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Xachariah posted:Reminded me of the whole damaged woman BDSM rape thing in Goodkind's objectivist magnus opus Sword of Truth. Speaking of authors that make ICE look good...
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Nov 22, 2014 18:02
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Yeah, that's ...not a very good list. If the comparison to loving Sword of Truth somehow missed the point. To be fair, that thing makes a lot of writers look better.
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Nov 22, 2014 18:12
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anilEhilated posted:Yeah, that's ...not a very good list. If the comparison to loving Sword of Truth somehow missed the point. Goodkind makes a lot of people look better. Some of them just happen to be writers.
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Nov 22, 2014 23:30
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So I finished off Reaper's Gale yesterday for the third time, and will do the remaining 3 books once I have read Willful Child and The Dark Defiles by Morgan. Reaper's Gale is pretty loving awesome and a great climax to the events in HoC, Bonehunters and MT. It is also pretty tragic in what happens to many characters. The Crippled God stops being an active participant after Reaper if I remember correctly? Trulls storyline is more of him as an observer rather than as a prime mover. He will however be the father of 2 important children, the one with Eres'al who will be the true ruler of Shadow and the second with Seren Pedac, who will also be important given what happens in Dust with the Errant Grub will be the First Sword of the Malazan Empire sometime in the future. On Icarium, the Errant remarks on him being the son of Gothos and that overgrown hag, implicating Kilmandaros and Karsa identifies him as part Toblakai, stopping Karsa from killing him in Letheras Beaks storyline is still great, but could have been even better. Beak is also a good example of how Erikson can take a non-central character, flesh him out and make a cohesive story of that character within the greater arc of the storyline.
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Nov 23, 2014 14:11
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I pretty much read that as Rhulad's sword being TCG's last active attempt to solve his situation; forge an empire, gather some pieces, get an army to Kolanse. After that fails and what Mael apparently does to him, he's pretty much doomed to wait for someone else to take the initiative.
anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Nov 23, 2014 |
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Nov 23, 2014 14:29
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anilEhilated posted:I pretty much read that as Rhulad's sword being TCG's last active attempt to solve his situation; forge an empire, gather some pieces, get an army to Kolanse. After that fails and what Mael apparently does to him, he's pretty much doomed to wait for someone else to take the initiative. Then the question is what Stonewielder is about, since the Crippled God is involved in that as well? And it is after Reaper?
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Nov 23, 2014 15:25
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ICE pulling plot threads out of his rear end would be my interpretation. Or you could argue that particular piece started its work long ago and is more or less independent.
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Nov 23, 2014 18:09
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Cardiac posted:On Icarium, the Errant remarks on him being the son of Gothos and that overgrown hag, implicating Kilmandaros and Karsa identifies him as part Toblakai, stopping Karsa from killing him in Letheras Well Kilmandaros being Icariums mother is controversial, partly because she is Errastas mother and that would make him and Icarium half-brothers and he'd be calling his own mother an overgrown hag. Not completely out of the realm of possibility though. Also she is more characterised as being the patron god of the Forkrul Assail and has multiple joints like them. She was also the mate of Grizzin Farl who was a half-Thel Akai Azathanai, the predecessor giant race of the Thelomen Tobalaki. I reckon she likely predates the Toblakai herself and wouldn't be characterised as one but that's just a guess. To me it's more likely that Icarium's mother was a female Toblakai that hasn't been introduced/is long dead but I could be wrong and it could just be Kilmandaros after all.
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Nov 23, 2014 18:27
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Xachariah posted:Well Kilmandaros being Icariums mother is controversial, partly because she is Errastas mother and that would make him and Icarium half-brothers and he'd be calling his own mother an overgrown hag. Not completely out of the realm of possibility though. Also she is more characterised as being the patron god of the Forkrul Assail and has multiple joints like them. Yeah, Gothos and Kilmandaros seems an unlikely match, to put it lightly. Fall of Light can't come fast enough.
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Nov 23, 2014 20:42
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How is Forge of Darkness? I have never been inclined to read ICE's books but I did read the entire series. I don't remember everything obviously but who does and I figure more Erikson would be good. Haven't really found anything like him, everything else feels YA in comparison. Hold that, Wolfe is incredible.
Hand Row fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Nov 24, 2014 |
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Nov 24, 2014 01:34
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It's amazing. Turns everything you thought you knew on its head and makes the wait for the other two books in the trilogy painful.
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Nov 24, 2014 01:45
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Forge is really good. I would rate it up there with Memories of Ice in terms of having a vivid and absorbing plot. In a lot of ways it's more readable than the main series, since the plot is a little more focused and settled on one location. It's definitely a setup book, but there's a lot of cool poo poo there to get excited about. There's a reason we're all so hyped about Fall of Light.
