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Radish
Aug 13, 2003

not so ruff onichan

After posting in the D&D thread I was recommended to taking a Valorous bard instead of a Prescient one due to our lack of dedicated healers and defenders. I don't have as much experience but after reading the bard charop thread I went with a melee guy that multiclassed into swordmage to get access to using swords as implements in addition to another damage reducing interrupt. Also with the swordbond abilities I figure I can start making ranged attacks with the sword then call in back as a minor to get access to some of the cooler ranged bard abilities. We are starting at level 4 but I think this is the direction I want him to go. I haven't upgraded his weapons yet.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Freddy, level 11
Half-Elf, Bard, War Chanter
Build: Valorous Bard
Bardic Virtue: Virtue of Valor
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Instrument)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 19, Dex 11, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 21.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 13, Wis 11, Cha 16.


AC: 22 Fort: 20 Reflex: 19 Will: 22
HP: 81 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 20

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +12, Diplomacy +17, Streetwise +15, Bluff +15, Intimidate +15, Athletics +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Dungeoneering +7, Endurance +9, Heal +7, History +8, Insight +9, Nature +7, Perception +7, Religion +8, Stealth +5, Thievery +5

FEATS
Bard: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Combat Virtuoso
Level 2: Heart of the Blade
Level 4: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 6: Versatile Expertise
Level 8: Acolyte Power
Level 10: Improved Swordbond
Level 11: Versatile Master

POWERS
Bard at-will 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard at-will 1: War Song Strike
Dilettante: Twin Strike
Bard encounter 1: Shout of Triumph
Bard daily 1: Stirring Shout
Bard utility 2: Canon of Avoidance (retrained to Channeling Shield at Acolyte Power)
Bard encounter 3: Song of the New Dawn
Bard daily 5: Timeless Trek in Mithrendain
Bard utility 6: Chord of Resilience
Bard encounter 7: Scorpion's Claw Strike
Bard daily 9: Wail of Anguish
Bard utility 10: Mantle of Unity

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Farbond Spellblade Bastard sword +1, Bloodclaw Short sword +1, Amulet of Protection +1, Magic Chainmail +1, Lute
RITUALS
Traveler's Chant, Brew Potion
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

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Chaotic Neutral
Aug 28, 2011


Swordbond isn't necessary (and is to be honest absolutely useless even when you get it for free), because magical weapons auto-return when thrown.

Radish
Aug 13, 2003

not so ruff onichan

Really? I thought it was a standard action to get it to return and the magic weapon just let you call it from a longer distance or something.

If that's true that's cool since it's an extra feat to be used on something better.

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!


Magic *thrown* weapons auto-return.

Swordbond is rarely useful in combat, but can be very nice in some RP situations, when you've been deprived of your weapon for whatever reason. Keep a small shard of it in a safe place (snap a bit off the crossguard, take a chip out of the blade), it even works if the weapon is broken/nommed by a rust monster.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.


Okay, tell me what I'm missing. We're generally disallowed Dragon content and Essentials books, so I can't go into abusing holy symbol expertise. The goal is to make a monk that does huge burst attacks by using Divine Orator and Resounding Thunder, while still being able to create CA for himself and survive modestly well in most situations.

Shirai of the Mountains, level 21
Elf, Monk, Devoted Orator, Grandmaster of Flowers
Build: Centered Breath Monk
Monastic Tradition: Centered Breath
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 13, Dex 28, Int 12, Wis 22, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8.


AC: 36 Fort: 31 Reflex: 36 Will: 33
HP: 138 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 34

TRAINED SKILLS
Perception +28, Acrobatics +23, Thievery +23, Stealth +28, Religion +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +11, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +10, Dungeoneering +16, Endurance +11, Heal +16, History +11, Insight +16, Intimidate +10, Nature +18, Streetwise +10, Athletics +11

FEATS
Level 1: Deadly Draw
Level 2: Coordinated Explosion
Level 4: Superior Implement Training (Accurate dagger)
Level 6: Solid Sound
Level 8: Nimble Blade
Level 10: Acolyte of Divine Secrets
Level 11: Starblade Flurry
Level 12: Defensive Advantage
Level 14: Uncanny Dodge
Level 16: Resounding Thunder
Level 18: Mark of Passage
Level 20: Paragon Defenses
Level 21: Enlightenment's Blessing
Level 21: Balanced Mind

