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Sangori posted:That was overly wordy! I hope this is helpful. It was really helpful, thanks.
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Mar 30, 2011 23:27
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What do people think about serialized novels, Dickens style? 50 punchy pages a week/fortnight, collected digest versions at the end of the story, or ever 6 months or something like that? Would people pay 99˘ for each week for a weekly episode? e: if you think this is a workable idea, what do you think the pages/time ratio would need to be? 50 pages a week? 50 pages a month? Is more often going to be better than more pages a shot? Arnold of Soissons fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 16:34
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Arnold of Soissons posted:What do people think about serialized novels, Dickens style? 50 punchy pages a week/fortnight, collected digest versions at the end of the story, or ever 6 months or something like that? Would people pay 99˘ for each week for a weekly episode? I think it's absolutely workable, and $.99 is the right price for it, though you're in novella-length rather than short story-length at 50 pages. On the plus side, you're given the option when you self-publish to check a little box that says 'Part of a series.' As for how often to release, I'm not quite sure. Depends a bit on the genre. 'Genre fiction' itself is harder to lock down an audience for, I've noticed, unless it's some vampirey-romancy type stuff. For some reason, I find the idea of fifty pages every two weeks very attractive. Provided you can churn something out at that rate. And that's only to ensure that you give people those two weeks to find and read your stuff. More often isn't necessarily better, but I'm rather new at this endeavor, so hopefully someone else will chime in. All the same, I say go for it. FingerbangMisfire fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 18:18
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Arnold of Soissons posted:What do people think about serialized novels, Dickens style? 50 punchy pages a week/fortnight, collected digest versions at the end of the story, or ever 6 months or something like that? Would people pay 99˘ for each week for a weekly episode? I've seen that done with a comic book, except they gave out the first one for free and charged $0.99 for each one after that. http://www.amazon.com/Tumor-Chapter-1-ebook/dp/B002J256D8 It seems to have worked out for the creators. http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=22446 Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 19:07
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FingerbangMisfire posted:For some reason, I find the idea of fifty pages every two weeks very attractive. Provided you can churn something out at that rate. Once I said those numbers out-loud they seemed pretty strong to me, too. I can come up with barely that much unedited, so edited it will be a good bit less. I'll need to keep a month or two buffer between what's published and what I've written. Sporadic posted:I've seen that done with a comic book, except they gave out the first one for free and charged $0.99 for each one after that. This idea keeps sounding better and better! I'm going to read what I've written so far and see what I can do to get it into a serial format. Dickens only did a 10 page chapter a week, but I don't think people will want to pay a buck a week for a single chapter… (also: I'm not Dickens) e: let me know if you think you/someone else would tune in for 50 pages once a month instead of every two weeks. More likely if the page count was closer to 75, or is a month too long to wait? e#2: how hard would it be to offer a "The story so far" ebook comprising all of the previous serial episodes? After, say, every 4th installment, publish a 'catch up' volume that has 1-4, then once the first 8 are out take that down and offer a 1-8 'catch up,' etc? Good idea, bad idea, easy to do, hard to do? Arnold of Soissons fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 19:28
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Romper Billson posted:True, but a good editor is more than just someone to relentlessly track down missing commas and dangling participles. At some point the relationship demands a fit for personality and vision as well -- to be able to think like the author, or to be able to push them in a certain way that they don't want to go (for marketability, readability, pacing, or other such issues). And in my experience, in-house editors are just better at maintaining personal relationships and easier to work with than freelancers are. I know this probably isn't the thread to discuss this, but I just wanted to agree. Working with an in-house editor becomes a partnership that can last many years. They don't just go over your book for a month and then move on -- they're the project managers, overseeing everything from start to end to bring about our shared vision for the finished book. When you self-publish you're essentially losing the traditional author-editor relationship because the author takes on the role of project manager and editors are hired hands without much investment in the final product. I'm personally someone who's very flexible and doesn't need to be in control of everything, so I prefer having an editor do the overseeing. I imagine if you're the opposite that self-publishing is that much more attractive.
