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Psion posted:
Also, I would rather have to deal with lots of friendlies and lots of enemies than try and convince myself that a carrier/battleship hybrid which carries 30 squadrons launches six fighters to defend itself. edit: yes, there should be an update by now. Delayed due to a mixture of my wingmen having deathwishes, it being way too loving hot here today to do anything that seems like effort, and there being storyline video to sort out. Also since I have like 6 readers it's not like my slightly flaky update schedule is a major inconvenience for anyone. Ilanin fucked around with this message at Jun 27, 2011 around 22:02 |
| # ? Jun 26, 2011 21:27 |
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| # ? May 24, 2013 17:33 |
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Guess who just "recorded" his commentary with his microphone turned off?  I swear this update is going to happen. Though I think I'm going to switch to updates every three days instead of every two; it means I get to do things in my free time other than make Standoff updates. And given the size of my audience, that does seem sensible right now. (Having way too much fun to actually stop, though.) Coming up once I switch my microphone on: The INCREDIBLE vanishing Sabre! edit: OK, what the gently caress is wrong with my voice today. I sound like a particularly bad synth, and it's not really the microphone doing it, I just sound like that. Update when my voice sounds listenable-to. Ilanin fucked around with this message at Jun 28, 2011 around 17:10 |
| # ? Jun 28, 2011 14:25 |
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! Stealth Fighters
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| # ? Jun 28, 2011 21:56 |
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Ilanin posted:Also, I would rather have to deal with lots of friendlies and lots of enemies than try and convince myself that a carrier/battleship hybrid which carries 30 squadrons launches six fighters to defend itself. The problem here is one of game design. The more friends/foes you add, the less impact the player themselves have. Now I haven't played Standoff, but the "more is better" conceit left unchecked is an amateur move. In the FS2 mod community it's called BOE syndrome, for Battle of Endor. Sure, it looks great to have eighty capital ships and four hundred fighters blasting each other, but insofar as the player is concerned they lose any influence over the fight and with that much fire being slung around, death comes fast and unavoidable -- i.e. cheap. Both are, in a broad sense, poor things to do. They demotivate the player and that's never good design. So while from a universe immersion standpoint it makes no sense for a capital ship with a hundred fighters to deploy five, from a game design standpoint it's a compromise that has to be made. Scripting missions with lots of friendlies and lots more enemies and retaining player influence over events is drat hard. The minute random chance of the AI doing something right/wrong becomes more of a factor than player skill, the designer has failed. And let me tell you, it's like 99:1 odds on getting that right in my experience. see also every official WC game ever where two fighters is basically the maximum effort Confed can ever produce, with rare exception, and I can name several FS missions where you deploy out with eight to twelve friendlies. Just sayin~ Still, if Standoff pulls it off, cool. I guess we'll find out when you turn your mic back on 
Psion fucked around with this message at Jun 28, 2011 around 23:01 |
| # ? Jun 28, 2011 22:59 |
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Just think how many times the Concordia's flight deck was down. One mission I'm thinking of in FS2 did it well - the first Nebula mission. While the Aquataine was launching multiple wings, they all had their own missions. so there was only Alpha wing to steal your kills and shoot you in the back. Some of the Prophecy missions with large numbers of fighters on Carrier defense were not fun - I'm looking at you, mission with The Redeemer!
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 00:44 |
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Yeah, it's something every genre faces. If you have AI buddies, making them competent without making them win the mission for you is drat hard, because they can't be too helpful and they can't be too useless and then you have to scale that based on how many AI buddies you have, and how many enemies you have, and how good the enemies are, and their specific bad-guy objectives (is it "kill you" or "kill your carrier" or whatever) The fewer variables you have to work with, the easier it is to balance out a game so that the player's experience is both fun and rewarding in "having an effect on events" without "cheap, unavoidable deaths out of nowhere" Otherwise we might as well all go watch a movie. Tricky stuff, game balance.
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 20:08 |
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The real answer is to make missions with dozens of friendlies and hundreds of enemies but make every single one absolutely useless so it's literally a shooting gallery (see: Ace Combat). 
