|
Take a plunge, ask me which weird instrument you should spend the next many summers learning. The sitar! From an old newbie thread I threw together awhile back. Tuning your Sitar Here is a diagram for tuning your sitar to C#. It might be easier to play with other instruments if you tune your Sa to C, but C# will sound better. More tension on the sympathetic strings means they'll ring out easier. The instrument just sounds a little crappier in C. code: If you follow this diagram to tune your sympathetic strings then you will be prepared to begin practicing in the bilaval thaata (essentially a parent scale). It is analagous to the ionian mode or major scales. While in the last few decades its become the "standard" scale, historically the kaafi thaata (dorian mode/minor scale) was the standard scale, and you can practice in this if you'd like but you'll need to shift one of your upper frets (your Ga fret) down a half step (to komal Ga). Or in western terms you need to shift the high E# fret down to an E. For the lower registers there are individual frets for komal Ga so you don't need to worry about that. To play in Kaafi you'll play komal ga and ni. At some point it would be helpful to acquire a tanboura. If you have an ipod or ipad just get the itabla-pro ap. Its 20 dollars but it has everything you'll need, tablas and tanboura. I've got a little digital raagini that I got off ebay from India and it puts out a great sound but it was a little pricier. Old sitar thread thats archived, w/ some info on finding your first sitar.
|
#
¿
May 31, 2011 01:08
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 08:29 |
|
|
There have been several other posts outlining bamboo flutes, but I wanted to share another perspective. Bansuri - Or the Indian transverse bamboo flute  In many respects this instrument is just the irish flute you may have already read about. They come in a range of keys and price ranges. You can find cheapy ones to learn on or you can actually invest a pretty penny in a flute made from a perfect and aged piece of bamboo would, grown on the graves of enlightened buddhist monks. One of the main differences from other common flute constructions is the 7th hole on the end. This is for your sharp 4th (referred to as Tivra Ma in Hindustani), and learning how to use it well is a big key to transitioning octaves and allowing meend (note bending, slides, glissandi) with all of your notes. Historically, the bansuri has a solid place as a folk instrument and as an iconic image in Hindu religion. The image of Krishna seducing the Gopi milkmaids with his bansuri playing is a popular one.  It is only within the last 60-70 years that the bansuri has been taken up as a serious instrument for playing Hindustani classical music. This can mostly be attributed to Pannalal Ghosh, who as a student of the maihar gharana, took bansuri seriously enough to perfect the technique necessary for genuine raga development with all the acoutrements and ornaments necessary for Hindustani, particularly bending notes pitches. Coming from such a serious lineage, others took notice and the bansuri has further gained popularity and credibility. For context, Ghosh's guru was Ustad Allaudin Khan, who was also the guru of Ali Akbar Khan (his son) and Ravi Shankar (who ended up becoming his son in law). With open holed flutes, the full range of microtonal possibilities are open to those willing to spend the time working on it. Here is an example of the current bigtime bansuri player, Hariprasad Chaurasia. Take note of how gracefully he can slide from pitch to pitch. Thats some smooth fingerwork. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5h19sgkuGk So if you want to find a bansuri there are plenty of good places to look. I started off on one in the Key of G, and paid somewhere around 30-40 dollars for mine, which was made by Bansi Jeff. I ordered mine from Buckingham music, but I know you can find them many places. The Ali Akbar College of Music store is also a good place to buy Indian instruments in general and bansuri's, they take great care in what they import and buy. When you get it, what should you start practicing? How to properly hold the instrument and make a good sound. I used this book to get up and running, and if you live near Chicago, Lyon Leifer is a nice guy, he'll teach you lessons if you ask (he charges of course). When I was visiting a friend there I took two sessions with him and he instantly spotted and set my hand positions straight.  Lyon is sitting all the way on the left, take a look at his hand position. When I started playing, I had a strong tendency to twist my left hand in, so that the flute was almost resting along my index finger, and for certain fingers I had to twist my wrist. This is bad, you want your hand position to be such that your wrists are steady and fairly fixed, and that you can easily lift your fingers from the flute without losing stability in your grip. Once you have basic hold down and can make a sound, work on keeping a steady tone and begin climbing to higher notes. You can reach higher octaves by blowing harder, but you'll start to learn that this is undesirable, and that your embouchre is a much better way to increase the speed of your air stream without causing your volume to shoot up and be shrill. When you're ready to start climbing up and down, you next want to work on making a smooth transition from one octave to the next across the break.  (There are additional fingerings for higher notes, lemme know if you want them, I only know up to high C, and on my flute thats a really high note, but I'm sure there are fingerings for higher pitches, particularly if you're on a deeper flute) So the scale you're going to want to practice (assuming a flute keyed to C) is the G major scale, basically C major scale with an F sharp. In Indian terms, you have Tivra Ma (on the chart its the Ma with a line on top). Notice how there are alternate fingerings for Tivra Ma. What you want to practice when going up/ascending, is when you get to Ga/E, rather than playing Tivra Ma/F# with the all holes open fingering, you want to play it with the all fingers down fingering, that way you can glissandi/meend from Tivra Ma/F# to Pa/G when you need to and it'll sound much smoother. On the way down/descending, you use the other, all holes open fingering for Tivra Ma/F#, allowing you to slide down to Ga/E. At first getting the right alternate fingerings for your break can be awkward, but it will pay dividends later. So that should get you started on the path. At first you want a flute keyed to C or G#, but later on you can play with different tonics. The end goal of the top level bansuri players is to play the larger, lower keyed flutes. These larger flutes can take some considerable "wingspan" on yours hands, so you'll need to work up to it. Part of the fun of these different instruments is that some of them come from deep tradition, and you can actually spend a lifetime learning new modes and ragas on this modest little instrument. Indian Classical Music is open to you without tracking down some other, more finnicky Indian instruments or finding a vocal coach. Also, one things thats helped me on this is that its easy to pick up and put down. So I can do short little bursts of practice several times throughout the day as I get bored. Slow scale, fast scale, minor keys, long tones, I just try to change it up but do a little regularly, and I feel happy with the progress I'm getting. If anyone goes this path and needs some raga chat, lemme know! Figuring it out from books alone can be a slog. I'm not super deep in and have only been practicing in a few of them, but I can help you orient yourself to start walking. Yiggy fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Jul 30, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Jul 30, 2011 10:07
|
|
|
Those high note fingerings sound similar to the flute's. For an alternate fingering for E3 you may try XX00X0. If that works, then use X0XX0X for F3 and X0X000 for G3.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 4, 2011 06:40
|
|
|
Sometimes I'll stand around with my accordion and play in lots of minor keys and pretend I'm a street performer in Paris. 
|
|
#
¿
Aug 17, 2011 20:49
|
|
|
Nuggan posted:Its not very exotic, but I've decided that today I'm going to go out and buy a violin and teach myself how to play it. First and foremost I want to congratulate and encourage you on your decision! Go forth and learn music. That said, I'd also encourage you to break out of the "I must learn this myself" mentality, particularly with an instrument like violin where posture, grip, and how you're holding things can make a long term difference on your success. AT LEAST commit to taking a handful of lessons so that a teacher can help you nail those out, and then proceed to keep learning on your own pace once you're on a proper footing. I say this as someone who used to think I could learn my own instrument of choice, all by myself (sitar). I was telling myself this because there just weren't a lot of teachers around, and because I was stubborn. At one point I decided I also wanted to teach myself another instrument (bansuri), and was much more confident in my ability to do so. On a lark, I took one lesson, and found out that despite spending lots of time studying pictures and books, I was holding the instrument wrong. That gave me a kick in the butt, so after a few years thinking I was making good progress with sitar (and I was, straight through the beginning stuff, and then precipitously slowing down from there) I eventually came around to wanting a teacher. That first lesson, within the first few minutes, my teacher saw and diagnosed things I was doing wrong with my hands. After she corrected that, I was picking up speed again and now feel very comfortable on my path, to the point where I could continue really learning the thing by myself (though after two years of lessons, I don't really want to, its so much faster when you can learn from someone else's mistakes). So if nothing else, take ONE lesson with a good teacher and see how it feels. Guidance is very useful. I admire the go it alone attitude, if you can keep harnessing and tapping into that kind of drive it'll serve you well, but don't discount how much a more experienced musician can show you, and how much time that'll save you. The time saved is worth the couple  you might spend.
