Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Hello and Welcome to the SomethingAwful.com Ask/Tell Martial Arts thread. This thread is for people curious about starting a martial art, as well as general MA discussion. The last thread was over 350 pages, so we decided to start a new post.

Why Should I, a Goon, enroll in a martial art?

r.y.f.s.o. posted:

I was a bit of a tubbo, 6'0" and 215, but I was definitely lacking in anything resembling muscle from years of lifting nothing heavier than a notebook and my fingers to type on it. I got sick of feeling like a wet noodle constantly and chose BJJ / Muay Thai in the hope it would beat the fear and fat out of me, and it did.

Fontoyn posted:

Also, pump yourself up. poo poo like: "this motherfucker can't do poo poo to my butt" relaxes and psyches me up.

You don't have to be strong or fast or tough to start a martial art. Actually, starting one will make you stronger faster and tougher than you probably thought possible. Read this OP, read the thread and get going!

The Rules
1. Don't be an rear end in a top hat. This includes, but is not limited to: making GBS threads on someone's style/training/school/instructor just for the sake of doing so, or attacking another poster on a personal level. It is possible for reasonable, adult human beings to disagree with each other, and discuss the merits of an aspect of MA (for the greater benefit of everyone) without it becoming a shitfest. So if you're taking something personally, stay out of the thread.

Shitfests get bad here because we all are aggressive people, if you find yourself in a heated discussion, take a second to relax and consider that you are typing on the internet.

2. A style of Martial Arts in the modern day is simply a commercial brand, don't put any more stock into it than you would your Nike shoes or iPod MP3 player. Always base your decision on what you want to do with your time.

If you like punching people in the face (and don't mind getting punched in return), there are "styles" for this. If you like wrestling around, there are styles for that. Pretty much anything you want to do that revolves around fighting, even avoiding fighting completely can be found within the Martial Arts.

Martial Arts is a broad discipline; it exists in many forms and there are many paths from which to chose. These include Self Defense arts (Krav Maga, RBSD styles), Combat Sports (MMA, Kickboxing, Submission Grappling), Performance/Demonstration styles (XMA, Wushu), Historical arts (Iaido, Kendo), and much more.

3)Take the time to read up on things a bit before you ask questions that could be answered by going to Wikipedia. The info will go a long way towards helping you find what's right for you.

4)Keep the following rule in mind: Individual > Training Method > Style. No matter what you do, if you are not training hard, in the way that most fits your goal, the name over your gym's door does not do any good.

4. Really, Don't be an rear end in a top hat

I am new to martial arts, what should I do?

First, read this quote on Martial Arts for Self Defense:

Mechafunkzilla posted:

There is no martial art where the basics can be "grasped decently" in a short amount of time such that it would actually help you. It's all about internalizing the movements until they become second nature, tons of repetition, and lots and lots of sparring. The only way you can ever really become proficient at any concept or technique is to use it in sparring against a resisting opponent. That's why many martial arts don't work. Anything that claims to teach you actually useful self-defense skills in a few days or weeks and isn't called "how to buy running shoes that fit" is bullshit. Even if the techniques are sound, showing them to people who won't practice them for a few months is just setting them up to get stabbed to death when they try to fight someone instead of run away.

It is important to realize that a "6 week executive self defense course" or "woman's defense seminar" is, at best, useless. You should consider a martial art as a longterm hobby, like cooking, playing basketball, or learning to knit.

Second:
Knowing how to fight and knowing self defense are not the same thing. They are in fact, often completely opposite goals: fighting is about winning, self defense about surviving.

The number 1 self defense technique is: don't get into bad situations.

quote:

My friend got jumped by three people outside a strip club at 3 am. He just got a few bruises but he asked what I would have done, as a martial artist. I told him: I wouldn't hang out in a strip club parking lot at 3 am!

You can use martial arts as part of self defense, but only as a part not a whole for example:

You do Muay thai: You can knee a guy in the stomach and run away

You do Bjj: You use your guard to recover from a blindside tackle and run away

Notice how both scenarios don't end with a KO or submission, they end with getting the hell out of there.

This is a nice article on realistic self defense:
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-truth-about-violence

Third

Dont Wait to Start! Gyms will train anyone that can shuffle through their door, they won't judge or turn you away. There are a lot of stone cold bad asses that started super out of shape. You don't need to workout 6 weeks or do anything to prepare, just show up and do what you can as much as you can!

:siren:
Do not try to Teach Yourself a Martial Art. DVDs, The internet, and Books will not teach you what you need to know and will lead to bad habits at best and injuries at worst. Find a teacher, Youtube-jitsu does not work.

Imagine your diet:
Books, Videos, and Media are supplements, the gym is what you are actually eating. No one can survive only on supplements, no matter how many gel caps they cram down in a day.

Now That we have our big warnings out of the way, I will divide the recommendation section by general category. These are generalizations, and like all generalizations, will leave out exceptions. Please remember that these are all generalizations and you might find a school of XXX that is not like what you read here.

I highly recommend linking the website for any school you are interested in here, the collective MA knowledge is staggering and someone will have advice for you.

Practical
Often Competition oriented, these styles feature full contact, live sparring and generally hold "does it work?" above any other factor.

If you want useful you should stick to: Bjj, Muay Thai, Judo, kickboxing/boxing, kyokushin karate. You might find a gym doing a practical form of,say, Kung Fu, but it's just better odds that those styles will give you skills you can apply to a real life resisting human being of your size/strength.

*Olympic Tae Kwon Do is also a competitive sporting style, but its ruleset encourages techniques that are less practical in a generic no-rule, or MMA situation. Still a cool sport and tell Anthony Pettis TKD is useless.

*If you are school-aged, and your school has a wrestling team, consider joining it. Wrestling is a highly effective martial art. I do not include it here because it's hard to find independent wrestling schools or clubs once you are out of school.

First thing you should break down is whether you would rather strike or grapple. Second, find the best place and teacher for what you want to do. Third, if you have multiple options, take the style you are most interested in doing.

Striking Styles, in no particular order:
Muay Thai
Boxing
Kickboxing
Kyokushin Karate
Savate
San Shou

Grappling Styles:
Judo
Brazilian jiu-jitsu
Sambo
Submission Wrestling (aka catch wrestling)

Summary:
1)Decide if you want to hit or hug.
2) Find the best teacher/gym for whichever you prefer.
3) If you have equal teaching options, go with the style you are most interested in.

I say teacher before style because who you are training with is a much bigger deal than what you are training, assuming you stick to the MA styles named above. If you've got an Olympic level Judo gym down the block, it's sort of foolish to train with a blue belt in bjj because you insist on doing jiu-jitsu.

Performance
These styles are generally less interested in applying techniques against resisting opponents and more about personal development: physical and mental

Styles Include: Kung Fu, Most forms of Karate, Tai Chi, Wushu, Wing Chun, Aikido, Iado.

The Advice for finding a school here is pretty similar to practical styles. Find a good teacher, accredited by whatever body sanctions the art. Make sure the facilities are decent, the students seem comfortable and enthusiastic. Judge it the same way you would a book club, aerobic class, cooking course, any other activity.