The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Nov 24, 2014 |
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Nov 24, 2014 01:47
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Yeah, Forge is great and much better than what I was expecting out of a series focused on the Tiste peoples.dishwasherlove posted:It's amazing. Turns everything you thought you knew on its head and makes the wait for the other two books in the trilogy painful. This too, loved trying to figure out and contextualize the shitloads of new and weird info that it provided.
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Nov 24, 2014 02:22
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Cardiac posted:Then the question is what Stonewielder is about, since the Crippled God is involved in that as well? Stonewielder and Blood and Bone both overlap the timeline of DoD/TCG and tie up a few loose ends from the Crippled God plot. I would recommend reading SW first, then B&B, but only after finishing the main Malazan arc. You could probably read SW before TCG, though- I don't recall any spoilers for the end of the Book of the Fallen.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:02
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Juaguocio posted:Stonewielder and Blood and Bone both overlap the timeline of DoD/TCG and tie up a few loose ends from the Crippled God plot. I would recommend reading SW first, then B&B, but only after finishing the main Malazan arc. I have read them, but haven't reread them due to ICE. So in the end of Stonewielder we see the reason for the Stormriders assaulting the Wall on Korel, they want to get to a piece of the Crippled God in order to cleanse it. The Stormguard get their powers from the Crippled God. So my question is whether SW is before TCG or after? Since SW is after Crimson Guard, it all have to be after Bonehunters. Which is also the last time we see anything of the Malazan Empire in the main series. Also, the motivations for the Crippled God to just remain in Korel I don't understand, considering what he does with the Edur and Letheras.
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Nov 24, 2014 07:21
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So I just charged through OST, B&B and Assail in the last month to catch up. My love/hate relationship with this series just became way more complex. I kind of wish somebody would just summarize all the ICE books somewhere so that at the appropriate points in your Erikson readthrough, you get the extra exposition. But I've already forgotten NoK, RotCG and Stonewielder, so I can't do it. In fact, I've already forgotten the ones I just read. Ugh. Bring me my Karsa trilogy.
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Nov 24, 2014 14:54
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Cardiac posted:On Icarium, the Errant remarks on him being the son of Gothos and that overgrown hag, implicating Kilmandaros and Karsa identifies him as part Toblakai, stopping Karsa from killing him in Letheras Cardiac posted:Yeah, Gothos and Kilmandaros seems an unlikely match, to put it lightly. Kilmandaros and anyone (even Farl) seems an unlikely match. Why not Gothos, who for most entities would also be an unlikely match? Cardiac posted:Then the question is what Stonewielder is about, since the Crippled God is involved in that as well? With regard to TCG's active efforts, his plan revolving around giving Rhulad the sword (which he then intended to go to Karsa) predated most of the series, given it was put into action in MT, and thus predates his bid to formalize the House of Chains within the Deck, and the scene where it's revealed to Quick Ben that he is poisoning Burn/the Warren, so it doesn't really seem to be his last effort. Just one among a string of many. I can't recall offhand - when does the conversation between ST and TCG take place wherein the former explains his intent to free the latter? It's shown in one of the latter books, but I want to say it occurs much earlier on. What I'm getting at is that it seems like TCG never stops his efforts, even when he is aware that forces are at work to try to free him. It appears to be his nature (due to his shattering, etc...). On the other hand, it makes me wonder how much of his plotting within the series was intended to work toward Shadowthrone's plan. eg: for a while I couldn't figure why the Unbound (the seven Imass who were the supposed gods of Karsa's tribe) seem to arbitrarily kill Heboric. Then it occurred to me that that needed to happen in order for Heboric to play his part in shifting TCG's chains to Korabas in the final resolution. Xachariah posted:Well Kilmandaros being Icariums mother is controversial, partly because she is Errastas mother and that would make him and Icarium half-brothers and he'd be calling his own mother an overgrown hag. Not completely out of the realm of possibility though. quote:She was also the mate of Grizzin Farl who was a half-Thel Akai Azathanai, the predecessor giant race of the Thelomen Tobalaki. I reckon she likely predates the Toblakai herself and wouldn't be characterised as one but that's just a guess. There doesn't seem to be much doubt that Azathanai predate most of the races in the world, as they are responsible for the creation of quite a number of them. Kilmandaros was [spoiler]the Elder God and presumably progenitor of the Forkrul, but she also shares physical qualities with the TTT races (mainly in her enormous size). If she had anything to do with the creation of the Toblakai (perhaps her and Grizzin Farl's partnership led exactly there, in fact), it's entirely possible that what Karsa perceived as a hint of Toblakai in Icarium's eyes was in fact more a hint of a common ancestor.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:02
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Cardiac posted:I have read them, but haven't reread them due to ICE. Stonewielder and Blood and Bone would have to take place before the finale of TCG because the Crippled God himself is teleporting Skinner and company all over the place to collect various chunks of himself, which he couldn't do if he had already hosed off. I don't think The Lady of Korel knew she was a piece of the Crippled God. Either way, she prioritized holding on the her fiefdom over contributing anything to his plan to free himself.