POWERS
Acolyte of Divine Secrets: Visions of Blood
Monk at-will 1: Five Storms
Monk at-will 1: Steel Wind
Monk encounter 1: Drunken Monkey
Monk daily 1: Masterful Spiral
Monk utility 2: Agile Recovery
Monk encounter 3: Eternal Mountain
Monk daily 5: Spinning Leopard Maneuver
Monk utility 6: Centered Defense
Monk encounter 7: Grasping Tide
Monk daily 9: Crane Dance
Monk utility 10: Iron Dragon Defense
Monk encounter 13: Furious Bull (replaces Eternal Mountain)
Monk daily 15: Mithral Tornado (replaces Spinning Leopard Maneuver)
Monk utility 16: Diamond Mind
Monk encounter 17: Steps of Grasping Fire (replaces Drunken Monkey)
Monk daily 19: Rising Dragon Fire (replaces Masterful Spiral)

Edit: This is built showing a few basic magic items assumed, which is why the defenses are where they are.

theironjef fucked around with this message at Sep 26, 2011 around 05:42

-Fish-
Oct 10, 2005

Glub glub.
Glub glub.



The Dark Sun group I DM for is nearing Paragon tier and the party's Pyromancer Elemental Priest is thinking Smoking Crown Initiate for her PP.
The party's Gloomblade has gotten really pronehappy with the advent of Flail Expertise, so that would stack really well with the Lvl 12 Utility, and the damage from the powers isn't bad.
What do you guys think?

MoroniK
Feb 24, 2006


So I'm not going to post the whole build, mostly because I don't have a ddi subscription and it would be a pain in my rear end. But for shits and gigs I've tried to optimize my storm sorcerer mc bard, voice of thunder/draconic incarnation. Here is a level 30 nova round for your enjoyment. This is my first optimization attempt (just started playin dnd a couple months ago. If you guys see room for improvement, let me know.

feats:
mark of storm: on a hit with a thunder power, slide 1
superior implement proficiency; quickbeam staff: increase forced movement by 1 sq
walk among the fey: bard epic, teleport instead of slide
resounding thunder: increases radius of bursts or blasts by 1
arcane admixture, thunder: blazing starfall

so on any thunder power hit, I can teleport 2 squares. also note that my static bonus to thunder powers hovers around 50

round 1
minor| sorcerous pulse (reroll the damage on any thunder keyword power, use either result *UNTIL END OF ENC*)
standard| rolling echo (push 2 teleport 2)
move| strut around like a baus

round 2
free| rolling echo (2d6+50)
minor| arcane empowerment (increases radius of bursts or blasts by 1)
action point| gain a standard, and through voice of thunder pp increases radius of bursts or blasts by 1
free| gain 2 minor actions through the epic ring
minor| haste (level 16 bard utility, gain and use a standard action)

*if youre keeping track, by this point all thunder powers have their radius increased by 3 squares. 3 standard actions and one minor action remain*

standard| elemental maw (wizard 25)
*area burst 7*
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
Hit: 6d6 + Intelligence modifier damage of a type chosen
from the following list: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or
thunder. In addition, the target is pulled 2 squares toward
the maw’s origin square.
Miss: Half damage, and no pull.
Effect: This attack’s origin square becomes a vortex of
energy. The burst creates an area of difficult terrain. The
effect remains until the end of your next turn. Any crea-
ture that is pulled into the vortex takes 3d6 + Intelligence
modifier damage of a type chosen from the following list:
acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. In addition, you tele-
port that creature to a square within 20 squares of you.
The creature arrives at its destination prone and dazed
until the start of your next turn.

chances are that this misses every target. no big deal, it still does half damage. the whole map is difficult terrain now- which is fine because my slides become teleports- and the maw appears at the center. the idea from here on out is to teleport creatures into the maw and spit them back out adjacent, only to repeat the process a few times. each time they take 3d6 (rolled twice) plus (my int modified damage is 40 instead of 50) damage.

standard| wrathful vapors
*area burst 5*
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Charisma
VS. Fortitude or Reflex (choose one
defense for each target)
Hit (Fortitude):
3d6 + Charisma modifier cold and thunder
damage, and you slide the target a number of squares
equal to your Dexterity modifier.
Hit (Reflex): 3d6 + Charisma modifier lightning damage.
Each creature adjacent to the target takes 2d6 + your
Dexterity modifier acid damage.
Miss (Fortitude
or Reflex): Half damage.

this gathers them into the maw, with a teleport of (dex mod) 6+ 1. 6d6+ 90 damage to everything hit, spitting them out within 2 squares of the maw.

standard| hellish firestorm
*area burst 5*
Target: Each creature in burst
Storm Magic: You can choose not to target a creature in
the origin square of the burst.
Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude
Hit: 3d10 + Charisma modifier thunder
damage, and on-going 10 fire damage (save ends).
Miss: Half damage, and ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends)

on hit, 3d10+ 3d6 + 90 damage

free| staff of the quickening daily (use an at will as a free action after a daily arcane resolves)
blazing starfall
*area burst 4*
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Charisma vs.Reflex
Level 21: 2d4 + Charisma modifier radiant damage.