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 20:31 |
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It's certainly difficult to match attaining some degree of verisimilitude with still allowing the player to affect events. Most commercial games tend to have fighter counts with an upper end around what we're seeing in these missions (~10 friendlies, ~15-20 enemies), which is around the mid-point of Standoff's engagement size. X-Wing Alliance is something of an exception; the way it mostly managed large engagements was by just how much better you could be than the AI pilots - given the lack of shielding on many Imperial fighters, it was possible to rack up kills very quickly. The fact that Standoff's average fighter engagement contains more ships than those in FS2 and similar games does make Standoff rather harder, it's true - you both have to evade more enemy firepower and make a difference to a larger furball. But then I doubt Standoff was ever intended to be a mass-market game; the assumption made in design was probably that anybody who was likely to find out about and download the game would probably have been playing starfighter games for many years and would probably therefore be pretty good at them. Standoff does on one notable occasion (it's in Episode 5, it'll be a while yet) I think go too far on its engagement scale - it gives the game a wonderful sense of scale but it's really hard to actually complete the mission. But I think I am proving that the player can reasonably expect to both survive and affect the course of events. And to me, the greater difficulty in tipping 10-on-15 compared to 4-on-6 is a good thing. I'm disappointed in a mission if I beat it first time. Secret Ops isn't that much of a challenge on Nightmare. Starlancer's only difficulty came from...you know what, I'm doing that "expert player whines that games aren't challenging enough" thing, aren't I? I hate that. Time to stop and get this update posted - video is uploading right now. Ilanin fucked around with this message at Jun 29, 2011 around 20:35 |
| # ? Jun 29, 2011 20:31 |
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7th August 2668, Capella System, Gemini Sector Episode 1, Mission 4 - Striking Distance The Lionheart approaches the pirate base, using the asteroid field to hide its presence. Pre-mission cutscenes: There are no cutscenes before this mission either. Which is not to say that this mission contains no plot. Mission Briefing:  Briefing Video (Youtube) According to the briefing, the mission is to escort the Lionheart to NAV 2, though practically what you're really trying to protect most of the time are your wingmen. The destroyer can mostly take care of itself.  Mission Video (Youtube) (I'm guessing piloting skills like that are why they won't let him fly anything more useful than a Tarsus) Kills this mission: 12 Well, that was surprising. Now we know how those pirates were able to pull off the raid on the Guadacanal so easily - it was an inside job. Also, there's a surprisingly large number of them. This doesn't sound like a particularly well thought-through plan on Squealer's part, but that would be entirely consistent with his character. I guess most of the veteran troops who are being discharged right now are pretty bitter in general. I have no idea if this sort of thing actually happened during the historical age of piracy in the 17th century; it's not quite how either Henry Morgan or William Kidd operated, though it seems vaguely plausible. There's a variety of ways to fail this mission to different degrees. If you've got fewer than five but more than some number I'm not quite sure about of fighters left, then Lieutenant Freyers says this when you request clearance to land:  Great, we're in position for the attack. It's too bad we have almost no fighters left! You're cleared, we need to prepare for the strike. With that pre-landing sequence you're shunted over to the mission "Final Strike", which is essentially similar to the one we're going to play but with fewer ships all around (and the outcome isn't quite so favourable even if you succeed). It's sort of officially a "losing path" mission so I'm not intending to play it. If you lose more fighters (when I triggered this I was the only one left) then Freyers says this: Oh that's just great work... sir. We've lost too many fighters. Get your rear end back on deck, we're aborting the whole operation.Ah poo poo, another day, another screwed up mission, eh? You got clearance to land, BradshawAnd that's a straight Game Over, not even a replay mission option like you get from regularly being killed - the game even rolls credits rather than sending you back to the Lionheart's ready room. The TCS Lionheart is mothballed and you're out of a job. Finally, you can accept Squealer's offer by going into your nav system and resetting your nav to the pirate base. That's also a Game Over, and a bit longer, so here's the video, including one inexplicably not voiced line (Standoff has a bug sometimes wherein Bradshaw stops talking in cutscenes, but I've never before seen just one line missed out):  Video (Youtube) And in transcript-o-vision:  : Enough talk. Look, you know you wanna come with me. Just set your