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Mar 31, 2011 20:03
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Arnold of Soissons posted:Dickens only did a 10 page chapter a week, but I don't think people will want to pay a buck a week for a single chapter… (also: I'm not Dickens) A dollar for 10 pages isn't the worst deal in the world. People are willing to pay for entertainment, don't forget that. My first short, which continues to be my best seller, is only 1,900 words, which translates into about 14 pages in word and a bit more on the Kindle. Arnold of Soissons posted:e: let me know if you think you/someone else would tune in for 50 pages once a month instead of every two weeks. More likely if the page count was closer to 75, or is a month too long to wait? 50-75 pages a month would work as well. You're publishing this yourself, so it's ultimately up to you. This isn't a proven field, as Romper has pointed out, and for me it's all pretty experimental. I don't think there are any hard & fast answers yet. As for catch-up: I think it'd be good to include just a proper paragraph or so that encapsulates the story so far at the beginning of each successive installment. King did this with the Dark Tower series (though his were always needlessly wordy). Another idea, and one that will ensure people can find your work, is to include a link at the beginning and end of the texts that leads people to your Amazon page, where they can find all the pieces. I presume you're going to title them something like "Soissons Kickass Mind Bender: Part 1," "Soissons Kickass Mind Bender: Part 2," and so on? Hef Deezy, Romper posted:Triple agreeing. FingerbangMisfire fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Mar 31, 2011 |
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Mar 31, 2011 20:35
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FingerbangMisfire posted:Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate this whole thread as a sounding board. I was planning on doing a 'part 1' 'part 2' big with the names, yeah, but I hadn't thought of the reminder intros, which is a great idea.
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Mar 31, 2011 20:46
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Arnold of Soissons posted:e#2: how hard would it be to offer a "The story so far" ebook comprising all of the previous serial episodes? After, say, every 4th installment, publish a 'catch up' volume that has 1-4, then once the first 8 are out take that down and offer a 1-8 'catch up,' etc? Good idea, bad idea, easy to do, hard to do? That's up to you. You can upload anything to Amazon and it wouldn't be hard at all to put up a ebook comprising of all the previous serial episodes. Same with pulling the single editions. Personally, I think it is a horrible idea. If you are going with the serial idea, stick with it. If you aren't, write them and bundle them all together for a single release. How many serial episodes are you planning to write?
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Mar 31, 2011 22:09
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Sporadic posted:That's up to you. You can upload anything to Amazon and it wouldn't be hard at all to put up a ebook comprising of all the previous serial episodes. Same with pulling the single editions. Sorry, I'm fighting off a cold maybe I'm not being clear. Lets say I write a 200 page story and publish it 20 pages at a time. If you find out about this midway through and want to get into the story it will cost you .99 x 5 = $4.95. Of that $4.95 I will get $1.73. If, however, I publish a "half-way compendium" of the first 100 pages for $2.99, you will pay $2 less and I will get $2.09. Everybody wins, as best as I can tell. So, hypothetically, my published book list on Amazon would look like: Part #1 Part #2 Part #3 Part #4 Part #5 Parts #1-5 Part #6 Part #7 Part #8 Part #9 Part #10 Parts #1-10 Just to clarify, my original idea was to have to compendium float to always include the most recent installment, but that seems like too much work to bother with.
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Mar 31, 2011 23:25
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Arnold of Soissons posted:Sorry, I'm fighting off a cold maybe I'm not being clear. I'd add in Parts 6-10 as well as the 1-10 at the end, for people who bought 1-5, but didn't want to pay for each individual part. 6-10 at the same price as 1-5, 1-10 at maybe $1-$2 more?
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Mar 31, 2011 23:32
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I think Sporadic is right in that you should either be a serial or a novel. I'm not big on the bundle idea, myself, if only because it might get confusing. Maybe put them all together at the very end. I say this as someone who will probably release an anthology of shorts at some point in the future, however -- though I'd be including stories not available otherwise.