on hit, 2d4+ 3d6+ 90 damage

minor| quickened spellcasting
blazing starfall
*area burst 4*
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Charisma vs.Reflex
Level 21: 2d4 + Charisma modifier radiant damage.

on hit, 2d4+ 3d6+ 90 damage

total damage, assuming all hits, is (6d6+40)/2 + 14d6 +3d10+ 4d4 + 410 = 543 median damage, although you'd assume slightly higher, considering i get to roll set of damage die twice and choose the better result. on crits, which occur on 19 and 20, my crit dice automatically max, dealing an extra 60 damage through the staff of ruin.

does anything survive this?

MoroniK fucked around with this message at Sep 26, 2011 around 19:25

Chaotic Neutral
Aug 28, 2011


Unless it's an elite brute or a solo, it's pretty much dead.

Drewjitsu
Sep 2, 2007

Muay Thai is great but Buttscoot-Shin-to-Balls Style is undeniably better.


MoroniK posted:


does anything survive this?

Just so you are aware, a 30 level solo (Allabar, Opener of the way) has 1100 hps.

As per CharOp, if you have an nova which uses just Encounters, you should be able to take out an elite (like a Sire of Corruption - 530HP), and if you use all your dailies in your nova, it should take out a solo.

BUT

Since you're doing AoE, consult the following handy table:

Calculate your per target DPR and multiply it by the number in the table depending on if your AoE is friendly or not. See this[filled out later] post to figure out how to handle Sorcerous Flux, Sage of Ages...

code:
Squares       Friendly     Unfriendly
4  (2x2)       1.2             1.1
9  (3x3)       1.45            1.3
16 (4x4)       1.8             1.5
25 (5x5)       2.25            1.7
36 (6x6)       2.8             1.9
49 (7x7)       3.45            2.1
64 (8x8)       4.2             2.3
81 (9x9)       5               3
a 9x9 is the cap.

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007


speaking of mark of the storm cheese, I've been thinking of a dragonborn fighter build using the following feats plus a thundering flail:

mark of the storm, flail expertise, dragging flail, dragonborn arrogance.

Now I know most dm's would houserule this away but our dm has challenged us to come up with the craziest level 16 builds we can think of, and an infinite damage loop seems pretty crazy to me, I haven't gotten the full build together yet but I wanted to get thoughts, but here is how the build works

I hit with a weapon attack that has gainded the thunder/lighting keyword through the thundering flail
mark of the storm says I get to slide
Flail expertise says I get to turn the slide in a knock prone
dragonborn arrogance says whenever you prone, deal damage equal to your strength mod
then dragging flail says whenever I prone I can slide 1
Flail expertise says I get to turn the slide in a knock prone
dragonborn arrogance says whenever you prone, deal damage equal to your strength mod
then dragging flail says whenever I prone I can slide
etc
.
.
.

Any thoughts?

Really Pants
May 20, 2005

What's...where's...how do I even begin to describe your pants/underwear situation?!
You couldn't make your pants any lower, so you made pants for each leg! SAY IT!

Madmarker posted:

Any thoughts?

You can't prone something that's prone already, but Expertise/Lash/Arrogance looks like a good combo.

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007


Really Pants posted:

You can't prone something that's prone already, but Expertise/Lash/Arrogance looks like a good combo.

why can't I knock something prone that is already prone, is their a rule that says it? not being a dick I just have yet to hear of that rule

Amidiri
Apr 26, 2010


For the same reason you can't blind someone that's already blind. The idea is that you've already knocked the guy down- he is on the floor, you can't put him down there again without him getting up first.

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007


Amidiri posted:

For the same reason you can't blind someone that's already blind. The idea is that you've already knocked the guy down- he is on the floor, you can't put him down there again without him getting up first.

But you can blind someone who is already blind, if you inflict blind save ends twice they have to save against both instances of blind, though I do understand your logic there, I am knocking him prone I can't make him any more prone than he already was but I can keep knocking him prone at least that was how I saw it so this idea is throwing me for a bit of a loop

Madmarker fucked around with this message at Sep 26, 2011 around 21:53

Really Pants
May 20, 2005

What's...where's...how do I even begin to describe your pants/underwear situation?!
You couldn't make your pants any lower, so you made pants for each leg! SAY IT!

You can load a target down with multiple save-ends effects that share the same condition, but those conditions still don't stack at all. Once something is prone, knocking it prone again does nothing until it stands back up.

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007


Really Pants posted:

You can load a target down with multiple save-ends effects that share the same condition, but those conditions still don't stack at all. Once something is prone, knocking it prone again does nothing until it stands back up.

