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Endorph posted:Fire Emblem has none of these? Except maybe overleveled in FE8. Then again the only game you can even grind in is FE8. You can grind in any FE game that has an arena. I forget which one it was originally, but one of the FE games on the GBA had a couple levels with an arena building (and shop) so you could basically buy weapons/heal items as needed and power level people.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2011 21:32 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 05:12 |
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Evil Fluffy posted:So I need to hit level 700 before I can even start power leveling my guys? This kind of stuff is all way the gently caress after the game's story has long been beaten right? No. You can start power leveling them at 30 or 40. After you beat Corpse Eaters the first time there's a 3x3 grid of enrigas. Fight them until you can take them easier, and then boost them up to level 99, which mysteriously gives you more exp than if they were at level 300. Do that until you're at a decent level/have a lot of mana. The way to power level also requires you to go through one of my personal favorite Disagea stages: House of Ordeals 3. If you're at a similar level as the enemies, it's so incredibly perilous and long; it's really a lot of fun. The problem: If you over level, it's still incredibly long, but there's not a whole ton of excitement in it. It's an absolutely massive stage. I thought all the staged battles in 3 are some of the absolute best in an SRPG if your at a level is about where your enemy's is.
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| # ? Mar 5, 2011 22:56 |
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Evil Fluffy posted:You can grind in any FE game that has an arena. I forget which one it was originally, but one of the FE games on the GBA had a couple levels with an arena building (and shop) so you could basically buy weapons/heal items as needed and power level people. Anyway, the one on DS is eh. It's a remake of the very first game in the series and they did a pretty poor job upgrading it for modern tastes. It's still an okay game, but the best one to get into the series with would probably be FE7 for the GBA. (just called Fire Emblem in the US/EU)
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| # ? Mar 5, 2011 23:08 |
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Welp, since we are debating Fire Emblem, how's the Wii's Radiant Dawn?
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| # ? Mar 5, 2011 23:44 |
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Saoshyant posted:Welp, since we are debating Fire Emblem, how's the Wii's Radiant Dawn? The game it's a sequel to, Path of Radiance on the gamecube, is a great place to start though.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 00:36 |
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I adored that first ('seventh', whatever) Fire Emblem. Everything since has been a disappointment. There are some pretty cool features in some of the later ones; promotion choices, save points, re-classing in the DS game. Hefty amounts of bullshit too. The console games were alright, but really would have just been better off on the GBA/DS. The DS game abandoned the fantastic GBA sprites for blurry pre-rendered gunk, and seemingly rewarded you for sacrificing your guys (it gives you new characters when you 'running low'). gently caress that, I love my guys. I'd suggest trying that first/seventh one. It kicks off with a relatively short 'tutorial' campaign that should be a good first taste. It's also the only game where the player is an actual character; you can't fight but are the tactician, all the important princesses and princes are actually turning to you, asking you for advice, and then you command them in battle. I liked that. Really miss it. In fact, yeah, every map there is one character who, if you take them to battle, will stop to talk to you for a bit. That was awesome, why'd they get rid of it? Just a stupid little thing, but it really endeared the game to me. Anyway, that's my suggestion. Try FE7, maybe on a device with a save state function (though don't abuse it, just for emergencies). FE7 is a prequel to Japan-only FE6 so fan-translated FE6 makes a good sequel to FE7. Six also contains my favourite Fire Emblem character, all time, a young girl that turns into a chicken-dragon. Then maybe the console games (in order, of course), and/or the other GBA game, and then the DS game only if you really like the series or really hate yourself.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 02:10 |
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Jack MacAskill posted:The DS game abandoned the fantastic GBA sprites for blurry pre-rendered gunk, and seemingly rewarded you for sacrificing your guys (it gives you new characters when you 'running low'). gently caress that, I love my guys.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 02:12 |
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hosed up dude, hosed up. Remember when I first started playing Disgaea I would always spend the last few turns using my weakest characters to slaughter my strongest (don't even know if that gives XPs  ) but they always come back.And then BAM! Flonne's a flower and I've killed God. For a game that encourages using every underhanded trick you can to get ahead, they really frown on team killing. See also that video of Disgaea 2's worst ending, with the water-cooler-slaughter sound effect I am now so glad I never bothered to get myself.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 06:38 |
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Disgaea 2 seems to be taking itself way too seriously. Loaded a new file with Axel mode. Much better!