Weapon

Because it's not 1645, most weapon arts are more about tradition and personal practice than practical application. If you are interested in a sporting weapon application, check out Kendo and Fencing. If you want practical use of sticks and knives, the best you will find is in a FMA (filipino martial art). If you want to do cool stuff with different sharp things, check out wushu or (ugh)XMA. You might also want to consider "european martial arts" which is basically people using old manuals to reconstruct traditional european methods of fighting, both armed and unarmed.

If you want practical sword fighting: :frogout:

What to Avoid
There are some things you really just want to avoid, no matter what you're looking for in a style. Now, please remember these are just things that should make you question the gym and really consider if you want to join, not hard/fast rules. Still, these negatives usually come in groups, so I doubt you will more than one of these warning signs at a legit school.

1) No free introductory lesson or "try before you buy option". Any legitimate school should be perfectly happy to have someone drop by and check out the atmosphere, as well as offer some form of introductory class.

I also warn you against long term contracts, especially if the school does not offer any month to month option. 3month/6month/1year contracts have become more popular, even among legit schools, because it gives the gym owner an assured income over a set period of time, rather than having to recalculate and sweat revenue every 4 weeks. Still, they should accommodate you if you only want to pay month to month.

2) Long term contracts and high pressure sales. if you feel like you're talking to a used car salesman, look for the door.

3) Ridiculous rankings: Yes you might be lucky enough to live close to a 7th dan, but if google does not turn up 5 pages featuring their name, it's probably bogus. Anyone claiming to have multiple high level black belts or any level of black belt over 3 or 4 should merit close scrutiny.

Remember, anyone can get a black belt http://www.amazon.com/Shihan-Karate-Belt-BLACK-300cm/dp/B003EH3MHE/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1304439407&sr=8-9

4) Insane claims: Spirit Magic Chi bombs, one touch KO power, death touches, bullet dodging. There is a reason you don't see anyone, ever, doing these things outside of their carefully constructed environment/scenario. They are a fantasy. If you want to learn this stuff, go here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref...&qid=1304360469

5) Ninjitsu: This was never a style, it is dubious if ninjas even actually existed as organized groups. Anyone claiming a ninjitsu lineage is either making it up, or buying into someone who is making it up. There is room for almost everyone in martial arts, but these schools are so bad, and so shady, that I will universally recommend avoiding them.

Finally, you may want to take a look at Bullshido's review forum to see if anyone has already been to the school(s) you're interested in attending. They've also expanded to review everything remotely martial arts related, so if you're curious about a DVD instructional or (god help you) energy drinks take a look

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50

Styles
Krav Maga
Real "krav maga" is military combatives much the same as any other military combatives taught to any other army in the world, a short course of "stab him with your bayonet if you have no other options like shooting him"

- What is taught in the US as krav maga has precisely no quality control over what's taught, because anyone can open a gym and call it krav maga

- There is a 99:1 crap:ok ratio and neckdeep bullshit

- What is taught is never tested in competition. Real, full-speed competition is an essential part of becoming competent at fighting, for conditioning against the adrenaline, developing skills of timing etc, and testing effectiveness of techniques. Krav Doesn't Have This. It has fat guys in combat pants doing Jason Bourne cosplay. How do you know how good you are at fighting if you've never had a fight?

- You are taught striking by people who have never trained striking properly as part of a real striking art. Watch some krav videos. It's all stupid bullshit like I've linked, or bad kickboxing. Tip: Skip the bad kickboxing taught by a guy who did a 1-week army combatives course, and do real good kickboxing taught by a guy who has been a real fighter and trains real fighters

- Mostly there's no grappling or it's terrible

- It has a focus on REAL WORLD SELF DEFENCE when the preferred real world self defence technique is not getting in a fight in the first place, and if you do, then having the skills from an actual proper fighting art like boxing, muay thai, etc will serve you much better than trying to chop people in the side of the neck to knock them out

- Almost all the techniques taught (except the bad kickboxing) assume an untrained opponent, and will not work on a trained opponent, ie throat punches, terrible takedowns, eye pokes, groin kicks, etc, whereas in actual fighting sports you learn things that work against other trained people as well as your average guy



There is no reason to do it. Why are you so set on it?


If you are set on learning some sort of fighting for the vanishingly unlikely scenario that you'll actually need to use it for self defence it takes a lot of actual hard work and dedication to become competent, and it's best to cross train a striking and a grappling art. Do BJJ because hugging dudes in pyjamas is really fun.
Muay Thai Fight Videos!

Art of the 8 limbs blah blah watch these and ong bak and go chop down a tree with low kicks

Guilty posted:

Went through my post history to watch some good fights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQvvVowW2HA&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=UUpFNovPlkKcXRJcUQGfUhqg&v=LczXRTlh__0#t=114s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL_jBxmQ3t4&t=6m15s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QUy0p_j1wtE

Two Parter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z95oLaR36DM&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evc3JnGZ8PU&feature=related

This is probably the one you're going to want to watch the most, one of the best fights, brain vs. brawn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fobuj8J-vZA&feature=player_embedded

This fight gets so technical, they don't even fight!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLDL_1L8F9s&feature=youtu.be
edit: I think my favorite part is when Thepsuthin fakes a teep, Antuan fakes a grab, Thepsuthin sees the fake, tries for a real teep, sees he's not going to make it, keeps the fake up, Antuan makes the grab, Thepsuthin knows this will happen, and pulls back before Antuan can score any points. It's like they're both psychic

Sitmonchai highlight reel. Muay Thai's "boxing pro" (still no boxer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fec32bOLvLw&feature=youtu.be


Aikido

Internetjack posted:

A few comments on Aikido; I trained in it for four years back in my college days. It was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

I like how Aikido was classified in the OP, a performance discipline.

In four years, training 2-3 days a week, I never learned to be an rear end-kicking machine; nor did I ever want to be one.
What I did learn though was more of a philosophy, a way of being and walking through life. There was plenty of cool poo poo and exercise too.

What I learned was breathing, walking, being calm in mind and body, relaxing, and facing conflict with love in your heart. These were lessons I could take off the mat, into my every day life. These are lessons that have served me in work, friendships, and confrontations for the last 16 years. That is why I love Aikido. I still do my turning exercises in the living room to this day.

The best advice I can offer anyone that is looking to pursue a martial art, is to be humble. Subject yourself sincerely to what the teacher and school is offering. Don't judge, don't critique. It may take years for the lessons to make sense. If you're not comfortable with what you are submitting to, then maybe it is not the school or discipline that is appropriate for you. Feel free to shop around. There are lots of arts, schools, and teachers out there. Find one that suits what you are looking for.

mewse posted:

Boxing

Most people don't know poo poo about boxing.
  • In this thread, you can ask any general questions about boxing and how it compares to the other martial arts. There is a lot of equipment shared between boxing and other striking disciplines, so asking "are these gloves crappy?" in this thread is perfectly fine.
  • W&W has a boxing training thread where you can discuss training boxing specifically. It gets less traffic than this thread but boxing culture can be a bit different sometimes.
  • The boxing thread in the punchsport pagoda is where you'll go if you'd like to discuss fights as a spectator rather than a participant.

