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Popular Thug Drink posted:Part of why I even care about gamergate is that I don't identify as a gamer because I find gamer culture and lifestyle pathetic. I am not defined by my hobbies or consumer choices, but I meet the general definition of a hardcore gamer. One of the funniest gamer misogynist grievance things is that timeline where year after year women make fun of the creator for playing videogames until they get into casual games and suddenly want to ban all games they don't like. The funniest part, aside from the sheet unreality and telling us way more about the creator that he meant to tell us, is that the timeline starts in 1995. Jack Gladney posted:Yeah, that seems much more like people suddenly learning what left politics actually are how belief systems inform behavior. It's the other side of growing up churchy in a small conservative town and seeing your gay friend actually get kicked out into the street by his parents and seeing your own parents refuse to help. I remember thinking I was super liberal and lefty right up until I (STEREOTYPE INCOMING) took a class on feminist ethics and epistemology which used radical lesbian feminist writers for most of the course texts, particularly Marilyn Frye's outstanding The Politics of Reality. Completely opened up my head and showed me just how small and blinkered and disorganized my understanding and politics had been to that point. It wasn't easy, though- when you're reading stuff that's basically way ahead of where you are and implying that where you are is in fact way shittier than you thought it was, it can feel like a personal attack. To somebody who's not approaching such an experience in a spirit of openness and inquiry, I can absolutely imagine it being incredibly psychologically painful top deal with, even if that doesn't excuse how the shitheads are dealing with it.
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Nov 19, 2014 22:50
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On one level I find this whole GamerGate thing incredibly idiotic. I mean video games and the surrounding geek culture have become so prevelant that I didn't think describing oneself as a gamer was a big deal. But on another I can't disagree that people on the Internet, especially in video games, can be really awful. I just assumed this is because people in general hold all sorts of awful beliefs, and the anonymity of the Internet just allows this to come out. With hundreds of millions of people playing games these days, I just don't see how mysoginists are anymore common there than any other thing that is predominately enjoyed by men. I also kind of just assumed that a vast majority of goons were gamers... On topic...did some one actually write in to a newspaper talking about Gamergate? This topic seems to be coming up in all the right-wing drekk threads on here.
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Nov 19, 2014 23:21
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Breitbart, Roosh V, Paul Elam and other rightwing shitheads have all scented that this is actually about white men defending their privilege and have jumped in on the side of the gaters.
7c Nickel fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Nov 20, 2014 |
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Nov 19, 2014 23:29
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VitalSigns posted:Plus like, it makes no sense. The Democrats don't want to ban videogames or ban titties in videogames. There's literally no reason to vote Republican over video games unless your real motive is banning abortions and birth control just to make women miserable. Some people never got over the mid 90s-2000s where it seemed like Democrats were complaining about violence in videogames.
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Nov 20, 2014 08:27
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Unless, as stated, you're actually fine with a theocracy banning your precious video games because you'd get to see them go after women.
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To be fair, as a person who plays violent video games and has played violent video games for a decade and a half, gamers are really loving myopic about the ways that violent video-games might be informing our perspectives on violence. It's sort of like goatse. The first time I saw goatse, I freaked the gently caress out (because I was like 12, but still). Goatse doesn't even phase me today, it's actually comforting in a weird way, like an old friend. It's literally as neutral as looking at a fruit bowl. I'm not sure that it's a good idea to get used to violent imagery like that, and I think that's what's happened to a lot of people.
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Nov 20, 2014 08:57
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Ogmius815 posted:To be fair, as a person who plays violent video games and has played violent video games for a decade and a half, gamers are really loving myopic about the ways that violent video-games might be informing our perspectives on violence. It's sort of like goatse. The first time I saw goatse, I freaked the gently caress out (because I was like 12, but still). Goatse doesn't even phase me today, it's actually comforting in a weird way, like an old friend. It's literally as neutral as looking at a fruit bowl. I'm not sure that it's a good idea to get used to violent imagery like that, and I think that's what's happened to a lot of people. It's amazing how many people can't tell the difference between "sexist/violent media can influence our attitudes toward gender/violence" and "VIOLENT/SEXIST MEDIA FORCES YOU TO KILL/RAPE PEOPLE" and think they can dismiss the former due to the obvious falsehood of the latter.
