalist at the time was shown the body of a baby and told it was Hana. Since then, Col Gadafy has repeatedly referred to her supposed death to bolster the notion that he had been a victim of western military aggression.
On the 20th anniversary of the US attack, the Libyan regime organised the “Hana Festival of Freedom and Peace” to commemorate the incident.
Hana’s existence was debated by intelligence agencies in the aftermath of the bombing, which then US president Ronald Reagan ordered to strike back at what he called the “mad dog of the Middle East”.
Many Libyans have long doubted the story. In the rebel stronghold of Benghazi earlier this year, I heard constant claims that Hana had studied medicine and was working as a doctor in Tripoli. “The whole story that she was killed was just more of Gadafy’s propaganda,” one man told me.
Libyan web forums have buzzed with allegations that Hana was still alive and living in the capital. “When I asked who she was, I was told she was Hana Gadafy, Gadafy’s adopted daughter who was supposedly killed in 1986,” wrote an anonymous online commentator who claimed to have studied medicine at Tripoli’s main university at the same time. Diplomatic circles in Tripoli are said to have known about Hana’s existence for several years.
Yesterday in the terracotta-coloured section of Bab al-Azizia where the Gadafy family lived, I came across a room which seemed to be part-study, part-lounge. Its contents – including a Sex and the City DVD box set; CDs of the Backstreet Boys ; cellulite treatments; WellWoman vitamin supplements and stuffed toys – hinted that it belonged to a young woman.
Amid the bookshelves lined with medical textbooks and copies of Col Gadafy’s Green Book , I found passport photographs of a woman, dressed in medical garb, who appeared to be in her mid- 20s.
Some of the rebels sifting through the room’s contents shouted excitedly: “It’s Hana, it’s Hana, the daughter Gadafy lied about. This was her room.”
I found an examination paper from a Libyan university medical faculty which was signed “Hana Muammar Gadafy” in Arabic. A photograph showed a woman who seemed to be Hana with a group of people, including Col Gadafy’s blood daughter Aisha.
A British Council certificate, dated July 19th, 2007, showed that a Hana Muammar Gadafy had completed an English language course at its Libyan centre, achieving an A grade.
A small envelope marked “Miss Hana Muammar, Room 510” contained undated notes from Mohamad Azwai, who referred to himself as Libya’s ambassador to the UK, and his wife, wishing Hana a pleasant stay in London.
A postcard sent from a woman named Katia in Rome was addressed only to Room No 140, Hotel President Wilson, Geneva.
In February, the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag obtained a copy of a document related to the freezing of Muammar Gadafy’s assets in Switzerland after Libya’s uprising began. The document listed 23 members of the Gadafy clan. The seventh name on the list is Hana Gadafy. A Swiss government spokesperson told Welt am Sonntag: “There are reasons why the name is on the list, which we are not revealing publicly.”
Hana’s date of birth is listed as November 11th, 1985, which would have made her six months old at the time of the US air strike, which was carried out shortly after the Berlin bombing in which three people, including two American soldiers, were killed.
The newspaper reported that Hana was a doctor working for the country’s health ministry. Libyan exiles said she was a powerful figure in the Libyan medical profession, who had used her status to hinder the promotions of colleagues.
“Several hospitals were under her guidance,” the newspaper said. “No one could make a career within the ministry of health, without her consent.” It reported that she was said to speak fluent English and that she had travelled frequently to London on shopping trips.
In 1999, the Chinese state news agency Xinhua reported that “Gadafy’s wife, Safia Farkash al-Barassi, and Gadafy’s daughters Aisha and Hana” had had lunch with then South African president Nelson Mandela. Photographs showed a young girl with Mrs Gadafy and Aisha.
It now seems almost certain that Hana Muammar Gadafy did not die in the 1986 bombing of the Gadafy compound, but her current whereabouts, like those of her adoptive father, mother and siblings, remain a mystery.
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Aug 26, 2011 08:46
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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There has been a lot of stuff floating about saying Hana Gaddafi is alive, including the German newspaper article, it's just never really been possible to prove 100%. Hopefully there's plenty of photos being taken of what they've found for future reference.
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Aug 26, 2011 09:14
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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The new NATO report has 29 armed vehicles destroyed in the vicinity of Sirte yesterday.
