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ImJasonH posted:I agree that the rules are often ambiguous, sloppy, and sometimes obviously lazily written. I agree that that may well be the intent, but a better approach to creating a casual game is to make the rules less complicated, rather than less understandable. However, I would not be as interested in most of their games if they were overly simplified. GW wants to make games that are very "characterful". Most of their rules decisions seem to be based on "how can we add flavor to this" with "is this balanced" a secondary consideration, and "is this unambiguously written" and "does this conflict with some other rule" being distant afterthoughts at best. So while I can totally get behind Beerhammer and its relatives, I could still wish for the seemingly simple and not very expensive step of having a technically-minded person do a review/edit of their rulebooks before publishing them. That person would have the ability to flag any ambiguous or contradictory text for revision, and suggest clarifications where necessary. It's something I do at my own job on a routine basis and it isn't really all that time consuming.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 01:19 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 19:25 |
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It's pretty much a universal rule for all of GW's written output, from codex to BL, that a proof reader would be a massive benefit. But for whatever reason, they just do not seem to bother.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 01:37 |
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Leperflesh posted:I agree that that may well be the intent, but a better approach to creating a casual game is to make the rules less complicated, rather than less understandable. However, I would not be as interested in most of their games if they were overly simplified. Realistically, the tighter your mechanics are, the easier it is to add flavor and ease of understanding to the game. But unfortunately, this is not the background that GW comes from.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 02:23 |
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Prefect Six posted:So who else is just livid over the lack of finecast support for Lizardmen? Aye, they need some Finecast love, getting some Kroxigors as soon as they come out!
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 08:06 |
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S.J. posted:Realistically, the tighter your mechanics are, the easier it is to add flavor and ease of understanding to the game. But unfortunately, this is not the background that GW comes from. This is something that impresses me about warmahordes, I feel the ruleset is pretty tight now and almost everything has thematic or fluff related rules. 8th ed fantasy seems a bit sad by comparison as it's just steadfast  MAGIC PHASE steadfast
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 08:20 |
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Recursive Expanse posted:
you, sir, are a genius. Business Gorillas posted:Anyone have any real experience with hoppers? Currently, the spider riders are only really good for war machine hunting and/or dying in hilarious ways that benefit my army somewhat. I figure I can actually pick up units that I like that can do the same thing. Hoppers can be fun and surprisingly effective. I run a unit of 10 with a Great Cave Squig (and useless NG boss on top) that bounces down a flank and basically tries to tie up/eat fast cavalry, shooty units etc etc. They managed to chomp an Ogre Maneater unit the other day (some outrageous luck, admittedly). The random movement seems like a pain, but can be overcome by the GCS's reroll. With that, they become one of the more reliable units in my army, which is quite surprising really. They die to shooting very very easily, but the way to get round this is to have a big unit of trolls that looks much scarier standing nearby. Because the hoppers are fairly reliable and not too bad in combat, try to toss them in a flank or arrange them to pull units out of position. With some clever magic items you can turn the squad into different types of utility unit - and it's such a ridiculous idea anyway that you may as well pull out some of the quirkier items from the rulebook - though a cheap magical sword isn't too bad either. Hmmmm.... this advice is barely coherent, so I'll just say; get them. You will frequently regret it, but, hell. We play orcs and goblins. There's always something to regret, alongside the hilarious fun. lenoon fucked around with this message at Sep 16, 2011 around 09:23 |
| # ? Sep 16, 2011 09:10 |
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lenoon posted:Hmmmm.... this advice is barely coherent, so I'll just say; get them. You will frequently regret it, but, hell. We play orcs and goblins. There's always something to regret, alongside the hilarious fun. Listen to this man - he is wise (maybe it's the beard and the pipe  )
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 09:54 |
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In regards to their rules I kind of wish they employed a rules coloring system like they do with their Blood Bowl lrb where rules that changed between editions are colored differently. I end up judging tournaments fairly frequently and see people that have been playing this game for years making constant mistakes, either playing certain things from several editions ago or with goofy house rules that their local clubs have been using and no one corrected them on. I'm not sure if it's the company's loose attitude towards rules writing or what but being in charge of rules disputes but not being able to comment when people do stuff more complicated than what you are shown in the GW intro battles wrong (and sometimes end up with it working heavily in their favor) is incredibly frustrating.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 10:44 |
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Begin fairy tale GW wishlisting: If GW sold their paper books with a key to subscribe to an online copy in PDF form, they could update the PDF copy somewhat constantly with little clarifications (no outright balance changes though). People who notice inconsistencies and errors could call/email them in and get a special edition model for free for their services. Bam, an army of diligent, pedantic, more-or-less free copywriters. And I'd be able to make nerd lists from my computer at work.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 13:23 |
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Bhyo posted:Some of this is down to them doing the battle report up to 6 months before WD comes out. WD are written 3 months in advance of the issue that comes out, and the battle reports are done a few months before that too so It could simply be that they're using old playtesting rules that never made it into the new book. Holy poo poo, I knew there was a lag but six months? That's nuts. No wonder so much of it is a mess. I have no idea why they would need a three-month lead time on publishing, but I suppose its because they run their print operation the same way they do everything else.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 13:53 |
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ApocalypseMeow posted:Aye, they need some Finecast love, getting some Kroxigors as soon as they come out! I really want a finecast Chakax.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 14:10 |
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Since there's a bit of Kroxigor chat going on, I do quite like this Kroxigor Ancient they had up on the GW site a while back. Based on the plastic Daemon Prince.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 14:28 |
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Tindalos posted:Since there's a bit of Kroxigor chat going on, I do quite like this Kroxigor Ancient they had up on the GW site a while back. 