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Nov 20, 2014 10:36
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I am honestly still suprised that anyone would choose "gamer" as the core of their identidy. That`s as unhealthy as making" gourmet" the essence of who you are. Anyways the whole affair is tiresome, i never cared either way so i hope this whole thing blows over soon. That being said i am inclined to sympathize a tiny bit less with the side that`s making all the death threats.
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Nov 20, 2014 12:04
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Baudolino posted:I am honestly still suprised that anyone would choose "gamer" as the core of their identidy. That`s as unhealthy as making" gourmet" the essence of who you are. Anyways the whole affair is tiresome, i never cared either way so i hope this whole thing blows over soon. That being said i am inclined to sympathize a tiny bit less with the side that`s making all the death threats.  Gamers of the world, unite!
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Nov 20, 2014 12:15
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MariusLecter posted:
oh sick is briareos in a game?
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Nov 20, 2014 16:38
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MariusLecter posted:
I want to know what the thought process behind that picture's composition was. "How can I convince people to accept my whole identity revolving around a single hobby? I know, make a picture filled with dark, menacing figures who all look like their seconds from going on a violent rampage. That'll show them that I'm a well adjusted person."
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Nov 20, 2014 17:10
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The three people who have posted that image on my facebook are all incredibly hardcore losers. None of them have developed since High School and even then they were . . . damaged goods. Video games are a very recent medium and as low as you can possibly get when it comes to art. They are fun, I like playing them. But outside of learning to read and spell (thanks Roberta Williams!) or learning Caribbean geography and how piracy changed on the Spanish Main from the late 16th to the early 18th century (I'm aging myself here, insert whatever historical period games taught you about) there isn't really anything edifying about them. Which is too bad. Since it is an interactive medium it seems like there could be a lot of opportunities to present new ways of living and different experiences. I'm not looking for Ulysses or Proust here. Something on the level of Maus would be fine. But the Gamergate crowd is really pushing them "Michael Bay is a great artist" angle.
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Nov 20, 2014 17:43
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None of them real.
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Nov 20, 2014 18:16
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To be fair, if your life is nothing but a predefined, canned artifice meant to bring you superficial meaningless joy on your all-too-short trudge to the grave, might as well go whole hog and embrace video games.
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Nov 20, 2014 18:20
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SedanChair posted:None of them real. The more I see of these folks, the sorrier I feel for them. I mean, that doesn't excuse them threatening violence and whatnot, but it's pretty clear that most people who embrace the gamer identity (as opposed to people who just play games occasionally) have a lovely life with a dead-end job and, it would seem, a very limited social life. Apparently the only thing they can derive pleasure from are formulaic power/sex fantasies churned out by an industry that, by and large, knows how to push all the right buttons, because it finally gives them a feeling of control. Then, rightly or wrongly, someone comes along and tries to change this thing, the one thing in their life that isn't poo poo, and they throw a hissy fit. It's an incredibly sad way to go through life, frankly.
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Nov 20, 2014 18:30
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Shbobdb posted:Video games are a very recent medium and as low as you can possibly get when it comes to art. They are fun, I like playing them. But outside of learning to read and spell (thanks Roberta Williams!) or learning Caribbean geography and how piracy changed on the Spanish Main from the late 16th to the early 18th century (I'm aging myself here, insert whatever historical period games taught you about) there isn't really anything edifying about them. This I don't really agree with at all. Like any other medium they can be absolute poo poo, and are absolute poo poo a vast majority of the time, but calling them the lowest form of art is an insult to some very creative and talented individuals.