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Aug 26, 2011 09:29
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Some nutter on the Guardian live blog is accusing me of being a MI5/6 war criminal, good times.
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Aug 26, 2011 09:44
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Can we change the thread titles to "BROWN MOSES is a MI agent and is woried about being tried for war crimes"?
Some updates about the tunnels from the Guardian
quote:AP has new footage of rebels entering Gaddafi's tunnels in Tripoli. They found stores of food, water, banks of phones and files, and another golf buggy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juIvucFxKCk
The Washington Post took a tour of one the bunkers.
quote: Forty feet underground, beneath a sprawling Gaddafi family mansion, lies a bunker that would have made a great place to hide.
The entrance is hard to find: To get there, you go past the front door equipped with a fingerprint reader, through the garden and behind neatly trimmed shrubs, where there is a mysterious passageway. From there, it's three flights of stairs down until you arrive at a one-foot-thick steel door. Behind the door, there's a lair straight out of a James Bond film ...
As the rebel forces continue to hunt for Gaddafi and his sons, the nest of bunkers and tunnels beneath this capital city has become a prime focus of their search.
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Aug 26, 2011 10:05
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Sadly the moderators have gone through a deleted most of the posts that were attacking me, no doubt making the posters even crazier.
Sounds like there's a water shortage in Tripoli now, with running water cut off. Hopefully aid ships can start reaching Tripoli very soon.
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Aug 26, 2011 10:24
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Update from Tripoli
quote:"The emergency room is awash with blood," Martin Chulov reports from Tripoli's Matiga hospital where scores of Gaddafi's fighters are being treated after a fierce gun battle in the Abu Salim neighbourhood. Speaking by telephone from the hospital, Martin said:
quote:It's a scene of organised chaos. The emergency room is awash with blood and iodine and people trying to clean up as more patients come in. What we are dealing with here is a large number of Gaddafi loyalists who were injured in fighting late yesterday. Many of them are in particularly bad shape. A couple of them look quite emaciated - they haven't eaten or drunk for a couple of days and they have got some severe wounds. The doctors here say they are being treated just like any other patient would be; there is no discrimination.
Of the battle itself, Martin said:
quote:It was a particularly lethal afternoon. There was a fierce battle that ensued in the suburb of Abu Salim ... where an apartment complex was assaulted by rebels and defended heavily by regime loyalists. The rebels were speculating that there may have been some high targets inside that building. There weren't. However there was a fierce firefight for it.
There has been no more fighting today, Martin reports, but he says the National Transitional Council faces a tough challenge to form a government in Tripoli.
quote: They [the NTC] know they have to get here as soon as they can to establish some order [to Tripoli] to avoid things decaying.
We are seeing large numbers or rebels arriving from the east. As we were arriving at the hospital there were large numbers of battle trucks from Misrata and Benghazi for the very first time. That seemed to a symbolic breakthrough for the eastern rebels. In terms of the political administration, it is not a stable city, and they don't have a base here yet. But they will need to have one very soon.
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Aug 26, 2011 11:39
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Here's the same video on Youtube, great report:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znMYDsbkwRw
There's also two great articles in the Economist, one on the NTC, and one with more details of the end game.
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Aug 26, 2011 12:49
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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rebels.txt
quote:Checkpost Tripoli, rebel manning it used to live London, says "cheers." #Liverpool fan drives up, shouts "you'll never walk alone"
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Aug 26, 2011 13:32
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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I've seen it before, but it is great, plus it has a black rebel in picture 3, which is always handy to have.
Here's a good article about the situation in Tripoli
quote:The Star in Tripoli: A capital in chaos
The rebels say they control the airport. That they have secured most of the city. That it is mostly safe here.
But the Toronto Star’s travels through the Libyan capital Thursday found confusion and chaos, sniper fire and a gun battle waged in front of a seaside hotel.
If the rebels claim to have momentum, superiority in manpower and Moammar Gadhafi cornered, then it also seems those Gadhafi loyalists who remain are entrenched.
Around 2 p.m. here, directly in front of the Corinthia Hotel on the Mediterranean and in an area that seemed to be in rebel control, about 10 rebels swung their guns left to right, firing Kalashnikovs and larger-calibre guns at two buildings where they said loyalist snipers were positioned.
