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Just finished Deadhouse Gates the other day and am around 200 pages into Memories of Ice. What a great series so far... DG was just a powerful rollercoaster of emotion and was a much stronger piece than GotM. I can definitely see how it's seen as the weakest of the series, although I'd love to re-read it once I figure out what the hell is going on. MoI's starting off very strong too as almost every page has been chock full of background plot exposition which up to this point has been staggeringly slow. At this point it really feels like I 'get' the universe, although considering Erikson's writing style and the fact that there's 7.9 books left I also feel woefully wrong.
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Aug 26, 2014 10:45
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You never "get" the universe. You'll have a reasonably clear picture by the end of the series... And then you read FoD and it'll turn it upside down.
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Aug 26, 2014 16:14
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Midway through House of Chains, can we get a spoiler free explanation of what the Kharkanas Trilogy is?
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Aug 26, 2014 20:19
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It takes place ten thousand or so years before the main series, and is about what exactly happened to split the Tiste into different races.
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Aug 26, 2014 20:37
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Rereading Crippled God made me kinda sad that a bunch of the "bad guys" seem to get downgraded in badassness after their first encounter. The Malazan Claw,the Hounds, the Army of the Whirlwind, the K'chain Nah'Ruk, the Forkrul Assail, the Tiste Liosan, and the Elient all seem to suffer from this.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:27
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amuayse posted:Rereading Crippled God made me kinda sad that a bunch of the "bad guys" seem to get downgraded in badassness after their first encounter. The Malazan Claw,the Hounds, the Army of the Whirlwind, the K'chain Nah'Ruk, the Forkrul Assail, the Tiste Liosan, and the Elient all seem to suffer from this. I don't really agree on any of that. They all have pretty epic opponents.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:35
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amuayse posted:Rereading Crippled God made me kinda sad that a bunch of the "bad guys" seem to get downgraded in badassness after their first encounter. The Malazan Claw,the Hounds, the Army of the Whirlwind, the K'chain Nah'Ruk, the Forkrul Assail, the Tiste Liosan, and the Elient all seem to suffer from this. Quibbles: The Claw was all but destroyed by Not Apsalar, it'll take a generation or two to rebuild. The Hounds are small beer compared to everything else unleashed plus Yedan Derryg out-metals Karsa and has a Hust sword. The Army of the Whirlwind is just a bunch of fanatics at that point, no great magical backing or anything. The Nah'ruk ran into a Malazan army, the Burned Tears, the Letherii and only ended up stopped by Icarium in a flying mountain with laser beams and an Azath House, c'mon. The Forkrul Assail were only nine, dispersed amongst their forces. Still, individually they are tough motherfuckers and required some accurate stabby and a god, all personal like, to defend against. The Liosan were pretty much always fanatical dickheads whose reach outstripped their grasp. The Elient are all involved in a massive, massive throw down between them all.
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Aug 27, 2014 01:39
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I mean the first time you usually see them, it's usually during or right after they killed a bunch of strong dudes singlehandedly or at least give someone with a high power level trouble. And then later in mass numbers they're reduced down to strong dude status. Like when Karsa wrestled a weaponless K'Chain Nah'ruk for a good dozen pages and then the Bonehunter army was able to briefly push back an armed (with laser rifles) and armored Nah'ruk army with grenades and heavies.
amuayse fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 01:42
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amuayse posted:I mean the first time you usually see them, it's usually during or right after they killed a bunch of strong dudes singlehandedly or at least give someone with a high power level trouble. And then later in mass numbers they're reduced down to strong dude status. Like when Karsa wrestled a weaponless K'Chain Nah'ruk for a good dozen pages and then the Bonehunter army was able to briefly push back an armed (with laser rifles) and armored Nah'ruk army with grenades and heavies. The Bonehunters managed to slow them, barely, with Quick Ben going nuclear option, a physical manifestation of Cotillion, whatever the gently caress that Stormrider guy was, and they didn't get defeated until the #1 badass of the Malazan universe showed up with a laser mountain(which they almost beat) along with a massive Che'Malle army. The bonehunter heavies basically ceased to exist and got literally eaten, and didn't really dent them. Say what you will about Erikson, but he seems to be fairly consistent on power levels. Though maybe I'm wrong on that.
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Aug 27, 2014 02:24
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Eh, maybe. Maybe it's just gradual power level creep or something since I didn't reread the books in the same order.
