|
homeless snail posted:And if you want an incentive to be unproductive, cheap opiates! I could get used to libertopia. I'm down with cheap opiates, I just don't want to be afraid of dying every time I get sick because it might be drug-resistant mega-bronchitis.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:11 |
|
|
# ? Mar 28, 2024 22:41 |
|
Cream_Filling posted:It's like saying that if the Santa in the mall was just fatter and jollier and had a bigger beard, then he eventually if he was Santa enough he would become magic and everyone would get free toys. This is a wonderfully apt comparison
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:12 |
|
Boner Slam posted:So it's not that it's a circlejerk, it's that it is universally accepted that those people are a joke. I would rephrase it as not knowing poo poo beyond the McCarthy era, but I understand what you're saying. The smartest thing I ever read by Ayn Rand is that she wouldn't bother talking about the after-life because how could she definitively talk about something that she couldn't experience. While the logic is kind of hypocritical, it is a reasonable thing to assert. Cream_Filling posted:Whenever anyone talks about "free markets," I mentally substitute the word "good" or "well regulated" for "free" and all of a sudden it all makes sense. A thousand times yes to this, I think most people assume that the US economic system is a pure capitalist state. Saw this and don't know what to make of it, is that the linux penguin?
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:14 |
|
JDanielS posted:Saw this and don't know what to make of it, is that the linux penguin? Yes, I think this is Tux. Those bitcoin fanatics are defiling Tux!
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:17 |
|
No that's Bux, the Bitcoin penguin. Completely different.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:24 |
|
Why don't the bitcoin loyalists buy an island and then run the Ideal Society or whatever the gently caress it is, and see how it works out.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:28 |
|
Dre2Dee2 posted:Why don't the bitcoin loyalists buy an island and then run the Ideal Society or whatever the gently caress it is, and see how it works out. I wonder who'd get the conch.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:30 |
|
Hungry Gerbil posted:Yes, I think this is Tux. Those bitcoin fanatics are defiling Tux! Man, classic tux is so much better than crystal tux in every way.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:31 |
|
Dre2Dee2 posted:Why don't the bitcoin loyalists buy an island and then run the Ideal Society or whatever the gently caress it is, and see how it works out. I don't think that even if all of them were able to get their hands on TWO of mom and dad's credit cards each they would have enough money to buy an island. If they did, however, it would be interesting to which one is the survivor after the first week. e: basically this Lolie posted:I wonder who'd get the conch.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:32 |
|
homeless snail posted:No that's Bux, the Bitcoin penguin. Completely different. Do you guys want the link to my Bux-RSS-update wagon forum? I know it might seem like I'm just pushing a useless web 2.0 garbage-site but I swear this is going to make money by making money! If any of you steals my idea, however, the Libertarian gods on high will smite you and give me all the glory of your death.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:35 |
|
I always thought Lord of the Flies was just libertarians on an island.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 00:42 |
|
Dre2Dee2 posted:Why don't the bitcoin loyalists buy an island and then run the Ideal Society or whatever the gently caress it is, and see how it works out. I think every stupid utopian ideal should get an island on which to test it out and show how unworkable it is. The wonderful thing about libertarianism is that it can be tested out on the internet with phenomena like bitcoin, so nobody has to die (except from heat exhaustion) to demonstrate how bad it is.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 01:08 |
|
The-Mole posted:I always thought Lord of the Flies was just libertarians on an island. Lord of the Bitcoins.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 01:10 |
|
Amaritudo posted:Did I just trip and fall into the NationStates forums? And the only thing more insufferable than a libertarian with absolute faith in the compassion of corporations is a non-libertarian with absolute faith in the compassion of government. The point of the former is to create profit, the point of the latter is to keep the former in line and make sure that everyone toes the bottom line. Compassion is irrelevant to them both.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 01:11 |
|
AuMaestro posted:I think every stupid utopian ideal should get an island on which to test it out and show how unworkable it is. The wonderful thing about libertarianism is that it can be tested out on the internet with phenomena like bitcoin, so nobody has to die (except from heat exhaustion) to demonstrate how bad it is.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 01:30 |
|
Gerblyn posted:The sad thing is, that there IS a way for libertarian society to deal with this situation. At some point, the damage done by your theoretical company will reach a level where it will begin to have a marked impact on the lifestyle of consumers, or will cause a disaster of such magnitude that the consumers can no longer ignore it. At this point, the market will go through a correction as other companies begin to capitalize on the situation by pointing out why company A is bad, and that people should by their own more expensive products instead, which do not have such bad environmental consequences.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 01:31 |
|