During one sustained volley, a hotel manager in a navy suit and black Oxfords tried to rush inside the lobby but froze with his hand on the door, his face twitching and eyes blinking with each gunshot.
The shooting raged for 30 minutes. Pickup trucks, their beds crawling with shooters, edged away from the hotel and closer to the buildings while five other fighters took elevators to the hotel’s top floors.
Then it was over. The rebels claimed to have chased the snipers from their positions. “Now everything is good,” said the bearded rebel in command.
Hotel security worker Abdul Salam, a look of concern on his face, was asked how he felt. Belying the look of concern on his face, he said, “I am happy. No problem. If you die, there is a God,” then hurried inside. Salam theorized the sniper wanted to kill journalists gathered at the hotel.
Mukhtar Nagasa, another rebel who prefers to be called a freedom fighter and is a dentist who treats his fellow soldiers’ teeth, downplayed the gunfight. As he stood among the spent shells, said, “I think there is no sniper. Here there is no fighting.”
Beneath their confident reports, unease and anxiety lingers.
Retribution on both sides seems to be fierce, according to reports that surfaced Thursday, prompting calls from human rights groups for the humane treatment of those captured in war. A BBC correspondent reported that he saw the bullet-ridden bodies of 17 boys and men at a hospital in Tripoli, apparently executed by Gadhafi loyalists.
Wire service reporters counted more than two dozen bodies, some of them with hands tied, scattered across the grassy square near Gadhafi’s compound, Bab al-Aziziya. The dead were believed to include Gadhafi sympathizers.
Rebels claim to have controlled the airport for four days now. But one of the leaders of the effort there, Ibrahim Madani, said loyalists continue shelling and two days ago destroyed a civilian airplane.
“There is some bombardment from a distance,” said the young soldier who says his father Mohamed was recently killed by loyalists in Zintan to the west of Tripoli.
Fighting has also been intense in the Abu Salim neighbourhood , as rebels continue to hunt for Gadhafi and his sons. Streams of blood ran down the gutters and turned sewers red. A rumour — impossible to verify — circulated that the leader was cornered in an apartment block near his compound.
By sundown the rebels appeared to have won the battle for Abu Salim, but the fallen dictator continued to elude them.
Meanwhile, an evacuation ship waited in port for at least 100 people trying to flee. And Gadhafi taunted his enemies in an audio statement Thursday, calling for Tripoli to be cleansed of “rats, crusaders and unbelievers.”
Earlier in the day, in some supposedly rebel-controlled neighbourhoods, nervous sentries click-clacked their guns ready at the sounds of gunfire sounding from kilometres away. The shots could have been fired by an approaching enemy or by celebrating compatriots.
Early in the morning, around 5 a.m., loyalists shot into a rebel compound from a moving vehicle, according to the rebels stationed there. The compound is one of many complexes on the main road in western Tripoli that previously served as schools or post-secondary institutions. Two kilometres down the road at another school, formerly a technical academy for the study of oil exploration, two rebels were wounded in a similar drive-by shooting shortly after 5 a.m., rebels there said.
At the first compound, 28-year-old Issa Ali Alftaisi, who worked in a factory before joining the rebels, said loyalists continue to cause “big trouble” while his side struggles to maintain their positions. “Every day, no food, no water.”
Inside a large, filthy room, a fighter slept in a cot, a blanket over his face. Next to him sat a small drone reconnaissance aircraft.
Alftaisi wants to return to his hometown of Gurian, south of Tripoli, but will not risk the snipers. “Not good. Many people from Gadhafi along the way there.”
He said his side controls 80 per cent of Tripoli. Fearing snipers Thursday morning, rebels in this neighbourhood in western Tripoli did not want to drive roads that are dotted with friendly checkpoints.
Then Alftaisi, in sandals and Adidas track pants, grinned, added, “Maybe in five days, we free all Libya. God willing.”
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Aug 26, 2011 13:42
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Another update from Sirte
quote:Rebel units are massing in Misrata for an attack on Sirte, Muammar Gaddafi's birthplace, writes Chris Stephen in Misrata.
quote:Tanks, heavy artillery and rocket launchers abandoned by fleeing government forces, are being assembled for the attack, and hurriedly painted black, a precaution against being hit in friendly fire incidents.
