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ApocalypseMeow posted:I just flew home from my parents on Saturday and the only warhammy book I could find in the airport to read was Broken Honour. It's actually been a really fun read, a mercenary caption leading his free company (fresh out of prison) against the rising beastmen of Hochland. Agreed. Broken Honour was surprisingly good  If you liked it I would also recommend the Blackhearts omnibus by Nathan Long. (They're not good books, but a fun read)
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 17:58 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 08:04 |
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Flippycunt posted:Yeah, still not worth it though. I mean, 12 archers are 72 points with no upgrades. So say they're shooting at some Empire Swordsmen, which are like what 6 points each? Or you can shoot at a single warpfire thrower and earn their points back in one round of shooting.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 18:01 |
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I think my question got missed on the last page (that or there aren't any lizardmen players here), but I got a huge lizardmen force for dirt cheap, and I'm wondering how viable it is to load my army up on Stegadons. I was thinking of taking as many as I could squeeze into a 2500pt list and then leading them with a carnosaur. Dinosaurs from hell type army. Does this work out at all?
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 18:12 |
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Re Stegadon: There are lots of ways of hurting big beasts. Cannons will hurt, but you may not run into a list full of them. They are vulnerable to some things, tooled up characters, cannons, poison, archers!!! etc. They can also punch other stuff in the face. Do you want to win lots of games? Winning will depend on the match up. People do not like big creatures because they are vulnerable to cannons. How many gun lines are you likely to face? Raphus C fucked around with this message at Jun 6, 2011 around 18:25 |
| # ? Jun 6, 2011 18:22 |
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Manifest posted:I think my question got missed on the last page (that or there aren't any lizardmen players here), but I got a huge lizardmen force for dirt cheap, and I'm wondering how viable it is to load my army up on Stegadons. PM ashcans for lizardmen questions. He's probably got the most experience with them among the posters here unless I'm forgetting someone. In general though you are not going to have a good run of things without a solid core of saurus to hold the enemy for a few turns. I'd go with at least 2 units with enough ranks to tarpit while your stegs set up a charge. Eshewing the slann is going to make you very easy to hit with magic so bring some magic defense. You'll also want to load up on several units of chameleons to take out warmachines. Be careful with your carno-lord, he's tough but supercombatants can't win the game by themselves. Real hurthling! fucked around with this message at Jun 6, 2011 around 18:29 |
| # ? Jun 6, 2011 18:22 |
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Xir posted:I'll check my bits and see if I have to assemble any of them as archers. I'd been eyeballing a chariot army in 7th edition, so it sounds like that's a good starting point. Do any of you run a Tomb King or Prince or do you think I'd be better off running just a Heirophant and spending the rest of my points on chariots? Well, what models do you have to work with? I haven't gotten to fight with the new armybook yet so this is just theoryhammer from my experience with last edition but Tomb Kings live or die based on their liche priests getting to do their thing. TK's can't march, their skeletons suck at shooting and fighting, and they die easily. The good news is that a liche priest nearby can negate all those things. Need to hustle into the battle? Liche priest. Need to resurrect some dudes? Liche priest. Extra attacks? Liche Priest. So, in a small points list I'd go with the heirophant over the tomb king. Here's a sample 1000 pt list based on what models I'm guessing you have: quote:Lords Tomb Prince goes in the skeleton block to give them good weapon skill, liche priest stays behind nearby to cast spells and poo poo. Tarit enemy with skeletons, then hit them with the chariots/special units.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 18:34 |
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Real hurthling! posted:PM ashcans for lizardmen questions. He's probably got the most experience with them among the posters here unless I'm forgetting someone. The list I was looking at running had two big 5x5 blocks of saurus warrior, with skink/kroxigor units to make up my core choices. I also have a slann in with a unit of temple guard. The rest of the list is like a skink warchief with that awesome looking charging spear, an ancient with the blowpipes, and a regular one with the bolt thrower. I'm not really looking to win, just not get steamrolled. And I am so gay for dinosaurs.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 18:48 |
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Flippycunt posted:skeletal horsemen Why are you recommending skeletal horsemen? they blow. A catapult, more chariots, or literally anything else would be a better use of nearly 150 points spent on the the worst unit in the book.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 18:50 |
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Real hurthling! posted:Why are you recommending skeletal horsemen? they blow. I'm not recommending anything. I'm just going off what models he said he has. The horsemen come in the starter battalion (unless they changed it).