I'm not arguing that the condition itself stacks, just that I am inflicting it multiple times allowing the loop to occur

Really Pants
May 20, 2005

What's...where's...how do I even begin to describe your pants/underwear situation?!
You couldn't make your pants any lower, so you made pants for each leg! SAY IT!

Madmarker posted:

I'm not arguing that the condition itself stacks, just that I am inflicting it multiple times allowing the loop to occur

Because prone doesn't stack, you can't inflict it multiple times.

J. Alfred Prufrock
Sep 9, 2008


Madmarker posted:

But you can blind someone who is already blind, if you inflict blind save ends twice they have to save against both instances of blind

This is not true, check pages 228-229 of the RC.

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007


J. Alfred Prufrock posted:

This is not true, check pages 228-229 of the RC.
oh its a pity infinite damage doesnt work, oh well, kulkor it is

Drewjitsu
Sep 2, 2007

Muay Thai is great but Buttscoot-Shin-to-Balls Style is undeniably better.


What's a good theme for an eladrin Illusionist? I'm rocking Illubriyen Guardian, which is pretty cool and all, but is there anything better?

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Hey, charop folks. After several months of being in my first 4e campaign ever(everyone's first including the DM's, actually), I just lost my character, a pretty well optimized human dual blade ranger, to a major plot event. I'd like to resume my striker role with something a little bit more involved than "twin strike, end turn" interspersed with periodic thermonuclear explosion nova rounds. I decided I wanted to make a charge based character, and after reading this thread and the WotC CharOp forums for a while I've come up with this:

---
Eir Ejvor, level 10
Elf, Avenger
Avenger's Censure: Censure of Pursuit
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Spear)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Elf Subrace: Standard Elf Racial Traits
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 13, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 20, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 13, Dex 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.


AC: 26 Fort: 21 Reflex: 23 Will: 24
HP: 88 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +11, Acrobatics +15, Stealth +15, Perception +18, Heal +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +10, Endurance +6, History +5, Insight +10, Intimidate +4, Nature +12, Streetwise +4, Thievery +9, Athletics +7

FEATS
Level 1: Power of Skill
Level 2: Battle Awareness
Level 4: Weapon Proficiency (Gouge)
Level 6: Polearm Momentum
Level 8: Surprising Charge
Feat User Choice: Versatile Expertise
Feat User Choice: Improved Defenses
Level 10: Unarmored Agility

POWERS
Avenger at-will 1: Radiant Vengeance
Avenger at-will 1: Overwhelming Strike
Avenger encounter 1: Whirlwind Charge
Avenger daily 1: Aspect of Might
Avenger utility 2: Refocus Enmity
Avenger encounter 3: Fury's Advance
Avenger daily 5: Menacing Presence
Avenger utility 6: Aspect of Agility
Avenger encounter 7: Relentless Stride
Avenger daily 9: Bloody Blades
Avenger utility 10: Wings of Vengeance

ITEMS
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Staggering Gouge +3, Boots of Adept Charging (heroic tier), Horned Helm (heroic tier), Badge of the Berserker +2, Antipathy Gloves (heroic tier), Symbol of Hope +1, Avandra's Boon of Escape (level 3), Flowform Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2, Davros Elden's Defensive Step (heroic tier), Potion of Healing (heroic tier) (3)
----

The extra Versatile Expertise and Improved Defenses are houseruled as standard by our DM.

The main questions I have are:
1. I kind of like the interaction between Overwhelming Strike + Staggering + Polearm Momentum, though I'm worried this might be counterproductive to my charger role. Is it worth it to maintain Polearm Momentum, or should I drop it and the Staggering mod for more straight charge damage bonuses?

2. Following off of #1, would Kulkor Arms Master be a good choice for this build, or would sticking to Ardent Champion be better when Paragon rolls around in a level?

3. How's this build going to look for damage compared to a dual blade ranger? Obviously inferior, but how inferior are we talking?

4. I'm not locked in to the Avenger, though thematically/interestwise the only other classes that really fit are Hexblade or Blackguard. Would either of them be a superior choice?

LightWarden
Mar 18, 2007


Drewjitsu posted:

What's a good theme for an eladrin Illusionist? I'm rocking Illubriyen Guardian, which is pretty cool and all, but is there anything better?

Escaped Slave isn't bad. Free Bluff, and if you've got illusion/enchantment powers that can dominate the target or otherwise force it to attack its allies then you can fire one of those off and convince your foes that one or more among them is totally out to get them all, prompting severe infighting. It does depend on how willing your DM is to roll with the idea, but you can cause some serious mayhem in the process.

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!