Sambo

quote:


Here's a Sambo write-up, shamelessly copied and pasted (and edited) from my school's website:

quote:
An acronym for “SAMozashchita Bez Oruzhiya” or “Self-defense without weapons”, Sambo is a form of sport, self-defense, and combat established in the former Soviet Union during the early twentieth century. Under the leadership of Sambo’s forefathers V.S. Oshchepkov, V.A. Spiridinov, and A. A. Kharlampiev, indigenous fighting styles from regions including Japan, China, Mongolia, India, Africa, Europe, North America, Caucasus, and Russia were studied and blended into what is now known as Sambo. After generations of civilian and military refinement, Sambo has evolved into an extremely formidable fighting art with principles applicable to martial artists of any style. Sambo’s arsenal includes, but is not limited to, strikes, joint locks, chokes, throws, ground fighting, and weapons. Like all fighting systems, Sambo continues to grow and evolve in both its sport and combat variants.

Sambo’s effectiveness lies in the student’s ability to master and flow with his or her own natural body movements. Inasmuch, Sambo training begins with an examination of one’s instinctive approaches to movement. Once the student begins to move freely and comfortably, alone and in tandem with other students, techniques are taught that synchronize with the student’s innate movement style and individual preferences. In Sambo training of this kind, techniques evolve out of and generate their power from fluid, confident, and comfortable understanding of physical movement and energy manipulation. Standardized technique is secondary to improvisational movement.

This is not to say that strength, power, and technique do not play a role in Sambo. Quite the opposite, refined technique, power, and strategy are integral to Sambo’s effectiveness. As students progress, they begin to negotiate an individual balance between strength and movement - fortifying devastating strikes, throws, and combative techniques. In essence, every practitioner practices a system of Sambo unique to his or her self. Unlike most other martial arts, Sambo does not practice standardized kata, forms, or curriculum.

Sambo practiced as a sport comes in several different flavors. Sport sambo in Russia is most similar to Judo, with an emphasis on throws and pins, and very limited time on the ground to finish submissions. There is also "combat sambo" the sport -- distinct from combat sambo, which is essentially military combatives meant for practical self-defense -- which is like a hybrid of regular sport sambo and mixed martial arts, where there is still scoring from takedowns and pins, but with the addition of punches, kicks, and knees.

In the US, many schools (particularly members of the American Sambo Association) compete in "freestyle sambo" which is a modified ruleset for sport sambo in which more emphasis is placed on the grappling aspect of sambo, and there is more time spent on the ground after a takedown.

An important distinction between sambo and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is that sambo generally spends more time learning and practicing leglocks and less time on the guard, due to the pinning rules and limited grappling time (conversely, because you can't reap the leg during leg control in BJJ and because beginners usually don't learn leglocks at all, leglocks get less attention). This isn't to say that any given sambo/BJJ practitioner or school won't be great at one or the other, though.





Other SomethingAwful links
Grappling thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3386441&pagenumber=24#lastpost
MMA Fan subforum: http://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=177

External Martial Arts link:

Bullshido: http://www.bullshido.net/

Bullshido can be a little crude and I'm pretty sure a lot of their forum posters are overweight 13 year olds but they host honest discussions on martial arts and do god's work in spotlighting really lovely martial art schools and people.

It's also run by an SA goon, the whole place has a vaguely somethingawful feel. Check out their newbietown section to ask questions without fear of being trolled. The advanced Striking/grappling forums are also pretty good.

I would provide links to other good martial arts forums and websites, if they existed.

Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jun 22, 2013

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
Various Martial Art Descriptions and A big old post on Conditioning

Thoguh posted:

How is this for a Judo write-up? Any suggestions for changes to the format or the content?

Judo


What is Judo?
Judo was founded in 1882 by Jigoro Kano, who had studied with several Juijitsu schools and wanted to create a system that could be practiced at full speed and intensity, as well as avoiding the secretive nature of traditional Juijitsu schools. In more modern times, Judo has been an Olympic sport since 1964 and is practiced in practically every country around the world.

Judo matches generally range from 3-5 minutes depending on the level of the competitors. The goal of the match is to win by Ippon, which can be obtained in one of three ways. A competitor can throw his or her opponent flat onto their back, force them to submit via a choke or arm-bar, or pin their opponent to the mat for 25 seconds. Lesser scores of Wazari and Yuko can also be scored for throws that don’t quite put the opponent flat onto their back, or for pins that are held between 15-24 seconds.

A Judo practice will generally be around an hour and a half and will consist of a 15-20 minute warm-up followed by around 45 minutes to an hour of instruction and ending with 15-30 minutes of live sparring, called Randori. The split between standing techniques and matwork will vary by club. Some clubs train almost exclusively standup and others will be 50/50 between standup and matwork. The average is probably around 80% standup, 20% matwork.

Anything you could ever possibly want to know about Judo you can also find at Judoinfo



Why do Judo?
Judo is a complete grappling art that will allow you to train both stand up and matwork techniques. Due to the wide variety of techniques available, Judo is a great choice for anyone regardless of body type. Judo is also an art that you can train and compete at any level. Whether you're a completely out of shape goon who just wants to get out of his parent's basement or a former elite college wrestler, there are opportunities available for you to work out with and fight against people with similar goals.



How do I get into Judo?
Basically, just find a local club and show up. Everyone is happy to have new white belts. You'll eventually need to purchase a Judogi (a decent single weave will probably run you $50-$70), but for your first practice shorts and a sweatshirt is usually fine. Many clubs also have spare Judogis that they will lend out to beginners.

Judo is governed worldwide by the International Judo Federation (IJF) and each country has its own affiliate organization. In the United States this is USA Judo (USJI). USA Judo maintains a list of all affiliated clubs here. The US Judo Federation (USJF) and the US Judo Association (USJA) are secondary IJF affiliates in the US. So if you find a club that is not listed in the link above but is affiliated with one of the other two organizations, it is still legitimate. There are politics involved between the three, but from a non-elite athlete's perspective they are all pretty much the same.

Judo tends to be one of the cheapest martial arts to join because for the most part the instructors are part time and either run the club as part of a community organization like a YMCA or by renting mat time at a local gym. Because they don't have a profit motive they are able to charge just enough to cover expenses and keep costs low for the students.


Even Putin does Judo.

Brazilian Jiu-jitsu

Smegmatron posted:

I made a BJJ post. Tell me if I got anything drastically wrong. Also if anybody can find an image of a rear naked choke that doesn't involve MMA fighters, post it and I'll put it in. I spent ages looking and all I could find was lots of really bad tattoos.

Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu (a.k.a BJJ, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, GJJ)



What is Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu?
Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) is a grappling art derived from judo with a stronger focus on ground fighting techniques. Originally brought to Brazil by a Japanese migrant, the Japanese art was modified by Gastao's youngest son Helio to suit his small, weak frame. Helio modified the art to minimize the amount of strength and agility required to succeed by exploiting superior leverage and positioning instead. Helio's art became known as Gracie Jiu-jitsu or Brazillian Jiu-jitsu. BJJ has become the basis for the hand to hand combat cirriculum of many military and law enforcement units as well as a cornerstone of most mixed martial arts fighters' skillsets.

