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EvilTaytoMan posted:I thought it was a parallel universe that Carter gets transported to while doing an experiment? It was, yeah, not an alternate future.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:11
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vandelay industries posted:Carter was incredibly off-putting as the leader of Atlantis, since her usual bad-rear end brilliance in SG1 was put on the back-burner (and barely used, if ever); she really didn't have much to do. It was very odd to see that type of role from a SG-1 member, kinda like how Jack was portrayed in his last season. Woosly was the best, by far and would have loved to see more of him in the role. As another person going through Atlantis for the first time, it's painfully obvious that Carter has no niche on the show. Weir, at least, was the linguist (and diplomat, though that came up surprisingly less, considering it was the big thing in her debut on SG-1) of the group, so if they find some weird alien language or variant of Ancient, then she gets to break out her laptop and books and translate. Carter is 2 things in the franchise. She's a soldier and a scientist. Sheppard and McKay (and Teyla and Zelenka) fill both the primary and secondary versions of those on Atlantis already. So you can't have her do either of the things the character's good at, which leaves her as the boss. Except despite apparently still having her USAF rank, she's not a direct part of the military command structure... so she's an administrator, and because she's Sam, she can't be too uncertain about it, so you end up with a very, very slightly more hardass and competent Weir at her most boring. Minus the quasi-incesty maternal relationship with Sheppard. I'm largely enjoying the show so far (about halfway through S4), but it's aggressively dumb at times. Like the first one with Jeanie? Where Carter says there's a minuscule chance of connecting to an inhabited alternate reality due to the infinite number of them? Except that means it's more like 50/50. There's infinity inhabited universes and infinity empty ones. And the Atlantis crew going to rescue Jack and Woolsey, which is so irresponsible I was rolling my eyes. They act like Beau Bridges is the jerk, but he's absolutely right. And the second one with McKay's sister is... very sketchy and makes it hard to like Sheppard. If I heard right, a lot of the latter problems would not have happened on SG-1 because the Air Force had script approval and probably wouldn't let an officer be portrayed that way. Which, say what you will, might've been for the best.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:32
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Gaz-L posted:And the second one with McKay's sister is... very sketchy and makes it hard to like Sheppard. Remind me what happens here, because I don't remember this... edit: Looked up the episode. I assume you're referring to Sheppard feeding that guy to the Wraith. I think it actually fit pretty well with Sheppard's character. He definitely has a dark streak, but they do a pretty good job of not over-doing it and walk the line pretty well. The first time this becomes really obvious is during "The Storm/The Eye" two-parter when he raises the gate-shield and kills fifty-five Genii soldiers coming through the gate. I like this element to his character, not because "ooh he's such an anti-hero" but because it helps set him apart from Jack, Daniel, and Cam. Non of them would ever do either of those things, and they aren't portrayed as heroic or necessary. Both times other characters are pretty horrified. But what are you gonna do. It puts Sheppard in a moral area closer to Teal'c, who often gets a free pass to operate on Jaffa ethics rather than human ones. Snak fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 21:50
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I disagree about The Storm. Jack absolutely would do that. And I think it's more that it's portrayed as barely questionable. McKay hems and haws for like 2 lines, and then is back to bros. John's reading a loving comic book after doing it! If they'd at least had a scene of Landry or Carter chewing him out for it. A "Every airman in that room swears by the report, but I know what you did and if you EVER pull that again, you better hope the gate I send you out of isn't in orbit!" scene would make me much happier. As it is, it feels like the main cast gets a free pass for doing really iffy poo poo just because they're the 'heroes', in a way I never felt SG1 did. EDIT: Compare SG-1's 'Abyss', where the team desparately want to help Jack, but it'd be suicidal and irresponsible to do what they'd need to in order to save one man. So instead of disobeying orders, they come up with a way to give him help without doing so. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 22:34
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Snak posted:Remind me what happens here, because I don't remember this... Everyone acts like a jerk towards McKay (even his sister); even though some of it might be deserved, you felt bad for him because his closest friends basically gang up on him.(same with the alternate universe McKay episode, or is that the same one?). It's been awhile since I've seen it, but that's what I remember. vandelay industries fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 23:03
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No, I was talking about the second one, where the McKay siblings get kidnapped by a Big Pharma boss. The first one, with the Cool Rodney was fun, but had the problem of feeling like 2 stories hot-glued together. Like they had the parallel McKay idea, and the 'Rodney reconnects with estranged sister' story and they couldn't work out how to get 4 acts and a teaser out of either alone.
