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sweets posted:
It's hard to believe let alone remember just how big of a prospect he was coming up. He started off in the top 100 out of high school and reached No. 14 on BA's list two years later (at age 21!) before being called up. A lot of other players have been called up that early and a good portion of them went on to become perennial all-stars and even some hall of famers. gently caress, man. I would've been pretty drat excited to see him play too.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 07:25 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 09:43 |
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We hate Jeff Francoeur not because sportswriters once hyped Jeff Francoeur, but because they still do. There are lots of terrible baseball players, but only a few that people so stridently and repeatedly claim are actually good.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 07:43 |
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Chilly McFreeze posted:The 2003 Tigers (43-119) had a total BB-Ref WAR of about -4, or a Fangraphs WAR of -0.6. So bizarre that Ramon's WAR was that much worse than Bonderman or Maroth that year. Hell, Maroth lost 21 games and still had a positive WAR
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 11:20 |
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A drat FOG posted:Maybe theres some confusion here but how is mediocre different from average. thats what mediocre means Mediocre means "bad" now too. It also means "average". It makes me angry as well. Usually you can figure out from context what people mean.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 12:24 |
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The Braves offered McCann and Francoeur the same contract extension around the same time. McCann accepted it because he is awesome, but Frenchy decided he was worth way more and held out. It's really the only time in his career that his ego helped his team.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 14:23 |
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euphronius posted:Mediocre means "bad" now too. It also means "average". It makes me angry as well. Usually you can figure out from context what people mean. Oh well I'm all for language evolving but it has "medio" right in the word
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 16:32 |
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A drat FOG posted:Oh well I'm all for language evolving but it has "medio" right in the word I used to work with a dude who would argue vehemently that 'decimate' should only ever mean 'reduce by one in ten'. It's got deci right there but, really?
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 16:47 |
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I think that's the absolute technical definition of the word but the only people that care about that are the same people who freak out over "couldn't care less"/"could care less"
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 16:52 |
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Language change owns, death to prescription.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 17:13 |
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Bob Shabazz posted:Language change owns, death to prescription. Descriptivism > prescriptivism. 
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 17:22 |
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Yeah but I wasn't saying it can't mean bad, just that it was weird for that dude to be like "why are you calling an average person mediocre" as if that isn't an acceptable meaning let alone the original one Anyway I am truly sorry about this autistic derail
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 17:28 |
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bad dog
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 17:32 |
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stuart scott irl posted:bad dog Disappointed in the lack of dogworld-related baseball questions itt.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 17:34 |
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A drat FOG posted:Maybe theres some confusion here but how is mediocre different from average. thats what mediocre means Because someone who is "League average" is actually a good player. League average isn't the mean of all player values, it has a representative value. For example, a daschund is a league average dog even though it is in the top third of dogs.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 17:54 |
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Badfinger posted:Because someone who is "League average" is actually a good player. League average isn't the mean of all player values, it has a representative value. Oh, I guess I see what you're saying, though I would still consider league average mediocre by definition unless you're opening up anyone who's played a single game in the majors for comparison. semantics etc etc
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 17:58 |
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Not gonna get into all this average vs mediocre stuff (though prescriptivism owns, descriptivism sux), but I wanted to address alpha_destroy's "question" more fully:alpha_destroy posted:Ok, thanks for the info about WAR. I never knew how much was average. I guess I assumed 0.0 was. Oops. WAR (and anything else with "replacement" in it) measures performance compared to a hypothetical "replacement" player. A replacement player is defined as a player which pretty much any team could acquire from its minor leagues or the waiver wire or the free agent pool essentially at will and for minimum cost. It's basically a better baseline to try to quantify a player's value to a team than a hypothetical .000/.000/.000 player, since every team could fire their entire roster and still have better players than that, and also better than comparing to league average, because not all teams have access to league-average alternatives at every position (in fact, most do not). Anyway, since practically every Major League player is better than a AAA call-up, the ML average WAR is greater than 0.0.
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| # ? Jul 21, 2011 18:08 |
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Ok here is a question. I have seen several games where you have a man on first. The batter hits a ball to second. 2b catches it and it's a double play. I understand the man on first has to go to 2nd on a hit, but when 2b catches why can't he scoot back to first?
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 03:30 |
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Why can't the Mariners win  ?
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 03:32 |
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jassi007 posted:Ok here is a question. I have seen several games where you have a man on first. The batter hits a ball to second. 2b catches it and it's a double play. I understand the man on first has to go to 2nd on a hit, but when 2b catches why can't he scoot back to first?