course for the base! : *Resets his autonav to the pirate base*: Bradshaw, please order your wing to stand down. : I'm afraid we will have to eliminate them if they don't land with you.: You heard the man. Follow me, and I'll make sure you're treated OK. : You made the right choice, Bradshaw. Go ahead and land now, I'll see you on the inside. Bradshaw's Gladius lands. Cut to the Pirate base blowing up as the TCS Lionheart closes in, looking ominous. Remaining scenes are voiceover of the Lionheart making its way back out of the asteroid field. : Spoons. Here for the obligatory "why'd you do it?" scene, I assume? : Yeah, I guess so. Care to enlighten me?: Don't have much of an explanation for you, I'm afraid. Just seemed like a good idea.: To run off and join the pirates? What could possibly make that seem like a good idea?: I figured I'd get to keep flying. Refuel at the base...make a run for the jump point. It seemed like it could work.: Then they locked me up with the rest of the hostages, and I realised I was screwed.: You did that to keep flying? That's...: Yes, Spoons, I am well aware of that.: They're going to ask for the death penalty, you know. : So I've heard. I wish I hadn't done it, but I guess that doesn't matter now.: The Captain is going to try and get Terrell to intervene, but it's not looking good.: Yup, heard that, too. : Look, I've gotta go, I've got a patrol. : I'm sorry it had to end like this. : We all are.Cut to the "traitors never win" screenshot above. Well, there's our first ending. And as it turns out, it's not actually the most downbeat one, either. However, fortunately Bradshaw is not colossaly stupid, so that didn't happen. Tactics Corner As you arrive at Nav 1 this looks like it's going to be pretty easy (and Spoons even says as much). Friendly Forces: 1x Gilgamesh-class destroyer TCS Lionheart 6x Gladius fighter/bomber 4x Stiletto light fighter Enemy forces: NAV 1 2x Talon medium fighter 1x Sabre heavy fighter 4x Tarsus light freighter (reinforcements at 15 seconds) 6x Talon medium fighter (reinforcements at 17-18 seconds) 2x Talon medium fighter (reinforcements at 34-35 seconds) 1x Sabre heavy fighter (reinforcements at 34-35 seconds)  The starting three fighters are mostly here to pull you out of position. They approach at a different angle to the other pirate forces, so that when they arrive the situation looks something like this:  However, note the lack of Sabres in this wave; these ships are here to kill fighters, not the Lionheart. One does arrive slightly later, and immeadiately sets up for a torpedo run, so it's important to kill it. Once these final set of three enemies arrive the battle looks something like this:  This looks simple enough, doesn't it? Kill the two Sabres, even the odds with missiles on nearby Talons, then finish up the stragglers with your guns. Yeah, that's what I thought, too. The problem with it is this:  Unfortunately, this tactic results in losing an awful lot of wingmen; certainly enough to push you over onto the losing branch and sometimes enough to result in a straight game over. Without your help in the thick of things your wingmen will usually lose the 10-on-16 scrap, or at least take a large number of casualties. Secondarily, protecting the Lionheart is not a mission objective. So Sabres doing torpedo runs on your command ship doesn't seem to be an issue unless it actually goes down (which I've never had happen) or you lose the Hangar (and they seem to go for the engines). So you have to ignore normal prioritisation and kill everything near you instead, to get the enemy numbers down and keep as many enemy ships focusing on you as possible. Liberal taunting at the start is also useful. The Gladius is a relatively heavy fighter, so it's also worth flying to maximise damage dealt rather than to minimise damage taken as I usually would - this is why I come back with a mostly wrecked ship. NAV 2 3x Talon medium fighter These fighters exist purely so Bradshaw and Spoons can do their "three is fine" double act, and also so that if you're half-dead after fighting off the large battle they can finish you off and make you do the entire mission again. It's kind of a dick move from the designers, though certainly one in-character for the genre. I try to hide behind my wingmen and the Lionheart here if at all possible; also unload any missiles I have remaining (usually my FFs which I tend to forget about since you don't get a target lock with them). There's no Sabres, so the capship is in no danger. New characters: Lieutenant Jason Beverly "Squealer" A graduate of the same academy class as Spoons and Bradshaw, with whom he became fast friends, Squealer would have likely spent his career on fleet carriers and risen through the ranks rapidly were he not chronically insubordinate and prone to acting before he thinks. Flying off the TCS Defiance before its destruction, and then the TCS Guadacanal, his rash behaviour has caused him to rack up commendations and medals, but no promotions (well, he did finally make 1st Lieutenant a few weeks before being discharged in the first big reduction-in-force after the armistice). Squealer can be likened to Maniac, though unlike Major Marshall he's not particularly regarded as