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Jul 25, 2014 23:06
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Gaz-L posted:I disagree about The Storm. Jack absolutely would do that. Yeah I'm pretty sure Jack would do that too, without a second thought. Really isn't that the whole point of the iris? "Oh hello it seems there's an invading force, rather than sacrifice our dudes to kill theirs lets just do the bugs on a windshield thing and save ourselves the manpower." As a tangent to this, in the episode of Atlantis where Teal'c and Ronin team up to smoke some Wraith blunts there's that point where the Wraith roll that device into the SGC that knocks out all the base personnel, but it doesn't do it the split second it emerges from the gate. In fact if I remember right Walter has enough time to go "what the hell" before it does it's thing. I kinda feel he should have taken a beating for this. If the gate is open and you're getting the right iris code but instead of an SG team coming thru you see an alien device you should be smashing the iris button straight away. SG teams always had to approve bringing back alien tech and if they didn't and just rolled it on ahead then they deserved to crash headlong into whatever unobtainum the iris was made out of. Even in The Storm, Shepard was pretty much pulling a Solid Snake on everyone but bringing in 60 more dudes was just asking for disaster. He absolutely made the right call in sending those Genii to oblivion. HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 23:56
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Gaz-L posted:Where Carter says there's a minuscule chance of connecting to an inhabited alternate reality due to the infinite number of them? Except that means it's more like 50/50. There's infinity inhabited universes and infinity empty ones. That's not really how infinity works; I don't want to get into a derail but when you're talking about something like that, you want to think of how common something is in a finite subset as the size of the subset approaches infinity. Like if you picked a random integer (for the sake of example), you wouldn't expect to get something that's a perfect multiple of 136785 half the time, even though there's infinity integers that are a perfect multiple of 136785 and infinity integers that aren't.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:01
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:Yeah I'm pretty sure Jack would do that too, without a second thought. Really isn't that the whole point of the iris? "Oh hello it seems there's an invading force, rather than sacrifice our dudes to kill theirs lets just do the bugs on a windshield thing and save ourselves the manpower." As a tangent to this, in the episode of Atlantis where Teal'c and Ronin team up to smoke some Wraith blunts there's that point where the Wraith roll that device into the SGC that knocks out all the base personnel, but it doesn't do it the split second it emerges from the gate. In fact if I remember right Walter has enough time to go "what the hell" before it does it's thing. I kinda feel he should have taken a beating for this. If the gate is open and you're getting the right iris code but instead of an SG team coming thru you see an alien device you should be smashing the iris button straight away. SG teams always had to approve bringing back alien tech and if they didn't and just rolled it on ahead then they deserved to crash headlong into whatever unobtainum the iris was made out of. Yeah on second thought, Jack probably would do that. However, he was never written in a position where he did do something like that. There seems to be a large amount of implicit trust between civilizations that use gates to not kill people that way. It's just uncool.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:04
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Idran posted:That's not really how infinity works; I don't want to get into a derail but when you're talking about something like that, you want to think of how common something is in a finite subset as the size of the subset approaches infinity. Like if you picked a random integer (for the sake of example), you wouldn't expect to get something that's a perfect multiple of 136785 half the time, even though there's infinity integers that are a perfect multiple of 136785 and infinity integers that aren't. That actually makes it worse, though. How often have the SGC found inhabited alternate realities, compared to ones where there's literally no intelligent life? Even if you assume that's just because it's easier to contact ones similar to your own, that should ALSO make the experiment a bad idea. It's going to be a lot easier to gently caress up some other human race's universe than to not.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:12
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There really should be a lot fewer uninhabited realities because they would be "more deterministic", causing less branching.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:31
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The times that they've found alternate realities are unique situations. The Quantum Mirror requires the other reality to also have a mirror, which means that every single one that's shown would be inhabited (unless there's been a universal extinction event) The other times had to do with stargate malfunctions, which is the same thing.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:34
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The culmination of SG-1 is pretty much a case study in Manifest Destiny whereby Earth is the dominant military force in the Milky Way. gently caress the other kids, this is our sandbox and by god if I want to smash the entire 4th grade class into the monkey bars then I will.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:34