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Apr 1, 2011 00:11
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Arnold of Soissons posted:Sorry, I'm fighting off a cold maybe I'm not being clear. I understood what you meant. The reasons why I think it is a bad idea is because: A) You can possibly alienate the small fanbase you pick up. Let's say I'm one of your fans. I take a chance on the first part, enjoy it and pick up the next four. $5 not bad but then I see you release Parts 1-5 for $2.99. The reward for getting in on the ground floor is having to pay an extra $2? which rolls into B) Now that I know I can save money by waiting, I'll just wait for the next bundle. There is no reason for me to buy them individually since it is only a matter of time before the bundle is released. Anybody you pick up should be treated like gold. Your competition is releasing everything from short stories to full length novels for the same price or even less. The market you are going after is a bunch of frugal people who are willing to take a shot on something that is unproven. The reason I asked how many you were planning is because I was afraid you were planning too many. Your current plan ends up with people spending $10 on the end product which is the same as a published book. Even if you drew them in, I doubt you could keep them with that being the end game. A much better solution would be to break it into three pieces. Give the first one away and price the next two at $2.99. (If it was me, I would do the second one at $0.99) You get the most exposure out of part one and a bigger slice of the pie with the next two. The fans get the whole thing for $6 which isn't horrible for a full story (but it is kind of pushing it for a 200 page one). Exposure should come ahead of money when you are an unknown and self publishing (at least at first) Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Apr 1, 2011 |
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Apr 1, 2011 00:52
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Sporadic posted:Smart planning. Just quoting to say I agree with all of this.
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Apr 1, 2011 01:03
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What do people think about Kindle Singles? I don't quite "get" them, I assumed that they were for short stories, but I see more short stories for sale in the regular Kindle market and it seems that Singles is mostly bios and stuff. I've got a 2k word short story I like that I wouldn't mind publishing somewhere but I didn't know if it was right for Kindle Singles. It's also really weird to see professional-level covers done for every single short piece there. Sporadic posted:Hell, Harry Potter movies are the WORST at this. Every year the offer a new box set, but it's always "Years 1 - #". So you get a box set for Years 1-6, but not movies 7/8? I think I've seen 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, and 1-6. Myrddin Emrys fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Apr 1, 2011 |
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Apr 1, 2011 01:54
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Just out of curiosity, how are things like copy writes handled when uploading through something through Amazon? I was looking through the faq there, and it mentions copy writing and stuff like that.
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Apr 1, 2011 02:04
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Myrddin Emrys posted:What do people think about Kindle Singles? Apparently, you need to submit those to Amazon before you even add them to Amazon yourself. It adds a bar of entry, which I'm sure is done for quality control, since those singles seem to get a lot of attention from Amazon. Enigmahfc: You maintain ownership of your material.
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Apr 1, 2011 02:41
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Sporadic posted:That all makes a lot of sense, thanks. I'm making all of this up as I go, I really appreciate the advice.
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Apr 1, 2011 02:56
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Just now found this thread and thought I'd add in my two cents. I've self-published five books: Four novels and a sort of hybrid novella/collection of short stories sort of book. After finishing the first novel, I spent about a year querying agents. I knew from the outset that it would be hard to sell. I'm proud of my work and think all of it is drat fine stuff if the reader is willing to approach it on its own terms. But it's odd, quirky stuff that defies categorization. If I say my biggest influences are guys like Richard Brautigan, Donald Barthelme, Franz Kafka and Kurt Vonnegut, you'll get the idea. I understand very well that commercially, the best-case scenario is that I develop a sort of small but loyal cult following. I'm fine with that. And so, in shopping for agents for that first book, the best responses I got were a few that amounted to "Personally, I like it, but don't think I can sell it." I finally went the self-publishing route--first with printed books through CreateSpace and then with Kindle. My problem is that I'm, uh, shall we say, not an outgoing sort of guy. Very seriously not. Clearly, that's a handicap when things reach the point at which some self-promotion is required. I know the audience is out there. It's just a matter of finding it. So I'm interested in any ideas that might help. I've made a few fitful starts at trying to generate some buzz, but that's for another post. You can find me on Amazon here. And my own web site is here. Oh, and I downloaded a copy of Bodily Harm. Haven't read it yet, but I love the premise and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens.
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Apr 1, 2011 10:51
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I'm so very glad this thread was started.