The fun thing about libertarians is how the proof that the current system is terrible is that "bad things happen," and they like to believe that the system that they would set up would of course be better, on the grounds that "people inherently wouldn't want to gently caress each other over," and that their system can't be proved wrong because nobody's ever really tried it. And these are all the exact same arguments that socialists make.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 01:55 |
|
Cream_Filling posted:Seriously, how do libertarians solve the tragedy of the commons? It's an incredibly basic problem that really can't be solved without some sort of central arbiter with enforcement powers i.e. a government. Libertarians solve the tragedy of the commons by having no commons. Everything is owned. Someone will own the roads, and the lakes, and the rivers, and the oceans, and these people will see to it that nothing is overly polluted. Of course, this wouldn't actually work. First of all, nobody could own the air, which means there's nobody to stop factories from belching smoke into the air. The only way the oceans could be owned would be if the entire world was libertarian. And there's nothing to stop people from taking actions which will damage someone's else's property, but the damage won't be clear for quite some time. In a Libertarian world, I could create a company called "Crazy Bob's Nuclear Waste Disposal", wherein I bought vacant lots at the edges of cities, dug pits, and dumped all the nuclear waste into the pit, in barrels that would last only a few decades. So 20 to 30 years later, the nuclear waste would start leaking out of the barrels, make its way into the groundwater and poison any wells or rivers or any other water nearby. Nobody could stop me, but they could sue me for damaging their rivers... 30 years later. By which time I don't care, because I've long since died from my heroin addiction.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 02:08 |
|
SlothfulCobra posted:The fun thing about libertarians is how the proof that the current system is terrible is that "bad things happen," and they like to believe that the system that they would set up would of course be better, on the grounds that "people inherently wouldn't want to gently caress each other over," and that their system can't be proved wrong because nobody's ever really tried it.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 03:04 |
|
Orange Sunshine posted:Libertarians solve the tragedy of the commons by having no commons. Everything is owned. Someone will own the roads, and the lakes, and the rivers, and the oceans, and these people will see to it that nothing is overly polluted. Oh it gets better than that. Because of that action people then won't use nuclear power stations that aren't certified by another company who investigates how power stations dispose of waste. People could pay that company money to shut down waste disposal companies, so they outsource mercenaries to help enforce public safety. But if some people refuse to pay for safe waste disposal, that means everyone suffers, so the majority who want safety and not tumours pay mercenaries to shake down the minority to force them to pay for the good of the public. So they've created an EPA, taxes and police, ex nullus. Government self-assembles, or rather, is one of the lowest energy states for society to be in. That's why it is how it is now. The only way for any system to be more viable is if it is an actually lower energy state. The benevolent and omniscient Minds of the Culture series is the only system that comes to mind: everything is planned out so thoroughly and influenced so subtlety with technology so in abundance that anyone can really do basically anything and piss no-one off and lack nothing. Of course, back on Earth, the only way for societies and economies to get better - to develop the Ice-9 to the current systems' water, if you will - is the same way anything else does: the scientific method. Hypothesises must be formed and tested through experimentation. It's a bit difficult at the moment because governments like continuing, in fact that is their sole purpose: to provide continuity and stability, and worse, that there are ethical questions to experimenting on large populaces. My answer is orbital habitats: away from all pre-existing laws true experimental political science could take place for the first time. I doubt it would be difficult to find volunteers. Controlled tests on macro-sized populaces is what we really need to find a system that has the properties one would want: allows the maximum number of people to pursue happiness, allows the maximum possible living standards, to be powered by cultural and intellectual maxima rather than to suppress them, support exponential population growth, have the largest production, has the least scarcity, and self-modifies to be the best as per current research. A lot of current and proposed systems have or aspire to have some of these, but none do all.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 03:11 |
|
SlothfulCobra posted:The fun thing about libertarians is how the proof that the current system is terrible is that "bad things happen," and they like to believe that the system that they would set up would of course be better, on the grounds that "people inherently wouldn't want to gently caress each other over," and that their system can't be proved wrong because nobody's ever really tried it. This is pseudo-history, but Jared Diamond has suggested that the failure of the Norwegian Greenland colony was essentially the result of libertarianism. The owners of the land instructed their employees to concentrate on the wool industry instead of gathering food, and as soon as the weather turned from marginal to genuinely bad they all died.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 03:19 |
|