Yiggy fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jan 7, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2012 18:17
|
|
|
Sitar and bansuri weren't my first instruments either. But playing guitar and trombone beforehand were exactly 0% helpful in picking them up and learning how to hold and play the things properly as they all had different shapes and techniques involved. The friends are likely going to be better than the books for that sort of thing, but just keep in mind they're only going to be as useful as their willingness to watch you learn and that depending on their skill level, their bad habits will become your bad habits. Sometimes you get what you pay for.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 7, 2012 22:08
|
|
|
Djembes are fun and good drums, hippy stigma or no. Taufiq Qureshi has some videos out there which go into good detail on adapting tabla technique and advanced rhythm for three stroke drums. He's Zakir Hussains brother and comes from a family of hereditary percussionists, so he a legitimate source of good information. Some of it is on YouTube but if you want to find the DVDs search for Ultimate Guru Music and his name. Djembes have essentially three bols. A low bass tone made by striking the center with some recoil in your hand. A similar strike towards the edge will give you a higher pitched, bright tone. The third bol is an open handed slap, no recoil in your strike. When you have the strikes down it's a trick of learning beat patterns an rhythmic cycles. There are some other tricks you can learn over time to add some color to your playing. One I'm fond of is bending the pitch of the drum. On a djembe you'll essentially apply some pressure to the skin with one hand when striking with the other. If your skin ha some elasticity you can come close to the swoops and woops you hear from tabla bayans. When you have basics down eventually get in the habit of playing in rhythmic cycles so your playing has cohesion and your not just mindlessly whaling away. Yiggy fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Apr 6, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Apr 6, 2012 15:46
|
|
|
As long as we're showcasing zithers I want to but in and talk up Santoors a little. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLkRSdbDRck The santoor is a 100 stringed zither based off of a version of the veena thats been around since the vedas. There are three strings per "note" and they're played with two small little metal hammers and occasionally strummed and plucked with the hand. You bounce the hammers off the strings, and there is a neat little trick where if you use a light hand it'll lightly bounce off the strings and create a wonderful sustain effect which can be used to create a strobing sort of meend.  Even though this instrument has been around a long time, its only in the last generation or two been well adapted to hindustani classical music, so its an instrument ripe for pioneers. It has a very enchanting sound. The above video showcases some of the slower style, but if you watch the later parts of that performance you'll see it has some impressive capabilities for fast play and rhythmic styles. Yiggy fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Apr 17, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2012 15:05
|
|
|
Are you a traveling ethnomusicologist or something? Or just a traveler? Are you traveling in search of the One Great Instrument? Is the world really sound? You're fascinating, TTFA
|
|
#
¿
May 8, 2012 20:50
|
|
|
BIGFOOT PEE BED posted:Speaking of which, the slide is maybe the only disadvantage, it's not very smooth at all but it's still very playable. What do you use to grease the slide? Back when I played this stuff was always the best. I've got an old trombone in my closet I've been wanting to play for the longest time, but a buddy of mine was a dumbass and dropped the slide, bowing it a little. It'll cost about as much to get repaired as... one of these pbones...
|
|
#
¿
May 28, 2012 16:04
|
|
|
For Austin, TX goons, I'm trying to raise money for a new instrument and so I'm trying to sell one of my old sitars. I originally bought it from Buckingham music, and it was one of their AA Krishna models. The strings have recently been changed. The string action on the high frets is a little high 2nd to a slight angle in the neck, but it sounds fine. I live in the Austin, TX area. Feel free to PM me for more info, you'll probably want to see if you can sit with the instrument first, I tried renting it to another older guitar player who wanted to learn from my teacher, but he couldn't manage to play comfortably. I can point you to some teachers in the area.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 27, 2012 01:59
|
|
|
Base Emitter posted:I initially expected to find these flutes to be limited because of their tuning, but in fact you can do a lot of pitch bending with partial fingering. I haven't experimented a lot (because I've mostly been trying to get that shakuhachi to sound). In regard to pitch bending the open keyed flutes are indeed superior to the keyed flutes, you can do all sorts of impressive slides and glides if you get your control down on curving on and off the open holes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QuDEx3_Ygo
|
|
#
¿
Jun 29, 2012 14:20
|
|
|