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 08:10 |
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Yeah, I really disliked that about 2. 3 also takes itself a bit too seriously at times but at least it has a few decent characters. 2 doesn't really have anything to redeem it storywise.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 09:25 |
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3 could get away with taking itself seriously occasionally because it was so drat surreal. 2 just seemed like generic fantasy RPG stuff most of the time.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 11:33 |
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Jack MacAskill posted:hosed up dude, hosed up. This is true of the entire series, and some outside of it like Makai Kingdom. You're meant to be different from what you fight/the other guys in that you keep your people alive. The value of life is sacrosanct, I guess. I'll say this, though. Killing in battle is frowned on. Kicking them out/destroying them via Dark Assembly isn't, though. EXP is 1/4 normal for killing allies. It didn't use to be so:in La Pucelle you didn't take penalties for team-killing at all, and levelling strategies revolved around this. I guess they objected. Bloodly fucked around with this message at Mar 6, 2011 around 15:54 |
| # ? Mar 6, 2011 15:51 |
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Killing your own guys is weird. I don't like denying in DotA either. Rented Disgaea 3 from the Canadian Gameflyesque a long time ago and recently bought it again, gonna head back to the postgame and enjoy all that DLC I paid for!
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 15:59 |
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WrightOfWay posted:Yeah, I really disliked that about 2. 3 also takes itself a bit too seriously at times but at least it has a few decent characters. 2 doesn't really have anything to redeem it storywise. I liked 2's story the most actually. 
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 16:19 |
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The only good reason to kill your dudes in a Disagea game is specifically to see the bad ending(s). And really, the multiple endings thing is kind of nice, but there's so few of them in these games that are good. I liked the Tink ending of Disagea 2, and the Beryl ending of 3, but can't remember much of the other ones, and I've gotten all of the ones in 1 and 2, and most of them in 3.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 16:37 |
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punchdaily posted:No. You can start power leveling them at 30 or 40. After you beat Corpse Eaters the first time there's a 3x3 grid of enrigas. Fight them until you can take them easier, and then boost them up to level 99, which mysteriously gives you more exp than if they were at level 300. Do that until you're at a decent level/have a lot of mana. This is seriously where it's at in grinding low levels. Initially, I think it's 4-3 because the whole map levels up the enemies each turn, then it's 7-2 I think for massive XP. You keep passing the stronger enemies bill on that level till you can handle them at level 99 for the level 300 xp glitch and rack up INSANE amounts of xp. Then it's off to House of Ordeals, or you can go for getting statisticians.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 17:03 |
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quote:The only good reason to kill your dudes in a Disagea game is specifically to see the bad ending(s). And really, the multiple endings thing is kind of nice, but there's so few of them in these games that are good. I liked the Tink ending of Disagea 2, and the Beryl ending of 3, but can't remember much of the other ones, and I've gotten all of the ones in 1 and 2, and most of them in 3. The D3 Almaz ending is pure gold.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 17:09 |
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You know what the best thing about playing the original Disgaea the first time was? I was sitting there going "Mmhmm, angels, demons, succession wars, classical JRPG plot parody, etc., etc., when BUCK ROGERS/FLASH GORDON OUT OF NOWHERE! I really think that Gordon (and the team) are my favorite part of this series.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 17:09 |
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El Generico posted:Killing your own guys is weird. I don't like denying in DotA either. Can't disagree. But the system only grants EXP on kill, not on hit. As if levelling healers wasn't enough of a pain-even if you just want to transfer spells, you still gotta get the levels to earn the spells in the first place. The more I think about Disgaea 1 and having to deal with that 'hump' I mentioned, the more annoyed I get and the more I avoid actually playing it. Can't buy new equip because you have no money. Can't win fights to get money because you have no equip/stats, and you don't get much anyway. Can't power what you have because you can't survive Item World, as 10 floors straight is more than can be handled. The issue grows the more characters you have/wish to grow.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 17:22 |