Rebels told the Guardian on Thursday that a British and French special forces team is helping co-ordinate the assault, in which Misratan units will push eastwards to link up with forces from Benghazi which are this morning fighting their way westwards.
Misratan rebels are also advancing in other directions: one unit has reached the outskirts of Beni Walid, 100 miles south west, and was attempting to negotiate the surrender its loyalist defenders.
Rebel fighters are still based in Misrata, however, and commuting every day to the front line, in what is a often family affair. Typically, one brother will join his brigade in Tripoli or on the Sirte front while the other will stay on checkpoint duty in Misrata, then swapping over the following day.
"We keep going," said rebel fighter Abdullah Maiteeg, a former oil engineer who was preparing to leave for Tripoli to replace his own brother fighting there. He said the priority was to find Gaddafi. "We have to get the G-dog," he said. "I don't stop fighting until I see him."
Misrata's city's fighters have been involved in some of the bloodiest battles in Tripoli this week, their home-made armoured vehicles much in demand as clashes continue in the streets of the Libyan capital.
And the city's Mujamma Aleiadat hospital is once again choked with the wounded. With the capital's own hospitals overworked, Misrata ships its dead and injured fighters back down the highway from Tripoli: In two days the hospital has registered 12 dead and more than 40 wounded from street fighting in the capital.
When power cuts hit in the early hours of the morning and the emergency generators lacked the power to keep air conditioners working, the lightly wounded were wheeled out into the hospital forecourt for the cool breeze coming in off the sea.
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Aug 26, 2011 13:49
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Chuck Boone posted:
Seeing all the videos of people going through Gaddafi's luxurious homes makes me wonder what people like Lizzie Phelan and pro-Gaddafi folks have to say about their existence. Gaddafi and his family lived in luxury their whole lives while the rest of the country had very little. How can anyone justifiy that level of inequality?
Hollywood film sets in Qatar seems to be the main one.
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Aug 26, 2011 14:28
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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They keep posting pictures of Green Square from 30 years ago, point out the differences between that and pictures from Green Square this week, and claiming it's all fake. They've also latched onto the BBC accidentally showing the protests in India with a caption of Green Square, and saying it was Tripoli, as some sort of conspiracy, even though they were all holding massive Indian flags.
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Aug 26, 2011 14:50
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Sara Sidner of CNN
quote:Just went down some of the tunnels Gadhafi had built under his compound. Unreal. Rumours of a massive underground tunnel complex r true.
Arwa Damon of CNN
quote:artillery, gunfire &NATO jets over us @ #tripoli int'l airport. rebel commanders here still believe #gadhafi in east area they dont control.
Jonny Hallam
quote:Filmed round a looted house in brega. Found a land mine hidden at doorway left by retreating gads. Trap for people returning home?
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Aug 26, 2011 14:59
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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LibyanLiberal just tweeted his latest updates
quote:
Abu saleem, we still hold despite the rummors all night clashes near the green square,we reach near corinthia hotel but got back.
Last night some group of rebels entered Abu salim, none left, the situation is hard, water is cut in our district,rebels cut it.
We hold in many areas of Tripoli , but more and more people are forced to go out of their homes and used as shields by rebels.
someone called me last night and told me in bf there are photos of rebels abusing black Libyan like me and capture and execute them.
we know where the Atman Mlegta is located. tday we will go for him by any cost. Zintani that came to tripoli to rape and kill and loot.
I see my tweets dont appear in twitter tielines. but its okey truth is alwayts showed. victory and steadfast.
the bodies of dead people are rotting iunder the sun. many unburied. this is not muslim rebels are not muslims.
Rebels steal , kill , rape, and leave people unburried. this is crime and certaintly not something that a muslim do. they are kaffur.
We hope for the popeple to come and join us. but the rebels kill ayone that tries to come into areas we control.leader is here with us.
Leader and sons are leading us. they come with us in many fronts. we hope for victory. we dont want the berbers to burn Tripoli.
Whoever says leader is away. i tell him. leader is in Tripoli leading the fight. saw him last night while iftar.