Drewjitsu posted:

What's a good theme for an eladrin Illusionist? I'm rocking Illubriyen Guardian, which is pretty cool and all, but is there anything better?

That's a pretty good one, for my money.

Order Adept is basically the default Wizard theme, though.

UrbanLabyrinth
Jan 27, 2009

When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence



Tiefling Blackguard (Blackguard)
Level 5,
XP: 5500
Languages: Common, Primordial

Str 10 ( +0) +10(Starting)+10(Starting)
Con 17 ( +3) +14(Starting)+2(Tiefling)+1(Level 4)
Dex 11 ( +0) +11(Starting)+11(Starting)
Int 8 ( -1) +8(Starting)+8(Starting)
Wis 10 ( +0) +10(Starting)+10(Starting)
Cha 21 ( +5) +18(Starting)+2(Tiefling)+1(Level 4)

Hit Points
Max HP: 56 +17(Con)+15(Blackguard 1)+24(Blackguard 5)
Bloodied: 28 +28(1/2 HP)
Surge: 14 +14(1/4 HP)
Surges/Day: 13 +10(Blackguard)+3(Con mod)

Defenses and Senses
AC: 23 +10(Constant)+2(1/2 Level)+1(Inherent Defense Bonus)+2(Heavy Shield Defense Bonus)+8(Plate Armor)+1(Stoneborn Armor +1)
Fort: 17 +10(Constant)+2(1/2 Level)+1(Fortitude Defense Class Bonus)+1(Inherent Defense Bonus)+1(Cloak of the Walking Wounded +1)+3(Con mod)
Ref: 16 +10(Constant)+2(1/2 Level)+1(Reflex Defense Class Bonus)+1(Inherent Defense Bonus)+2(Heavy Shield Defense Bonus)+1(Cloak of the Walking Wounded +1)+0(Dex mod)
Will: 19 +10(Constant)+2(1/2 Level)+1(Will Defense Class Bonus)+1(Inherent Defense Bonus)+1(Cloak of the Walking Wounded +1)+5(Cha mod)

Passive Perception: 12 +2(Perception)+10(Constant)
Passive Insight: 12 +2(Insight)+10(Constant)

Initiative: 2 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Initiative Misc)+0(Dex mod)
Speed: 5 +6(Tiefling)-1(Plate Armor)
Vision: Low-light

Conditional Defenses:
AC +0 Dexterity modifier

Race and Class Features
Infernal Wrath [Tiefling]
You have the infernal wrath power
Fire Resistance [Tiefling]
You have resist fire 5 + 1/2 level
Bloodhunt [Tiefling]
+1 to attacks against bloodied enemies
Bluff Bonus [Tiefling]

Stealth Bonus [Tiefling]

Mercenary Starting Feature [Blackguard]
You gain the takedown strike power.
Dark Menace [Blackguard]
Make a weapon attack vs. an enemy granting combat advantage to you: enemy takes [Cha mod] extra damage
Dread Smite [Blackguard]
Gain the Dread Smite attack power
Shroud of Shadow [Blackguard]
Gain the Shroud of Shadow utility power
Spirit of Vice [Blackguard]
Gain a benefit associated with your vice
Spirit of Vice (Domination) [Blackguard]
1/round while you have temp hp: deal [Cha mod] damage to yourself prior to your attack roll (free action), add +[Cha mod] to that attack's damage
Vengeance Strike [Blackguard]
Gain the Vengeance Strike attack power
Vice At-Will Power [Blackguard]
Gain an at-will attack power associated with your vice
Vice At-Will Power (Domination) [Blackguard]
Gain the Dominator's Strike attack power
Vice's Reward [Blackguard]
Gain the Vice's Reward utility power
Level 3 Extra Dread Smite [Blackguard]
Gain one more use of Dread Smite per encounter, but you can use it only once per turn.
Servant of Vice [Blackguard]
Gain the Servant of Vice utility power
Level 5 Blackguard Daily Power [Blackguard]
Gain a paladin daily attack power of your level or lower
Level 5 Mercenary Feature [Blackguard]
You gain a +2 power bonus to Intimidate checks and Streetwise checks.

