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On helopticor's point: Up until the beginning of 12, this show doesn't really seem to have "time travel", just the illusion of it. The camera never follows a text message on its journey from present into past; we never see things playing out in a different way from before like in other time travel stories like the movie Triangle. Instead, rather strikingly, everything keeps moving forward. There is a shudder in reality, the scene changes to a closeup of that digital clock, and the same protagonist is in a new universe. Flashbacks aside, the timeline in the show has only ever gone forward, at least until the opening scene of episode 12.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 22:28 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 06:26 |
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 I have been waiting for you two to post next to one another for so long you have no idea.
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| # ? Jun 23, 2011 23:11 |
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Raenir Salazar posted:It could have been Okabe being melodramatic in some inner monologue though. Honestly, I was expecting the bomb threat to be legit and it to go off, and then Team Steiner to have to send someone back with a Time Leap to stop it. But since I was able to predict it, obviously it would have been too predictable to actually happen. 
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| # ? Jun 24, 2011 17:43 |
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Re:Pigeonhole principle: The impossible compression bothers you, but the fact they can arbitrarily harness a black hole using a network connection to the LHC, and can extract information from it, doesn't? Maybe I'm just weird, I'm a physicist working in IT but I managed to cope, maybe because I threw a lot out of the window when they can send a text message back in time but not an email? Anyway, ending on a positive note: According to quantum immortality, which follows from the many-worlds concept, there will always be a world line in which Mayuri doesn't get killed.
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| # ? Jun 27, 2011 17:39 |
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Scikar posted:Maybe I'm just weird, I'm a physicist working in IT but I managed to cope, maybe because I threw a lot out of the window when they can send a text message back in time but not an email? Technically they are sending emails. In Japan you send actual emails (as in, MIME encapsulation etc.) from your phone rather than SMS messages, for various historical reasons.
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| # ? Jun 27, 2011 20:54 |
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I'm not a programmer, but had to pause the episode at that point to laugh for three minutes straight.
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| # ? Jun 27, 2011 22:55 |
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Hungry Gerbil posted:I'm not a programmer, but had to pause the episode at that point to laugh for three minutes straight. I don't think using mini black holes to compress information is any more silly than making the mini black holes themselves.
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| # ? Jun 27, 2011 23:39 |
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Sledeau posted:I don't think using mini black holes to compress information is any more silly than making the mini black holes themselves. He's a programmer, not a physicist 
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 00:47 |
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I'm not a physicist, but couldn't the data be compressed temporally using some crazy time-dilation effect in the black hole? They wouldn't be compressing 4.5 TB into 18 KB, they'd be compressing the amount of time it takes for the device to transmit the 4.5 TB into the 18 KB time window.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 01:37 |
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No, no, don't try to rationalize anime. Down that path lies madness.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 01:50 |
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I didn't even hear the explanation and just assumed that more blackholes=more data.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 01:53 |
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The problem is that while you can bend physics around black holes, you can't bend it when it leaves the black hole and goes through a copper and fiber optic lines. 18 KB is 18 KB. Under the normal laws of physics and the way computers and data transmission operates, you physically cannot get anything more out of it. It's the same basis as compression artifacts when performing a very high compression using a lossy compression method. Lossless methods can only compress so much before it can no longer discern identical data points and the indexing becomes too large.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 02:58 |
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Obviously they take the hash of the multi-terabyte memory dump, send that, then use the world's largest rainbow table at the other end to work out all possible sets of data that could hash to that and use the one that looks most like someone's memories. Also, black holes 
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 03:22 |
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So you guys can accept microwave-based time-machines, but black hole data compression breaks your willing suspension of disbelief? That makes sense 
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 03:47 |
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Redcrimson posted:So you guys can accept microwave-based time-machines, but black hole data compression breaks your willing suspension of disbelief? That makes sense It's not data compression its a higher data transmission rate, she just explained it that way because it's easier to understand.  Engineering
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 04:02 |
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Redcrimson posted:So you guys can accept microwave-based time-machines, but black hole data compression breaks your willing suspension of disbelief? That makes sense I'm honestly tired of this whole "you complained or otherwise made an observation about minor aspect A so obviously you have no problem with everything else" attitude that I've seen all over the place lately (hardly just in this thread). It doesn't add anything to the conversation. People sometimes like to just point out specific examples of things they found odd without having to stop and consider how to write out a full itemised list of all other things that were equally strange.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 04:08 |
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As a programmer myself I fully understand the Programming and Data Theory is Serious Business and also understand probably none of us are seriously using the Pidgeon hole as an actual point "against" the shows outstanding quality. They have the "Just Bugs Me" category in TvTropes JUST for this exact purpose, to grouse over finer details while otherwise sitting back and enjoying the show. Its perfectly understandable that its ALOT easier to maintain the MST3K Mantra while its NOT focused on your field of profession.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 04:21 |
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Xythar posted:Obviously they take the hash of the multi-terabyte memory dump, send that, then use the world's largest rainbow table at the other end to work out all possible sets of data that could hash to that and use the one that looks most like someone's memories. Honestly this was one of the first things that came to mind. The reason this is so much more obviously silly than the other stuff in the show is because they're explaining it in that much more detail. When they say "some combination of a microwave and a lifter makes a time machine", it's not as easy to point to something specific as being factually nonsense - because there is nothing specific. When they say "this is exactly how it works" then the sci-fi handwaving breaks down. It's not a problem for me, though, and I doubt it is for anyone else. It was funny when they said it because it was so *obviously* wrong, but in the end, like many of you guys are saying, this show is just so silly and fun that it's really easy to accept it. 