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Well, it's more than that. A major part of the stargate mythos is that humans as a biological form are an important evolutionary step towards ascension, which is the highest form of life that has evolved so-far. Humans have been shown to evolve independently more than once in different galaxies. Most humans in the milky-way besides the Tau'ri are at a huge disadvantage from being enslaved by the Goa'uld. So not just manifest destiny. Literal destiny. Intelligent design destiny.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:42
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Snak posted:There really should be a lot fewer uninhabited realities because they would be "more deterministic", causing less branching. That's not how alternate realities work (according to the dominant hypothesis of today, which is what stargate is or should be based on). Infinite realities come into being via quantum fluctuations in the void, and (hypothetically) follow a similar course as ours: a big bang. The myth that has floated around that new universes are created when we make a "choice" is just that, a myth. No alternate universe theory has ever been proven, of course, but one that suggests universes can be created from nothing by quantum fluctuations has scientific merit, while the "choice" one... does not. xerxus posted:The times that they've found alternate realities are unique situations. In atlantis they find an alternate Daedalus that is a drive that lets it travel between universes, it doesn't rely on the visited universes having some kind of technology. As far as I can remember about half the places they visit aren't obviously similar to their own universe, I think in one of them the planet didn't exist, and in another the sun had expanded into a red giant.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:45
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Snak posted:Well, it's more than that. A major part of the stargate mythos is that humans as a biological form are an important evolutionary step towards ascension, which is the highest form of life that has evolved so-far. Humans have been shown to evolve independently more than once in different galaxies. Most humans in the milky-way besides the Tau'ri are at a huge disadvantage from being enslaved by the Goa'uld. They really should make a Stargate show about a ship called Destiny.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:45
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Jul 26, 2014 00:50
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Taffer posted:In atlantis they find an alternate Daedalus that is a drive that lets it travel between universes, it doesn't rely on the visited universes having some kind of technology. As far as I can remember about half the places they visit aren't obviously similar to their own universe, I think in one of them the planet didn't exist, and in another the sun had expanded into a red giant. Did they say anything about if the realities (besides ours and the one the Daedalus came from) were inhabited or not? I think I must've missed that episode.
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Jul 26, 2014 00:54
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Idran posted:Did they say anything about if the realities (besides ours and the one the Daedalus came from) were inhabited or not? I think I must've missed that episode. One had another version of Atlantis/Shepard and team, another had some Frankenaliens or maybe that was the same one I dunno.
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Jul 26, 2014 01:00
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Taffer posted:That's not how alternate realities work (according to the dominant hypothesis of today, which is what stargate is or should be based on). Hey nerd, it should be based on whatever's most entertaining.
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Jul 26, 2014 01:10
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Idran posted:Did they say anything about if the realities (besides ours and the one the Daedalus came from) were inhabited or not? I think I must've missed that episode. IIRC, one had unknown hostile aliens that attacked, and in addition to the universe the Daedalus came from, an additional atlantis team (Shepard and co.) had boarded the ship and failed to stop it from jumping to other realities. So at least two were inhabited. http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/The_Daedalus_Variations_(episode) McSpanky posted:Hey nerd, it should be based on whatever's most entertaining. It's definitely based on the proper thing going by what happened in other episodes. 
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Jul 26, 2014 01:11
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OK, about halfway through This Mortal Coil and the double 'twist' is super-obvious. Weir's the real thing, isn't she?
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Jul 26, 2014 01:48
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Snak posted:Yeah on second thought, Jack probably would do that. However, he was never written in a position where he did do something like that. There seems to be a large amount of implicit trust between civilizations that use gates to not kill people that way. It's just uncool. I couldn't provide you a specific episode but I am about 95% certain there is at LEAST one 'SGC stands around and listens as gou'a'ld-of-the-week tries to send a bunch of jaffa through the gate but they go splat' scene in one of the early/middle seasons.
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Jul 26, 2014 02:20
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It did happen when not-Odo/Nazi guy kept sending people thru the gate and impacting the iris before the SGC told them they should probably stop.
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Jul 26, 2014 02:41
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WarLocke posted:I couldn't provide you a specific episode but I am about 95% certain there is at LEAST one 'SGC stands around and listens as gou'a'ld-of-the-week tries to send a bunch of jaffa through the gate but they go splat' scene in one of the early/middle seasons. It's one of the first episodes. Apophis keeps dialing up and sending dudes to invade and Daniel and Sam are sitting in the control room counting the thumps.
