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Ha alright, after I left there I spent the rest of our vacation limping around Manhattan. I think there was a blood bruise under the skin on my calf and the blood drained down to my foot and my heel was purple for 2-3 days. Good times. edit: and I'm surprised the heat's not working because it was like a sauna when I visited Grandmaster.flv fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 20:43
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Spotted something odd on my training group's private chat, some slight ribbing between guys about competing and not competing. It seemed quite serious on one side. People were arguing about whether foot looks should be studied, Guy A said nah we don't train them, Guy B said we should (I agree btw). Guy A then said something like, 'if you'd ever competed or had any inclination to compete you'd know what it takes to win', indicating he knows ways to win, aside from footlocks, so he doesn't need to study them. Everyone in my gym is very friendly towards each other & I've never noticed any hostility against people who don't compete, so this struck me as odd. I get on well with all my team mates & do compete so I dunno if I just haven't witnessed any sort of derision, at least in my direction. What's the atmosphere like where you are? Is there a divide? Share! I care.
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Feb 5, 2016 12:59
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ICHIBAHN posted:Spotted something odd on my training group's private chat, some slight ribbing between guys about competing and not competing. It seemed quite serious on one side. People were arguing about whether foot looks should be studied, Guy A said nah we don't train them, Guy B said we should (I agree btw). Guy A then said something like, 'if you'd ever competed or had any inclination to compete you'd know what it takes to win', indicating he knows ways to win, aside from footlocks, so he doesn't need to study them. When it comes to social media, HEMA is loving awful. I've had to remove myself from a bunch of online groups because people get super aggressive over the most inane things, like how test cutting is bad because it's borrowed from the Japanese. HEMA is a bit unique in that it's a newer practiced martial art, and it attracts a lot of socially awkward nerds. There are lots of little divides (usually school-to-school) that usually gets settled at tournaments. My school has some beef of its own with a school from New England. The issue we have is that at a tournament of theirs in 2014 they changed the rules halfway through and it pushed one of their (OK but not so great) fighters to the finals while knocking out several other fighters who performed better. Also they were donated a prize sword worth $800 and instead of giving it to the winner of the cutting tournament, they kept it for themselves.
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Feb 5, 2016 14:10
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Sorry, in my case it's BJJ but aye I'm sure it could happen in the HEMA community. Don't know much about that.
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Feb 5, 2016 14:40
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HEMA is pretty odd regarding competition, since it's ~too dangerous to practice~ almost by definition (what with the swords and all) but tournaments are growing more and more popular anyway. Sometimes it seems there's sort of a split between people who don't consider tournament fighting a very good representation of ~real swordsmanship~ and... Well, people don't consider tournament fighting a very good representation of real swordsmanship, but find it a fun and useful thing to do. 
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Feb 5, 2016 15:44
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That just sounds the same as martial artists who say their art is too deadly to practice.
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Feb 5, 2016 17:37
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I saw a picture on face book that said something along the lines of "Wingchun ineffective? Tell that to the first and second world militaries and police forces that use it?". That can't be right right? I dunno anything about LEO but my brother went army and he said they showed him really really basic boxing and really really ugly Bjj stuff. Is there some truth to this? Are there really some really stupid LEO and Mil departments paying for Wingchun lessons?
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Feb 5, 2016 19:16
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The realm of "well my martial art is effective because it's taught to whatever random elite unit I learned from Call of Duty" is probably one you want to avoid.
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Feb 5, 2016 19:33
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KildarX posted:I saw a picture on face book that said something along the lines of "Wingchun ineffective? Tell that to the first and second world militaries and police forces that use it?". That can't be right right? I dunno anything about LEO but my brother went army and he said they showed him really really basic boxing and really really ugly Bjj stuff. Is there some truth to this? Are there really some really stupid LEO and Mil departments paying for Wingchun lessons? There was a Special Forces Bullshido craze in the 90s at the same time MMA was becoming well-known, and this stuff was everywhere.