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 04:29 |
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XboxPants posted:it's not as easy to point to something specific as being factually nonsense - because there is nothing specific. When they say "this is exactly how it works" then the sci-fi handwaving breaks down. Singularities are the sci-fi way of saying magic happens. Whelp here we go maybe the actual cap on data sent back in time is determined by space not actually energy as you would expect, this is supported by gel-banana, surely that took more energy then sending only 16kB in text back. So what the device actually does is spend days sending 32TB of info from your brain into the singularity then sends that back in time to your old self, somehow all working out nicely in the end. They could easily test this theory by increasing/decreasing their bandwidth in some fashion and trying it out. My main problem with the whole thing was how they were able to process 32TB in the short period of time I'm sure the time travel will take for story reasons. Singularities are common science magic bullshit in stories and whenever they are mentioned I just go yeah whatever sure, and move on, but a computer processes 32TB of info in a quick period of time whaaat. I don't mind that much though, I read a ton of stuff in sci-fi that makes far far less sense, and enjoy it. ShinsoBEAM! fucked around with this message at Jun 28, 2011 around 04:53 |
| # ? Jun 28, 2011 04:50 |
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Xythar posted:I'm honestly tired of this whole "you complained or otherwise made an observation about minor aspect A so obviously you have no problem with everything else" attitude that I've seen all over the place lately (hardly just in this thread). It doesn't add anything to the conversation.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 05:01 |
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C'mon guys, if we're going to do some handwaving with black holes, you gotta include an energy to mass conversion. Kuristina is utilizing the power of the LHC to transcribe the data into self-extracting Higgs Bosons, such that they can be supercoiled onto electrons and thus into 18 bytes. tl;dr: Y'all should have some more fun with this show.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 05:43 |
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Well new episode is out. When this is over Okarin is either going to become a broken husk of a man or the most hardened badass this side of Kenshiro. I'm just not sure which.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 19:11 |
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okarin become meguca for
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 19:36 |
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Those bastard killed tuturuuu so many time... wtf. I'm sad 
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 19:39 |
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Unlike Homura, Okabe shouldn't have trouble convincing his lab-mates he knows the future. Also, three hours is obviously too little time, weren't they able to send memories up to 48h back? DON'T KEEP DYING ON US 
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 20:00 |
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(13):Puella Scientisto Mayuri Magica? This episode kind of reminded me of the 2002 version of The Time Machine, where trying to prevent your girlfriend's death only results in her getting killed over-and-over again in increasingly depressing ways.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 20:45 |
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To be honest all I could think of was sweet bro and hella jeff at the end of that But yeah, I don't think he was going back a full 48 hours. Seems more like 5 or 6. Maybe he'll try a bit further this next round. e: oh wait, what they have to do is send a d-mail and change the world line or something, probably. Tuturu is destined to die in this one, I guess. Kjoery fucked around with this message at Jun 28, 2011 around 21:00 |
| # ? Jun 28, 2011 20:55 |
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HOLY poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo poo  AND I AM ONLY THREE MINUTES IN Ok, now that I have actually watched it... Dammit, Okabe, I know you like to take the whole burden yourself, but at this point you straight up saw Suzuha show off her crazy soldier skills! Rely on her a bit more! Also it was god damned awesome that they used a previous Future Gadget against Shining Finger and the CERN people. Future Gadgets Lab ftw. XboxPants fucked around with this message at Jun 28, 2011 around 21:58 |
| # ? Jun 28, 2011 21:33 |
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Hooooly poo poo this show rules. I imagine Puela Magi x Steins;Gate fanart is just gonna explode in popularity.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 21:59 |
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nielsm posted:Unlike Homura, Okabe shouldn't have trouble convincing his lab-mates he knows the future. Also, three hours is obviously too little time, weren't they able to send memories up to 48h back? DON'T KEEP DYING ON US Speculation here: Wasn't the 48 hours the time limit at which the future brain becomes too different from the past brain to reconcile the memories? I'm probably misremembering but wouldn't that imply that Okabe can only make a limited number of jumps before he simply can't travel back anymore become the new memories won't integrate with his old ones? If so I guess he chose 3 hours because it's enough time to change things but short enough that he gets several do-overs before he runs out of time leaps.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 22:44 |
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Memory time travel is even more hosed up than regular time travel.