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Apr 1, 2011 17:33
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Secret Agent X23 posted:Just now found this thread and thought I'd add in my two cents. I've self-published five books: Four novels and a sort of hybrid novella/collection of short stories sort of book. I've gotten similar responses with my book. I'm planning on self-publishing after I get a few more rejections, haha. Your books sounds pretty goddamn intriguing. And I'm impressed with how many you've published. Checking them out now. Can I ask why you chose $3.99 for the ebook price? Just curious. I'm also curious about how long it takes you to write. As for self-promoting: even if you're anxious about self-promoting, the easiest route is probably to have folks review the book. Check out http://thefrugalereader.com/ and http://gracekrispy.blogspot.com/. They've agreed to review my shorts, so I know there's at least a human there somewhere. Secret Agent X23 posted:
Thanks man! I really appreciate it. I'll get to your books as soon as the paycheck clears. Soissons, too.
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Apr 1, 2011 18:25
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Well, after listening to a goon's advice, I started a twitter account for myself-as-an-author. Very focused on reading/writing/connecting with people on topics, and so far it's actually netted me a sale or two. It seems people are more willing to buy something 1) when they actually know about it, and 2) when they talk to you about it and you're a real person underneath.
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Apr 1, 2011 20:28
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What's the twitter? I'll follow.
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Apr 1, 2011 20:38
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FingerbangMisfire posted:What's the twitter? I'll follow. JMartinAuthor. I have a personal account and this one.
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Apr 1, 2011 20:42
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This thread couldn't have shown up at a more perfect time  . I was just thinking about looking into publishing for the kindle. Thank you all for the advice so far!Question for those of you who self published with multiple formats/stores: how does that work? If you publish with Amazon, do you still have the rights to publish with Smashwords, etc? Also, good luck to you all!
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Apr 1, 2011 22:53
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Two Head Knight posted:Question for those of you who self published with multiple formats/stores: how does that work? If you publish with Amazon, do you still have the rights to publish with Smashwords, etc? Yessir, you can. I self-published with Barnes & Noble, Smashwords & Amazon. Smashwords hasn't done anything for me in terms of sales, but through them, I'm getting into the Apple store, Diesel & Kobo, which is great. You definitely want to be in as many places as possible!
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Apr 1, 2011 22:56
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FingerbangMisfire posted:Yessir, you can. I self-published with Barnes & Noble, Smashwords & Amazon. Smashwords hasn't done anything for me in terms of sales, but through them, I'm getting into the Apple store, Diesel & Kobo, which is great. Fabulous!  Thanks for the info!I'm reading this thread from work, but when I get home I'm going to have to check out everyone's books. Love the fact that there is Goon Lit. out there  .
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Apr 1, 2011 23:04
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Is there much space in the self-publishing Amazon world for fantasy stuff? I've been tinkering with it on and off over the years and would like to finish and publish it eventually. I've heard decent things from people about the writing and might try to make some cash off of it if possible. Man must eat and that. It isn't ground-breaking stuff and can be downright generic sometimes. It's fairly pulpy in its way and definitely isn't heavy duty intellectual stuff. You know what I mean...it's silly, fluffy sorts of things that you'd read when you don't want to think but would like a story with elves and dragons and large men with swords. Do any of you guys know if that market is oversaturated or not?
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Apr 1, 2011 23:06
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Two Head Knight posted:This thread couldn't have shown up at a more perfect time You retain all the rights. However there's stipulations in the TOS for the various publishers about pricing. I think they all say that theirs has to be the cheapest, so keep that in mind. You drop price in one place, make sure to drop it across the board. No "Kindle only" sales.
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Apr 1, 2011 23:33
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Myrddin Emrys posted:You retain all the rights. However there's stipulations in the TOS for the various publishers about pricing. I think they all say that theirs has to be the cheapest, so keep that in mind. You drop price in one place, make sure to drop it across the board. No "Kindle only" sales. Interesting.... thanks for the info! Also, I'm a slacker, so I bought and read FingerbangMisfire's "Bodily Harm" short story. Truly funny, dude . I especially loved your Brain character!Left you a review on Amazon.
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Apr 1, 2011 23:37
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Two Head Knight posted:Interesting.... thanks for the info! e: Myrddin Emrys--bought your book, too, brosef. I have a soft spot for vigilante tales  e2: D'oh! quote/=edit 
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Apr 1, 2011 23:45
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Two Head Knight posted:Interesting.... thanks for the info! Thanks so much man! Truly appreciate it. When / if you put something up, be sure to pimp it in the thread. I bought Myrddin's book & started reading it from work myself because he posted it.