Feats
Wrath of the Crimson Legion
Use Cha for MBAs; swap infernal wrath with paladin's wrath
Weapon Proficiency (Craghammer)
Gain proficiency with the Craghammer
Bludgeon Expertise
+1/+2/+3 (by tier) to weapon attacks with hammers and maces; +1 sq. to push and slide distance with hammer and mace weapon attacks

Powers
At-Will
Vengeance Strike [Standard Action]
Lifedrinker Craghammer +1 - Attack: 6 vs. AC, Damage: 1d10+3
Unarmed - Attack: 3 vs. AC, Damage: 1d4+3
Dominator's Strike [Standard Action]
Lifedrinker Craghammer +1 - Attack: 6 vs. AC, Damage: 1d10+3
Unarmed - Attack: 3 vs. AC, Damage: 1d4+3
Melee Basic Attack [Standard Action]
Lifedrinker Craghammer +1 - Attack: 11 vs. AC, Damage: 1d10+8
Unarmed - Attack: 8 vs. AC, Damage: 1d4+8
Opportunity Attack [Opportunity Action]
Opportunity Action [Opportunity Action]
Readied action [Immediate Reaction]
Delay [Free Action]
End a grab [Free Action]
Drop prone [Minor Action]
Aid Another [Standard Action]
Bull Rush [Standard Action]
Charge [Standard Action]
Coup de grace [Standard Action]
Grab [Standard Action]
Sustain a Grab [Minor Action]
Ready an action [Standard Action]
Total defense [Standard Action]
Walk 5 squares [Move Action]
Run 7 squares [Move Action]
Shift 1 square [Move Action]
Crawl 2 squares [Move Action]
Squeeze 2 squares [Move Action]
Stand up [Move Action]
Escape a Grab [Move Action]
Any Move Action [Standard Action]
Any Minor Action [Standard Action]
Any Minor Action [Move Action]

Encounter
Takedown Strike [No Action]
Dread Smite [Free Action]
Shroud of Shadow [Minor Action]
Paladin's Wrath [Minor Action]
Vice's Reward [Minor Action]
Second Wind [Standard Action]
Action Point [Free Action]

Daily
Servant of Vice [Minor Action]
Majestic Halo [Standard Action]
Lifedrinker Craghammer +1 - Attack: 11 vs. AC, Damage: 3d10+8 (Radiant)
Unarmed - Attack: 8 vs. AC, Damage: 3d4+8 (Radiant)

Skills
Acrobatics: -2 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Acrobatics Misc)-4(Armor Penalty)+0(Dex mod)
Arcana: 1 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Arcana Misc)-1(Int mod)
Athletics: -2 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Athletics Misc)-4(Armor Penalty)+0(Str mod)
Bluff: 14 +2(1/2 Level)+5(Trained)+2(Bluff Misc)+5(Cha mod)
Diplomacy: 7 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Diplomacy Misc)+5(Cha mod)
Dungeoneering: 2 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Dungeoneering Misc)+0(Wis mod)
Endurance: 6 +2(1/2 Level)+5(Trained)+0(Endurance Misc)-4(Armor Penalty)+3(Con mod)
Heal: 2 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Heal Misc)+0(Wis mod)
History: 1 +2(1/2 Level)+0(History Misc)-1(Int mod)
Insight: 2 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Insight Misc)+0(Wis mod)
Intimidate: 14 +2(1/2 Level)+5(Trained)+2(Intimidate Misc)+5(Cha mod)
Nature: 2 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Nature Misc)+0(Wis mod)
Perception: 2 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Perception Misc)+0(Wis mod)
Religion: 6 +2(1/2 Level)+5(Trained)+0(Religion Misc)-1(Int mod)
Stealth: 0 +2(1/2 Level)+2(Stealth Misc)-4(Armor Penalty)+0(Dex mod)
Streetwise: 9 +2(1/2 Level)+2(Streetwise Misc)+5(Cha mod)
Thievery: -2 +2(1/2 Level)+0(Thievery Misc)-4(Armor Penalty)+0(Dex mod)

Proficiencies
Weapons
Implement Proficiency [Blackguard]
Military Melee [Blackguard]
Military Ranged [Blackguard]
Simple Melee [Blackguard]
Simple Ranged [Blackguard]
Craghammer [Weapon Proficiency (Craghammer)]

Armor
Cloth [Blackguard]
Leather [Blackguard]
Hide [Blackguard]
Chainmail [Blackguard]
Scale [Blackguard]
Plate [Blackguard]
Light Shield [Blackguard]
Heavy Shield [Blackguard]

Inventory
Weapons
Craghammer, Lifedrinker Weapon +1

Armor
Plate Armor, Stoneborn Armor +1
Heavy Shield

Magic Items
Cloak of the Walking Wounded +1
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier)

If you tap all the encounter attack boosters, have temp HP to burn, and have CA, the basic attack is +11/1d10+30, brutal 2, prone, ongoing 5 cold/necro. And most of that is reusable on the next turn (all but the takedown strike). 4 ways of getting THP before anything the rest of teh party can add in.