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Jul 26, 2014 02:55
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Taffer posted:That's not how alternate realities work (according to the dominant hypothesis of today, which is what stargate is or should be based on). Infinite realities come into being via quantum fluctuations in the void, and (hypothetically) follow a similar course as ours: a big bang. The myth that has floated around that new universes are created when we make a "choice" is just that, a myth. No alternate universe theory has ever been proven, of course, but one that suggests universes can be created from nothing by quantum fluctuations has scientific merit, while the "choice" one... does not. So yeah I mean it's not scientific, but
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Jul 26, 2014 03:00
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:It did happen when not-Odo/Nazi guy kept sending people thru the gate and impacting the iris before the SGC told them they should probably stop. That episode has aged weirdly well, because it's got a secondary theme about drone warfare beside it's 'Aryan eugenincists are bad' tale.
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Jul 26, 2014 03:27
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I just finished watching SG1, ark of truth and continuum. Should I watch Atlantis and Universe, or are they bad? I mean, I kinda want to watch Atlantis, but knowing that that smug scientist guy with the very punchable face plays a large role turns me off a bit. VVV Eh, fair enough. I'll give the first season a shot at least. Mymla fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jul 26, 2014 |
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Jul 26, 2014 20:06
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Mymla posted:I just finished watching SG1, ark of truth and continuum. Should I watch Atlantis and Universe, or are they bad? He's wayyyy better in Atlantis. I didn't like him at all in SG-1, but he's one of my favourites in Atlantis. Definitely watch it!
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Jul 26, 2014 20:11
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Most of McKay's hateability in SG-1 stems from his atrocious behaviour towards Carter, and she's not in Atlantis for the first 3 seasons (barring a few cameos and one major guest star ep) so they temper his arrogance as partly immature, insecure bluster. And the Storm 2 parter that's been mentioned a few times went a long way to endearing him to me. The torture and him desperately trying to talk them into keeping Weir alive, all while shielding her from Kolya's gun, were great moments.
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Jul 26, 2014 20:18
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I like how his favorite things to do on his days off are to make a huge sandwich and then sleep on the couch.
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Jul 26, 2014 20:27
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Mymla posted:
Both of their first seasons are their weakest, so if you're not sold after that, DEFINITELY watch the second seasons of both shows. This is especially the case with SGU.
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Jul 26, 2014 22:09
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Still hate the Pegasus gate design, though. Did no-one point out that it looks like the Wormhole X-Treme! prop?
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Jul 26, 2014 22:11
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Gaz-L posted:Still hate the Pegasus gate design, though. Did no-one point out that it looks like the Wormhole X-Treme! prop? Also the dialing animation makes no sense because it clearly just dials the same symbols every time. Since they don't move. They just light up. Wait till you get to SGU's gate design...
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Jul 27, 2014 00:55
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I've actually seen one ep of Universe, and it was one where they used the gate a lot... it looked fine? Kinda like the Milky Way gates but the lights are white?
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Jul 27, 2014 01:13
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Gaz-L posted:I've actually seen one ep of Universe, and it was one where they used the gate a lot... it looked fine? Kinda like the Milky Way gates but the lights are white? Yeah, but the entire thing spins, symbols and all, so it's usage makes no loving sense.
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Jul 27, 2014 01:14
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PriorMarcus posted:Yeah, but the entire thing spins, symbols and all, so it's usage makes no loving sense. It also can only be built into a floor or pedestal that never really looks like the design of ancient technology.
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Jul 27, 2014 02:09
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PriorMarcus posted:Yeah, but the entire thing spins, symbols and all, so it's usage makes no loving sense. but when it spins it's so much cooler
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Jul 31, 2014 00:16
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I'm the General, I want it to spin!
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Jul 31, 2014 00:49
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I kinda stalled out on the 'Rodney and Kaylee go on a date on Earth' episode, though the callback to the earlier episode where Carter played Who Would You Rather...? with Kaylee (OK, Dr Keller, I do know the character's name) was cute. And what's wrong with Zelenka?! OK, the hair-smelling thing is creepy, but why does everyone rag on his pigeons? Pigeons are cool! More unique than fixing old motorcycles and playing with remote control cars! (Seriously, the gag was funny, but it felt a lot like trying to justify why the audience should like McKay more, even though he's way goonier and creepier towards women.)
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Jul 31, 2014 01:00
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