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Apr 1, 2011 23:58
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FingerbangMisfire posted:Thanks so much man! Truly appreciate it. When / if you put something up, be sure to pimp it in the thread. I bought Myrddin's book & started reading it from work myself because he posted it. Any time ! Also, I think you guys have given me the nudge to finally go for it.I'm thinking about putting up a request in SAMart for a talented goon to hook me up with some cover art. Do you guys think $50 is fair for something like that? Am I being a cheapskate? I feel like I have no frame of reference  .
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Apr 2, 2011 00:06
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Two Head Knight posted:Any time I've heard from designers (I was friends with a bunch of them) that prices like that were insulting. I also heard from those same designers that they couldn't get any small work like that because too many people were chomping to get a paid gig of any kind that the $50 jobs were spoken for easily, so... Two Head Knight posted:e: Myrddin Emrys--bought your book, too, brosef. I have a soft spot for vigilante tales
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Apr 2, 2011 00:18
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Yeaaaah. That's what I'm worried about. I don't want to insult anyone by accident, but yeah. I'll have to think on that one. Thanks!
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Apr 2, 2011 00:24
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Two Head Knight posted:Yeaaaah. That's what I'm worried about. I don't want to insult anyone by accident, but yeah. I'll have to think on that one. There's also a lot of starving college kids who wouldn't mind $50. It's tough because the professionals I've talked to find it insulting, but only because it's taking work away from them, and they would charge a lot more. So it's up to you, I guess...
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Apr 2, 2011 00:31
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FingerbangMisfire posted:I've gotten similar responses with my book. I'm planning on self-publishing after I get a few more rejections, haha. Thanks for the kind words. I went with $3.99 because (a) I think for a number of reasons, ebooks should sell for less than printed books (no resale value, for one thing), and (b) it's the price that gives me approximately the same royalty per book as the printed versions. FingerbangMisfire posted:I'm also curious about how long it takes you to write. That depends on what you want to include in the writing process. All the main ideas behind these books are fairly old (although I have to insist I'm far from Montgomery Burns old, I probably have a few years on most of the folks here). It's just in the last few years that I've been able to focus on the task of writing a novel long enough to get it done. Anyway, the upshot is that all those books had been incubating in my head and lying around on paper in various unfinished incarnations for a number of years before I got serious with them. "The Hermit" is based on a one-act play I wrote, and the first draft of the novel took about three weeks. "Goliath" is simply an expanded and far superior rewrite of an old novella. "The Hookie-Pookie Man" is the book that was closest to being written from scratch, as I had only a two-page character sketch when I started. But I had a very clear idea where the story was going, things fell into place fairly easily, and the first draft took about two months. I usually take several passes at revising and editing, spacing them out a few weeks apart so I can come back to it relatively fresh each time. FingerbangMisfire posted:As for self-promoting: even if you're anxious about self-promoting, the easiest route is probably to have folks review the book. Check out http://thefrugalereader.com/ and http://gracekrispy.blogspot.com/. They've agreed to review my shorts, so I know there's at least a human there somewhere. There are a handful of reviews out there. My favorite is this review of "The Hookie-Pookie Man" at ireadoddbooks.com: http://ireadoddbooks.com/the-hookie-pookie-man-by-ray-holland/ FingerbangMisfire posted:Thanks man! I really appreciate it. I'll get to your books as soon as the paycheck clears. Soissons, too. Thanks. My personal favorite is "The Hookie-Pookie Man," but go with whatever looks good to you.
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Apr 2, 2011 00:38
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Hard to not take the advice of the writer. "The Hookie-Pookie Man" it is.
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Apr 2, 2011 00:44
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This is seriously my favorite thread to see new posts in.  I (finally) settled on a pen name and registered blogspot. Tomorrow I'll either be writing or joining some of the previously mentioned websites under my author name. Or I'll be sick, which is still a distinct possibility.
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Apr 2, 2011 01:04
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Don't forget to post websites and whatnot in the thread so we can find you. Self-promotion starts at home.
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Apr 2, 2011 02:59
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