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Nov 24, 2014 20:08
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:So I just charged through OST, B&B and Assail in the last month to catch up. My love/hate relationship with this series just became way more complex. I kind of wish somebody would just summarize all the ICE books somewhere so that at the appropriate points in your Erikson readthrough, you get the extra exposition. But I've already forgotten NoK, RotCG and Stonewielder, so I can't do it. In fact, I've already forgotten the ones I just read. Ugh. I think it helps to think of Esslemont's books as the Star Tours of the Malazan world. They're more about the settings than any actual plot or character developments.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:29
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Yeah, they're basically really lovely travelogues. Hell, he manages to make Jacuruku and Assail boring, and those two were among the most hyped-up places in that world. I'd love to see the Jacuruku thaumaturges handled by Erikson.
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Nov 24, 2014 21:56
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anilEhilated posted:Yeah, they're basically really lovely travelogues. Hell, he manages to make Jacuruku and Assail boring, and those two were among the most hyped-up places in that world. I'd love to see the Jacuruku thaumaturges handled by Erikson. I thought he did fine with Jacuruku. I mean, granted, it would have been nice to have something better than fine, but I wouldn't compare it to Assail by any stretch. Thinking on it, the weirdest thing about Assail to me was that ICE took a bunch of things he had done before with some success - plotting, action, context, even character development - and failed miserably at all of them. With Jacuruku, at least for me, the boring parts tended to be those featuring the Crimson Guard, because ugggbhhhh, but I quite enjoyed the thaumaturge-in-training and the thaumaturge-mission-to-nowhere travelogs.  To the second part of your comment, I suppose it doesn't seem entirely outside the realm of possibility that we might see some thaumaturge action in the FoD sequels, timed as some of those events should be not far removed from the drawing down of the Crippled God.
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Nov 25, 2014 01:36
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Clark Nova posted:Stonewielder and Blood and Bone would have to take place before the finale of TCG because the Crippled God himself is teleporting Skinner and company all over the place to collect various chunks of himself, which he couldn't do if he had already hosed off. I don't think The Lady of Korel knew she was a piece of the Crippled God. Either way, she prioritized holding on the her fiefdom over contributing anything to his plan to free himself. I could be completely wrong, but I want to say that B&B and OST take place at roughly the same time (and Stonewielder immediately precedes BB) and occur around when Heboric's crazy powers shield Seven Cities (??) from asteroids or whatever, which has to be likes what, Bonehunters-ish?
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Nov 25, 2014 01:43
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B&B has to take place at the same time as TCG. The piece of the CG represented by Celeste tells Murk that the other pieces are departing Wu thanks to an event "far to the west," and then disappears to join them. Stonewielder is in this same time frame too, since we see Skinner and Co. steal the CG piece from the Stormwall in SW, then get the same scene from their perspective in B&B. It seems like the timelines of DoD/TCG, OST, SW and B&B all overlap to some degree.
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Nov 25, 2014 02:30
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I don't mind most of ICE's stuff. It isn't on the same level as Erikson by a mile but I just take it as fluff. Not bad, not good, but something to read and spend time on. I wonder though given their relationship and obvious differing levels of talent of Erikson ever sits ICE down and tells him to get his poo poo together. Or is it more like a bad audition on American Idol where you know their friends are just loving with them and telling them they can sing and have a chance.
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Nov 25, 2014 07:51
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Ugh, I've been slogging through ICE's stuff and I can say a lot of it isn't even as well-written or exciting as some of the Warhammer books. It just lacks the mystery and breadth of Erickson's works and just compacts it into boring self-contained scenarios that don't really add much to the setting.
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Nov 26, 2014 20:02
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Reading Willful Child while imagining Zapp Brannigan's voice made it epic. It's nice to see comedy by Erikson.
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Nov 26, 2014 21:55
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Kalas posted:Reading Willful Child while imagining Zapp Brannigan's voice made it epic. Every scene with Tehol and Bugg.