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Feb 5, 2016 20:02
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Siivola posted:HEMA is pretty odd regarding competition, since it's ~too dangerous to practice~ almost by definition (what with the swords and all) but tournaments are growing more and more popular anyway. Sometimes it seems there's sort of a split between people who don't consider tournament fighting a very good representation of ~real swordsmanship~ and... Well, people don't consider tournament fighting a very good representation of real swordsmanship, but find it a fun and useful thing to do. Yeah, sportification is a big issue in a lot of schools. Some teach to the tune of longsword fencing being a sport, others teach it to the tune of being a martial art. The way I see it, tournaments are as accurate a metric we're going to get to determine someone being good at fencing, and the rules (at least the US rules) are becoming better at weeding out the ability to game the system. Ultimately you want to hit to cut, and avoid being hit. And the LP rules are pretty good in that regard.
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Feb 5, 2016 20:21
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What's the armor situation with live sword sparring? In what I've seen, there's not a lot of armor/padding on the legs. Are those such disadvantageous spots that they're simply not targeted, even if there's no restriction? Is there a restriction? In kickboxing, if two sparring partners are grossly mismatched, the better guy can goof around and get some risky/dumb moves to work. I've seen the karate kid sweep-the-leg happen. The danger in a mismatch seems far far higher with weapons. Like if you went for the lower leg and the other guy didn't have the right response ready. Does more armor add to the liveness of the sparring? Or does it encourage a mentality where taking a hit would be ok?
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Feb 5, 2016 20:28
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In the rulesets I remember, legs are fair game and shin guards and kneepads are required. Many people also wear puncture-resistant fencing knickers, often even padded ones. The geometry makes it so that you have to uncover your head if you go for the legs but there's always one or two guys who try one-handed sweeps into the legs. The protective equipment makes sparring livelier, for certain. I personally wouldn't dare do completely free fencing without all the padding, and the padding also lets you pull your blows less.
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Feb 5, 2016 21:23
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Halloween Jack posted:I don't know exactly how it works, but before the Marines officially established LINE and MCMAP and the Army officially established Combatives, many different, individual military units have practiced different martial arts. If you walk into a military surplus store it's likely you can find an official "hand to hand combat manual" that's karate or tae kwon do or who knows what. Again, I'm not sure exactly how it gets established, but I assume an officer with martial arts experience usually initiates these things. You can find plenty of guys touting their stuff as the Official Special Forces Martial Art because they did short-term training for a particular unit once upon of time. And of course, lots of martial arts teachers would love to give free classes to Special Forces soldiers so that they can use it to market themselves. (SCARS, the most hilariously awful martial art ever, has its rep because its founder was attached to a SEAL unit and they used his stuff because it was considered better than nothing.) BAM I break your leg
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Feb 5, 2016 21:52
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Siivola posted:In the rulesets I remember, legs are fair game and shin guards and kneepads are required. quote:The protective equipment makes sparring livelier, for certain. I personally wouldn't dare do completely free fencing without all the padding, and the padding also lets you pull your blows less.