The artform focuses on gaining a positional advantage over an opponent and then if necessary, applying a submission technique to incapacitate them. These techniques generally take them form of either a joint manipulation or a choke and can be applied from many different positions if the opportunity arises. BJJ's cirriculum also includes techniques for defending yourself when you're in an unfovourable position as well as techniques to escape these situations. This, coupled with the BJJ's focus on technique over athleticism means that the art is suitable for people of all shapes, sizes and levels of fitness. Women frequently train in the same classes as men (although compete separately) and have little trouble in doing so. Please note that "all shapes and sizes and levels of fitness" is a generalisation and 500lb hambeasts should probably consult a doctor, not a BJJ instructor.

Unlike judo, competitive BJJ matches only end when a competitor submits, passes out, gets disqualified or time runs out. Depending on who is running a tournament and who is participating, a BJJ match will generally last between 3 and 10 minutes. In the event of time running out, the winner is decided on points awarded during the match for manouvers such as passing through an opponent's defensive posture, taking an opponent to the ground, mounting an opponent or securing a position behind the opponent. For a full list of competitive BJJ rules and regulations consult the IBJJF website.



Why should I do BJJ?
Because it's fun. BJJ is also a great way to improve your fitness while doing something interesting and mentally engaing. Nobody is going to tell you that BJJ is as good at building muscle as picking heavy things up and putting them down again or as good at developing cardio as interval training, but it's certainly a lot more fun which in turn means you're probably going to stick with it. If you're a 5' waif of a girl (or on the edge of male and female), there are BJJ techniques for you. If you're 6'10" and so muscular (or fat) that you look like a sock stuffed with walnuts, there are BJJ techniques for you. If you want to defend yourself from potential threats or surprise attacks, BJJ has techniques for you. If you're under 16, there are junior classes you can attend until you're old enough to join the adults.



This looks rough. Am I going to get hurt?
Probably. You'll definitely have some sore muscles for the first few weeks or maybe even months of training. The worst injury you'll encounter under normal circumstances will be something in the order of a dislocated toe. It isn't uncommon for a pinkie toe to drag on the mat and pop out, but tape and ice packs fix everything. While the techniques are designed to dislocate or break joints and put people to sleep, this doesn't happen in training. It's your responsibility to tell your partner that you've had enough by tapping before you get injured and it's your partner's responsibility to respect that and let go as soon as you tap. As long as you're training in a decent school, you won't get end up with any severe injuries.

I want in. What do I need to know?
You can train with or without a gi and lots of people do both. To train with a gi you obviously need a gi and it will run you anywhere from $50 up to several hundred dollars. BJJ gis should be double-weave due to the fact that they're constantly being tugged, pulled, grabbed and wrapped around people's necks. Speak to your instructor when you get started and see what they recommend. Feel free to double check that advice with folks in the thread. If you're training without a gi, you just need a rash guard and a pair of board shorts or something similar. Again consult your instructor and see what they would prefer you to wear to their sessions. Some schools sell their own rash guards as part of their standard uniform.

The to get started is to check out schools in your area by calling them and inquiring as to whether or not they do free sessions for people who are looking to get started. If they do, go along and participate and see how you like it. Don't feel any obligation to sign up with them because they gave you a trial session. Check out each of the training centers in your area and see which one you feel most comfortable with. If for some reason they don't do introductory lessons, they're probably not worth your time anyway. BJJ will generally be more expensive than judo unless you're training with a college sports club or some other subsidized organisation, but it's not something that should be prohibitively expensive. Prices vary between regions and trainers, but as a baseline, something in the order of $35-$55 per week for group sessions is what you should be budgeting for.

The Gracie Academy website has a directory of some of the schools in the US and internationally as well as their pricing to give you an idea of what people are charging in your area. If you're not sure if a school you're thinking of training with is up to par, post a link in the thread and get some recommendations for good schools in your area.

If you've just started BJJ or you're looking for a more technical, in-depth explanation of BJJ's fundamentals, Stephan Kesting's Beginning BJJ is an awesome place to start.


Even people in their 90s can do BJJ!



Lt. Shiny-sides posted:

:siren::siren:Effort Post Incoming!!!:siren::siren:

I haven't included references, if you want them just ask.

A Shiny Guide to Conditioning

Here is the framework of what I do with my guys. I’m by no means an expert when it comes to physiology (just a meathead S&C coach) so don’t take this as gospel. In fact, I’m planning a major overhaul for the New Year. Once that is done and tested I’ll share my findings. Still, this has been used with Olympians and elite combat sport athletes with good results. This framework can be used by those of you just looking to improve their general fitness without aiming for competition. Just peak as you would for a comp and then take a little less time off before repeating the process.
The vast majority of my plans are altered versions of the blueprint laid out in Joel Jamieson’s book, “Ultimate MMA Conditioning”. I cannot recommend it enough. Probably the best book out there for simple clear conditioning advice. Below is a plan mainly focused on aerobic prep. In my opinion (differing from Jamieson) aerobic conditioning is the most important aspect of combat sports, as after about 30 seconds it is the key energy system used. I do train ATP/PCr and glycolytic pathways as well, but that is for another post.

Periodization

A big mistake that most people make about conditioning is to do one thing all the time for their training. Periodization is the process of splitting training into multiple periods, (get it!) of training each with a different focus. This allows for the improvement of multiple physical attributes over time while reducing the risk of overtraining.
In my experience training and coaching combat sports, I have seen primarily two schools of thought regarding conditioning and neither one follows anything close to intelligent periodization. The most common school of thought I have seen is the “just trash’em” conditioning program (all HIIT all the time). Most of the guys who do this have no idea what they want in themselves/their athletes or how to get those changes to occur. In response to that lack of understanding, they fall back on just working as hard as possible all the time. These are the guys who love the sledge hammers and duelling ropes, and feel that if you aren’t near vomiting you slacked off. Not to say I’m entirely against that kind of stuff, but it has its place which will get to that later. The constant beating that this kind of training produces is part of the reason you have so many injuries in certain camps in MMA. No matter how tough you are, nobody can take that much of a beating forever. Another big issue with just trash’em all HIIT all the time training is that over time your body will get use to the stimulus, and you will see diminishing returns.

The other school of thought is just a variation of the trash’em but instead of trashing the athlete with super high intensity conditioning they just go nuts with volume. These are your old school coaches telling you to run ten miles every day, then bag work for an hour, then sparring. This produces the same over work issues as the high intensity bros, just through too much volume. They also fail to train their athletes/themselves for the specific demands of combat sports, ie. preparing them for high intensity efforts. The one saving grace of the volume trash’em guys is that they tend to build up the volume overtime rather than the go hard out from day one like the high intensity trash’em bros. What both camps fail to understand is that by using a proper periodised plan you can build a safe program, which has room for long term improvement, and is specific to combat sports.

My plan goes from low to high intensity, high to low volume, and most important general to specific to the sport.