chaosbreather posted:Of course, back on Earth, the only way for societies and economies to get better - to develop the Ice-9 to the current systems' water, if you will - is the same way anything else does: the scientific method. Hypothesises must be formed and tested through experimentation. It's a bit difficult at the moment because governments like continuing, in fact that is their sole purpose: to provide continuity and stability, and worse, that there are ethical questions to experimenting on large populaces. I fully support firing all libertarians into space. No need to wait for the habitats.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 03:20 |
|
Cream_Filling posted:I fully support firing all libertarians into space. No need to wait for the habitats.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 03:22 |
|
AuMaestro posted:This is pseudo-history, but Jared Diamond has suggested that the failure of the Norwegian Greenland colony was essentially the result of libertarianism. The owners of the land instructed their employees to concentrate on the wool industry instead of gathering food, and as soon as the weather turned from marginal to genuinely bad they all died. Dunno, that just sounds like they were being foolishly selfish and short-sighted. Oh waiiiit
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 03:23 |
|
Cream_Filling posted:I fully support firing all libertarians into space. No need to wait for the habitats. Anyone can murder people who they disagree with, without the expense of rocket propulsion. If you really want to end libertarianism you give them a habitat far from where they can hurt innocents and let them do it, and show the world as they disprove their own political hypothesis. Just like how Bitcoins disprove and continue to disprove their own economic hypothesis.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 03:25 |
|
chaosbreather posted:Anyone can murder people who they disagree with, without the expense of rocket propulsion. If you really want to end libertarianism you give them a habitat far from where they can hurt innocents and let them do it, and show the world as they disprove their own political hypothesis. Just like how Bitcoins disprove and continue to disprove their own economic hypothesis. This is kind of why I wish the Free State Project hadn't failed. I really wanted to watch an entire state devolve into Thunderdome live on CNN.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 03:38 |
|
Why do people even argue with US Libertarians any more? Just keep letting them siphon Republican votes over to Ron Paul. Everybody wins.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 03:44 |
|
chaosbreather posted:
already been done http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_Experiment
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 03:50 |
|
Well, you fuckers finally made me do it. I signed up at bitcoin forums.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 04:00 |
|
bosschair posted:Well, you fuckers finally made me do it. I signed up at bitcoin forums. We're probably gonna drive Vegetta of the edge
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 04:24 |
|
Can anybody give a synopsis of OnlyOneTV for the past few days? does it still exist?
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 04:32 |
|
bosschair posted:Well, you fuckers finally made me do it. I signed up at bitcoin forums. Enjoy being logged into the forums for four hours before you can post. (via auto refresh)
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 05:06 |
|
FuriousxGeorge posted:Enjoy being logged into the forums for four hours before you can post. (via auto refresh) Or ask for whitelisting. Atlas whitelisted me, and then I went straight to his threads to post.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 05:56 |
|
ClosedBSD posted:Or ask for whitelisting. Atlas whitelisted me, and then I went straight to his threads to post. Atlas banished me back to the newbie area. Of course, I was posting as FAtlas, had a fat version of his avatar, and was quoting each of his posts and adding a lisp. Still, it was kind of a dick move.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 06:00 |
Lots of downward market pressure at the moment. $200k of bitcoins for sale at $14 or under. A big buy order at $13.5 just fell, but it looks like it may have been filled rather than vanished (basing this off volume).
|
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 06:00 |
|
Good Citizen posted:Atlas banished me back to the newbie area. Of course, I was posting as FAtlas, had a fat version of his avatar, and was quoting each of his posts and adding a lisp. Still, it was kind of a dick move. hahaha, when was that? I thought they took away his admin rights because even the other people who moderate the Bitcoin forum thought he was crazy.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 06:07 |
|
At what prices are the OTC traders selling?
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 06:12 |
|
It's interesting how a single huge trade can send the market into a freefall. By interesting, I mean completely as expected, but still, it's interesting how predictable it is
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 06:21 |
|
Delthalaz posted:The reason you can't go and buy penicillin whenever you feel that you need it is because if everyone did this it would gently caress up the world for everyone by creating super-bacteria. Conversely - with MORE government regulation, he might have access to actual healthcare and not had to pay a cent rather than $3000 for a basic drug treatment. When I had a tooth infection last year and bought penicillin and painkillers, I paid less than $15 dollars for them. But hey, a free market will regulate itself I'm sure.
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 06:36 |
|
|
# ? Mar 28, 2024 22:41 |
It's really not that hard to get past their newbie filter. Just make five low content posts in the Newbie forum, and you're cleared to go once you've been online for the allotted number of hours.
|
|
# ? Jul 17, 2011 06:36 |