We hold firm in areas of east and south tripoli. we have problem near the coast only. we hope to victory.
need sleep but i cant sleep. we see rebels last night from 200 meters distance holding captives as shields. we didnt shoot at them (1/2)
when rebels came close they exacuted the captives and then starting shooting randmoly at houses near abu saleem (2/2)
i coant ype more things. too much blood. civilians killed in all rebel held areas and people are afraid like scared childs.
inscallah victory is at hand and we will have glory or martydom.we the mujaheed.its now jihad against nato.
And spread the message leader and sons are located in the tripoli area defending and leading the fights. they did not flee as MSM claim.
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Aug 26, 2011 15:07
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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More evidence of Gaddafi prisoner executions
quote:Gaddafi loyalists killed numerous detainees at two military camps in Tripoli on 23 and 24 August, according to Amnesty International.
Eyewitness testimony from escaped detainees described how loyalist troops used grenades and gunfire on scores of prisoners at one camp, while guards at the other camp shot dead five detainees they were holding in solitary confinement, the humanitarian organisation said.
In one military camp, Khilit al-Ferjan, in the south-west of Tripoli, about 160 detainees began to escape after two guards told them the gates were unlocked. But as they "barged" through the gates, other guards opened fire and threw five hand grenades at the detainees. It is unclear how many died but Amnesty said at least 23 escaped. Hussein al-Lafi, 40, from Zawiya, said:
quote:I was standing by the door when I spotted two guards. They immediately opened fire, and I saw one of them holding a hand grenade. Seconds later, I heard an explosion, followed by four more. I fell on the ground face-down; others fell on top of me and I could feel their warm blood … People were screaming and there were many more rounds of fire.
His brothers Jamal, Osama and Mohamed were all killed.
At another camp, Qasr Ben Ghashir, guards shot dead five detainees captured during the conflict and being held in solitary confinement. Other detainees panicked and broke out of their cells, fearing they were about to be executed.
Claudio Cordone of Amnesty International said: "Loyalist forces in Libya must immediately stop such killings of captives."
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Aug 26, 2011 15:10
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Interesting update from the Tunisian border on AJE
quote:Rebels and forces loyal to fallen Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi battled at Ras Jdir on Libya's coastal border with Tunisia on Friday, a witness in the area said.
Tunisian officials said the army had closed the frontier area, an important crossing point for humanitarian aid and other supplies destined for Libya.
"Clashes are starting between large numbers of rebels and forces loyal to Gaddafi for control of the border," said local resident Fathi Chandol.
"The army asked us to stay away from the area," he told Reuters. "The area has been declared a closed military zone."
The Libyan rebels are keen to control the crossing because it will allow them to bring in supplies of food, water and other essentials from Tunisia. - Reuters
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Aug 26, 2011 15:20
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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More depressing poo poo from Abu Salim hospital:
quote:They say there are still snipers around the Abu Salim district so best not to simply drive to the hospital there.
Our driver left us on the main road running by the hospital building. We’d done a recce and seen a hole in the fence.
We split up to present less of a target – myself, cameraman Stuart Webb and our security adviser, a former Royal Marine best left unnamed – and we legged it across the empty dual carriageway and hit that hole in the fence.
We’d arranged to RV with our van under a nearby flyover in one hour precisely.
Fifty yards from the main entrance something was wrong.
Very wrong.
Four Red Cross ambulances lined up and staff hurriedly stretchered out the last few injured men.
“Conditions in there are dreadful – just dreadful,” said Red Cross worker Bridget Comninos, “we are just trying to assist doctors here.”
In one ambulance a man, almost incoherent with fear, just kept saying: “Al Hamdillulah” – thank God.
Three young children sat near him almost beatifically calm in their shock.
Ten feet away, outside the main door, a dead man’s corpse hummed with clouds of flies.
Piles of surgical dressings, bloody sheets and half-empty blood bags were all around us, oozing fluids onto the ground.
Another body, inflated with decomposition, lies 20 yards away in the sun. Male, fighting age, half the head missing.
Fifty yards further on a pile of human bodies, bloated in the hot sun. I count 22 here, including three women, and one child. Some of the male bodies are in military clothing but not all.
