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CraigK
Nov 4, 2008

SQUAWK


That one that the dude who broke DiMaggio's hit streak in 2026.

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Mornacale
Dec 19, 2007

n=y where
y=hope and n=folly,
prospects=lies, win=lose,

self=Pirates


Picard is a captain, but he also appreciates the law, so I'd say the Mariners.

CraigK
Nov 4, 2008

SQUAWK


I, for one, would like to congratulate the fine moderation staff of SAS who have to go through both the MLB and NFL threads going hilariously, horrendously off-topic every late February

RembrandtQEinstein
Jul 1, 2009

A GOD, A MESSIAH, AN ARCHANGEL, A KING, A PRINCE, AND AN ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE.


The broken bones posted:

This is about the only time I'll ever be able to post this in SAS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg_cwI1Xj4M

I was waiting for this.

plester1
Jul 9, 2004

I am NOT a merry man!

Gonna use this opportunity to mention that Take Me Out To The Holosuite is one of the better episodes of Star Trek.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYVSkOh3ZBM

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


plester1 posted:

Gonna use this opportunity to mention that Take Me Out To The Holosuite is one of the better episodes of Star Trek.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYVSkOh3ZBM

"Death to the opposition!"

I'm totally yelling this at a Reds/Cardinals game this year.

LordPants
Mar 5, 2011

Four more years boys, four more years.


Please, the best invented stat is STFD.

http://www.draysbay.com/2008/10/2/6...ur-does-not-tak

The joke being that the As beat the Rays one time last year with Balfour pitching and Draysbay ran an article about how the A's had a higher "STFD" (Sit the gently caress down) percentage and a whole bunch of bs made up statistics. It was funny. I guess you had to be there.

Also, thanks for explaining why weighted stats are really important guys.

Mornacale
Dec 19, 2007

n=y where
y=hope and n=folly,
prospects=lies, win=lose,

self=Pirates


LordPants posted:

Please, the best invented stat is STFD.

TOOTBLAN

adaz
Mar 7, 2009



Take me out to the holosuite also had the chewing gum infused with rum idea which I don't know why nobody has ever capitalized on.

Really though, on wOBA - what's like a good breakdown for it (like someone did earlier for OBP) as far as bad/good/elite/really elite/barry bonds

Dr. Kyle Farnsworth
Apr 23, 2004

"He's a great baker. He's Betty Crocker. He makes the best peanut butter cookies ever."

Buncha nerds ITT. Let's talk about RBIs instead.

stuart scott irl
Mar 9, 2007



adaz posted:

Take me out to the holosuite also had the chewing gum infused with rum idea which I don't know why nobody has ever capitalized on.

Really though, on wOBA - what's like a good breakdown for it (like someone did earlier for OBP) as far as bad/good/elite/really elite/barry bonds

It's scaled to match with OBP, so basically use that exact breakdown.

Here's a chart from 2010:

Mornacale
Dec 19, 2007

n=y where
y=hope and n=folly,
prospects=lies, win=lose,

self=Pirates


adaz posted:

Take me out to the holosuite also had the chewing gum infused with rum idea which I don't know why nobody has ever capitalized on.

Really though, on wOBA - what's like a good breakdown for it (like someone did earlier for OBP) as far as bad/good/elite/really elite/barry bonds

In 2011:
best wOBA: Jose Bautista, .441
good wOBA: Victor Martinez, .368
average wOBA: Chris Young, .330
bad wOBA: John Buck, .301
worst wOBA: Alex Rios, .266

As mentioned, wOBA is scaled to roughly the same range as OBP (which is why it's called weighted On Base Average).

Barry Bonds, career: .439
(He's actually tied for 10th in career wOBA, 1st is Babe Ruth with .510 )

ayn rand hand job
Sep 10, 2008

   'Cause she's so high
      High above me,
       she's so lovely
           
     - Everclear


That Ruth guy was kind of good at baseball wasn't he

Mahoning
Feb 3, 2007


Toffile posted:

That Ruth guy was kind of good at baseball wasn't he

Batting and pitching

Babe Ruth to me is the greatest baseball player of all time. I mean, gently caress.

LordPants
Mar 5, 2011

Four more years boys, four more years.


Ty Cobb is fifth, which is amazing considering he used no PEDs except pure hatred.

Grittybeard
Mar 29, 2010


LordPants posted:

Ty Cobb is fifth, which is amazing considering he used no PEDs except pure hatred.

Being white was kind of a PED back then. Or being black was so they banned them, whichever way you want to look at it.

Dr. Kyle Farnsworth
Apr 23, 2004

"He's a great baker. He's Betty Crocker. He makes the best peanut butter cookies ever."

Looked at Ruth's baseball reference page just to refresh myself.