If you need to pull out the big guns, you can use Majestic Halo (+11, 3d10+8+whatever else, B2) that does half on a miss, and lets you mark people who start next to you with your Divine Sanction (marked, 8 radiant damage if they attack anyone else, lasts until end of next turn) for the rest of the encounter.
Finally, you can use Paladin's Wrath every encounter to mark every enemy within 5 squares with divine sanction until EonT.

Have I misinterpreted anything, or am I missing anything obvious?

Drewjitsu
Sep 2, 2007

Muay Thai is great but Buttscoot-Shin-to-Balls Style is undeniably better.


UrbanLabyrinth posted:


Tiefling Blackguard (Blackguard)
Level 5,


If you're allowed to take backgrounds, I would suggest Guardian, as it allows you to get an extra MBA once per encounter.

Any reason that you're focusing on CHA, when traditionally Blackguards are Str primary, CHA secondary?

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!


Wrath of the Crimson Legion. Tiefling Domination Blackguards only need CHA.

Drewjitsu
Sep 2, 2007

Muay Thai is great but Buttscoot-Shin-to-Balls Style is undeniably better.


thespaceinvader posted:

Wrath of the Crimson Legion. Tiefling Domination Blackguards only need CHA.

Does that apply to at-wills too? Or are the blackguard at-wills terrible, so you don't care about using them?

Most Blackguards I see use the gouge instead of a Craghammer. Most craghammer users are Half-elves, as they'll take eldritch strike (along with bludgeon expertise) and be able to slide their targets around all the time.

Considering that you're a Striker in plate, a heavy shield isn't necessarily needed, and a Gouge is an amazing weapon for damage. So be fair though, you'd need to re-jig your stats a bit, as the good stuff for the gouge requires 17 dex (surprising charge), and 19 dex (spear mastery).

For your AC defense, you want to be shooting for level+16. You're at 23 with the shield, so without it, you'd still be on par for striker level AC (you have defender level AC right now).

As for your gear, I would suggest that instead of Stoneborn armor, go with the ol' reliable Dwarven armor (which is cheaper) or Meliorating Armor in the same price bracket. If you need a good source of THP for your abilities, you can consider the Eager Hero's Tattoo (level 10/20/30) or the Fey-Blessed Circlet (level 8). The Long battle tattoo (level 7) might be a good stand in for those bits of gear until you can afford them.

I hear that Icy Clutch of Stygia is a really good feat, as is Dispater's Iron Discipline at Paragon. I take it that you're going to be going with a frost weapon/wintertouched/lasting frost when you can? It combos well with your Dread Smite power.

Anyway, these are all just suggestions, Blackguards (along with most essentials classes) are pretty awesome out of the box, so I wouldn't worry too much about getting the build "perfect"

Dick Burglar
Mar 6, 2006

ROBBLE ROBBLE ROBBLE!

Blackguard At-Wills are pretty lackluster, so going full-CHA isn't a huge detriment. You do lose your At-Will source of THP generation, but there are a bunch of other ways to get THP so eh.

Edit: this thread covers how to build a CHA-based, charging- and radiant cheese-abusing Tiefling Blackguard. Even if you don't plan on going for radiant cheese it's still worth a look for all the other stuff.







vvvvv There's also the level 6 Religion Skill Power Deliverance of Faith which does the same thing, so you can actually have the effect twice per encounter if you take it at level 10+. And you're a striker with a Paladin's amount of healing surges, so you're not exactly likely to run out of them.

Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at Oct 3, 2011 around 00:05

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007


UrbanLabyrinth posted:

Blackguard build
Whatever you do, once you get access to your level 6 utility, take Virtue. It will generate enough temps to power your abilities.

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007


Dick Burglar posted:

Blackguard At-Wills are pretty lackluster, so going full-CHA isn't a huge detriment. You do lose your At-Will source of THP generation, but there are a bunch of other ways to get THP so eh.

Edit: this thread covers how to build a CHA-based, charging- and radiant cheese-abusing Tiefling Blackguard. Even if you don't plan on going for radiant cheese it's still worth a look for all the other stuff.







vvvvv There's also the level 6 Religion Skill Power Deliverance of Faith which does the same thing, so you can actually have the effect twice per encounter if you take it at level 10+. And you're a striker with Paladin healing surges, so you're not exactly likely to run out of them.

Very true, it lets you turn your striker into a very effective off-tank, in addition to everything else, I actually play one of these guys, when I get the chance I'll post my current level 11 build

J. Alfred Prufrock
Sep 9, 2008


If you want to be really off-tanky, pick human and nab Ardent Strike as your bonus at-will for some constant marking.

Benly
Aug 2, 2011

20% of the time, it works every time.