Inside, it is not a hospital but a mortuary – or something for which there is no word.
Stretchers and beds are stained with fluids and blood, some still dripping on the floor.
In one room a picture of Colonel Gaddafi smiles down on at least 23 more corpses shoved onto trolleys at all angles.
There is no language for the stench. You fear even to breathe in here.
A hospital orderly vomits quietly in a corridor.
This is a lost place, abandoned in the chaos of fighting.
A hospital worker says we have seen only the bodies from fighting in Abu Salim in the past few days.
Downstairs, a fighter shoots the lock off the hospital basement and here are scores more bodies. Some are Col Gadaffi’s soldiers but another, broken child lies abandoned here too. Some were clearly shot dead but in all honesty most are too far gone to investigate.
I couldn’t do it.
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Aug 26, 2011 15:22
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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quote:More from Julian Borger on the NTC's attempts to free up frozen Libyan funds: The critical moment in the diplomacy is likely to come next week, he says, when the NTC's backers, the US, Britain and France, plan to push a resolution through the UN security council recognising the new government.
quote:This will unlock the door to the $100bn-plus in frozen Libyan state assets around the world, making the NTC certainly the most wealthy new players to emerge from the Arab spring. (The $1.5bn released last night and whatever the UK manages to get unfrozen today are special exemptions granting by the UN security council sanctions committee.)
The UK is apparently helping the NTC with auditing, but that is an awful lot of money and some of it will come, as it did notoriously in Iraq, in the form of shrink-wrapped blocks of banknotes. It would be extraordinary if Libya got away without industrial-scale embezzlement.
In terms of diplomatic tidiness, western diplomats hope the security council vote goes through before the Paris conference on Libya co-hosted by France and the UK next Thursday, so that it is not bogged down by the need to raise money during hard economic times. Ultimately, the UN vote will depend largely on the situation on the ground. If Muammar Gaddafi is caught and/or the fighting is over, it will be easier to convince Russia and China that the NTC are the unrivalled rulers of the new Libya and they should accept the new status quo.
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Aug 26, 2011 15:33
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Zeroisanumber posted:
You'd be surprised by how much better it will get once the area is secure enough for a gravedigging and cleaning detail to get in and work. As for medical supplies, didn't Gaddafi have some sort of big stash in a warehouse that the rebels stumbled across yesterday? Why aren't they loading armored cars and moving stuff over there?
There's been no confirmation that's actually true yet, just the NTC claiming it's there. No journalist has given a first hand account of seeing it, as far as I'm aware.
As has been said, it focuses too much on Benghazi while ignoring the situation in the rest of Libya. Nafusa was practically ignored for the first few months of the conflict, and they managed to grab quite a few towns without the help of NATO, so even if there was just a no fly zone they would have made significant progress. Even without a no fly zone the fighting in Misrata would have still involved alot of street fighting, and unless Gaddafi was planning to carpet bomb his Misrata his air force wouldn't have been much help.
Maybe the CIA did have some huge masterplan, but the CIA being the CIA we are hardly going to be able to find out anytime soon.
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Aug 26, 2011 16:16
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Tom Rayner of Sky News
quote: Big rebel push towards Saladin neighbourhood going on. Claim they're trying to take Khamis Brigade base. Heavy firefight when we were there
Rumour on fronline nr Rixos: Moussa Ibrahim captured last night in Sook Juma - BUT checked with rebel commander and he said it was false.
Don't suppose anyone knows where that district is, I can't find it on district map of the urban area, could it be further out?
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Aug 26, 2011 16:25
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Really listen to this, it's very interesting, she says the cases HRW have seen so far have been primarily on the Gaddafi side, what has been documented so far is exclusively from the Gaddafi side, but there's currently undocumented cases they haven't determined. They also acknowledge that the NTC have been very vocal about their forces not taking part in executions or revenge attacks, but not everyone seems to be listening.
Update from Andrew Simmons on Abu Salem hosptial:
quote:
ICRC have now evacuated Abu Salem Trauma Hospital. 21 seriously many needing surgery transferred ..
Out of the 21 seriously sick young boy with a bullet wound to chest male civilian bullet lodged in spine
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Aug 26, 2011 16:42
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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pistolshit posted:
Do you have the actual video?