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Nov 27, 2014 17:12
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Habibi posted:Every scene with Tehol and Bugg. Well, to be fair, all of his books contain humorous elements. Which also is one of the great things about the series. Grimdark all the time kinda wears you out.
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Nov 28, 2014 21:05
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I picked up Willful Child on Friday and just got through it today. I really enjoyed it and would definitely recommend it, not just to Malazan fans either. It's pretty much all comedy from start to finish and has a very rapid narrative pace. The tone and a lot of the humor feel like a Bauchelain & Korbal Broach story, without all the overtones of dread Erikson puts in those. I never watched Star Trek but I appreciated the send-up to episodic sci-fi romps; there's an overarching plot but it's usually sidelined by whatever is happening in the moment. Captain Hadrian really pops off the page and he ended up being a deeper character than I initially gave him credit for. It was nice to see Erikson focus exclusively on one character's viewpoint and a smaller cast overall. It definitely was not Malazan in Space, it's his most accessible book to date imo and I think even a lot of people who couldn't get into MBotF would really like it.
The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 08:56
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I'm about halfway through and still waiting for him to "pop off the page". Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying Hadrian's hijinks immensely, but it all seems really shallow.
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Dec 4, 2014 17:26
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I'm about halfway through the Crippled God and goddamn, Yedan is a loving beast. Dragons? No problem, lemme just chop their goddamn heads off. Hounds of Light? Yup, gonna gently caress them up too. The Shake were boring as hell in the last book, but they are totally making up for it now. I'm so glad things are picking up...the first half was such a slog for some reason.
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Dec 5, 2014 08:26
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Yarrbossa posted:I'm about halfway through the Crippled God and goddamn, Yedan is a loving beast. Dragons? No problem, lemme just chop their goddamn heads off. Hounds of Light? Yup, gonna gently caress them up too. The Shake were boring as hell in the last book, but they are totally making up for it now. damnit you just made me re-read the last 1/2 of crippled god thank you, it made parts of FoD pop into better perspective for me
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Dec 5, 2014 20:42
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Yarrbossa posted:I'm about halfway through the Crippled God and goddamn, Yedan is a loving beast. Dragons? No problem, lemme just chop their goddamn heads off. Dragons are kind of shown as dumb in Toll the Hounds when [spoiler] Orfantal doesn't just grab Kallor with his talon's and fly really high then drop him and instead gets beheaded as a dragon
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Dec 6, 2014 00:07
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Yarrbossa posted:I'm about halfway through the Crippled God and goddamn, Yedan is a loving beast. Dragons? No problem, lemme just chop their goddamn heads off. Hounds of Light? Yup, gonna gently caress them up too. The Shake were boring as hell in the last book, but they are totally making up for it now. That is objectively the most badass event in the entire series. There are sequences I like more and characters I like way more but just in terms of accomplishment that stand trumps everything else. p.s. Jose, your spoiler didn't work.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:39
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Most of the dragons in Malazan seem to be barely sentient.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:46
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amuayse posted:Most of the dragons in Malazan seem to be barely sentient. Yeah, having chaotic blood leads to a certain...unpredictability. Hence Silchas Ruin is considered the coldest of the three brothers, having drunk deepest of Tiam's blood. So most draconian soletaken are just a wee bit...impulsive.
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Dec 6, 2014 05:58
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anilEhilated posted:I'm about halfway through and still waiting for him to "pop off the page". Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying Hadrian's hijinks immensely, but it all seems really shallow. I really enjoyed about half of that book and cringed my way through the other half. I definitely enjoyed it but I'd never recommend it to anybody who didn't already like Erikson.
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Dec 9, 2014 02:54
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I'm inclined to agree there. While there's thankfully some reason for the main character acting like he is, a lot of the situations are way too transparent as just punchlines. Thankfully, there's still some of the trademark Erikson sense of dread with the whole direction of the human race thing, but it's nothing special overall. Mind you, it's still funny and a good read, just that one'd expect more. That being said, I'd be all over a sequel, a lot of those situations read like Erikson wrestling with the setting, trying to find out what works as a joke and what doesn't. Still, the funniest book by Erikson remains Crack'd Pot Trail.
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Dec 9, 2014 08:55
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anilEhilated posted:Still, the funniest book by Erikson remains Crack'd Pot Trail. Revolvo is pretty funny too. All hail the octopii.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:02
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Re Tavore's inscrutability - My take on it is that she never bargains, blackmails or proffers because all she does is a quiet appeal to any intrinsic compassion any other character has. Essentially, you end up doing the right thing because it is the right thing and it comes from your own morals and ethics. To me, this makes her the biggest badass in the entire tale.
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Dec 15, 2014 01:17
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