|
Unless there is some reason for the enemy to think you can't back up an OA (like, if you're casting through the staff, maybe you are not great at hitting people with it), just brandishing your weapon should be plenty to maintain the threat. Unless you're playing open stats, or word gets around about the guy who is good at punching people but bad at punching people who are running away.
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2011 17:47
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 23:53 |
|
|
Endorph posted:I saw it brought up in the last thread, but I'm gonna re-ask it here: What's the best way to make a beastmaster decent? Ignore beast powers, take all the archer ranger powers, use your beast companion as a warm body to stand in the way of enemies while you shoot them with arrows.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2011 21:11
|
|
|
What race? Tieflings can take Hellfire Blood.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 06:39
|
|
|
With just the PHB, Tieflings don't get a bonus to con. If you don't want to be a burden on the party, you should think twice before not having a 20 in your attack stat.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 08:19
|
|
|
LogicNinja posted:Yeah, 18 +2 racial for 20 is nice for some specific characters, but it's not necessary for anyone, and you're not a burden without it. 18 can often be better, because of how many extra points you spend getting to 20. Actually, the extra stat points you get from not taking 20 in your primary is nice for some specific characters, but you should only do it if you have a really good reason. Not taking a 20 in your primary stat is like not taking an Expertise feat. Except it's worse, because you're not just giving up +1 to hit on all your attacks, you're also giving up +1 damage, and +1 to your best skills. Unless you have some absolutely overriding need for a high secondary stat, there's no sense in taking a -1 to basically every roll you ever make.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 16:53
|
|
|
adaz posted:For most non-striker classes taking a 20 would be retarded, and even taking an 18 (before racials) might be too much. Controllers need to hit to control enemies, and one important role of a controller is minion control, which you can't do well if you can't hit them. (In fact my wizard has a mere 18 Int due to what seemed like a good idea at the time, and I have been chewed out by my party members for failing to kill minions fast enough due to my low accuracy.) Leaders need to hit to trigger a lot of their buffs: see the taclord who drops strength to boost int, and then never hits with Lead the Attack. Also many leaders add their primary stat to their healing, which is very useful. Defenders are maybe the strongest case for taking an 18 instead of a 20, since they do need defenses, but they tend to rely on attacking for their mark enforcement, so if you can't hit or deal damage, it doesn't matter how invulnerable you are, your friends will die anyway. Exceptions to this are the Paladin, who adds his primary stat to his mark enforcement damage, and the Battlemind, whose best defender feature is that he gets to take a 20 in Con. tl;dr it is in fact you who is retarded
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 18:47
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:No. Adaz is right. If you never run into problems with this suicidal tactic then your DM is babying you. "Suicidal"? The difference between 20-16-10 and 18-18-12 is an extra point on each of your lower NADs (and a loss of a point on your highest!), and depending on what stats those are possibly an extra 2 hp and a surge. Those things are nice to have, but it's not "suicidal" to go without them, especially when they cost you something like 10% of your offensive combat effectiveness. Have you done any math, here? Anecdotal data, but in my game it was never the characters with 20s in their primary stats that died. I certainly wasn't babying anyone, but when the ranger without a 20 in his primary stat tried to use disrupting shot to counter the enemy's attack, he missed and died. Anecdotal evidence, but soemthing to think about.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 19:01
|
|
|
adaz posted:It's a 5% increase over 18, and you give up a huge amount of secondary riders & defenses to get it. You give up a net of one point of defenses. That's not huge.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 19:01
|
|
|
adaz posted:We're saying 20 pre-racials or post racials? because it's possible I've been mis interpreting you 20 pre-racials is impossible, so................ ............... ...............
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 19:03
|
|
|
Gomi posted:Dropping a point from the highest NAD -- which for a lot of classes is going to be higher than AC -- to boost each of the other NADs by a point is totally worth doing. Agreed! If it didn't cost you +1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 to your highest skills, +1 to healing, +1 to divine challenge damage, et cetera, I would be all over it. But that's a really high cost to pay for a mildly beneficial trade! Now that it's been demonstrated that Adaz doesn't know what the gently caress he's talking about, maybe you should just drop the subject?