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 19:09 |
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Flippycunt posted:Well, what models do you have to work with? I just have what comes in the Battalion Box. I *have* to include a Heirophant due to the army rules, but after that I was wondering if I should also include a Tomb King or just upgrade the Heirophant. I'll do some more thinking about it, but it looks like kitting out the priest might be a better idea.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 19:16 |
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Flippycunt posted:I'm not recommending anything. I'm just going off what models he said he has. The horsemen come in the starter battalion (unless they changed it). Oh I read good. Ok well if he's stuck with them then them's the breaks.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 19:18 |
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Yeah, there are horsemen in the battalion. I take it they are not good? Why not?
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 19:25 |
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Xir posted:Yeah, there are horsemen in the battalion. I take it they are not good? Why not? Cavalry is absurdly expensive which means you can't rank it up to any size that might have an impact on the battle without throwing your points away. That 142 point unit in the list above won't last a turn in combat, will likely kill nothing, and could be replaced with a ton of skeletons that actually could tarpit something, or a chariot unit or catapult that actually could kill something. If you can't hurt the enemy OR slow him down, you suck.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 19:36 |
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Im a little fuzzy on the rules and don't have the RB on me, but how does a character on a monstrous mount work in terms of sharing equipment and being poo poo at? I am considering running a Goblin Shaman on an Archanarok. I believe for magic and shotting, wounds are distributed via randomization before anything is rolled to hit. But do magical items count toward the mount too? Not so much weapons, but protection like an amulet that gives a ward save to the bearer. Does the mount gain that as well or just the character?
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 19:41 |
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Xir posted:I just have what comes in the Battalion Box. I *have* to include a Heirophant due to the army rules, but after that I was wondering if I should also include a Tomb King or just upgrade the Heirophant. I'll do some more thinking about it, but it looks like kitting out the priest might be a better idea. The difference between the tomb king and tomb prince isn't too much. In my opinion a stronger liche priest with more voodoo power has more utility.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 19:48 |
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Real hurthling! posted:PM ashcans for lizardmen questions. He's probably got the most experience with them among the posters here unless I'm forgetting someone. This is pretty flattering, but I have to admit that I have not played enough of 8th to be able to give really good advice, so please don't think you are getting some input from a tactical master! If you are jonesing for a Stegadon list, you should include an Engine of the Gods. Engine + lvl 2 priest + Plaque of Tepok gives you the equivalent of a 3rd level mage, and the special effects of the Engine itself are great - including some protection for your beasties from missile fire, and some additional whomping when you get up on your enemy. Having said that, that combination is 400 points, so if you are trying to pack stuff in downgrading is totally reasonable. Ancient stegadons are nice for the blowpipes, which put out a considerable (and sometimes ridiculous) amount of fire. Bear in mind that with the wounding rules and poison, you can actually shoot up other big beasts with the blowpipes pretty well! If you take a regular stegadon, I am much more in favor of just trying to plough into stuff; I don't think I have ever hit anything with the giant bow and its not worth spending time to try and get a shot. If you happen to be in the right place, great, but don't fuss about it. I am not sure if I missed an actual list getting posted?
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 21:25 |
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A Tomb Prince is a hero that for 100 points gets you The Curse and My Will Be Done. These are nice, I think. The Curse means when the Prince gets killed, whatever unit killed him takes D6 strength 4 hits, which count for combat resolution. If he's killed in a challenge, those hits go against the challenger. I suspect this makes him a nice win/win for issuing challenges against expensive opponents. My Will Be Done means everything in any unit he joins gets to use his unmodified WS (which is 5) instead of their own. (Doesn't affect mounts or other characters.) I'd say this makes him a really nice hero to jam into your big horde of skeletons. Upgrade their WS from 2 to 5, that makes them scarier to get stuck in to. On the other hand, there's other options. The hierophant can be a Liche High Priest (level 3 = 175 points, level 4 = 210 points) or just a Liche Priest (level 1 = 70 points, level 2 = 105 points). A necrotect (60 points hero) is good if you have some constructs in your army. If you do take a king or prince, a tomb herald (60 points hero) has Sworn Bodyguard (he takes hits instead of the king/prince), and can be a BSB for +25pts. All of these guys except the necrotect can be mounted on a skeletal horse, and the tomb herald, prince, or king can be on a chariot. So, to me, I might consider a king or prince just to get him on a chariot; or a prince, to put him in with some troops; or just go with the extra magic from an upgraded priest. I haven't played with any of these yet but it seems like there's a fair amount of flexibility to be had and none of the choices appear to be objectively terrible.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 21:45 |
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Ashcans posted:This is pretty flattering, but I have to admit that I have not played enough of 8th to be able to give really good advice, so please don't think you are getting some input from a tactical master! I haven't actually posted a list yet, I just managed to get two stegs for $60 this weekend and wanted to know if I could continue down that road without gimping myself. And it sounds like I can!