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Aug 26, 2011 17:16
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Besesoth posted:
Here's the AJA video from Sunday night/Monday morning (it's an abbreviated version of what was on the live feed), when the rebels captured Green/Martyr's Square. (I've advanced it to the actual Square footage.) When the video's in motion, you can pretty clearly see the features that the anti-rebel propagandists are claiming aren't there, including the ridges over the leftmost gate and the door/window over the middle gate.
I love you.
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Aug 26, 2011 17:49
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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I know, but it makes them look like twats, which pisses them off.
The other "proof" they use as evidence of a conspiracy is this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_-lzI8I0_0
I just tell them it's a production error and to email BBC complaints.
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Aug 26, 2011
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Aug 26, 2011 18:02
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Yeah, it's just picking images that support your own false claim, the same sort of fakery they are accusing the vast media conspiracy of doing.
Anyway, I'm tired of conspiracies for tonight, I'm off to play Deus Ex for the rest of the evening. Here's my twitter list for updates from Libya.
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 26, 2011
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Aug 26, 2011 18:06
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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ecureuilmatrix posted:
Rebels in Ghadamis? I don't remember anything about rebels there before, is there more info? If true, that would be another border crossing in free libyan hands.
Wiki tells me the locals are mostly Berbers, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
Hope the UNESCO world heritage site is untouched.
That's the first I've heard that it's under the control of NTC forces, last I heard they were planning to capture it, but nothing since.
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Aug 27, 2011 10:11
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Libya: Gaddafi's defeated forces face up to a new reality - Meeting Gaddafi's soldiers in hospital.
Held hostage by Gaddafi - About the Rixos experience.
Latest NATO report
quote:Sorties conducted 26 AUGUST: 123
Strike sorties conducted 26 AUGUST:42
*Strike sorties are intended to identify and engage appropriate targets, but do not necessarily deploy munitions each time.
Key Hits 26 AUGUST:
In the vicinity of Tripoli:2 Military Facilities, 1 Military Storage Facility, 1 Surface to Surface Missile Launcher.
In the vicinity of Sirte: 1 ArmouredFighting Vehicle, 11 Armed Vehicles, 3 Logistic Military Vehicles, 1 Military Observation Point, 2 Military Shelters, 1 Military Engineer Asset.
In the vicinity of RasLanuf: 2 Multiple Rocket Launchers.
In the vicinity of El Assah: 1 Tank.
In the vicinity of Okba: 1 Surface to Air Missile Transporter, 1 Radar.
In the vicinity of Al Aziziyah: 1 Surface to Air Missile Launcher, 2 Radars.
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Aug 27, 2011 10:22
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Been a busy day for me, so I've been looking over my twitter list to see any interesting stuff. Something I noticed seemed to be a reference to Lizzie Phelan and friends in the Rixos:
quote:
Jomana Karadsheh of CNN
quote:regime loyalists who were tweeting from the #rixos when we were there- didnt realize we knew v well who they were
Gleichklang.de
quote:@JomanaCNN Some journalists who were not so pro-rebel as most western journalists are still missing. Do you know about them?
Jomana Karadsheh of CNN
quote:@gleichklang_de journos shouldnt be pro-anything.if ur talking abt the pro-regime bunch, they are on their way to malta i heard
Matthew Chance of CNN
quote:@JomanaCNN these guys made our captivity even more stressful with their irresponsible behaviour.
Jomana Karadsheh of CNN
quote:@mchancecnn agreed & very diplomatic Matthew!
Matthew Chance of CNN
quote:@JomanaCNN I'm not going to name them here because it will put them at risk. But don't think any of us at #rixo will forget
Nic Robertson of CNN has also been very active in the last four hours
quote:West of Zuwara, rebels say they now control vital coastal highway to Tunisia. Highway mostly deserted.
Rebels tell us Gaddafi loyalists still control town of Al Ajaylat close to vital coast highway. Rebels say going to fight for the town.
rebels advncing on al jamil, a gaddafi stronghold, ten kms south of zuwara in effort to make coastal highway safe.
Rebels say they've liberated Al Jamil
Al Jamil, town of several thousand, was controlld by G forces, threatening main highway betwn Tripoli & Tunisia border. Now in rebel hands.