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Feb 5, 2016 21:52
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kimbo305 posted:What's the armor situation with live sword sparring? In what I've seen, there's not a lot of armor/padding on the legs. Are those such disadvantageous spots that they're simply not targeted, even if there's no restriction? Is there a restriction? Minimum for most tournaments is a fencing mask with back of the head protection, a padded fencing jacket, groin protection (for men), throat protection, gloves (lacrosse at a minimum), knee and shin protection. There are more options available (and some tournaments require more) and it really depends on how well protected you want to be (I'm of the opinion that less = more). Legs are a valid target, though body shots/head shots/upper openings (neck and collar bone) are considered more valuable since damage to those respective areas is more likely to be "lethal" (in regards to using real swords). However, legs are generally harder to hit simply because of the geometry involved. There's a move called the geisling (sp?) that is essentially a quick one-handed swipe to the shin/knee, but it's very hard to hit with (let alone hit with the edge), and it leaves you in an undefended position as you have to bring the sword waaay back to get into a proper guard. Kind of a high risk - low reward situation, but I've seen tournaments won with it (where you just need that one last point to make or break a tie). I've seen some tournaments restrict leg hits, but generally people have better gear nowadays and it's becoming less of an issue. Hands used to be restricted in some circles because there was literally no hand protection outside of expensive gauntlets or lacrosse gloves, but hands are a completely valid target and are written about extensively. Plus the level of gear has increased dramatically in the past three or four years, so no one should be lacking proper hand protection. There is absolutely an issue with some people fighting as if they're completely protected, and it usually leads to double kills (both people hit simultaneously or within the same tempo) and a lot of more modern rule sets are trying to combat this by making double kills either cost nothing (a wash) or in the US championship's case, three double kills in a match leads to both fighters losing said match. The thing with weapons is that it's really, REALLY easy to kill anyone, even someone very well-trained in said weapon, if you have no self-preservation. It's said that this attributed to the strength and prowess of certain Samurai clans, who trained to rush the enemy, go for the first strike, and then either died and took the enemy out with them, or killed the enemy and continued rampaging across the battlefield. Now I'm not sure if the gear itself leads to feeling protected, or if it's another set of issues entirely, but I imagine gear does make it easier. That being said, the gear doesn't stop you from getting hurt or feeling hits, it just prevents you from breaking bones and dying. kimbo305 posted:Like soccer shinguards? I can't imagine a kickboxing shin guard doing much against a dull blade. There is some purpose-built equipment, but I'm a fan of soccer shinguards since they're low profile and cheap, and I use a pair of jointed military knee pads which protects the upper thigh and side of the knee.
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Feb 5, 2016 21:59
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Verisimilidude posted:Minimum for most tournaments is a fencing mask with back of the head protection, a padded fencing jacket, groin protection (for men), throat protection, gloves (lacrosse at a minimum), knee and shin protection. There are more options available (and some tournaments require more) and it really depends on how well protected you want to be (I'm of the opinion that less = more). Legs are a valid target, though body shots/head shots/upper openings (neck and collar bone) are considered more valuable since damage to those respective areas is more likely to be "lethal" (in regards to using real swords). However, legs are generally harder to hit simply because of the geometry involved. There's a move called the geisling (sp?) that is essentially a quick one-handed swipe to the shin/knee, but it's very hard to hit with (let alone hit with the edge), and it leaves you in an undefended position as you have to bring the sword waaay back to get into a proper guard. Kind of a high risk - low reward situation, but I've seen tournaments won with it (where you just need that one last point to make or break a tie). I've seen some tournaments restrict leg hits, but generally people have better gear nowadays and it's becoming less of an issue. Hands used to be restricted in some circles because there was literally no hand protection outside of expensive gauntlets or lacrosse gloves, but hands are a completely valid target and are written about extensively. Plus the level of gear has increased dramatically in the past three or four years, so no one should be lacking proper hand protection. Sounds like bullshit, I'd imagine that most combat was done in formations and had basically nothing to do with individual dueling skill.
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Feb 5, 2016 22:04
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Sounds like bullshit, I'd imagine that most combat was done in formations and had basically nothing to do with individual dueling skill. My Understanding is most HEMA stuff is based off of books about 1vs1 dueling. There are reenactors that do group battle stuff, but a lot of it is shield walls with stabbing.
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Feb 5, 2016 22:18
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Yep there are plenty of Early Modern and Medieval fencing manuals that serve as the basis for this stuff. Arguing about whether it's "real battlefield combat" is analogous to some goober saying "yeah well boxing doesn't work on the streets..." Think of it as heavy-blade fencing.
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Feb 5, 2016 22:22
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Sounds like bullshit, I'd imagine that most combat was done in formations and had basically nothing to do with individual dueling skill. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigen-ry%C5%AB It's about all I can offer on the subject, but it was a thing.