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 22:34 |
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I think you can still do well with them, although the balance has definitely shifted so that infantry is a good investment. This isn't as huge a change for Lizardmen because our infantry was a good choice anyway, although it has swung people away from the swarms-of-skink-skirmisher mode. An Engine of the Gods is great because it isn't just a giant monster; it's also a support for your army, and a platform for a skink priest. Although, again, it doesn't protect the priest as well as it used to, it's still handy. The other thing to keep in mind is that even if your stegadon is getting shot to poo poo, that doesn't make it useless. If your opponent is hurling cannons and archers at it, that's fire that isn't hitting your Saurus and Temple Guard, which is a good thing. Obviously if it just rolls over and dies that's no good, but it's good to consider a choice in regard to its overall contribution, not just whether it kills its own points value.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 23:37 |
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Ashcans posted:I think you can still do well with them, although the balance has definitely shifted so that infantry is a good investment. This isn't as huge a change for Lizardmen because our infantry was a good choice anyway, although it has swung people away from the swarms-of-skink-skirmisher mode. You bring up Temple Guard, which reminds me of a question I had while reading the army book. Is there ANY reason to bring them besides providing protection for my slann? Their statline seems pretty lame for their 16 points a piece.
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| # ? Jun 6, 2011 23:49 |
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Manifest posted:You bring up Temple Guard, which reminds me of a question I had while reading the army book. Is there ANY reason to bring them besides providing protection for my slann? Their statline seems pretty lame for their 16 points a piece. if you take a small unit and surround it by units of regular saurus, your slann is basically unkillable.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 00:25 |
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Real hurthling! posted:if you take a small unit and surround it by units of regular saurus, your slann is basically unkillable. I'm just planning on using the 10 in the battallion, and converting a few more to bring it up to 16 so I can get full ranks with a slann. They only seem good if you're willing to put a slann into them. Also thanks for answering all these questions, Lizardmen are pretty new to me.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 00:34 |
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Manifest posted:You bring up Temple Guard, which reminds me of a question I had while reading the army book. Is there ANY reason to bring them besides providing protection for my slann? Their statline seems pretty lame for their 16 points a piece. I thought they weren't optional when bringing the slann.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 01:02 |
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Boiled Water posted:I thought they weren't optional when bringing the slann. You can have a slann on its own.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 01:06 |
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So all this talk about Slann and Temple Guard. How many minimum guard should you bring if you have a slann?
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 02:19 |
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Nash posted:So all this talk about Slann and Temple Guard. How many minimum guard should you bring if you have a slann? I'd field sixteen generally as a minimum, enough to keep the Slann surrounded on all sides so a charge in the rear can't land it in combat.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 02:33 |
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Manifest posted:You bring up Temple Guard, which reminds me of a question I had while reading the army book. Is there ANY reason to bring them besides providing protection for my slann? Their statline seems pretty lame for their 16 points a piece. You don't fancy +1S, +1Sv, Coldblooded Stubborn Saurus with a Slann who can cast from the 2nd rank? If you're going for a tooled up Slann then you may as well go all out and have his TG buddies sitting in the way and stopping him ever getting hit by anything (and with Coldblooded Ld9 with a re-roll from your inevitable Slann BSB they're never going to go anywhere).