So, Revenant Executioner with half-elf heritage and melee focus. Assuming that I can only retrain my dilettante power to another from the same class as my original, is there any better dilettante candidate than the scout at-will that's dex-based pseudo-Twin Strike? (Sorry, I don't have its name handy.) I considered Piercing Strike but once Deft Blade becomes available it's kind of redundant and none of the other rogue options really grab me, unless Gloaming Cut lets me hide without superior concealment. Online consensus seems unclear on this point.

LightWarden
Mar 18, 2007


Drewjitsu posted:

Most Blackguards I see use the gouge instead of a Craghammer. Most craghammer users are Half-elves, as they'll take eldritch strike (along with bludgeon expertise) and be able to slide their targets around all the time.

With Flail expertise, Triple-Headed Flail is also a solid choice for Eldritch Strike.

Benly posted:

So, Revenant Executioner with half-elf heritage and melee focus. Assuming that I can only retrain my dilettante power to another from the same class as my original, is there any better dilettante candidate than the scout at-will that's dex-based pseudo-Twin Strike? (Sorry, I don't have its name handy.) I considered Piercing Strike but once Deft Blade becomes available it's kind of redundant and none of the other rogue options really grab me, unless Gloaming Cut lets me hide without superior concealment. Online consensus seems unclear on this point.

I don't think that one counts, since it doesn't have a level. People can grab it with Paragon Multiclassing since it does not say that the at-will attack power has to be a level 1 power, but it's a pretty dubious interpretation.

palecur
Nov 2, 2002

not too simple and not too kind

Kind of a goofy question, but I really don't know how it should go -- Dilettante and multiclass. Dilettante specifies you take a power from a class that is not a class you already are. If I take, say, a Cleric Dilettante at-will, then multiclass Cleric and retrain my Dilettante, am I allowed to take a different Cleric at-will? Because at that point, 'Cleric' is in the set of 'classes you are'. RAW that's definitely not ok, but I'm having a hard time parsing out the RAI, even.

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!


When you MC, your MC is only your class for the purposes of meeting prerequisites. Dilettante's limitations are not prerequisites.

Malachamavet
Jan 12, 2009

Above the gigantic mouth is an eye as big as a shield that stares at you with pure hate


Also you pick your race before you pick your feats, so to speak, so multiclassing hasn't 'happened' yet when you're taking the power

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!


However, if you retrain the power after MCing, which was the question, your point is moot

J. Alfred Prufrock
Sep 9, 2008


Revised Lair Assault defender for Nightmare Mode:

quote:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Mathias, level 5
Revenant, Cavalier|Ardent
Hybrid Cavalier: Hybrid Cavalier Reflex
Ardent Mantle (Hybrid): Mantle of Clarity (Hybrid)
Hybrid Ardent: Hybrid Ardent Fortitude
Psionic Augmentation (Hybrid): Hybrid Power Point Option
Hybrid Talent: Paladin Armor Proficiency
Choose your Race in Life: Drow
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 10, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 20.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 17.

AC: 24 Fort: 16 Reflex: 20 Will: 20
HP: 53 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 15

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +5, Intimidate +14, Athletics +5

FEATS
Level 1: Death's Quickening
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Superior Will

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Intent Laid Bare
Hybrid Power Point Option: Holy Smite
Hybrid daily 1: Majestic Halo
Hybrid utility 2: Bless Weapon
Hybrid daily 5: Invitation to Defeat

ITEMS
Haunted Plate Armor +1, Heavy Shield, Rhythm Blade Short sword +1, Badge of the Berserker +1, Belt of Sonnlinor Righteousness (heroic tier), Potion of Healing (heroic tier) (2)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
Compared to the strikers, the 5 damage from Rain of Steel was peanuts, so I went with something a little more defensive. Invitation to Defeat cutting monster damage by half should help keep us alive in the face of double monsters. Thoughts?

Dedekind
Sep 6, 2003

The blasphemer, uncontrite, must be punished mightily.

J. Alfred Prufrock posted:

Compared to the strikers, the 5 damage from Rain of Steel was peanuts, so I went with something a little more defensive. Invitation to Defeat cutting monster damage by half should help keep us alive in the face of double monsters. Thoughts?

Is your striker an MBA class? If so, I might think of Fate Exchange instead of Invitation to Defeat.

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Captain Walker
Apr 7, 2009

Mother knows best
Listen to your mother
It's a scary world out there


I want to give my executioner a power from his Rogue MC, starting with Low Slash once I hit 7. The combination of Shadow Master/Adept Power to get a dqily (Knockout) at Paragon is well documented (albeit broken in the modded char builder). Is there an equivalent for encounter powers?

Edit: so, Reserve Maneuver is what I want. Can I use that with a paragon path power to get an attack power that works with Novice Power?

Captain Walker fucked around with this message at Oct 5, 2011 around 18:35

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