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Feb 5, 2016 22:25
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Verisimilidude posted:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigen-ry%C5%AB Founded in 1647, 50 years into the longest period of sustained peace in Japanese history.  Peace did weird things to Japan. I think HEMA stuff is cool but tourney organizers should sit down and think about what their rules are encouraging and what they want.* I think discouraging double kills is good (since that'd be sort of useless to a 'Historical' society), but likewise I think it'd make sense to allocate points more or less independent of location, since someone who has had their leg lopped off is about as incapacitated as one with a sword in their chest. Now what would be fun is tournament rules that simulated armored contests. Start with swords, end with knifey grappling. *Note, not 'what is correct,' since anyone should feel free to organize their own tourney if they disagree. the JJ fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Feb 5, 2016 |
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Feb 5, 2016 22:34
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I personally think the main issue with double hits is that the rules reward playing aggressively. A common rule is that in the case of double hit, the higher-scoring hit is awarded the hits' difference in points. So if one player attacks the head (2 points) and the other guy goes for the exposed arms (only 1 point), the guy hitting the head comes out one point, er, ahead. Of course, it doesn't hurt that getting hit is not that dangerous, so that "oh poo poo I'm being punched" instinct is certainly missing. And, well, it's a very young sport too. The top players are getting pretty good at staying safe, so it seems it's also a matter of experience. Incidentally and interestingly, some rulesets actually award more points for legs exactly because they're more difficult a target. Edit: Oh! Speaking of HEMA gear (and less being more ) could anyone recommend affordable grappling tights that I might find in Finland? Fencing knickers are alright, but I think a padded jacket and a nice pair of tights would cut a properly medievalesque figure. (Not actually a joke question.) Siivola fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Feb 5, 2016 |
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Feb 5, 2016 22:39
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Siivola posted:Of course, it doesn't hurt that getting hit is not that dangerous, so that "oh poo poo I'm being punched" instinct is certainly missing. Really? Getting clanged on the fencing helmet hurts less than a right hook to the helmet?
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Feb 6, 2016 01:19
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the JJ posted:Founded in 1647, 50 years into the longest period of sustained peace in Japanese history. I can agree with this. If I had to fight in a duel I'd absolutely play things as safely as possible and go for hand hits when I could, as they're both the closest target and a (in my opinion) valuable target. I think an issue with this is an artificial one, where people are worried that fencing matches would turn into pussy-footed hand sniping contests. So in order to bring the more detailed techniques out, people artificially weigh certain targets over others. I'm not sure if there's a right answer, but I can't deny that the fencing under these types of rule sets is both more technical and dynamic. Also full-armored fighting (harnishfechten) is a thing and it owns. It's different from the Armored Combat League stuff that's becoming mainstream.
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Feb 6, 2016 01:59
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Verisimilidude posted:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigen-ry%C5%AB The main battlefield weapon was the spear. The sword was considered a side-arm. More soldiers were killed by stones (from slings) than from swords on the battlefield.
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Feb 6, 2016 05:30
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Wasn't Musashi knocked out by a rock in his only battle?
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Feb 6, 2016 08:17
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kimbo305 posted:Really? Getting clanged on the fencing helmet hurts less than a right hook to the helmet? Of course, I haven't been hit with a properly heavy blow to the mask yet (or boxed enough to get used to being punched, I suppose) so I might be talking out of my rear end. I might revise my opinion after I walk face-first into a speedy thrust.