The Components

Central Adaptations
These are primarily training methods to improve aerobic capacity (how long can you go) and power (how hard you can go while maintaining in the aerobic zone) through adaptations to primarily the heart and vascular system. When performing this training methods I choose to use more general exercise (bikes, runs, swims, etc.) rather than specific exercises (drills, bag work, etc.) as the higher volume here can tend to lead to overuse injuries. Also the athlete is far enough away from competition that specificity isn’t a high priority.

Low Intensity Stead State (LISS) cardio – This can be anything from running, swimming, or performing a series of sport specific drills at low intensities. The key is to keep your heart rate fairly low, I recommend 140-160 beat per minutes (BPM), and train for long times, 30 to 90 minutes. The biggest benefit that LISS training gives over any other type of aerobic conditioning is that LISS is the only way to produce eccentric cardiac hypertrophy (ECH). ECH is the expansion of the left ventricle of the heart. This allows for the heart to fill with more blood each time it beats. While ECH is great, performing LISS also improves what could be called your general aerobic capacity through a host of other adaptations that I’m not going to get into now.

Tempo Intervals – This can be done on just about cardio machine or through drills just like LISS. Tempo intervals are performed by sprinting at 70-80% of your max speed for about 15 seconds. Then rest about one minute bringing your heart rate down. Repeat this 20 to 30 times. This is a great transition exercise from steady state to intervals. You still get some of the aerobic capacity benefits of LISS but also start transitioning to improving aerobic power production like what is seen in many forms of HIIT.

Vo2Max Intervals – I really prefer to do these on spin bikes as it is very easy to control the intensity. These are 4 intervals of 4 minutes on and 3 minutes off at a heart rate 90 to 95% of max. These guys are brutal but very effective. They provide a slew of benefits to the aerobic system primary of which is concentric cardiac hypertrophy (CCH). CCH is a growth in the thickness of the left ventricle walls. This is caused by high intensity work and allows the heart to eject more blood every time it pumps. These intervals combined with the previous LISS training result in a heart that can fill with more blood (ECH) and then empty it quickly and powerfully (CCH).

Peripheral Adaptations
The primary changes that occur in the muscles and peripheral systems of the body. Allowing for better oxygen use, increased ability to deal with waste products, and increased storage of fuels for performance. At this point I move my athletes to much more specific movements. This is in part because the volume is lower, but also because we want the adaptations to occur in the correct places specific to the sport, and to place demands on them that begin to simulate what they will see in the ring/cage. I tend to use a lot of bag work here, but you can really use anything, including battling ropes, as long as it somewhat simulates the sport.

30/30 Interval – Again I tend to do this either on a heavy bag alternating straight punches and hooks every round or using a kick pad. These are 30 second on 30 second off intervals. The 30 seconds on needs to be maximal throughout, as fast and hard as possible while maintaining technique. The 30 seconds off is a total rest. These are performed 12 times, then rest for 4 to 5 minutes, then do another 12, 30 seconds on 30 seconds off. That makes this a total of 24 minutes of work. Truthfully these guys kind of fall in between central and peripheral adaptation, but I group them in here because of the specificity to the sport.

15/15 Interval – Performed basically the same as the 30/30, these intervals are 15 seconds at max effort and then 15 seconds actively resting. This means that if you are on the bag you are still using good foot work, with hands up, throwing a couple combinations at 60-70% power. 7, 15/15 intervals are performed before a rest of 4 to 5 minutes and then another 7 are performed. Here is where we really into peripheral adaptations through improved lactate threshold of the muscles.

Tabata – Yes, I do use Tabatas with my guys. Mainly because of the time benefit as we near competition. It allows for continued gains and doesn’t take long so they can focus on what is important at that time, the fight. 20 Seconds on 10 seconds for 4 minutes, balls to the wall the whole time.

Putting It Together

Using the concepts of periodization it is pretty easy to use the methods listed to improve conditioning. Following the same order above you can go from high volume to low, low intensity to high, and general to specific. Most of the general adaptations take around six weeks to start occurring while the specific take a little less, around three or four weeks. I find that slow integration between each training modality is best. For example, build up to four LISS sessions a week before transferring to 3 times a week LISS and once a week Tempo, and so on. The general adaptations should be done about four times a week max whereas the peripheral adaptations only need a max of three times a week. The only exception being the Vo2max intervals which shouldn’t be done more than three times a week. Ideally my plan would look something like this:

About eight weeks of LISS building to Tempo, then two weeks to bring in Vo2max intervals, followed by four weeks of them. Transferring into 30/30 intervals for four weeks, 3 weeks of 15/15, and about two weeks of Tabata.
















:siren: :siren:


:siren::siren: :siren::siren:

Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Feb 4, 2014

Jabarto
Apr 7, 2007

I could do with your...assistance.
The link to the grappling thread doesn't work.

On that note, I think it's about time for me to start at the beginning with martial arts. I'm thinking about getting into boxing and freestyle wrestling, as I'm told they're good combat skills, and I found a gym not far from me that teaches that sort of thing. Does anyone know much about this place? It's in Fort Collins, CO.

If not, I think there are a few BJJ place nearby that got good reviews on Bullshido, but that would be a second preference at best.

Jaweeeblop
Nov 12, 2004

Any San Antonio martial arts goons in here? I haven't trained since I was in college, and I just moved to a new city where I don't know anyone. I feel the need to get active again, and martial arts was always an easy way to meet new people with similar interests, so I figure I might as well hop to it. I previously studied tae kwon do and hapkido, but those didn't really give me what I wanted so I'm looking for something new. I'm thinking muay thai would be fun but there's only 1 facility I can find in my area.

http://vongphet-muaythai-academy.com/muaythai/

I'm planning to drop by and check things out sometime soon, but if anyone has some other suggestions I'm open to them.

Zipperelli.
Apr 3, 2011



Nap Ghost
How about a write up on Krav Maga. I've seriously been considering trying to find a training facility here in Gainesville, FL but have been unlucky so far.

Winkle-Daddy
Mar 10, 2007

EZipperelli posted:

How about a write up on Krav Maga. I've seriously been considering trying to find a training facility here in Gainesville, FL but have been unlucky so far.

Doing a write up for Krav Maga has some unique challenges. Because it became trendy, a lot of places set up like a McDonald's franchise and the quality of training is about what you would expect. If you want to just hop in and start learning, most decent (and some bad) gyms will focus on three things with a beginner:

1. Combat conditioning
2. Mindset
3. Basic technique

Go to a place and observe what happens. You can get all three of these out of a sub par gym, but you may find that you outgrow that gym as soon as you start getting some of the fundamentals. I would highly recommend finding a gym that is affiliated with some kind of MMA training; mine is a Bas Rutten affiliate.

It would also be helpful to see how much hands on time the instructor gives each student and talk to the instructor about his other experience. Krav Maga is relatively new (compared to a lot of traditional MA's) and it's pretty common to have someone with a BJJ/Judo/Karate background. My instructor trained in BJJ and Judo before starting Krav. I would go sit in on a class, participate, if the first class feels an awful lot like boxing spending almost the entire time of working with you on fundamentals and all of the above I mentioned is true; it's probably going to be a good place to train at least for a year or so when you can re-evaluate the quality once you know more.

edit to add:

The three things I listed above our sort of a mantra for early krav students, but I just realized an outsider; with no context may not recognize what is meant by that.