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Nov 20, 2014 18:46
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Baudolino posted:I am honestly still suprised that anyone would choose "gamer" as the core of their identidy. That`s as unhealthy as making" gourmet" the essence of who you are. Anyways the whole affair is tiresome, i never cared either way so i hope this whole thing blows over soon. That being said i am inclined to sympathize a tiny bit less with the side that`s making all the death threats. For the record, plenty of GamerGate supporters (more than 30, I believe) have been doxxed and received death and/or rape threats. There have also been two cases of attempted SWATting, both of which were aimed at GamerGate supporters. What isn't immediately clear is where these threats are coming from, since most of them are sent anonymously (though one of the aforementioned SWATting attempts was from an established blog of a known GamerGate opponent). There's been a lot of speculation that some of the worst stuff is coming from third party trolls who attack both sides in order to stir things up for the lulz. People have recently found evidence to support this claim, in the form of chat logs from GNAA trolls talking about how they're trolling "both sides of this internet war." Seriously, "clusterfuck" does not begin to describe the situation.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:07
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Uroboros posted:This I don't really agree with at all. Like any other medium they can be absolute poo poo, and are absolute poo poo a vast majority of the time, but calling them the lowest form of art is an insult to some very creative and talented individuals. I think it's fair to say video games have a higher ratio of low to high art than other mediums. That's partly just because it's a more popular medium than books or movies, but it's still true
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Nov 20, 2014 19:09
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PT6A posted:The more I see of these folks, the sorrier I feel for them. I mean, that doesn't excuse them threatening violence and whatnot, but it's pretty clear that most people who embrace the gamer identity (as opposed to people who just play games occasionally) have a lovely life with a dead-end job and, it would seem, a very limited social life. Apparently the only thing they can derive pleasure from are formulaic power/sex fantasies churned out by an industry that, by and large, knows how to push all the right buttons, because it finally gives them a feeling of control. Then, rightly or wrongly, someone comes along and tries to change this thing, the one thing in their life that isn't poo poo, and they throw a hissy fit. It's an incredibly sad way to go through life, frankly. I wonder what would happen if the anime industry were confronted this way in Japan.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:34
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I mean, none of this even has anything to do with people who play video games. It doesn't have anything to do even with people who play videogames to an obsessive degree, or to the exclusion of having a social life. It has only to do with reactionaries who feel like people are trying to take their poo poo. As usual, reactionaries are incredibly sad and limited individuals.
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Nov 20, 2014 19:38
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VideoTapir posted:I wonder what would happen if the anime industry were confronted this way in Japan. The problem with anime in my experience is just Japan itself. Even the stuff that has some artistic merit and that an adult might not be ashamed to watch has the occasional bout of hilarious sexism. I think Miyazaki is just a gross anomaly unfortunately
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Nov 20, 2014 19:57
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SedanChair posted:I mean, none of this even has anything to do with people who play video games. It doesn't have anything to do even with people who play videogames to an obsessive degree, or to the exclusion of having a social life. It has only to do with reactionaries who feel like people are trying to take their poo poo. As usual, reactionaries are incredibly sad and limited individuals. Yep, somewhere along the line, being a "gamer" stopped being about playing games, and started being something else entirely. It's awkward, in a sense, because I'd still say "yes, I'm a gamer" if asked until a little while ago, inasmuch as I'm a person who plays video games. But, no, apparently now I'm supposed to play games constantly and be familiar with every game (but only "hardcore" titles, of course) released in the past loving decade and be able to talk about it.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:10
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icantfindaname posted:The problem with anime in my experience is just Japan itself. Even the stuff that has some artistic merit and that an adult might not be ashamed to watch has the occasional bout of hilarious sexism. I think Miyazaki is just a gross anomaly unfortunately I recently decided to see what was up with the latest Metal Gear; I forgot about the series after finishing 4. The series has always been moderately sexist but really Quiet seems to just be the developers letting it all hang out.
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Nov 20, 2014 20:17
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I remember there was like a Kotaku article interviewing Kojima, and during lunch with the journalist he was smoking a cigar and sexually harassing the waitresses like there was nothing at all unusual about it
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Nov 20, 2014 20:20
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icantfindaname posted:I remember there was like a Kotaku article interviewing Kojima, and during lunch with the journalist he was smoking a cigar and sexually harassing the waitresses like there was nothing at all unusual about it One of those things is not like the other...
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Nov 20, 2014 20:23
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icantfindaname posted:I remember there was like a Kotaku article interviewing Kojima, and during lunch with the journalist he was smoking a cigar and sexually harassing the waitresses like there was nothing at all unusual about it Kojima buying lunch for a journalist? Ethics in game journalism.  This is how all journalism works. 