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 15:32 |
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That is pretty sweet, would love it if they made an official similar sized hero/lord type in the next book
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 15:34 |
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I was pretty pissed that they didn't give us any rules for Nakai the Wanderer in the new book, which that dude would be pretty much perfect for. An ancient Kroxigor that appears out of the jungles on the eave of battles? He's from the first spawning and during the fall of the Chaos gates he held off legions of daemons on his own. Badass mother needs a model.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 15:53 |
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lenoon posted:Hmmmm.... this advice is barely coherent, so I'll just say; get them. You will frequently regret it, but, hell. We play orcs and goblins. There's always something to regret, alongside the hilarious fun. Thanks for the advice, manbro. I absolutely love the models and I'm going to play them against my roommate's Dark Elves today. Too bad he plays a hydra on each flank. In all honesty, I played Skaven and Vamp Counts back in 6th and then O&G currently. I don't know how I'd function if I had to have "reliable" units and a "strategy" when I got to the board.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 16:49 |
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Ashcans posted:I was pretty pissed that they didn't give us any rules for Nakai the Wanderer in the new book, which that dude would be pretty much perfect for. An ancient Kroxigor that appears out of the jungles on the eave of battles? He's from the first spawning and during the fall of the Chaos gates he held off legions of daemons on his own. Badass mother needs a model. Oh man that sound amazing. So that dude is made just from the Demon Prince box?
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 17:14 |
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:It's pretty much a universal rule for all of GW's written output, from codex to BL, that a proof reader would be a massive benefit. Imagine my pain when, back in the early 90s, some friends and I started playing various Palladium games (RIFTs mostly). I recall there was a run of multiple books where the author obviously had a sticky 'f' key on his typewriter, because there were extra effs stuck on to random words throughout the books. Not to mention the godawful mess that was Palladium's ruleset. Balance wasn't even an afterthought; you had to somehow get a party composed of a guy driving a mech, a psychic, a dragon, and a mutant hamster wielding a knife, to work together in an adventure. But hey, at least you had about fifty different choices of meticulously-statted-out 20th century handguns to pick from! By comparison to ~1993 RIFTS, Warhammer 8th Edition is a paragon of balance and clarity. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at Sep 16, 2011 around 18:18 |
| # ? Sep 16, 2011 18:15 |
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Ashcans posted:Holy poo poo, I knew there was a lag but six months? That's nuts. No wonder so much of it is a mess. I have no idea why they would need a three-month lead time on publishing, but I suppose its because they run their print operation the same way they do everything else. Its not all done 6 months before, but most articles are written a few months in advance, thats just things like standard bearer/some battle reports. They're probably finalised 2 months in advance like most magazines, with the obvious exceptions on if GW were to spring a release on something.
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 18:41 |
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Ashcans posted:I was pretty pissed that they didn't give us any rules for Nakai the Wanderer in the new book, which that dude would be pretty much perfect for. An ancient Kroxigor that appears out of the jungles on the eave of battles? He's from the first spawning and during the fall of the Chaos gates he held off legions of daemons on his own. Badass mother needs a model. Lord Kroxigor Draigo?