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Feb 6, 2016 08:25
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Siivola posted:I meant to compare a clang on the helmet with getting jabbed in the unprotected face with a boxing glove. Maybe I'm just not comfortable with striking sports, but I feel like even a fairly light punch is somehow more... Not physically uncomfortable, but too close to my face for comfort? Even if it doesn't hurt I don't want to get punched, but I'm fine with getting banged on the mask with all sorts of things. I did some kali sparring with a kali-face mask helmet thingy once. Getting punched in the mask is less physically traumatic, but it feels like your brain gets sloshed against your skull, especially taking a stick shot up the mask. Getting punched in the face sucks too, just in a different way. Honestly, I'm irrationally more afraid of getting my nose broken than a concussion. So v  v
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Feb 6, 2016 23:09
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What sort of home practice can I do for judo between club meetings? Breakfalls seem prohibited since I'm in a fourth floor apartment, and it seems like most things in judo requires a partner to practice.
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Feb 7, 2016 16:11
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Cephas posted:What sort of home practice can I do for judo between club meetings? Breakfalls seem prohibited since I'm in a fourth floor apartment, and it seems like most things in judo requires a partner to practice. You can put together a good routine from these two pages: Start Bodyweight. Strength training for Judo. Doing things like gi chin ups and belt horizontal pulls adds a nice judo twist to things while improving your grip strength. Also go get a bicycle inner tube and start doing these.
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Feb 7, 2016 17:03
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Cephas posted:What sort of home practice can I do for judo between club meetings? Breakfalls seem prohibited since I'm in a fourth floor apartment, and it seems like most things in judo requires a partner to practice. I sometimes do shadow uchikomi and/or shadow kata. And two of the throws that I was particularly practicing this way have actually improved quite a bit. Anecdotal, but 
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Feb 7, 2016 18:44
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Cephas posted:What sort of home practice can I do for judo between club meetings? Breakfalls seem prohibited since I'm in a fourth floor apartment, and it seems like most things in judo requires a partner to practice. Get bands
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Feb 7, 2016 23:46
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hi liter posted:Get bands Practicing uchi-komis with bands is awesome. It definitely gets you better at the basics of the entry and if you get good bands it's a great workout.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:20
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Siivola posted:Edit: Oh! Speaking of HEMA gear (and less being more Grappling tights you say? I don't know about affordable but I'll keep posting these until someone buys a pair: http://kamppailuvaruste.fi/product_info.php/cPath/107/products_id/900/product_name/manto-long-spats-multicolor Be the court jester!
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Feb 8, 2016 11:13
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Well, they're cheaper than fencing knickers, and I'm sure real 15th century fencers would find them dope as hell.  While looking for tights, I noticed Venum has a European branch, and really cheap shipping as a result. Anyone have experience with their products?
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Feb 8, 2016 17:14
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Siivola posted:Well, they're cheaper than fencing knickers, and I'm sure real 15th century fencers would find them dope as hell. Had a pair of MMA shorts from them that I really liked but they ended up ripping two months later in a really odd area probably from weak stiching or something, but your results may vary. v v
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Feb 8, 2016 21:52
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Siivola posted:Well, they're cheaper than fencing knickers, and I'm sure real 15th century fencers would find them dope as hell. Confirmed.  e. their uniforms were actually designed in the 15th century.
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Feb 8, 2016 21:57
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Hyaaa! Now I figured out why I get my rear end kicked so often. My Evil Stare + Head Nod technique is completely out of whack and untrained. Hyaaa!
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Feb 8, 2016 22:46
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Didnt get a chance to roll with my triangular friend tonight. Very dissapointed. But I did spearhead the initiative to have a thursday night open mat session so thats a good takeaway. also my boxing is insanely horrible.
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Feb 10, 2016 04:37
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General Emergency posted:Grappling tights you say? I don't know about affordable but I'll keep posting these until someone buys a pair: http://kamppailuvaruste.fi/product_info.php/cPath/107/products_id/900/product_name/manto-long-spats-multicolor  'sup.
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Feb 10, 2016 07:45
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Anyone have experience lifting and running while grappling 4 days a week. I am planning on joining a judo/bjj gym soon and at moment I am trying to run 3 times a week and do Starting Strength 3 days; is that even possible.
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Feb 10, 2016 19:04
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