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Nov 20, 2014 21:31
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Tezzor posted:have you ever noticed that libertarian-minded folks argue that we don't need hate speech or anti-discrimination laws because social pressures, criticism, and the market are sufficient, and then when people start using those things to combat bigotry, the selfsame crackers start crying about how it's a cruel imposition anyway? it's almost as if they are shitheads making up whatever lame excuses are convenient
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Nov 21, 2014 16:34
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Uroboros posted:This I don't really agree with at all. Like any other medium they can be absolute poo poo, and are absolute poo poo a vast majority of the time, but calling them the lowest form of art is an insult to some very creative and talented individuals. Low art isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like most things, due to the post-modern world we inhabit, the distinction between high and low art has gotten blurred [blah blah blah Banksy blah blah blah Art Spiegelman] such that "low" art isn't an insult. But who is trying to elevate the medium? What is the Battleship Potemkin of video games? Who is the Fritz Lang? What is the equivalent of Italian neorealism? What can video games teach me about the human condition?
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Nov 21, 2014 17:18
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Shbobdb posted:Low art isn't necessarily a bad thing. Like most things, due to the post-modern world we inhabit, the distinction between high and low art has gotten blurred [blah blah blah Banksy blah blah blah Art Spiegelman] such that "low" art isn't an insult. But who is trying to elevate the medium? What is the Battleship Potemkin of video games? Who is the Fritz Lang? What is the equivalent of Italian neorealism? What can video games teach me about the human condition? I'm not sure if you're being rhetorical, but I think ice-pick lodge studios fits the bill. Particularly their games Pathologic, The Void, and Knock knock. RPS has a great review of Pathologic that I think highlights a lot of what IPL tries to do with their games here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/04/10/butchering-pathologic-part-1-the-body/ Martian Manfucker fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 17:22
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nozh posted:I'm not sure if you're being rhetorical, but I think ice-pick lodge studios fits the bill. Particularly their games Pathologic, The Void, and Knock knock. As good as IPL is, their games are difficult to play and even harder to find in the US. The problem with games is that they best support non-traditional forms of narrative. Game developers haven't yet figured out how to fuse narrative and gameplay in a way that elevates video games above visual novels or NPCs shouting exposition at you as you pick from a few canned options, while also being approachable to non-enthusiasts. Max Payne 2 was legitimately good. Max Payne 3 wasn't bad, but it didn't have nearly the same narrative punch. And then you end up with games like Gone Home, which do try to push the boundaries but get massively criticized for being too different. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 18:02
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A great article, thanks! Though I think it is funny that it literally started out by pointing out a potential problem with gaming journalism and a quip about "seducing" chicks.
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Nov 21, 2014 18:19
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Popular Thug Drink posted:As good as IPL is, their games are difficult to play and even harder to find in the US. Play The Void.  It's their only game I'd unironically recommend to most anyone. I mean, the resource management is still pretty tough, but it's incredibly artistic and cool while being more-or-less approachable.
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Nov 21, 2014 18:26
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Additionally, while you have a lot of video games that are just Shootbang: the Warfighter, you're starting to see more that have different viewpoints or less glorifying approaches to the idea. Spec Ops: The Line is the big, big name here, and recently one's come out called This War Of Mine where you play as a civilian in a besieged city trying to survive.
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Nov 21, 2014 21:35
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Redeye Flight posted:Additionally, while you have a lot of video games that are just Shootbang: the Warfighter, you're starting to see more that have different viewpoints or less glorifying approaches to the idea. Spec Ops: The Line is the big, big name here, and recently one's come out called This War Of Mine where you play as a civilian in a besieged city trying to survive. It's not even that, there's just fewer games about war. That's what the big fear has been for the past decade, that "hardcore" games would stop being made because it was easier and cheaper to make dumb baby games
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Nov 22, 2014 03:25
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Which is bullshit. This generation we've had:
Hardcore gaming has never been stronger. If they're seriously trying to put that forth as an argument then I don't know what new drugs they're snorting.