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 22:51 |
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(13)drat it's like Primer, Madoka, and Run Lola Run all mixed together. The fact that I've really grown fond of these characters makes this rather rough to watch. Of course, that also really makes me want to keep watching.  Some musings/speculation: I think maybe if he jumps world lines he could save her, but god only knows what else might change if he does that. I'm really curious to see if we learn why Mayuri seemed to know what was coming the first time, my wild guess is that she was the volunteer for the Leap experiment originally and the experiment was under way when SERN burst in and Okarin got killed right before her memories were transfered. Who knows though, maybe she's just vaguely psychic or something, that could be used as a rationalization for her general oddness. Whatever time loving around with machine SERN is using is interesting, it doesn't seem like a time stop, but it's doing something to time because of its effect on timepieces. It almost seems like Shining Finger is either not in complete control of herself or is breaking down in some way. She could also just be an unstable murderous lunatic too. Next tuesday can't come soon enough really. a kitten fucked around with this message at Jun 29, 2011 around 03:34 |
| # ? Jun 29, 2011 00:05 |
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So death is one thing that time travel can't cheat huh, well God drat it he better find a way cause tuturu can't go out like that.
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 02:59 |
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I know it's terrible of me, but I couldn't help but laugh at poor Mayuri getting accidentally shoved off the train platform by the little girl, she really has it rough this episode. Also, the part where the mom says the bullet train is white, with Okabe sprinting by in the background is pretty funny. In any event, Okabe really needs to start explaining what's going on to everybody when he time leaps, I was getting annoyed with him about that. At this rate, it seems he'll need to come up with a way to perform a combo d-mail/leap to get out of this vicious cycle without losing very important knowledge.
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 05:03 |
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Having played Ghost Trick (a game where the main character is a ghost who goes around time traveling to a couple minutes before someone's death to try and save them) a month or so ago I couldn't really take this episode that seriously. The second time she died I just started cracking up because I realized that it was just going to keep happening 
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 05:11 |
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Mason Dixon posted:I know it's terrible of me, but I couldn't help but laugh at poor Mayuri getting accidentally shoved off the train platform by the little girl, she really has it rough this episode. Also, the part where the mom says the bullet train is white, with Okabe sprinting by in the background is pretty funny. In any event, Okabe really needs to start explaining what's going on to everybody when he time leaps, I was getting annoyed with him about that.. He's getting better, though. He shared a bit with Christina the first leap.
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 07:30 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIbBKpZWabQ If you laughed at this, you're as horrible as I am. Wheezle fucked around with this message at Jun 29, 2011 around 14:11 |
| # ? Jun 29, 2011 13:44 |
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Hey Okarin do you think you could try explaining things to people, it might just work you know This is getting pretty loving ridiculous though. This episode was some Final Destination poo poo 
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 14:10 |
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God it's frustrating when the main character of a show decides not to tell anyone what the hell is going on for absolutely no reason whatsoever, it's such an artificial way to create tension.
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 18:40 |
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| # ? May 19, 2013 06:26 |
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Zahki posted:God it's frustrating when the main character of a show decides not to tell anyone what the hell is going on for absolutely no reason whatsoever, it's such an artificial way to create tension. Possibly he has a problem in that he's been crying 'wolf' (SERN) so often before that they'd have less reason to believe him now that they really are after him.
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 19:36 |
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