Combat Conditioning - basically an intense cross-fit regiment. You will do very intense work outs. None of my previous MA experience even compares to what we do in Krav as a warm up. For reference, I'm referring mostly to the warm ups from Karate and TKD.

Mindset - This will be cultivated in the form of providing distractions. Flipping the lights on and off, blasting music, multiple attackers, breaking the rhythm of the class. Basically, prepare yourself for the distraction of the real world and focus on identifying and eliminating threats with all of that distraction going on.

Basic Technique - This is the most obvious when written; but not so obvious in practice. At it's core, Krav Maga was developed by taking a lot of other combat and sport MA's and keeping what worked and ditching the rest...with mixed success. At the early stages of learning you're going to do a lot of theory work. You'll be practicing your foot work, throwing jabs and a lot of shadow boxing. You'll throw punches repeatedly and rapidly until you never want to throw a punch again. You'll focus on one, maybe two kicks, two punches and defending against punches with a style that looks very similar to boxing. Krav Maga (while not free of criticism) prides itself in the separation of sport application from reality. This means that as a new level 1 student you will spend a lot of time learning to defend against untrained attacks. Hay makers, big wide hooks, and of course chokes from all over the place. It's important to defend against trained and untrained attacks, it's a considerable amount of foundation and it's the number one reason I see new students leave. They want to be a totally loving badass IDF guy after two months, but they don't want to put the time in on learning the basics.

I also forgot to mention; Krav Maga's focus is not ground fighting. However, even in a level one class, alarm bells should go off if you see zero grappling or ground fighting. Almost all street fights go to the ground and to not train in it is to disregard the basic tenant of what Krav Maga claims to be.

Others with experience in identifying what makes a good Krav Maga school versus a McDojo Krav franchise, please correct or add to what I've posted.

Winkle-Daddy fucked around with this message at 20:29 on May 3, 2011

Rikthor
Sep 28, 2008

EZipperelli posted:

How about a write up on Krav Maga. I've seriously been considering trying to find a training facility here in Gainesville, FL but have been unlucky so far.

I can't speak for where you live at but generally a good Krav Maga school will most likely be registered with the Krav Maga Association of America. That seems to be the largest organization with it being an extension of the founder of Krav Maga for the US. The school I help teach Ju-jitsu at is registered with them for their Krav Maga instructors and are fairly good dudes. Evidently there it takes a bit to get registered with the organization so its not like you can just pay $200 and be a Krav Maga school and be recognized by them.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
I C/Ped that Krav Maga into the OP, as well as fixing the links. I'll add as many write ups as people want to write.

G-Mawwwwwww
Jan 31, 2003

My LPth are Hot Garbage
Biscuit Hider

Winkle-Daddy posted:

Go to a place and observe what happens. You can get all three of these out of a sub par gym, but you may find that you outgrow that gym as soon as you start getting some of the fundamentals. I would highly recommend finding a gym that is affiliated with some kind of MMA training; mine is a Bas Rutten affiliate.

At the very least, you want a Fit to Fight class at the gym. That certification states the instructor is a krav instructor certified to teach MMA techniques. Usually this is your introduction to sparring. I don't know how it works at other gyms but one of the guys at my gym used to fight competitively in MMA, so he brings in low level pros to come fight with us.


quote:

Combat Conditioning - basically an intense cross-fit regiment. You will do very intense work outs. None of my previous MA experience even compares to what we do in Krav as a warm up. For reference, I'm referring mostly to the warm ups from Karate and TKD.

Some of the warmups are pretty good. However, some gyms offer hour-long combative conditioning classes. Some of them are ripped from crossfit/P90X. Some of them are just the horrible things the instructors want you to do. Running with weights in your hands while someone else holds onto you and tries to hold you back via a belt is one of the worst cardio exercises I've ever done.

quote:

Mindset - This will be cultivated in the form of providing distractions. Flipping the lights on and off, blasting music, multiple attackers, breaking the rhythm of the class. Basically, prepare yourself for the distraction of the real world and focus on identifying and eliminating threats with all of that distraction going on.

I've also seen some gyms try and cultivate ferocity in low levels-- just being able to channel all that nervous energy. Lots of unrestrained striking.

quote:

Others with experience in identifying what makes a good Krav Maga school versus a McDojo Krav franchise, please correct or add to what I've posted.

Generally you want to know what system they're affiliated with. Krav Maga Worldwide's pretty reputable. So is Bas Ruten's system.

Winkle-Daddy
Mar 10, 2007

CaptainScraps posted:

At the very least, you want a Fit to Fight class at the gym. That certification states the instructor is a krav instructor certified to teach MMA techniques. Usually this is your introduction to sparring. I don't know how it works at other gyms but one of the guys at my gym used to fight competitively in MMA, so he brings in low level pros to come fight with us.

Some of the warmups are pretty good. However, some gyms offer hour-long combative conditioning classes. Some of them are ripped from crossfit/P90X. Some of them are just the horrible things the instructors want you to do. Running with weights in your hands while someone else holds onto you and tries to hold you back via a belt is one of the worst cardio exercises I've ever done.

Oh yeah, the option should be there to take a class dedicated to being fit. I was speaking very specifically that regardless of what else is available, you get a lot more out of your training if you had your rear end kicked in warm ups already. Pushing through that pain can be a powerful teaching tool when done right.

CaptainScraps posted:

I've also seen some gyms try and cultivate ferocity in low levels-- just being able to channel all that nervous energy. Lots of unrestrained striking.

For sure; I just want to make sure (and I should have state this to begin with) that mindset does not mean any kind of mystic bullshido crap. It's a very real and tangible thing that is being trained.

CaptainScraps posted:

Generally you want to know what system they're affiliated with. Krav Maga Worldwide's pretty reputable. So is Bas Ruten's system.

This is truth and should also be added to any evolving section on KM in the OP.

Zipperelli.
Apr 3, 2011



Nap Ghost
Thanks for the info guys, I've only found one gym around Gainesville that teaches KM and the 'reviews' of it were not positive.

quote:

Alex ‎ - Feb 21, 2011
I went to this school a few times for Krav Maga lessons. I have a strong background in Krav Maga, and I feel that I am suited to make this assertion: The classes that I took held little practical value. The techniques were not taught correctly. What I was taught was not Krav Maga, but some gross perversion of the name of Krav Maga being attached to a cardio-kickboxing, sporty "fighting" style. The only pro was that it was a decent work out. 2/5 stars

http://www.karateamerica.com/

Soooo, it seems that I should continue my search. I do appreciate the help though.

KingColliwog
May 15, 2003

Let's go droogs
This thread title from a few pages back in the old thread was better "Ask / Tell: The Martial Arts Thread: I was winning the fight until I died" :colbert:

nice work on the OP

Bohemian Nights
Jul 14, 2006

When I wake up,
I look into the mirror
I can see a clearer, vision
I should start living today
Clapping Larry
Great OP! Should be easier for newcomers to navigate for a couple of months.

Internetjack
Sep 15, 2007

oh god how did this get here i am not good with computers
Top Cop
A few comments on Aikido; I trained in it for four years back in my college days. It was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

I like how Aikido was classified in the OP, a performance discipline.