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Aug 27, 2014 02:36
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NmareBfly posted:It takes place ten thousand or so years before the main series, and is about what exactly happened to split the Tiste into different races. It's a at least 100,000 years before, and likely over 200,000 before the main series. Part I from the Prologue for MoI takes place 298,665 years before Burn's sleep, and the 33rd Jaghut War is taking place. Part II MoI Prologue takes place 119,736 years before Burn's Sleep (3 years after the fall of the Crippled God). I'm pretty sure in FoD the Ritual of Tellan hasn't occurred yet, so the Imass are not yet T'lan Imass (I can't remember for sure, been a while since I read it). In the MoI Prologue Part II, it's clearly stated that Draconus has not yet finished forging draginpur, and he's been forging it since the time of All Darkness. We also know from FoD that Krul had just created the Warrens (or Holds, whatever) by using his blood. Here's my theory on the realms regarding the Tiste, and how this all plays out: I think initially For a timeline reference, we know at the end of FoD that the "High King" has built a boat. I am assuming this High King is Kallor. It's also stated in one of the ICE books that Kallor was married (or was a lover) to a female Liosan. Kallor also states that he had an empire when the T'lan Imass were but children in one of the books (MoI I think). I also wouldn't put much stock in the Seven Cities First Empire being the actual first human empire. Does any of that make sense? Am I stating the obvious above, or am I way off the mark? e: Made some corrections to the first sentence in my theory above. I drive a BBW fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 02:57
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That seems pretty close. The ritual of Telann either just has or is just about to take place around FoD. I have minor differences in view regarding the speculative bits that I'll probably comment on when I'm at my laptop, but at a glance the facts seem about right.
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Aug 27, 2014 03:42
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amuayse posted:Eh, maybe. Maybe it's just gradual power level creep or something since I didn't reread the books in the same order. There's also one really weird exception to the case: the Liosan. When they first show up in HoC, they're pretty much comic relief and they only turn out to be a real threat in TCG (with a brief foreshadowing in TtH via hounds of light).
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Aug 27, 2014 17:07
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amuayse posted:Eh, maybe. Maybe it's just gradual power level creep or something since I didn't reread the books in the same order. I don't know, man. I think the explanations above were pretty spot on. Power levels don't fluctuate, but you do meet more powerful beings later on, and some entities intentionally downplay their power unless they have no other choice because they don't want to draw attention. anilEhilated posted:There's also one really weird exception to the case: the Liosan. When they first show up in HoC, they're pretty much comic relief and they only turn out to be a real threat in TCG (with a brief foreshadowing in TtH via hounds of light). The Liosan are nothing if not consistent. They are dogmatically overconfident to the point of blinding arrogance, and both their first appearance in HoC and their last in TCG are emblematic of this. The difference is that in the latter you finally see what they are capable of as a people, rather than isolated fanatical elements. Habibi fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 17:32
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Even they guy who the Liosan considered a god didn't really want to deal with them.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:06
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Ethiser posted:Even they guy who the Liosan considered a god didn't really want to deal with them. For a while there, the guy they considered their God was just an overgrown pet.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:54
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Who are you talking about? I'm thinking of Father Light's son and I thought he was just chilling in some warren. I could be misremembering.
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Aug 27, 2014 19:36
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Ethiser posted:Who are you talking about? I'm thinking of Father Light's son and I thought he was just chilling in some warren. I could be misremembering. Osseric/Osric/Osserc was like "gently caress y'all" and his son L'oric was letting a pet demon be their god until the Imass killed it out of spite.
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Aug 27, 2014 19:58
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Zeitgueist posted:
I can't believe I forgot about that. I remember finding that situation really funny when I was reading it.
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Aug 27, 2014 20:06
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Man, I can't believe I never knew about this series until now, since The Black Company was one of my favorite ever. I'm currently on Book 3 at the siege of Coral and Kallor just messed Whiskeyjack and Korlat up... and I don't hate Tayschrenn anymore. Book actually made me sad. It's weird also how I went from "gently caress the Empress!" to "Well she's not that bad..." and now finally I actually think she's okay. SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 20:15
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GreyPowerVan posted:Man, I can't believe I never knew about this series until now, since The Black Company was one of my favorite ever. I'm currently on Book 3 at the siege of Coral and Kallor just hosed Whiskeyjack and Korlat up... and I don't hate Tayschrenn anymore. Book actually made me sad. Yeah just wait till he makes Kallor seem human.
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Aug 27, 2014 20:27
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Habibi posted:Yeah just wait till he makes Kallor seem human. I already know all I need to know about that guy, I will never feel pity. Oh, and also the creepiest part of the series so far is that K'Chain matron... that sounds like the worst torture, I feel bad for Toc SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 20:28
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GreyPowerVan posted:I already know all I need to know about that guy, I will never feel pity.
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Aug 27, 2014 20:42
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Habibi posted:You are in for a treat. We're talking about the same Kallor right? Burned his entire empire to the ground out of spite Kallor?
