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Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

George posted:

This is why Basch is the best main character in a Final Fantasy, and is also why FF6 has one of the best casts overall.

Greatest general of the Empire, Celes, an 18 year old girl.

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Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Nakar posted:

I really like everything about the International FFXII version except the jobs thing. It's kind of a hard sell for me, I hate irrevocable choices. Having said that, apparently the job license boards can be super stacked and so it's actually possible to end up with way more HP and stuff than you normally would in XII. That's kind of interesting. I just hate making bad choices...

As a whole, each character is less versatile in FFXII International, but they're stronger statistically.

A Black Mage is a lot stronger then a character you went and said "OK, I'm only going to use Black Magick with this character."

Edit: Removing the damage cap helped.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

That's partly due to the basic counter system they had in the combat. By making each monster type quickly identifiable you were easily able to tell what party member to use against them.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Pretty sure you need a build like that to even hold it.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Serifina posted:

...so this makes Quina the best character of FF9?

It's about time you realized the truth. :colbert:

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Zandar posted:

EDIT: Also, once you hit the damage cap on individual hits, there's no comparison. Somehow, FF designers never seemed to believe that people would get their damage that high.

One of the major changes in FFXII International was the removal on the damage cap. This drastically altered balance. For one thing it made Black Mage the best damage dealer in the game.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Elentor posted:

In the making of of Aladdin they talked about how each character had a distinct silhouette based on a different type of Arabian vase. It's fantastic.

A hallmark of good character design is a strong, yet simple, silhouette. You should be able to recognize a character just from their outline. This definitely applies to the FF7 characters.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Well, Tidus eventually takes his role as the main character.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

You can pretty much see the exact point in which Xenogears ran out of budget.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Lazy Shell is a program that edits SMRPG Roms.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Oh hey my favorite 8-bit Theatre strip ever.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

That's actually a pretty clever way to protect it. Anybody who's crazy enough to try and get the Black Materia ends up dead. If there weren't remote controlled robots and Sephiroth's crazy mind control stuff it'd honestly be pretty untouchable.


:allears: Oh Cloud you entertaining dick you.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

I assume they used some magic to change the Materia into a temple.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Canemacar posted:

You know, it's been said before, but Cloud is really a much better character than people give him credit for.

Really, this game is far more cleverly written then a lot of people give it credit for. It's really kind of sad how fan perception has warped the plot.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

I was spoiled but I did use her because, well, why not? She has the highest magic stat in a game in which magic is really good.

Plus I knew she'd be the best character when she suggested crossdressing. :allears:

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

penguinmambo posted:

But really, it would have been entirely fine to say "No noncrazy person would believe in that promised land bullshit" if not for the issue that even incredulous people like Hojo are willing to believe it.

I don't think using Hojo as an example of a "noncrazy person" really works.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Brainamp posted:

Wait, when did FF14 come out? It must have tanked hard for me not to even hear about it.

To put it simply, it was such a mess they took the original developers off the team and the director actually resigned a while ago. It was supposed to officially launch ages ago but was such a trainwreck they put it back into free to play beta.

Pity, because it had some cool ideas.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

It's honestly really hard to point at a single game in the series and go "yes, this is where everything changed forever" because really every single game built things up, and then you have sudden weird elements that are just odd.

1 was a D&D campaign with the serial numbers filed off.

2 was then this completely crazy experimental thing that became a different series entirely. But even then it was the first to try for a more "dramatic" plot.

3 Went back to 1... sort of. Except for the whole "Switch around jobs" thing.

4 heads back down to 2 to pick up the drama, but then makes each character a hodgepodge of several Jobs in FF3. It also introduces the ATB, which is in 7

5 then takes the idea of "changing jobs" and expands on it. Letting jobs learn abilities from other jobs changes everything.

6, like 4, takes the various jobs in 5 and mixes them into characters, with the odd ability taking the form of a relic. Magicite then gives each character the power to learn the core ability "Magic." A minor element of desperation attacks at low health is added as well. Finally, it takes the attempts at drama from 2 and 4 and finally fully internalizes them, and the series from now on will always be "dramatic."