In four years, training 2-3 days a week, I never learned to be an rear end-kicking machine; nor did I ever want to be one.
What I did learn though was more of a philosophy, a way of being and walking through life. There was plenty of cool poo poo and exercise too.

What I learned was breathing, walking, being calm in mind and body, relaxing, and facing conflict with love in your heart. These were lessons I could take off the mat, into my every day life. These are lessons that have served me in work, friendships, and confrontations for the last 16 years. That is why I love Aikido. I still do my turning exercises in the living room to this day.

The best advice I can offer anyone that is looking to pursue a martial art, is to be humble. Subject yourself sincerely to what the teacher and school is offering. Don't judge, don't critique. It may take years for the lessons to make sense. If you're not comfortable with what you are submitting to, then maybe it is not the school or discipline that is appropriate for you. Feel free to shop around. There are lots of arts, schools, and teachers out there. Find one that suits what you are looking for.

Edit: Xguard86, thanks for considering my words for addition to the OP and adding them. When someone wants to learn a MA there can be a thousand different reasons, and I'm glad to see the thread will gladly regard them all. And high-fives to any aikidoka that show up in the thread.

Internetjack fucked around with this message at 17:14 on May 5, 2011

Tambreet
Nov 28, 2006

Ninja Platypus
Muldoon

Internetjack posted:

A few comments on Aikido; I trained in it for four years back in my college days. It was one of the best things I ever did for myself.

I like how Aikido was classified in the OP, a performance discipline.

In four years, training 2-3 days a week, I never learned to be an rear end-kicking machine; nor did I ever want to be one.
What I did learn though was more of a philosophy, a way of being and walking through life. There was plenty of cool poo poo and exercise too.

What I learned was breathing, walking, being calm in mind and body, relaxing, and facing conflict with love in your heart. These were lessons I could take off the mat, into my every day life. These are lessons that have served me in work, friendships, and confrontations for the last 16 years. That is why I love Aikido. I still do my turning exercises in the living room to this day.


This is extremely well said. I've been doing Aikido for about 5 years and this is exactly what I've gotten out of it and why I continue to train. And it's nice to see a little Aikido love in this thread.

Smegmatron
Apr 23, 2003

I hate to advocate emptyquoting or shitposting to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
Just want to get this onto the first page because it's a really handy resource for people who are getting destroyed in their first month or two of BJJ classes and starting to get disheartened*: http://www.beginningbjj.com/

It might even be worth adding to the OP for people who want a more in-depth idea of what BJJ is about than an FAQ can give before committing to it.


*This does not at all describe me today after being on the wrong end of, in order; a gogoplata (the first step of which was to apply heel to face), an armbar, a rear naked choke, a kimura, a triangle and one more armbar to rub it in. In 15 minutes :smith:

Nierbo
Dec 5, 2010

sup brah?
Thats a really good link, thankyou. I've been thinking about changing from Judo to BJJ because I find I have more interest in the ground work and we don't exactly do much any more, especially as a comp is coming up. I probably won't be able to due to financial restrictions but its always in the back of my mind.
On another good note, me and one other white belt got an hour and a half of private coaching with a 6th degree Judo black belt (he's the father of our current instructor). Thats two amazing sessions in a row now. He's the former Australian champion and Oceania champion and was one of our reps to the world championships. He's done so much for the sport of Judo in Aus, I can't believe they only charge 5 dollars per lesson. In an effort to show my appreciation I've volunteered to help clean the whole dojo on the weekend. It almost seems silly to want to walk away from that kind of amazing instruction but I've really got the BJJ itch. Maybe I'll leave Judo when/if all these awesome instructors go elsewhere.
And thanks to everyone who answered all of my silly questions in the previous thread.

e: Oh yeah, I like the op too. You always have good contributions xguard.

Nierbo fucked around with this message at 15:22 on May 4, 2011

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

KingColliwog posted:

This thread title from a few pages back in the old thread was better "Ask / Tell: The Martial Arts Thread: I was winning the fight until I died" :colbert:

nice work on the OP

I thought about making it that, but then I thought about how it would sound if you didn't know about the story that preceded the quote.

I C/Ped the aikido quote into the OP because I think it's maybe the best and most honest description of Aikido I've read on the internet. We have that really good bjj writeup in the last thread, but I can't C/P it with all the urls and images intact due to quotes.

Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 15:24 on May 4, 2011

Syphilis Fish
Apr 27, 2006

Nierbo posted:

Thats a really good link, thankyou. I've been thinking about changing from Judo to BJJ because I find I have more interest in the ground work and we don't exactly do much any more, especially as a comp is coming up. I probably won't be able to due to financial restrictions but its always in the back of my mind.
On another good note, me and one other white belt got an hour and a half of private coaching with a 6th degree Judo black belt (he's the father of our current instructor). Thats two amazing sessions in a row now. He's the former Australian champion and Oceania champion and was one of our reps to the world championships. He's done so much for the sport of Judo in Aus, I can't believe they only charge 5 dollars per lesson. In an effort to show my appreciation I've volunteered to help clean the whole dojo on the weekend. It almost seems silly to want to walk away from that kind of amazing instruction but I've really got the BJJ itch. Maybe I'll leave Judo when/if all these awesome instructors go elsewhere.
And thanks to everyone who answered all of my silly questions in the previous thread.

e: Oh yeah, I like the op too. You always have good contributions xguard.

Quality judo is better than lovely BJJ. But it also depends on the other people in class; are they any good/challange for you? This is your first Martial Art, so just stick with it the one for awhile so you can get a sense how things go in this world of martial arts.

Stabbing Spork
Apr 9, 2006
I started at a muay thai class a few weeks ago, and just got some gloves and wraps. I watched a couple different youtube videos on wrapping your hands and tried a few different methods, but I'm not sure which one is the best. Any suggestions on the best way to wrap my hands?

niethan
Nov 22, 2005

Don't be scared, homie!
It's easiest to ask your coach or experienced costudents to show you in real life rather then on the internet.

Winkle-Daddy
Mar 10, 2007

EZipperelli posted:

Thanks for the info guys, I've only found one gym around Gainesville that teaches KM and the 'reviews' of it were not positive.


http://www.karateamerica.com/

Soooo, it seems that I should continue my search. I do appreciate the help though.

If you want to take Krav Maga and it's the only place near you; they should let you go take a trial class. The review could go either way, the techniques may very well have been taught incorrectly but there is another possibility...

On the internet you get all kinds of "mental black belts." We all know the type; the guy (or girl) who spends hours reading the theory, the history, so forth and so on and when they go in it's not what they expect it to be. They expected that they would be doing the techniques they saw some world class practitioner do on youtube. They have no grasp of anything fundamental and then have an over inflated sense of ego about what they should be learning; that they know better then the instructor.

I'm not saying that's the case, but it's just a fact of the culture. Level 1 Krav in every place I've observed classes has spent a lot of time on a lot of cardio and a lot of very basic techniques repeatedly (combat conditioning and basic technique). Level 2 ramps up the intensity when it comes to the complexity of a technique. Though, by contrast to say Aikido, the complexity pales in comparison for most techniques (remember, Krav Maga was developed to be taught very quickly in a battlefield situation, so it simply cannot train techniques that take years to learn. Years to master yes, not years to learn).