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 03:36 |
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jassi007 posted:Ok here is a question. I have seen several games where you have a man on first. The batter hits a ball to second. 2b catches it and it's a double play. I understand the man on first has to go to 2nd on a hit, but when 2b catches why can't he scoot back to first? If he's fielding a grounder, the runner has to advance. If he stays at first base, the batter will be called out upon reaching first base since no two batters can occupy a base simultaneously. If he's catching a line drive, he must return to first base if he was caught off-base. Pungry posted:Why can't the Mariners win Generally in a game of baseball, the team that scores the most runs in a game shall be declared the victor, unless a team forfeits. The Mariners haven't been very good at that. Toffile fucked around with this message at Jul 26, 2011 around 03:39 |
| # ? Jul 26, 2011 03:36 |
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Nate RFB posted:Do you mean hits the ball on a line to the 2B? If so, the baserunners have to return to their bases and tag up or they will be out as well if the ball is thrown to that base before they get back. If you mean a groundout, then in your scenario the 2B/SS would get the force out at second base (the runner on first has to go to second), and then they would throw to first base before the hitter can get to the bag to complete the double play. In that scenario, the two outs would be two force outs. The runner can't scoot back to first because they would already be out via the force out. To clarify it is a line drive so the catch is one out, but 2b doesn't throw to first they just say double play. The caught ball gets the batter out but why doesn't the second baseman have to throw to first to get the runner out?
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 03:45 |
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jassi007 posted:To clarify it is a line drive so the catch is one out, but 2b doesn't throw to first they just say double play. The caught ball gets the batter out but why doesn't the second baseman have to throw to first to get the runner out? If you remember a certain game that it happened in, I could take a look at it. Toffile posted:If he's fielding a grounder, the runner has to advance. If he stays at first base, the batter will be called out upon reaching first base since no two batters can occupy a base simultaneously. Actually, the runner who was at 1st would be out. The batter running to first would be entitled to the base once he gets there. Infidel Castro fucked around with this message at Jul 26, 2011 around 03:54 |
| # ? Jul 26, 2011 03:49 |
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Nachtsturm posted:Was there a runner on 2nd as well? The second baseman may have touched 2nd and doubled off that runner instead of throwing to 1st. I think I didn't understand what I saw correctly. Let me ask this, would there be a situation where a line drive to second the runner on first is going the throw to first is assumed and the runner just retires?
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:00 |
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jassi007 posted:I think I didn't understand what I saw correctly. Let me ask this, would there be a situation where a line drive to second the runner on first is going the throw to first is assumed and the runner just retires? If I understood the question right, no. A defensive player with the ball has to physically touch 1st base in that case. This video demonstrates it happening (the throw goes to 2nd, but it's the same concept). http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c...py_17277203&v=3 Infidel Castro fucked around with this message at Jul 26, 2011 around 04:09 |
| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:04 |
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Nachtsturm posted:Was there a runner on 2nd as well? The second baseman may have touched 2nd and doubled off that runner instead of throwing to 1st. Yeah, I just took a look again, and you'd be right. jassi007 posted:I think I didn't understand what I saw correctly. Let me ask this, would there be a situation where a line drive to second the runner on first is going the throw to first is assumed and the runner just retires? In order to catch a runner off-base and make him out, the ball must get to that base. You could possibly tag him, but in your scenario, you only need to touch the base to get him out.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:09 |
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Nachtsturm posted:If I understood the question right, no. A defensive player with the ball has to physically touch 1st base in that case. Ok that's good example. The runner on second can't go to third. His only option is to tag up at second ?