Then we hit 7, which takes the Magicite and Desperation attacks from 6 and makes them the core element of the gameplay with Materia and Limit Breaks.

8 is, like 2, and odd experimental game. With things like Magic and Summons being your equipment, level scaling, etc. Event then it's descended from 7 in some ways.

9 is a throwback, and the game it's most like is actually 4. You have characters that are a mix of jobs with abilities mostly stable. Probably the least "Innovative" of the series, but deliberately so.

And so on and so on.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

They've been major parts of the story as early as FFIV.

They were introduced in FFIII.

Summons are important to the plot in more games then not.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

caleramaen posted:

They're not that important in XII. You get several Espers over the course of the main quest, but there is only one plot related point where you have to summon one. You have to summon the first Esper you get in order to open a door. Generally speaking, summons in XII sucked (with a couple of exceptions) largely because it was so difficult to get them to use their special attacks. So while they do have plot presence, it's made up for with the fact that most players don't use them that much.

They're a lot better in the International Version due to being able to control them.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

It was most likely Nintendo's policies in the SNES era. A reference to a cigarette brand is a no go!

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

zenguitarman posted:

Wait, what the gently caress is Y-Burn supposed to be?

Wyvern.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

When I played FFVII my logic was "Cloud's a cool ladies man."

So Aerith and Tifa.

Then, well....

Then Tifa and Yuffie.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Elentor posted:

I've been working on these real-time beauties for my job:


What exactly is your job anyways?

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...


I'm disappointed this seems to just be some quest item in FFXI rather then what Square does to RMT Gold buyers.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

There's also the dub for Ghost Stories. A rather mediocre horror anime that got a pretty funny joke dub.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Yeaaahhhh.

Cloud's having another psychotic break. Fun times, fun times.

It's interesting how Tifa didn't contradict Cloud when he was obviously telling a fake story.

You know, one great thing about the Nibelheim flashback Cloud tells is that it's playable.

This leads the player to trust it, since after all if you're playing it it must have happened, right? Leading to the revelation that it was all fake being even more shocking.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

GrizzlyCow posted:

That does begs the question; why doesn't Rufus fire their asses? They're all as incompetent and cartoony evil as his father.

They have really good contracts and the severance packages would cost more then they do working for him.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

FF7 wouldn't be near as interesting if it didn't have its oddball setting of magic and cities and a talking dog in your party.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Shiki Dan posted:

Lavos is almost like Deus in every possible way, just without the hackneyed religious symbolism of Xenogears.

What? No. Deus isn't like Lavos at all. Lavos is an alien monster, Deus was basically a JRPG interpretation of the Gnostic idea of the Demiurge.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Zinco posted:

The Hypello in Final Fantasy X are this exactly.

Except the Hypello are awesome. :colbert:

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

GrizzlyCow posted:

I don't know. It's better to cast Haste on your party than try to debuff the enemy with Slow, and Poison is always useful when it works.

Do both. :getin:

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

I think it's supposed to be that only the best of the best can survive/get superpowers from the process.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

I think he means you start getting the crazy endgame Materia. Ultimate spells and abilities.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Man I don't really remember this part.

But man that bit with Cloud freaking out when Tifa looked away is creepy.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

You know, if you think about it, the Shinra guys are right on one point.

This really is their fault.

If Tifa hadn't been hiding from reality to live in her fantasy world where there was this big strong knight to protect her and beat the bad guys, if Barret had just taken control and seen that Cloud was bad news. If Barret hadn't given Cloud the Black Materia, then Meteor wouldn't be about to kill them all.

Actually, I'd say the only one involved who's blameless is Cloud. Because he clearly doesn't have any control over his actions.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Mega64 posted:

If you think about it, the sanest person in the party is either the teenage talking dog or the person controlling a robot cat.

Aerith was probably the most well adjusted member of the party and seemed to know what to do.

And, welp...

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Pretty sure it has one pretty useful Materia in it as well as some nice weapons.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

Cloud survived!

Maybe.

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Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

I personally like the idea that all the Shinra higher ups have really good contracts.

It would cost Rufus more to fire them all then keep them on.

And if he kills them, welp the life insurance would kill him.

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