Because of this, I can totally see where a perfectly fine gym could get a bad review from an arm chair mental black belt.

Go take a trial class, talk to the instructor, make sure they're affiliated with Krav Maga Worldwide. If the guy was right and the class seems impractical, all you've lost is an hour and a half or so of your time and you've learned more about what you're looking for. Ideally, if you can go observe a higher level class, do that first, then take a trial class with the level 1 group. If you see that fundamentals are being trained and you can see how they're expanded on this guy was full of poo poo. But it's the internet, so who knows.

Zipperelli.
Apr 3, 2011



Nap Ghost

Winkle-Daddy posted:

:words:

Perfect. I've been on the phone with the instructor and have a day to go in and see exactly whats up. Thanks for the input guys... Will report on happenings.

mewse
May 2, 2006

Boxing

Most people don't know poo poo about boxing.
  • In this thread, you can ask any general questions about boxing and how it compares to the other martial arts. There is a lot of equipment shared between boxing and other striking disciplines, so asking "are these gloves crappy?" in this thread is perfectly fine.
  • W&W has a boxing training thread where you can discuss training boxing specifically. It gets less traffic than this thread but boxing culture can be a bit different sometimes.
  • The boxing thread in the punchsport pagoda is where you'll go if you'd like to discuss fights as a spectator rather than a participant.

mewse fucked around with this message at 04:42 on May 5, 2011

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

actually, yeah, I am a little mad
Does it make sense to still link the old thread in the OP, for history purposes?

Neurosis
Jun 10, 2003
Fallen Rib
Not to wrest this thread back to minor victories rather than important information, but today I learnt my range for shooting and hit the next 7/8 takedowns, some of whom were against guys doing BJJ far longer than me, and it ruled. And I have been garbage at takedowns in the last two years.

These small improvements are why everyone should do BJJ or wrestling. They're just so rewarding. :)

fawker
Feb 1, 2008

ARMBAR!
I just discovered that theres actually a shoot wrestling gym near where I live.

http://www.grappling.ca/

They also have boxing, which I would LOVE to do and their hours are actually better for me. Apparently, they are the "National Headquarters" of Shoot Wrestling Canada. Has anyone here heard of Ron Beer before? My googling only shows stuff that related to this school.

I currently do BJJ, which I love and am happy with, but if this other gym isnt too expensive, ill probably end up going to both places.

Are techniques learned in shoot wrestling applicable to BJJ and vice-versa?

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

mewse posted:

Boxing

Most people don't know poo poo about boxing.
  • In this thread, you can ask any general questions about boxing and how it compares to the other martial arts. There is a lot of equipment shared between boxing and other striking disciplines, so asking "are these gloves crappy?" in this thread is perfectly fine.
  • W&W has a boxing training thread where you can discuss training boxing specifically. It gets less traffic than this thread but boxing culture can be a bit different sometimes.
  • The boxing thread in the punchsport pagoda is where you'll go if you'd like to discuss fights as a spectator rather than a participant.

This is good. Punching people is good(inside a gym). Thank you for saving me time as I prob would have written 1000 million words.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"
added the boxing writeup. Glad everyone is happy with the OP.

Legit Businessman
Sep 2, 2007


From the last thread:

Smegmatron posted:

It's surprisingly hard to find a video with A) Girls B) the person filming not screaming into the camera's mic C) decent technique being shown clearly from a good angle and D) decent picture quality.

You might want to look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijRBmQ994yo at the very least, it's one technique, done very well.

KingColliwog
May 15, 2003

Let's go droogs

Drewjitsu posted:

From the last thread:


You might want to look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijRBmQ994yo at the very least, it's one technique, done very well.

I'd marry that girl. That was great

Legit Businessman
Sep 2, 2007


KingColliwog posted:

I'd marry that girl. That was great

I don't know what her Husband/Black Belt Coach would think though. :v:

mewse
May 2, 2006

KidDynamite posted:

This is good. Punching people is good(inside a gym). Thank you for saving me time as I prob would have written 1000 million words.

Yeah I figured everyone knows what boxing is, and if they have esoteric questions they can just ask, but it took me months before I discovered the training thread in W&W.

Best way to learn is to go to a gym, obv

NPR Journalizard
Feb 14, 2008

I have heard a rumor that boxers have some of the best punches around, because thats all they do. Is that true?

Pooned
Dec 28, 2005

Eye contact counters everything
Yes, that is what usually happens when a group of people focus on something for generations. Boxer has the best punches, wrestlers the best takedowns, Grapplers the best submissions etc.

Paul Pot
Mar 4, 2010

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Frogmanv2 posted:

I have heard a rumor that boxers have some of the best punches around, because thats all they do. Is that true?

myth, i've never seen a boxer pull off as many superman punches as gsp

Paul Pot
Mar 4, 2010

by Y Kant Ozma Post

Pooned posted:

Yes, that is what usually happens when a group of people focus on something for generations. Boxer has the best punches, wrestlers the best takedowns, Grapplers the best submissions etc.

tkd doesn't have the best kicks because it's fake fighting and not included in the op (petition to delete aikido and savate for unseemly pants)

artard
Sep 11, 2001
Savate owns bro

Smegmatron
Apr 23, 2003

I hate to advocate emptyquoting or shitposting to anyone, but they've always worked for me.

Drewjitsu posted:

From the last thread:


You might want to look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijRBmQ994yo at the very least, it's one technique, done very well.

That owns hard but BJJ newbies reading A/T probably aren't the best group to be encouraging into flying armbars. If we're going to do that, I'd put in a gif of Garza's flying triangle at UFC 129.

P.S XGuard put the BJJ writeup in the last thread into the second post in this one. It's probably too long for the first post.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Death Bucket
Jul 19, 2001
Elite member of the Grammar Nazi Squad that

fawker posted:

They also have boxing, which I would LOVE to do and their hours are actually better for me. Apparently, they are the "National Headquarters" of Shoot Wrestling Canada. Has anyone here heard of Ron Beer before? My googling only shows stuff that related to this school.

I currently do BJJ, which I love and am happy with, but if this other gym isnt too expensive, ill probably end up going to both places.

Are techniques learned in shoot wrestling applicable to BJJ and vice-versa?
Don't know anything about him, but if his background checks out, you're probably looking at some neat leglocks, neck cranks, rides (some useful, some pretty dumb) and hopefully a lot of takedown-to-submission transitions and maybe some cool submission chains. If you have a decent BJJ background, you should probably be able to do a week or two and figure out if the guy knows what he's talking about. Otherwise you could try asking the guy about his lineage and emailing Jake Shannon. If the dude is legit, Shannon probably at least knows who he is, though you might get a snide response, because as retarded as BJJ politics is, catch politics is even worse. From his site though, it looks like he might be an amateur wrestler who knows some judo stuff and put them together and calls it 'shoot wrestling,' so he might not be on Shannon's radar even if he knows his stuff.

  • Locked thread