a liability to fly with (I rarely pay attention to who is actually on my wing, so I have no idea how well he follows orders). He's also much cockier; Maniac's displays of ego seem to me to be mostly driven by insecurity whereas Squealer is basically arrogant, consequently, Squealer has much more of an attitude around superior officers than Maniac does. Ship of the day: Gladius  Class: Fighter-Bomber Length: 18.36 Meters Mass: 25 tonnes Max Velocity: 400 kps Afterburner Velocity: 1000 kps Maximum Yaw: 80 dps Maximum Pitch: 70 dps Maximum Roll: 80 dps Weapons (fighter loadout): Particle Cannon (2x), Laser Cannon (2x), Heat-Seeking Missile (4x), Friend-or-Foe Missile (4x) Shields: Fore: 95; Aft: 95 Armour: Front: 140; Right: 80; Left: 80; Rear: 100. Game says: The Gladius is the Confederation's most versatile fighter. It carries enough torpedoes to down a small capital ship, while still retaining a decent dogfighting ability. I say: Inferior in all ways to the Sabre, the Gladius is very probably the worst - at the absolute best the second-worst - fighter you actually have to fly in the game. Allow me to enumerate the ways in which it is terrible. The biggest is low afterburner speed. 1000 kps is just not enough to get you out of the way of enemy shots or to allow you to close in on enemies just outside cannon range. It's the same speed as a Talon at afterburner and I've been demonstrating for three missions just how useless the Talon's AB is. The next is its gun zero; the laser cannon are a long way out on the wingtips giving it the same problem as the WC2 Sabre in terms of actually hitting enemies which present a small target - you can do it with some of the guns but not all of them. Compounding this is its lack of an ITTS, just as a little extra gently caress you to the pilot. Throw in shields which are weaker than the Sabre's already unsatisfactory shielding and armour that doesn't nothing to make up for the deficit, and no rear turret, and you have a Grade A deathtrap. Total kills (Standoff): 4 missions / 36 kills Total kills (including previous thread): 117 missions / 958 kills Next time on Standoff: We finally attack the pirate base!
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 22:16 |
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I always forget to post the mail update. EVEN IF YOU DON'T NORMALLY READ MAIL UPDATES, READ THE FIRST MAIL AND THE COMMENTARY because it's introducing a gameplay feature that you'll otherwise be rather confused by, or at least you would if you also skimmed over it briefly coming up in conversation earlier.  Three mails between missions 3 and 4; again, if you're on the losing track missions the first is slightly different. IES Message - Received at 1310 hours GST on 2668.120 posted:From: Chief Petty Officer Jean Henderson (TCN, TCS Lionheart) Here's a feature of Standoff that's pretty unique - those numbers aren't fixed. You start with 6 Stilettos and 6 Gladii and when your pilots have to eject you lose one. The Lionheart only launched four Stilettos in the last mission because that's all I had. This is a little unfair in that it means that if you start losing fighters you generally carry on losing fighters, and it's why I say that Hero (definitely) and Nightmare (sometimes) can actually be easier than Ace for this episode; if you don't have as many fighters as I have for these last two missions it makes it much harder. It really ought to be signposted a bit more than it is, I think. On the other hand, it adds another strategic direction to the game, really gives you a reason to try and keep your wingmen alive, and does substantially add to the game's versimilitude given that small capital ships like the Lionheart are necessarily going to have highly limited capacity for fighters. On balance I think it's something that really ought to be in more games (especially when, like here, you're nominally in charge of the fighters), but could do with being signposted a bit more. To be fair, we'll be getting e-mails like this throughout the game now, so once you learn about it it stays in your mind. It's just something that they could do with being more upfront about. I guess it would help if Standoff actually had a manual. If you didn't find the pirate base last mission (if you take heavy damage the Lionheart advises you to abort the mission), then the last two sentences change to: quote:I really hope things pick up for you from now on. The way the last mission went, I must admit I'm more worried than ever about my brother. Here's what the marines have to say about our pirate-finding skills: IES Message - Received at 1320 hours GST on 2668.120 posted:From: Major Frank Kepler (TCMC, TCS Lionheart) Finally, Captain Graham is making plans for the assault, and intends to blow up everything he can see. IES Message - Received at 1350 hours GST on 2668.120 posted:From: Captain Charles Graham (TCN, TCS Lionheart) Yeah, I'm not sure how well "can't get the troops in, oh well, never mind the hostages, just level the place" would play in the media, but I guess out at the arse end of nowhere like Capella they can probably get away with this sort of stuff. And I suppose all of the hostages are military, but still, seems a bit callous to me.