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 21:42 |
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The new game is up on g-w.com It's called Dreadfleet and looks great. I just ordered my box, $115. [And now it's no longer listed, but I still have my confirmation email] Since no one can see it now I'll recap what I remember: 10 Ships, one for each major faction (including chaos dwarfs!), a bunch of cool islands, and a cloth map game board. It also comes with a bunch of smaller stuff but this is all I remember. Manifest fucked around with this message at Sep 16, 2011 around 23:33 |
| # ? Sep 16, 2011 23:02 |
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http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...Id=prod1350015a I can see it fine
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| # ? Sep 16, 2011 23:43 |
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Phyresis posted:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...Id=prod1350015a Yeah it looks like it's back up, there was a while there where it was gone. The photos are great, the way you can spin them around for a full view is giving me the biggest warham boner. Also, is the ship with the elementals supposed to represent araby? Manifest fucked around with this message at Sep 16, 2011 around 23:47 |
| # ? Sep 16, 2011 23:44 |
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Fantastic. Just ordered one. Also pleased that it doesn't look like the sort of thing where having two copies would make much of a difference as all the ships are so unique, so I don't have to spend £140! Edit: just noticed though - no Orcs?!! ineptmule fucked around with this message at Sep 17, 2011 around 00:27 |
| # ? Sep 17, 2011 00:12 |
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They'll be included in a $99 expansion set along with the Skaven. 
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 00:38 |
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Shadeoses posted:They'll be included in a $99 expansion set along with the Skaven. There's a huge Skaven fish thingy. Still no Orcs  edit: Whoops, in my furor to order this thing I accidentally bought a pack of BFG Chaos Cruisers that were also in my shopping cart. It's a sign! ImJasonH fucked around with this message at Sep 17, 2011 around 00:47 |
| # ? Sep 17, 2011 00:44 |
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Shadeoses posted:They'll be included in a $99 expansion set along with the Skaven. Skaven have the bloated scientific monstrosity/whale as a ship.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 00:45 |
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bhsman posted:Skaven have the bloated scientific monstrosity/whale as a ship. that ship is awesome. It seems strange though that chaos dwarves and araby both have ships but O&G don't
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 00:47 |
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There's also no Brettonians, Ogres, Wood Elves, Beastmen or Chaos.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 01:01 |
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Bretonnians historically have a strong navy, but this is a war between pirates and mercenaries, not realms. I'm glad the opportunity was taken to bring in some of the fringe nations.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 01:09 |
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FROOOOOOOOG posted:There's also no Brettonians, Ogres, Wood Elves, Beastmen or Chaos. not sure I really see woodies and beastmen building ships though. Not sure what a giant brett ship would be like. You could have knights riding giant sea horses as smaller vessels though. but yeah chaos and Orges also seem like big ommissions
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 01:12 |
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Guys, guys! We missed the most important bit. Who bought the novella too?
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 01:18 |
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Xlorp posted:Guys, guys! We missed the most important bit. Who bought the novella too? Written by...Phil Kelly?
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 01:23 |
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So this isn't a re-release of Man-O-War? Looks interesting.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 01:38 |
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Prefect Six posted:Oh man that sound amazing. The head, and a few other bits are from the Saurus cavalry set, but most of it is pure daemon prince. WAR FOOT posted:Lord Kroxigor Draigo? Makes sense, I mean the Emperor is just a Lord Kroak rip off. (The most powerful psyker ever, nearly singlehandedly fights off a daemon invasion, wrecking huge damage, even when his body is slain, and then mummified and his remains intered in a huge pyramid, with his spirit still posessing his corpse.)
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 02:48 |
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So wait, which factions ARE represented, and is there a place to see pics of their ships?
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 02:59 |
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Phyresis posted:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...Id=prod1350015a Click on the above link. There's images you can scroll through. Isn't that metallic octopus-ship the chaos one?
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 03:01 |
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Leperflesh posted:Click on the above link. There's images you can scroll through. Chaos Dwarfs.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 03:02 |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m1t...player_embedded A video with pictures and descriptions of all the ships and basic gameplay. Phil Kelly is an amazing games writer but he can't talk for poo poo. Just noticed that their prime marketing video for a new game is unlisted on youtube. GW Marketing ladies and gentlemen.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 03:04 |
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| # ? May 23, 2013 19:25 |
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bhsman posted:Skaven have the bloated scientific monstrosity/whale as a ship. Oh, I thought that was a whale or porpoise or something that got Chaos'd. That Chaos Dwarf robo-squid looks awesome, so I'll overlook the exception. At first glance I thought the Necrons had joined in.
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| # ? Sep 17, 2011 03:15 |
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