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Aug 27, 2014 20:45
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GreyPowerVan posted:We're talking about the same Kallor right? Burned his entire empire to the ground out of spite Kallor? Yup. Sympathetic and badass.
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Aug 27, 2014 20:50
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GreyPowerVan posted:We're talking about the same Kallor right? Burned his entire empire to the ground out of spite Kallor?
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Aug 27, 2014 20:53
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amuayse posted:I mean the first time you usually see them, it's usually during or right after they killed a bunch of strong dudes singlehandedly or at least give someone with a high power level trouble. And then later in mass numbers they're reduced down to strong dude status. Like when Karsa wrestled a weaponless K'Chain Nah'ruk for a good dozen pages and then the Bonehunter army was able to briefly push back an armed (with laser rifles) and armored Nah'ruk army with grenades and heavies. Dust of Dreams spoilers: The way I remember it, the Short Tails have the scariest human army to ever exist, gods unveiling their full power, serious high mages going suicidal and a Matron that has doomed her entire race to turn them into a weapon that can defeat the Nahruk arrayed against them and all of this doesn't stop them. They're one of the most ridiculously powerful forces in the series.
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Aug 28, 2014 02:51
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I just started Dust of Dreams. I've gone from hating Kallor, to simply pitying him. What a wretched existence.
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Aug 28, 2014 13:54
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GreyPowerVan posted:I already know all I need to know about that guy, I will never feel pity. Kallor eventually comes to symbolize human civilization as a whole as the series goes on.
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Aug 28, 2014 15:23
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amuayse posted:Kallor eventually comes to symbolize human civilization as a whole as the series goes on. Good thing I hate most of the human civilizations then 
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Aug 28, 2014 15:37
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So I'm the only person who cheered - in my head - when (MoI) Kallor killed Whiskeyjack then?
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Aug 28, 2014 16:06
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rejutka posted:So I'm the only person who cheered - in my head - when (MoI) Kallor killed Whiskeyjack then? No. I never got the love Whiskeyjack gets and Kallor is a huge badass right from the start.
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Aug 28, 2014 16:33
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rejutka posted:So I'm the only person who cheered - in my head - when (MoI) Kallor killed Whiskeyjack then?
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Aug 28, 2014 19:24
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The Bridgeburners suffer the most from the in media res nature of the overarching novel. They're legendary by the time we get to know them, and I don't we ever learn the entirety of why they're so renowned. The Bonehunters, in contrast, are a group that we see grow in importance and who do legitimately impressive things on the page.
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Aug 28, 2014 20:58
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From reading the vague theories of some of the characters, are Grub and Sinn supposed to be the manifestation of the Chain of Dogs and the Siege of Y'ghatan respectively? Similar to how the Snake is the manifestation of the Worm of Autumn.
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Aug 29, 2014 15:06
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Yes although you can quibble the extent, moreso in Sinn's case.
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Aug 29, 2014 15:38
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Actually, Sinn was a human child who got possessed by the fire elemental at Y'Ghatan; remember, she had a brother. Grub, I always assumed to be pretty much war incarnate.
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Aug 29, 2014 17:18
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Meinberg posted:The Bridgeburners suffer the most from the in media res nature of the overarching novel. They're legendary by the time we get to know them, and I don't we ever learn the entirety of why they're so renowned. The Bonehunters, in contrast, are a group that we see grow in importance and who do legitimately impressive things on the page. I actually really like the Bridgeburners though, they're pretty hilarious with how incompetent they seem (until poo poo gets real, then they do work)
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Aug 29, 2014 17:30
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anilEhilated posted:Actually, Sinn was a human child who got possessed by the fire elemental at Y'Ghatan; remember, she had a brother. Grub, I always assumed to be pretty much war incarnate. Hence the quibble part. I really do not think it's all that clear cut.
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Aug 29, 2014 17:31
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anilEhilated posted:Actually, Sinn was a human child who got possessed by the fire elemental at Y'Ghatan; remember, she had a brother. Grub, I always assumed to be pretty much war incarnate. I don't think Sinn is a child exactly, probably more a teenager at least at the time of The Bonehunters. She met Khalam in Deadhouse Gates and was the mage trying to sabotage the siege against the Ashok Regiment in the cliff fortress. Also technically both Grub being a manifestation of the Chain of Dogs and Sinn being possessed of a fire elemental godling from Y'Ghatan are both just speculative conjecture by people in the world. Sinn could just be a "natural High Mage" who never unleashed her powers until she needed it at Y'Ghatan and Grub could just be an orphaned child from the Chain of Dogs who is on the path to ascension based on what he represents to the survivors and observers.
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Aug 29, 2014 17:52
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