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| # ? Jun 29, 2011 22:40 |
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Hahaha the Gladius is a piece of poo poo Makes me glad someone else is having to suffer flying it
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| # ? Jun 30, 2011 04:47 |
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Psion posted:Hahaha the Gladius is a piece of poo poo What are you flying it in? Saga? Haven't looked at that yet. Didn't think it was flyable in Privateer. I have to fly it AGAIN next mission, too. On the upside, I've located my copies of Fleet Action and End Run, so I can get my revenge on the thread if you make me fly it when there's a choice (the first one of which is coming up quite soon now).
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| # ? Jun 30, 2011 11:30 |
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Ilanin posted:What are you flying it in? Saga? Haven't looked at that yet. Didn't think it was flyable in Privateer. It was flyable in Armada, but that horrible mess of a game was hardly the right environment for judging a fighter's qualities. Edit: Ilanin posted:On the upside, I've located my copies of Fleet Action and End Run, so I can get my revenge on the thread if you make me fly it when there's a choice (the first one of which is coming up quite soon now). You know, I'm actually looking forward to seeing just how deep that hole goes - i only read those in german and 15 year old me keeps telling me they weren't that bad really. fezball fucked around with this message at Jun 30, 2011 around 12:17 |
| # ? Jun 30, 2011 11:58 |
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Both of those novels for me qualify as fun-but-trashy light reads. I enjoy them.
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| # ? Jun 30, 2011 13:27 |
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Ilanin posted:I say: Inferior in all ways to the Sabre, the Gladius is very probably the worst - at the absolute best the second-worst - fighter you actually have to fly in the game. Allow me to enumerate the ways in which it is terrible. The biggest is low afterburner speed. 1000 kps is just not enough to get you out of the way of enemy shots or to allow you to close in on enemies just outside cannon range. It's the same speed as a Talon at afterburner and I've been demonstrating for three missions just how useless the Talon's AB is. The next is its gun zero; the laser cannon are a long way out on the wingtips giving it the same problem as the WC2 Sabre in terms of actually hitting enemies which present a small target - you can do it with some of the guns but not all of them. Compounding this is its lack of an ITTS, just as a little extra gently caress you to the pilot. Throw in shields which are weaker than the Sabre's already unsatisfactory shielding and armour that doesn't nothing to make up for the deficit, and no rear turret, and you have a Grade A deathtrap. Well, thanks to this thread I've downloaded Standoff, played it all the way to end of the Prologue and I have this to say: your in-depth analysis of the whys the Gladius sucks is still not enough to help someone visualise how bad that thing is. Even reading your description and seeing it in action in the video, I was still thinking that it couldn't have been worse than the starting Tarsus in Privateer. I was wrong. The Lasers are hard to use effectively and drain a surprisingly large amount of power when used together with the Particle cannons, the shileds and armor are incapable of allowing one to not take damage even when taking light laser fire, the afterburner is so slow that enemies still have a good chance of hitting you regardless of any evasive maneuvers, it's slow as hell and what were they thinking making it a flyable craft in the first place? I'd recommend everyone to download Standoff if only to see how bad that ship is. You, sir, are a braver and more patient man than I could ever be, playing this game on Nightmare and flying that Deathtrap.