In center of Al Jamil, euphoria. Rebels pumping rounds in the air celebrating their victory over Gaddafi forces.
At least one Gaddafi loyalist was rescued from angry mob by rebels and bundled off at speed
Back in Zuwara now. Rebel leaders here say also they have also taken key strategic loyalist holdout Al Ajaylat.
Rebel leaders also say town of Al Zaltan on highway to Tunisia still in hands of G forces. Small but safe detour needed to reach border.
Rebels firmly in control at Ras Ashdar crossing at Libya border w/Tunisia.No traffic crossing yet.
Border closed to civilian traffic, rebel cmmndrs hope to open next few days, get much needed supplies in to Tripoli
Rebels have control now of Zaltan, last remaining Gaddafi stronghold on highway to border. Just driving thru, jubilation on streets
Hopefully that means the rebels can now safely transport goods in from Tunisia, which will be a great relief to the population of Tripoli.
Gavin Lee of the BBC has been tweeting as well:
quote:One doctor at the Abu Salim hospital says many of 200 bodies discovered had been left for 5 days 'untouched and uncared for'
quote:MoD confirm British jets carried out guided bomb strikes on Friday on a brigade hq + helicopter site in #Tripoli, close to airport.
An RAF Tornado also destroyed Grad rocket launchers yesterday, which were being fired by #Gaddafi's forces, west of Ras Lanuf.
quote:The media spokesman for the NTC tells me the latest intel on Gaddafi suggests he's either in #Tripoli or at the Algerian border
The NTC spokesman also dismissed suggestions that the deposed Libyan leader has travelled to Sirte, the town of his birth.
On the theory that #Gaddafi could have moved from #Tripoli to Sirte, NTC's Shamsddine Ben Ali says "there's no way he's got in from there"
Colonel #Gaddafi's wife and daughter are likely to have crossed the border seeking asylum in Algeria acc to the NTC. quote:@libyaoutreach Yes, the NTC said several million gallons are being brought in by boat and should arrive in #Tripoli within 48 hrs.
4 million gallons of water will be docking into #Tripoli imminently to help with the severe water shortage, acc NTC
@Libyaoutreach Yes, the NTC say great man made river has been contaminated by #Gaddafi forces, unsure of the chemical used
"They (Gadaffi forces) tried to poison it" and "many people got sick" NTC spokesman on why they have shut off the water supply in #Tripoli
Technicians in #Tripoli now cleaning out the main water tanks + reviving the wells that were shut down due to contamination.
NTC's spokesman can't confirm what "poison" it was, that "chemical tests are ongoing" he adds there 'were many sickness cases" #Libya water
James Bay of AJE updated on the Tripoli situation
quote:LIBYA just spent day out in Tripoli. Our report soon on #AJE. Quieter in general, but water a big problem.
One journalist shot on thigh at Tripoli hotel TV live position. May have been from celebration gunfire.
quote:Normal life returning to #Tripoli. Kids posing with anti-aircraft guns, volunteers sweeping pavements and tacky shirts for sale
quote:Saw a uniformed policeman and traffic cop working with rebels on a checkpoint in #tripoli. Sign of normality returning.
More cars, shoppers and women on the streets of #tripoli today. And far less gunfire.
@FunGuerillaz @4Adam @ShababLibya I did not say Libyan rebels had executed anyone. I'm not sure where you got that from. Your mistake.
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Aug 27, 2011 19:01
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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The Tunsian-Libyan border crossing has just offically reopened, so now supplies can start flowing to Tripoli 8 hours away.
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Aug 28, 2011 12:47
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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By the sounds of it a lot of journalists are there today, so I'd expect to see more stories coming up soon. Meanwhile, here's a story about Gaddafi troops killing 53 people and burning their corpses:
http://i.imgur.com/vmqDi.jpg
Brown Moses fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Aug 28, 2011
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Aug 28, 2011 14:20
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- Adbot
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ADBOT LOVES YOU
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Apr 25, 2024 11:42
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- Brown Moses
- Feb 22, 2002
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Sorry, linked it now.
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Aug 28, 2011 15:48
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Aug 25, 2011 20:32