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Nov 22, 2014 03:40
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Redeye Flight posted:Additionally, while you have a lot of video games that are just Shootbang: the Warfighter, you're starting to see more that have different viewpoints or less glorifying approaches to the idea. Spec Ops: The Line is the big, big name here, and recently one's come out called This War Of Mine where you play as a civilian in a besieged city trying to survive. But the problem for shooters is that no matter how good the single player is, multi is the thing actually played. And I doubt Spec Ops drags in a better crowd than CoD or Ghost Ops or whatever Oorah game is out this month. EDIT: computer parts posted:It's not even that, there's just fewer games about war. That's what the big fear has been for the past decade, that "hardcore" games would stop being made because it was easier and cheaper to make dumb baby games I see a decent amount of fear being that based on how much AAA gaming has run up its own rear end these last few years. The costs of making these games has ballooned, to the point that nobody takes risks in their design since there's huge amounts of cash at stake. So for a full console generation (basically from the start of the PS3/360 era) you've seen the core gamer be 100% catered to. Now they're afraid that some group that requires a bunch less resources to dev for (nobody worried about the poly count in candy crush saga) will start to get attention paid to it, and they may get a bunch less idiot shooters or whatever exactly you want call the blob of "mass appeal" games that get poo poo out by major studios. I think it shows how overextended the market is right now, and a bunch of these basement dwellers halfway realize that this isn't sustainable if anything shifts a bit out of their favor. Add to it that mass appeal became focusing on the worst of the "young men on the internet" demographic, and you realize when people rightly start taking their drat toys away they start acting like spoiled manchildren. rkajdi fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Nov 22, 2014 |
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Nov 22, 2014 03:41
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computer parts posted:It's not even that, there's just fewer games about war. That's what the big fear has been for the past decade, that "hardcore" games would stop being made because it was easier and cheaper to make dumb baby games This argument, of course, relies on the idea that Call of Duty XXIIV: Serious Warfighter edition isn't itself a dumb baby game. Last time I played a Call of Duty was the one where you're a random astronaut who watches the ISS get nuked for no reason at all, functionally no reason except it looks kind of cool, and I was embarrassed for gaming. Pierson posted:Hardcore gaming has never been stronger. If they're seriously trying to put that forth as an argument then I don't know what new drugs they're snorting. Yeah for real. The explosion of indie games leads to stuff like Depression Quest as well as ridiculous turbonerd genre pulp which is largely a Good Thing, so decrying the death of gaming is objectively pretty dumb and kind of clearly identifiable as a lament that gaming isn't an exclusive virgin club anymore.
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Nov 22, 2014 03:44
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Pierson posted:[*]Kickstarter and crowd-funding resurrecting the space-combat genre from a grave nobody thought it would ever climb out of. As someone working in sales, I agree that an effective pitch is an art all its own. But while a good pitch is art, the reason why it is art is that the product is immaterial. Actually, I take that back. I was asking the wrong question. Chris Roberts is sort of a fusion of Dali-Duchamp-MacGregor fusion. I can get behind this poo poo!
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Nov 22, 2014 11:09
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rkajdi posted:But the problem for shooters is that no matter how good the single player is, multi is the thing actually played. And I doubt Spec Ops drags in a better crowd than CoD or Ghost Ops or whatever Oorah game is out this month. Spec Ops only had a very bad multiplayer component that no one played because the publisher demanded one to improve sales. Multiplayer is the single source of longevity and revenue in these games and it is sort of amazing that Cod et al even bother with a single player game at this point.
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Nov 24, 2014 22:56
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Spec Ops only had a very bad multiplayer component that no one played because the publisher demanded one to improve sales. Multiplayer is the single source of longevity and revenue in these games and it is sort of amazing that Cod et al even bother with a single player game at this point. What makes online gaming so attractive? Is it the legions of utter morons you can encounter? The thrill of being called a "friend of the family human being jew" by someone whose voice hasn't dropped yet? I deal with enough morons in my day-to-day life, I want my recreational activities to be as free from them as possible.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:03
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PT6A posted:What makes online gaming so attractive? Is it the legions of utter morons you can encounter? The thrill of being called a "friend of the family human being jew" by someone whose voice hasn't dropped yet? I deal with enough morons in my day-to-day life, I want my recreational activities to be as free from them as possible. Community and competition. You get into guilds or clans or whatever, chatting and getting to know one another, reminiscing about one awesome game or another, beating your opponents, beating your online friends, etc. Gaming and games can and do have communities, unfortunately lots and lots of them are really horrible ones and they only look horrible from the outside. Reforming them is also kind of hard because you've got to be willing to sacrifice your free time to try and get strange people who you'll never meet and have no authority over to actually improve their behaviour when you can just not play that game any more.
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Nov 24, 2014 23:18
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