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Bloodly posted:Can't disagree. But the system only grants EXP on kill, not on hit. As if levelling healers wasn't enough of a pain-even if you just want to transfer spells, you still gotta get the levels to earn the spells in the first place. Depending on how cheap you wish to be, you can exploit the Hospital right after the tutorials. Have non-Prinny characters take 100 HP of damage, and you will get the first Muscle item. Enter and exit the hospital until you have one that has either rare or has a resident or two. Before you equip it, Laharl(or whoever) will have X Current/X Max health. Equip it, and he has X current/ X+14 max. Go heal that 14 difference then unequip and reequip the item to watch your amount healed skyrocket and the items pour in. This also works for the Dec counter (make a whole bunch of 4HP Good For Nothing mages by putting all penalties in HP, then toss the boss monster of the tutorial map into the base, slaughtering all of them.) and the SP counter(as above, but Orbs, not Muscles). If you are willing to sell some of the items you get along the way and spend close to two hours, you could enter Vyers Mansion the first time wearing a Testament.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 17:32 |
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Bloodly posted:Can't disagree. But the system only grants EXP on kill, not on hit. As if levelling healers wasn't enough of a pain-even if you just want to transfer spells, you still gotta get the levels to earn the spells in the first place. In item worlds you can 1-round clear every map in 3 using 4 characters and some well-placed throws. At least for the first 10 maps. I found that even when I was in the mid-teens, if I went in to an item world that was level 4-6 and cleared the rooms using the geo blocks, I would finish the place with enough money to buy half a dozen new pieces of gear and when I managed to clear an 11-20 item run it resulted in over 150k and a bunch of items, probably 4-5 of them being legendary/rare (only 2 were equipment though). Once over the initial money hump things got much smoother. I don't get what the point is for rare/legendary consumables. Higher effect/steal rate?
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 17:57 |
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Evil Fluffy posted:I don't get what the point is for rare/legendary consumables. Higher effect/steal rate? They can heal even more when you level them up 100 times? 
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 18:00 |
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Bloodly posted:The more I think about Disgaea 1 and having to deal with that 'hump' I mentioned, the more annoyed I get and the more I avoid actually playing it. Can't buy new equip because you have no money. Can't win fights to get money because you have no equip/stats, and you don't get much anyway. Can't power what you have because you can't survive Item World, as 10 floors straight is more than can be handled. The issue grows the more characters you have/wish to grow. What hump? I started playing Disgaea 1 as the first Disgaea i spent more than ten minutes with on the DS. 50 hours in i haven't ever been anywhere close to what you describe. You do know you can replay story maps how often you want? (Also use the Dark Assembly rank test fights to level dudes up at the start once you have semi-decent equip.) Evil Fluffy posted:I don't get what the point is for rare/legendary consumables. Higher effect/steal rate? They provide low level item worlds even when all your other gear is overpowered to hell. Mithaldu fucked around with this message at Mar 6, 2011 around 18:30 |
| # ? Mar 6, 2011 18:28 |
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Evil Fluffy posted:I don't get what the point is for rare/legendary consumables. Higher effect/steal rate? In the case of stealing hands, leveling them can be pretty useful because better HIT on the hand = better chance of stealing, but of course you have to spend time leveling every hand. As for the other consumables I don't see the point of leveling them but you could use the rares/legendaries as bribes. The senators (or whatever the D3 equivalent is) like items based on their rarities so having a couple extra rare throwaway items is nice.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 18:31 |
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Hey, we're talking about favorite SRPGs, am I allowed to talk about Phantasy Star Online: Episode 3: C.A.R.D. Revolution? Probably the best SRPG I've ever played, period. I long for another game like it. Sure, it was a card game, but it was actually a true blue SRPG. Kind of Magic the Gathering meets Shining Force. Incredible game, only reason it got bad rep was because of the game before it. The game deviated too far from what everyone actually wanted (another episode of PSO regular, which was an action RPG). It's got quite the cult following, honestly.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 19:41 |
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quote:You do know you can replay story maps how often you want? Yes. Doesn't help as I find money gains by default at this early point are pitiful. Sales of loot don't help, besides which half of it goes to the Assembly. It corrects itself but only very late, as I understand it. There's gotta be a better way than this scrounging for even one or two pieces of equip.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 20:48 |
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Edoraz posted:Hey, we're talking about favorite SRPGs, am I allowed to talk about Phantasy Star Online: Episode 3: C.A.R.D. Revolution? To this day, I'm still kinda bummed out that it never got a PC release. It would have been great as part of PSO: Blue Burst (which DID have another episode of content!), but I guess it's just not to be.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 20:53 |