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:12 |
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jassi007 posted:Ok that's good example. The runner on second can't go to third. His only option is to tag up at second ? MLB Rulebook - Rule 7.08 posted:A runner is out when... Toffile fucked around with this message at Jul 26, 2011 around 04:18 |
| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:14 |
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jassi007 posted:Ok that's good example. The runner on second can't go to third. His only option is to tag up at second ? In that example, yes. On any ball that's caught before it hits the ground, each runner must make contact with the base he occupies after the ball is caught (better known as tagging) before he can advance to the next base (tagging up). If a defensive player with the ball touches the base before the runner tags his base, the runner is out. Now for instance let's say someone hit a long flyout to the outfield. A runner could tag up after the catch and advance to the next base. If a player scores in this manner, it's known as a sacrifice fly. Infidel Castro fucked around with this message at Jul 26, 2011 around 04:17 |
| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:15 |
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I think I got it. So second baseman could catch a line drive if a runner was on second and took off for third the second baseman would have an unassisted double play right ? That may be what I saw.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:18 |
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jassi007 posted:I think I got it. So second baseman could catch a line drive if a runner was on second and took off for third the second baseman would have an unassisted double play right ? That may be what I saw. Yes. Unassisted double plays will almost always occur in this fashion. If the shortstop or second baseman manage to tag the runner coming from first, he'll get the rarest of fielding feats, an unassisted triple play.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:19 |
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jassi007 posted:I think I got it. So second baseman could catch a line drive if a runner was on second and took off for third the second baseman would have an unassisted double play right ? That may be what I saw. If the second baseman runs to the bag himself, it's an unassisted double play, yes.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:20 |
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jassi, it's also possible that the play in question involved the runner trying to steal and hence being so far from first that the throw is essentially an afterthought. Hence, the announcers call a double play just about as soon as the catch is made; you may have just missed the throw because it's relatively unimportant.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:22 |
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Mornacale posted:jassi, it's also possible that the play in question involved the runner trying to steal and hence being so far from first that the throw is essentially an afterthought. Hence, the announcers call a double play just about as soon as the catch is made; you may have just missed the throw because it's relatively unimportant. Yeah, this could be a possibility as well. Sometimes a runner is stealing or going on contact, and makes it around second by the time the ball is caught. Unless the ball somehow gets thrown past the first baseman, most announcers will call it a DP because the runner is dead to rights.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:31 |
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Not really a noobie question: I'm a Giants fan and am constantly impressed with certain attributes of the organization. They are incredibly well marketed and do an amazing job of integrating old time players into the here and now. I know they have a natural advantage in Willie Mays. He is a mainstay around the locker room and during Spring Training. Anyway, my question is are there other teams that equal the Giants in these ways? I am sure they all do it to some extent but I know the Padres, Angels and Dodgers are not on the same level. I wonder if the Yankees, Phillies or Red Sox do an equal job.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:48 |
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just from the perspective of a more or less attentive fan of a team that can NOT make the cut, i would put both the yankees and red sox above the giants in that respect, but not the phillies. the giants might be #3 though. the cubs do a LOT with the wrigley mystique but now that santo's dead there's not a huge omnipresent link with their past players that comes to immediate mind. honestly, most teams with a history are good at displaying it in this sport, as the sport as a whole is quite good with history, that being its main competitive advantage over more exciting, younger sports. I'm impressed by the giants' PR aspect, though. edit: for example, the braves celebrated their 10,000th win in franchise history with a special mowing job in the outfield and other stuff, and they aren't even the first team to hit 10,000 (that'd be y'all, i'm pretty sure). sadly, the phillies didn't get too into being the first team to 10,000 losses a few years ago. i don't think other sports really do much of that
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:51 |
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Bill Mazeroski is going to be doing promo appearances for the Pirates 20 years after he's dead. This is also the first time in a long time that the most popular jerseys at Pirates games don't say Stargell or Clemente.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:54 |
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the nats did a jumbotron retrospective on the second incarnation of the washington senators between a few different innings in a recent game i went to, and the concourses have a ton of history stuff about washington baseball (one world series win, two other AL pennants, a few random managers of the year and a few mvp's and such, a decent crop of hall of famers, and the greatest pitcher to ever play the sport, about sums it up). even we try to do the history thing. there's a bit of a grudging reference to the expos too; their hall of famers have their names up with the 'spos logo prominently displayed right under the press box
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 04:56 |
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oystertoadfish posted:NY & BOS Can you give some detail why you feel they do it better? I don't mean mowing grass and jumbotron retrospectives. I mean marketing, ie: tv and radio spots and other media on the streets. In terms of history I mean things like bringing back players and keeping them part of the team. Keeping the tie to the past. That sort of thing.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 05:07 |
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Waltzing Along posted:Not really a noobie question: I don't want to sound biased here, but the Minnesota Twins are right up there as well. Maybe not Yankees or Red Sox level, but for the team's "age" (The Twins really only focus on their time after they moved from Washington), they do a phenominal job. Harmon Killebrew was the face of the Twins for a long, long time. Even up until his death, he remained close to the team. He mentored young players, went to spring training, and was even their TV commentator for a while. Watching Twins TV broadcasts or listening to the radio feed, they'll have tons of alumni come on over the course of a season. Hell, everyone on the regular broadcasts aside from the play-by-play guys (Dick Bremer on TV and Jon Gordon on radio) are former Twins players. I do wish they'd warm up to their history as the Washington Senators though. Granted, they sucked for a long time, but that history includes another World Series championship, a bunch of Hall-of-Famers like Sam Rice and Bucky Harris, and the best pitcher to ever play the game in Walter Johnson. This probably will never happen though. I'll just have to deal with the odd looks when I try to correct people that say the Twins have two world series titles.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 05:09 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 09:43 |
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The Pirates do a ton of history stuff, mostly because until this season they had no present.
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| # ? Jul 26, 2011 05:10 |
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