In 1916, his ERA was 1.75 on 40 games started with 23 complete games and 9 shutouts over 323.2 IP. ERA+ of 158, 1.075 WHIP, 6.4 H/9, 0.0 HR/9, 3.3 BB/9, 4.7 K/9. His WAR as a pitcher was 7.4.

In 1917, his ERA was 2.01 on 38 games started with 35 complete games and 6 shutouts on 326.1IP. ERA+ of 128, WHIP of 1.079, H/9 of 6.7, 0.1 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 3.5 K/9. His WAR as a pitcher was 5.8.

In 1916, he made 150 PA with 136 AB. AVG was .272, OBP of .322, SLG of .419. 3HR and 15 RBI, if you care about such things. His WAR was 1.6 as a batter.

In 1917, he made 142 PA in 123 AB. AVG was .325, OBP of .385, SLG of .472. 2 HR and 12 RBI if you care about such things. His WAR was 2.0 as a batter.

And that's before he became a really good hitter.

Dr. Kyle Farnsworth fucked around with this message at Feb 25, 2012 around 04:27

Twat McTwatterson
May 31, 2011


do we have estimations of how hard, say, babe ruth threw? or pitchers of that era in general? there shouldn't be any reason that speeds were not the same as the modern era, right? physiologically it's exactly the same.

Badfinger
Dec 16, 2004

Timeouts?!

We'll take care of that.


Mornacale posted:

TOOTBLAN

GRIT is the most comprehensive of baseball statistics.

http://www.flotsam-media.com/2007/1...ngiblizing.html

CraigK
Nov 4, 2008

SQUAWK


Twat McTwatterson posted:

do we have estimations of how hard, say, babe ruth threw? or pitchers of that era in general? there shouldn't be any reason that speeds were not the same as the modern era, right? physiologically it's exactly the same.

Today's guys throw a bit harder for their max velocities for today because today's ace major-league pitchers have been refining their technique to ball-hurling since about middle school, they work out in the exercise rooms today, and now every team past high school baseball has a nutritionist or the like on hand to train their players further.

CraigK
Nov 4, 2008

SQUAWK


But yeah, the average fastball speed on your average major league starter has risen, but dudes like Walter Johnson, for example, definitely threw mid-90's at a minimum

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

my strange heroes lead me on
but when i get there they'll be gone

Twat McTwatterson posted:

do we have estimations of how hard, say, babe ruth threw? or pitchers of that era in general? there shouldn't be any reason that speeds were not the same as the modern era, right? physiologically it's exactly the same.

I doubt that the average speeds of pitchers back then were equal to what they were now, not only because of training, diet and so forth but also because they were expected to throw complete games all the time. Big Train's fastball was recorded at around 91 miles per hour (in a munitions lab, so in a real game was probably slightly different) and he was pretty much unmatched in his day.

edit: well drat.

Dr. Kyle Farnsworth
Apr 23, 2004

"He's a great baker. He's Betty Crocker. He makes the best peanut butter cookies ever."

Big Train was the "It sounded high" guy, wasn't he?

JediGandalf
Sep 3, 2004

All your base, now belongs to me.


So I'm reading Baseball Prospectus 2012 team-by-team (on the White Sox--the Orioles are just downright depressing and the Cubs might actually have a small glimmer of hope see: Castro, Starlin and uhh...Brett Jackson!) and I want to know what you guys think of True Average and FRAA as far as they are good metrics to look at or are they RBI-quality stats?

stuart scott irl
Mar 9, 2007



True Average is fine, it's pretty much their version of wOBA, although I think it also includes baserunning contributions. FRAA is as good as any other defensive metric, as far as I know. Which is to say, it has a lot of issues and shouldn't be trusted in small samples.

Crion
Sep 30, 2004
baseball.

JediGandalf posted:

So I'm reading Baseball Prospectus 2012 team-by-team (on the White Sox--the Orioles are just downright depressing and the Cubs might actually have a small glimmer of hope see: Castro, Starlin and uhh...Brett Jackson!) and I want to know what you guys think of True Average and FRAA as far as they are good metrics to look at or are they RBI-quality stats?

I'm still getting used to TAv but yeah, it's BP's wOBA with two caveats: 1) it includes baserunning contributions and 2) it's scaled to batting average, not OBP. Meaning TAv's league-average is .260 and a Solid Good Player hits .300. For example: Jose Bautista had a TAv last year of .370, TCQ had one of .301, and Chone Figgins TAv'd .199.