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 12:42 |
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Both Slann and Temple Guard are optional - as in you can take one without the other - but if you have them both in the army, then the Slann must be in the TG unit. If you are just taking them as a unit (with no Slann) TG are decent, but you might just be better off with more Saurus. If you have a Slann though, you really should take the Guard. Corrode outlined this above, but the main reason is that the Slann can sit in the second rank of a TG unit and be very well protected - you definitely do not want your Slann floating around on his lonesome, and if you put him into a Saurus unit, he has to be in the front rank and is more vulnerable there. With TG, he gets to sit in the second rank, cast spells freely, and be really well protected. The cold-blooded and stubborn means that unit is not going anywhere, and if you're using Lore of Life you can make it into a really amazing bunker unit. You are paying something like 400 points for this killer wizard lord who is terrible in all other respects - spring the extra points so that he doesn't get hacked up.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 12:56 |
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Yeah, that's why I specified that I wanted to know if they were worth it outside of being used as a slann shield, you know, as a freestanding unit. From your answer, it sounds like more Saurus would probably be better for the points, or perhaps yet another steg.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 15:31 |
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In 7th I would have said that they were still worth it, but I think the 8e changes have leveled stuff out. Sword and board Saurus get their parry save, and I believe that TG no longer have the option of using their halberd or their hand weapon; the bonus strength is pretty nice, but I'm not sure that it's worth losing the parry save. If you are short on other infantry and have the models it's probably a good use them, but if not then just more Saurus might be best. I want to point out that lizardmen have lots of really good choices, part of the dilemma is just that our basic troopers are really nice, so even other good choices seem less useful
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 15:52 |
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Ashcans posted:In 7th I would have said that they were still worth it, but I think the 8e changes have leveled stuff out. Sword and board Saurus get their parry save, and I believe that TG no longer have the option of using their halberd or their hand weapon; the bonus strength is pretty nice, but I'm not sure that it's worth losing the parry save. If you are short on other infantry and have the models it's probably a good use them, but if not then just more Saurus might be best. I haven't read the rules for LZ, but what do you think of razordon packs? I think the models look totally pimp, but have never seen them in action. Obviously someone figured out that those flamethrower lizard packs were better, but I wanna know why and how?
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 15:55 |
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zedar posted:I'd field sixteen generally as a minimum, enough to keep the Slann surrounded on all sides so a charge in the rear can't land it in combat. I generally think its better to take 21 for an extra rear rank, just in case something really, really hitty comes at your rear. Those 5 extra ablative wounds will keep anything that can realistically get behind you from having a lucky turn and shaving off that back rank (therefore getting to your slann), and allow you to have some breathing room to reform in combat without worrying about exposing yourself. At around 100 points, I can think of worse ways to spend those points. Then again, it depends on how risk averse you are, and how much you honestly expect something that can manage temple guard to hit your rear. If you aren't and you don't, then don't bother and just take the 16.
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 16:00 |
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I got a package (two packages, actually) from ineptmule the other week, but I was too busy with final exams and end of semester stuff to give it the attention it deserves. But now, pictures! A package from Britain! "Royal Mail" just sounds so much classier than USPS.  Wait, a box of Dwarves? I don't play dwarves... this had better not be a trick.  I see. The dwarves were only holding  Dryads! And Glade Guard! They're not dwarves at all!   And a bunch of pewter elves, as well! I finally have a block of Eternal Guard   The next package contained a *lot* of little horsies.   And here they are joined up with the rest of my Wood Elves. To hell with finecast- I like my pewter. Thanks, for the reinforcements, ineptmule! 
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| # ? Jun 7, 2011 23:19 |
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gently caress yeah Wood Elves! I loved playing my Wood Elves back in 7th, before the army got stolen. It's a shame you don't see them more often. I recently picked up a box of dryads and that bitchin ultraforge treeman to paint up for fun. Manifest fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2011 around 00:18 |
| # ? Jun 8, 2011 00:15 |
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I've been wanting to get into Ogre kingdoms, what would I need for a good army? I've read suggestions about 2 battalion boxes (Convert Ironguts and leadbelchers into bulls and a tyrant + Butcher) and then as many scrap launchers as I can stand to scratch build. And I suppose as many gnoblars as I feel like using. Is that all, or have I missed some obvious must have unit?