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 19:09
|
|
|
Gomi posted:Of those, the only thing that's a real loss is +1 to hit, which really shouldn't matter with a DM who knows encounter design. +1 to a skill is pretty trivial -- +1 to a push (fairly common off-stat rider effect) or teleport, or +1 to a monster's to-hit penalty (also a pretty common rider effect), are all well worth it. I mean, if you're going to include everything affected by dropping the mainstat, be fair and include everything affected by raising the offstat. You're taking -1 to hit to give a monster -1 to hit, if you hit? Surely if the DM "knows encounter design" (i.e. ignores your stats and just decides whether or not you hit arbitrarily), giving the monster a -1 to hit really shouldn't matter? You piece of poo poo.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 20:13
|
|
|
If you have a particular power that you intend to spam over and over that has a strong rider (Psion and Dishearten, I am looking at you), then it can make sense to go 18-18 rather than 20-16. I've always said that there are specific circumstances that can make it the right choice. I'm just saying you should have a strong reason in mind if you are not taking a 20 in your primary stat, and it is far, far, far from a "retarded" choice.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 20:19
|
|
|
Gomi posted:I'm not going to be able to give that dodge of everything else in my post better than a C-. Maybe the extra credit for the troll/personal attack can bring it up to a C and you can graduate from Angry Internet Guy university?? I addressed more of your points than you did of mine, but that's really beside the point. I'm not interested in convincing you, I know that's not possible. I'm just trying to keep you from doing too much damage to someone who innocently, naively comes into the 4e CharOp thread looking for CharOp advice and sees you talking about how bonuses to hit are useless.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 20:21
|
|
|
Gomi posted:Yes. That is exactly what I said instead of talking about how sometimes it is worth it to drop your to-hit chance by 5% to boost some other stuff by a small amount. Bonuses to hit are useless. Elegant summation of the position. "+1 to hit, which really shouldn't matter with a DM who knows encounter design". You literally said this. This is a direct quotation of a post you made, on this same page.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 20:26
|
|
|
adaz posted:This is what I was trying to say basically, there are reasons you don't want a 20 and depending on your build it can even be the better choice to just have an 18. Well, it may have been what you were trying to say, but what you ended up saying was "For most non-striker classes taking a 20 would be retarded". You might consider remedial English classes!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 20:33
|
|
|
theironjef posted:Definitely trying to slant towards actual controller. Is there a good druid build in general for that? I figure probably the regular caster ones, whatever they're called. Well, every druid has some beast form and some regular caster powers. And some of the best controller druid powers are beast form, like Thorn Spray which is a blast 5 huge defense debuff.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 20:38
|
|
|
Gomi posted:Why do you hate the idea that a DM should be good at encounter design? Good golly that's a loaded question! Next you'll be asking me why I hate freedom, or when I stopped beating my wife.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 6, 2011 20:44
|
|
|
Gomi posted:The wording for Sneak Attack says "When you make an attack using a light blade," so if you're a Scoundrel MC'd into Sorcerer, this would work fine, if you are either flanking or have Distant Advantage and the target's being flanked. I'm pretty sure Hybrids restrict the striker feature to that class' powers only, so it wouldn't work for a Rogue|Sorcerer hybrid. The Rogue multiclass feat lets you use sneak attack. I had a monk build I was thinking about playing that exploited this, not especially powerful but I thought it was cool.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 9, 2011 19:48
|
|
|
MadScientistWorking posted:I find that hard to believe because there are a list of powers that are rendered completely and utterly useless because the buffs would be practically meaningless. Name three.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 13, 2011 21:56
|
|
|
It's not a "catfight", it's people giving bad charop advice in the charop thread and bitching when they get called out for it. If you're going to say things like "taking a 20 in your primary is usually a bad idea" in the charop thread, IDK why we even have a charop thread.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2011 02:09
|
|
|
J. Alfred Prufrock posted:stupid strawmen like "If you're going to say things like 'taking a 20 in your primary is usually a bad idea'" Allow me to quote from earlier in the thread! adaz posted:For most non-striker classes taking a 20 would be retarded, and even taking an 18 (before racials) might be too much. That's no strawman, that's forums poster adaz. I know it seems implausible, but he actually said that! If anything, I toned down his strident language in the interests of believability.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 17, 2011 03:38
|
|
|
There are no int-based strikers. With a high int, you're smart enough not to have to rely on brute force.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2011 03:15
|
|
|
But yeah, a Genasi Stormsoul Evoker with the Genasi Wizard feats can do striker-level damage for a couple turns every encounter before he has to go back to being a controller.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 27, 2011 03:20
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 23:53 |
|
|
Brash Assault is awful, it's a basic attack with bonus whining to your DM about how he never lets you do anything cool.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2011 03:38
|
|