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CaptainWinky posted:In the case of stealing hands, leveling them can be pretty useful because better HIT on the hand = better chance of stealing, but of course you have to spend time leveling every hand. As for the other consumables I don't see the point of leveling them but you could use the rares/legendaries as bribes. The senators (or whatever the D3 equivalent is) like items based on their rarities so having a couple extra rare throwaway items is nice. As far as I can tell the favorite thing that senators and class reps like to receive is cold steel through the sternum. I basically couldn't pass any laws in D3 until after I had already beaten the game, because I couldn't kill the legendary reps.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 21:07 |
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punchdaily posted:As far as I can tell the favorite thing that senators and class reps like to receive is cold steel through the sternum. I basically couldn't pass any laws in D3 until after I had already beaten the game, because I couldn't kill the legendary reps. If I'm passing things through force, you can bet I'm not trying to kill the strongest against me, I'm throwing them into reps that are strongly in favor to make my life far less of a headache.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 21:12 |
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Bloodly posted:Yes. Doesn't help as I find money gains by default at this early point are pitiful. Sales of loot don't help, besides which half of it goes to the Assembly. It corrects itself but only very late, as I understand it. I can't help but think that you must be doing something very wrong. At the VERY start my main cash source was abusing geo panel maps to boost up the bonus meter and get nice poo poo. Are you making sure to do that? Honestly, if you're suffering from too little cash AND too little firepower at the same time in Disgaea you're most likely just not being creative enough. Also, for item world: Keep in mind that you can just skip all nine levels by building ten unit high throw towers and only need to fight the item general on level 10. It means you miss out on the loot on level 1-9, but at least you get an extra emergency exit. Also don't try to item world your best items to start out. Start with something like a chewing gum to keep the difficulty low. As for leveling itself: Keep in mind you can beat down enemies to low HP, and then combine them to get a high level enemy that's still half-dead. Edit: Basically: Make some loving effort to actually break the drat game. The game wants you to break it! If you actually think about the possibilities at hand and aren't afraid to combine them in odd ways it'll roll over and present you its soft underbelly to rub. Mithaldu fucked around with this message at Mar 6, 2011 around 21:39 |
| # ? Mar 6, 2011 21:30 |
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Bloodly posted:This is true of the entire series, and some outside of it like Makai Kingdom. You're meant to be different from what you fight/the other guys in that you keep your people alive. The value of life is sacrosanct, I guess.   We're in the afterlife, they can take some damage for the greater good/my petty amusement.I remember playing Phantom Brave, and one day walking around talking to all my guys and suddenly none of them liked me and would tell me to gently caress off or hit me when I tried to speak with them.  Though in that instance it was less team-killing and more creating a massive army and nobody being satisfied with the little screen time they got.Pricks. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (and Final Fantasy Tactics ATwo Grimoire of the Rift) I would team kill like mad, always ending a fight with as few of my guys standing as possible. Mostly just including my guys in the AoE for spells, sometimes they had a flame cloak or something, sometimes not. Extra challenge, dude. But if, say, there's one enemy left on one side of the map, and two of my guys stranded on the other, you're drat right they're gonna spend the rest of their turns beating each other senseless. quote:Dark Assembly Maybe they changed that in the last two games, but the first two I've had them eating out of my hand for the bulk of the game. Candy, pop, and gum.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 21:32 |
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Jack MacAskill posted:Candy, pop, and gum. That still works in Disgaea 2, though it tends to do good attempts at throwing wrenches in your gears with elite senators who have ridiculous demands and gently caress with the other senators, or sleeping/drunk senators who're unbribable unless you wake/sober them up.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 21:36 |
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Evil Fluffy posted:I know I won't like the answer, but how long did this take you? Uhm...about 85 hours, i was playing on and off for a long long time, and spent quite a lot of time hunting weapon specialists and statisticians and then duping them. Seriously, Fencers and Guardians boost stats through the roof, i have no idea how i coped without them before, and even with them and fairly sizable levels i'm hosed for fighting LoC Uber Eringyi Baal. Defence of 46 million? Eep!