FRAA is mostly comparable to Baseball Info Solutions's RAA stat, not UZR or RZR or that family of defensive stats; it's a value metric of runs saved/earned and it is NOT positionally adjusted. You can't compare, for example, Albert Pujols's consistently otherworldly FRAA at 1B with a shortstop's average FRAA and conclude Pujols was objectively more valuable at first. There's a positional adjustment value that's determined per year and aggregates per defensive chance that combines with FRAA to get that sort of value. You can, however, compare aggregate infield FRAAs, let's say, because the denominators end up being the same (at least our stat department assures me this is so). I like it best of all the defensive stats, but I might be a bit biased, and not just because it clearly shows that Derek Jeter is the worst defender of all time.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

my strange heroes lead me on
but when i get there they'll be gone

Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:

Big Train was the "It sounded high" guy, wasn't he?

"I didn‘t see the pitch," a batter was supposed to have said after facing fastball pitcher Walter Johnson, "but it sounded high."

Not sure who said that. Cobb is quoted as saying "His [Walter Johnson's] fastball looked about the size of a watermelon seed and it hissed at you as it passed."

Guy had a funky delivery too, looked like he was just casually slinging it sidearm.

PotatoJudge
May 22, 2004

Tell me about the rabbits, George

Mozi posted:

"I didn‘t see the pitch," a batter was supposed to have said after facing fastball pitcher Walter Johnson, "but it sounded high."

Not sure who said that. Cobb is quoted as saying "His [Walter Johnson's] fastball looked about the size of a watermelon seed and it hissed at you as it passed."

Guy had a funky delivery too, looked like he was just casually slinging it sidearm.

Here's Johnson throwing some warm up tosses. He did throw from a sidearm slot and didn't have much of a stride. The ball just exploded out of his hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imwUHeuVqME

Best wind up and delivery? Juan Marichal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBU9JHjnHdU

Scott Gomez Addams
Feb 10, 2008


Yeah, that's the thing- pitching mechanics were so funky back then that I have no doubt Big Train could throw 100 if trained in today's environment. As mentioned, it's really the weight training and modern coaching that makes all the difference.

LordPants
Mar 5, 2011

Four more years boys, four more years.


I got the Hardball Times 2012 Annual on my kindle, but I really want a couple of real paper books to leaf through on the john/while watching the games.

I was thinking Baseball Prospectus 2012 and the Bill James 2012 handbook. Any thoughts/suggestions?

Groucho Marxist
Dec 9, 2005

Here stands baseball's perfect warrior.

Here stands baseball's perfect knight.


Baseball America 2012 Prospect Handbook

Crion
Sep 30, 2004
baseball.

LordPants posted:

I got the Hardball Times 2012 Annual on my kindle, but I really want a couple of real paper books to leaf through on the john/while watching the games.

I was thinking Baseball Prospectus 2012 and the Bill James 2012 handbook. Any thoughts/suggestions?

I think BP2012 is pretty good...but I write for BP.

CraigK
Nov 4, 2008

SQUAWK


Yeah, the Baseball Prospectus books have gotten noticably worse in the past few years (like being riddled with spelling and grammatical errors) but even at its worst it's still much more than the $14.97 you'll pay for it

It's just the difference between "loving awesome" and "well above-average"

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

Well I had to phone his friend to state my case, and say he's lost control again.

And he showed up all the errors and mistakes, and said I've lost control again.

Groucho Marxist posted:

Baseball America 2012 Prospect Handbook

Indispensable for when a trade happens and you go "Agghhh who are these guys".

BIZORT
Jan 24, 2003



Are the Dick Hayhurst books any good?

Dr. Kyle Farnsworth
Apr 23, 2004

"He's a great baker. He's Betty Crocker. He makes the best peanut butter cookies ever."

I really enjoyed Bullpen Gospels, haven't gotten to the other ones yet.

Be forewarned, he's a pretty straight-shooter, there's no mythologizing or "for love of the game" bullshit. It's not Ball Four but it's also not mythmaking.

Pumpkin McPastry
Mar 8, 2004

What else do I have to do to impress you people?


CraigK posted:

Yeah, the Baseball Prospectus books have gotten noticably worse in the past few years (like being riddled with spelling and grammatical errors) but even at its worst it's still much more than the $14.97 you'll pay for it

It's just the difference between "loving awesome" and "well above-average"

It's been interesting to watch BP's transitional years. I think it's back on the upswing from a low a few years ago where the PECOTA numbers were just way off on everything and all of the write-ups were just, "Last season he did this and the team hopes he does better than that"

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011



I want to make a concerted effort to follow baseball this year. I live in Richmond so I'm lucky enough to have a large deal of my team's games on TV, but they're terrible and there is zero hope of them being not terrible. Do TBS/ESPN typically have good schedules for games, or am I better off just trying to stream things that pique my interest?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



If your team is the Natinals they may not be totally terrible this year.

If your team is the Orioles I am sorry buddy.

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Hollerin
May 23, 2008


The Richmond Flying Squirrels?

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