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| # ? Jun 8, 2011 03:24 |
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Carcer posted:I've been wanting to get into Ogre kingdoms, what would I need for a good army? I've read suggestions about 2 battalion boxes (Convert Ironguts and leadbelchers into bulls and a tyrant + Butcher) and then as many scrap launchers as I can stand to scratch build. And I suppose as many gnoblars as I feel like using. Trappers are awesome for war machine hunting. Also dig up the optional rules for: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamm...HUNDERLORD.html http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamm...-CAVALRY-1.html http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamm...-CAVALRY-2.html Anyone who wont let you play with them is an epic Douche. Buy the lord and knock off the mount via: http://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/t...stant-mold.html Thats what I am going to do for the new chaos dwarfs.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2011 05:24 |
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Carcer posted:I've been wanting to get into Ogre kingdoms, what would I need for a good army? I've read suggestions about 2 battalion boxes (Convert Ironguts and leadbelchers into bulls and a tyrant + Butcher) and then as many scrap launchers as I can stand to scratch build. And I suppose as many gnoblars as I feel like using. Trappers, as stated before, are pretty much a must have in an army so vulnerable to warmachine and multiple wound attacks. While the official GW models are metal, 3 to a blister, and likely out of print now that finecost is being pushed, you can easily convert some trappers out of the gnoblars you get in the battalion boxes and still have plenty left for a block of regular old gnoblar fighters. Converting a Bruiser BSB should also be high on your priority list... they're too good not to take this edition. Also, your butcher conversion can double as a slaughtermaster, but I prefer to take one of both so you may want to convert two. You can use the leadbelcher bodies from the battalion sprues to stick on regular old clubs, swords, and whatnot from the battalions to make additional bulls, which will help bulk out your mainstay unit. Remember that you can only take as many scraplaunchers as you have units of gnob fighters and trappers... unless you go crazy making units of bulls this generally means you're limited to two scraplaunchers. If you have any other questions about composition or how to equip units, shout em out here and we'll do our best to help!
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| # ? Jun 8, 2011 13:05 |
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So I managed to score all of these models for lizardmen for $100 and about $100 worth of eldar models in trade off of bartertown.com. 20 Saurus Warriors HW / Shield 18 Saurus Warriors Spear / Shield 3 Stegadon - Assembled 2 Mostly Painted / 1 Bare 15 Skinks Blowpipes A few painted 5 Saurus Cav 1 Built / 4 on Sprue 1 Saurus Cav Standard 2 Salamander Hunting Party OOP 5 Kroxigor OOP 1 Slann Mage 1 OOP Metal Saurus Hero A few Skink heroes 18 OOP Saurus Warriors - painted 30 OOP Saurus Warriors - bare plastic 12 Unarmed current version skinks 60+ OOP Skinks If bought new (and if they were all current edition), it would come to around $730! All in all, just shy of %75 off!
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| # ? Jun 8, 2011 13:32 |
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Joebungaloe posted:So I managed to score all of these models for lizardmen for $100 and about $100 worth of eldar models in trade off of bartertown.com. Nice catch, now you only need to trade them Saurus Cav for some more Saurus. drat, it feels good avoiding the horrible prices GW want. A man only has so many kidneys. The real question is, how thick/bad is the paint? That is the problem with getting models second hand, horrible glue/paint everywhere.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2011 21:05 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 08:04 |
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Joebungaloe posted:I haven't read the rules for LZ, but what do you think of razordon packs? I think the models look totally pimp, but have never seen them in action. Obviously someone figured out that those flamethrower lizard packs were better, but I wanna know why and how? I am kind of a fan of Razordons, but I think it's pretty accepted that they are the red-headed stepchild of the packs. The point of the Salamander teams is to get toward a flank and drop that template across one or more units. The problem with Razordons is that you are only ever going to be hitting one unit, and you are really dependent on the artillery dice. The flip side to this is that Razordons are a little more straightforward, and so if you are terrible at judging distance and lining up the template, they take less brainpower (although the real answer is to just get better at those things). The Razordon's real 'trick' is that it doubles the number of shots it gets when its stands and shoots against chargers. This is kind of an interesting 'gently caress you' because your opponent has to choose between letting the things shoot up his unit, charge it and get shot up some more, or divert his own ranged fire to deal with them. Ultimately I think they're useable and kind of a fun choice, and you should be fine unless your local games are really competitive and cut-throar. Razordons aren't terrible, they just have a lower peak performance than Salamanders.
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| # ? Jun 8, 2011 21:14 |
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