Calico Heart posted:I keep playing with the idea of getting a Sitar - however I'm self-taught with all my instruments, and I've heard sitar is incredibly difficult to master, so without some help I may end up lost. I mean, the thing has 21 strings and no matter who I ask I get conflicting reports on what tuning is "standard". Whether you want to explore sitar or not depends on your musical needs. In several ways it is a tall challenge, but a potentially rewarding one. You can make some decent progress on your own but its slow at first, and you really have to be proactive about doing your homework and tracking down good materials. The trick is, sitar playing really benefits from a firm basis in technique, and this can be difficult without a teacher. I began practicing and becoming familiar with the instrument making some ok progress, but eventually needed a teacher. That first lesson was the most valuable just for having my bad habits corrected, at which point I could have progressed a good distance further without a teacher. That said, if you have access to one, certainly take advantage of it. I'm glad I stuck with lessons. What area do you live in? There are actually more and more epicenters of Indian classical music springing up and you might be near to a place with some teachers. If you're interested in learning the sitar, but not learning Indian classical music, there are a few things to keep in mind. There is no reason you have to play Indian music on a sitar, however, the way it is built is tailored to ICM's strengths and vice versa. Its primarily an instrument that explores solitary melodic lines and ornamentations. Learning a style of music other than ICM would make it difficult to get in the practice of meending, bending notes and developing a fine ear for relative pitch which is essential for producing the sitar's distinctive sound. However, there is also something to be said about how learning ICM has helped broaden and deepen my appreciation and listening skills with the western music I like to listen to for fun. So, spending a lot of time learning this kind of music in a culture that doesn't have a lot of fellow fans or listeners can be lonely sometimes. Its not as easy to just jam with western musicians, because you're tuned a little sharp, used to modal playing, and missing a few frets which would simplify the instruments chromaticism. You also won't have as many attentive listeners. Especially once you start to understand the music, it becomes obvious that many of the listeners do not, even the willing ones. I believe creative minds can find a way to adapt the instrument to western sounds and playing, but its not going to be an easy project. ICM is a soloists genre, so if you can have fun playing by yourself you will find lots to explore. If you need others for musical fulfillment, it can be difficult until you reach the higher levels and need a tabla player for more than just playing the cycles. Picking up the sitar and learning Indian music has been one of the most fun and interesting chapters in my life, but its definitely going to take a little bit of dedication to learn should you decide to pick it up. If you have any questions about tracking down an instrument, Indian classical music, sitar practice routines, steps to take in learning etc, I'm more than happy to answer.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 31, 2012 01:50
|
|
|
I tuned my sitar up a half step to D and its a lot easier to find tunings that work better with western songs. I've noticed that fiddle parts in country and western tunes adapt well in some cases. I'm trying to figure out some Garth Brooks songs and its a lot of fun and a nice change of pace from classical gats.  Trying to match the right phrasing with the proper ornaments ought to give me something to practice and explore with too. Country and Eastern.
Yiggy fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Nov 16, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Nov 16, 2012 06:34
|
|
|
platedlizard posted:I've put some thought into tuning, right now I'm going to use violin strings with mandolin sympathetics and see how that works. Part of the issue is the expense, as you noted, but also because I'm not entirely sure I'm going to stick with hardanger tuning in the long term. Not sure if this might be helpful or not, but for sympathetic strings in Indian instruments you can buy coils of just the gauge you need. Sitar tends to use #0, or .009 gauge. Sarangi, also a bowed instrument, uses pretty much the same gauge, a mix of mostly .010 strings and two .008 strings. In mando packs I think the smallest string is gauged around .011, which isn't that far from what you'd need, but the other strings are going to be a little too thick and high tension once you get them tuned. Since you're not playing these strings and they stay in tune better, its good to have a light string. Whatever gauge you like, you can order a coil of it from Ali Akbar College Store. http://www.aacmstore.org/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=119&products_id=381
|
|
#
¿
Nov 30, 2012 16:06
|
|
|
I'll be happy to do an Indian Percussion post but I'm going to be out of town a little bit longer until next week. If you don't mind waiting I'll throw it together then.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2012 15:41
|
|
|
FloorCheese posted:I just found this thread via the banner - so nice job I've got a sheng and it is a little difficult to sound good on. The tonality is incredibly shrill, and the pipes have a very counterintuitive organization. I don't pick it up or work on it much because of this. The learning curve just isn't worth the sound, to me.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2013 22:48
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 08:29 |
|
|
Butch Cassidy, you and your attempts to infuse your children's lives with music is unequivocally awesome. But... Flutes are awesome too damnit  The unkeyed ones are just a deeper throated tin whistle, a much more deserving pipe for your ire.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 6, 2013 20:02
|
|