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 22:20 |
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You can almost go and just treat levels with lots of geopanels as puzzle levels which invite creative solution. The biggest thing is to always remember you can throw people around! What stat effects how far you can throw someone?
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 22:23 |
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Apocadall posted:You can almost go and just treat levels with lots of geopanels as puzzle levels which invite creative solution. The biggest thing is to always remember you can throw people around! What stat effects how far you can throw someone? Throw range is static and bound to the unit's class. (At least in D1&2, not sure about D3 right now)
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 22:25 |
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Mithaldu posted:That still works in Disgaea 2, though it tends to do good attempts at throwing wrenches in your gears with elite senators who have ridiculous demands and gently caress with the other senators, or sleeping/drunk senators who're unbribable unless you wake/sober them up. Good attempts until Adell becomes a Senator and you give more influence to Golems and Mothmen. Then it's pretty easy. Legendary senators can still gently caress you over, though. Tengan! 
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 22:35 |
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Mithaldu posted:I can't help but think that you must be doing something very wrong. At the VERY start my main cash source was abusing geo panel maps to boost up the bonus meter and get nice poo poo. Are you making sure to do that? I think every time I've tried to play D3 I had no idea what I was doing. I'd leave it a while and come back to it. Then just recently I got used to cheating with character movement to create as many combos as possible per round. It doesn't take too many combos to build up a decent amount of money from each fight, even without using geopanels/cubes. Undoing and redoing movement after combos completely changed the game for me.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 23:01 |
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HenryEx posted:Throw range is static and bound to the unit's class. You can use class world to get a bonus 2 throw on a character. I think you can also add it to weapons and armor, but I might be thinking of attack range. Having a character with 8 throw is super nice, though. Especially in class world itself.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 23:13 |
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projecthalaxy posted:Depending on how cheap you wish to be, you can exploit the Hospital right after the tutorials. Have non-Prinny characters take 100 HP of damage, and you will get the first Muscle item. Enter and exit the hospital until you have one that has either rare or has a resident or two. Before you equip it, Laharl(or whoever) will have X Current/X Max health. Equip it, and he has X current/ X+14 max. Go heal that 14 difference then unequip and reequip the item to watch your amount healed skyrocket and the items pour in. I won't miss bribing Senators in D1 and then leveling up to find triple level "Loathe" Senators taking their place. So much congressional bullshit in that game and you need to spank the game to even be able to pass SEB. D2 was so much better with a Kunoichi and lots of poisoned/sleeping Senators. gently caress those puppets.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 23:24 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 05:12 |
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Scalding Coffee posted:The Hospital in D1 gives plain stuff. In case plain means "non-rare" here: I am positively positive that D1 also hands out rares (no legendaries) at the hospital. I used that trick in every Disgaea so far.
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| # ? Mar 6, 2011 23:33 |
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