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| # ? Jul 1, 2011 13:58 |
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fezball posted:You know, I'm actually looking forward to seeing just how deep that hole goes - i only read those in german and 15 year old me keeps telling me they weren't that bad really. Mukaikubo posted:Both of those novels for me qualify as fun-but-trashy light reads. I enjoy them. It's perfectly possible to enjoy both End Run and Fleet Action. They have excellently-described combat sequences, fairly coherent (if not terribly imaginative) overall plots and add a bit more depth to the Kilrathi. The thing is, the way you do this is by skipping over the bad bits. Forstchen's not terrible provided he sticks to what he knows, but unfortunately he doesn't. I'll likely post some of the better bits of Fleet Action to help explain what's going on in Standoff, once that starts. Should I decide I need to take revenge on the thread I was more thinking of the very worst sections of End Run, which is to say, the romantic subplot. radintorov posted:thanks to this thread I've downloaded Standoff Awesome. I'm hoping that this LP will persuade people to give Standoff a go. radintorov posted:I was still thinking that it couldn't have been worse than the starting Tarsus in Privateer. I was wrong....what were they thinking making it a flyable craft in the first place? Well, in an absolute sense the Gladius is better than the Tarsus (which I'm going to feature in the next update as ship of the day), it's just that in Privateer you don't have Sabres to worry about, nor are you necessarily expected to be fighting in and winning fairly large fighter engagements. And I'm pretty certain that the designers were thinking partly "if we put the Stiletto in we'd look a bit stupid not using the Gladius" and also "hey, we need to make this a bit harder". Update tomorrow.
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| # ? Jul 1, 2011 15:29 |
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Ilanin posted:I was more thinking of the very worst sections of End Run, which is to say, the romantic subplot. OH NO YOU DON'T 
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| # ? Jul 1, 2011 15:31 |
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7th August 2668, Capella System, Gemini Sector Episode 1, Mission 5 - Storming the Rock I've decided to try a change of format in my updates. Instead of mail and mission, I'm going to switch to "story" and "gameplay" updates. This is partially motivated by the fact that there's no sensible order to put the updates around that gets the story in the right order this time. Let me know if this is a terrible idea. Aanyway. This is the story update. Gameplay will happen once the mission video is done uploading/transcoding. Between mission cutscenes: Confed flight recorders remain are clearly made by the same contractor who does armour plating for Epees. You'd think they'd want it to be the most reliable part of the fighter really. Apparently not. Cutscene video (Youtube)  : Err, this is odd, captain. I'm not getting any data from your flight recorder. : Um, er....yeah, it shorted out during the flight.: Hmm. That's strange. Flight recorders don't usually...: Exactly what I thought! Well, let me know if you figure out what happened. : OK, will do sir. I'm sure you were all enthusiastically awaiting another Bradshaw monologue, after the game's intro, well, wait no longer! Cutscene video (Youtube) And for those of you who prefer your Bradshaw in text form, here's the transcript of what he said. I'm sure you can guess which former Defiance pilot features most prominently: That encounter with Squealer...I still don't know what to think about all this. I... can't believe he would join the pirates of his own free will. No, no, I do believe it. Hell, I was pretty tempted too. I shorted out my blackbox afterwards. I don't want anyone to know about this. What really scares me is Sparrow, but I know she's a hostage. She didn't join them, I just know it. Or at least, I'm going to keep telling myself that. I guess after everything we've gone through, she's still a mystery to me. And I just don't know what I'll do. If she's turned, I don't know if I could bring myself to kill her, I really don't. Computer, save journal entry. Double encryption, protect with retina and voiceprint scan. Shut down. I'm pretty sure that Confed really ought to have blackboxes that can't be shorted out from the cockpit when the pilot feels like it. Though given their performance in Wing Commander II, I can't really say it's a plothole that it's possible. Four messages before we head out to Storm the Rock. Chief Henderson apparently doesn't know about the trick we used to short the flight recorder out. Or maybe she does but officially is pretending not to because she likes us. Which is probably just as well under the circumstances. IES Message - Received at 1735 hours GST on 2668.120 posted:From: Chief Petty Officer Jean Henderson (TCN, TCS Lionheart) Spoons, on the other hand, isn't buying our bullshit. IES Message - Received at 1738 hours GST on 2668.120 posted:From: 1st Lt. Fabian Schroeder (TCSF, TCS Lionheart) He's really not buying it. Probably because he was the one who taught Bradshaw how to short a black box (I bet they're STILL orange) out in the first place. Kind of odd that a pilot would know this and a mechanic wouldn't, though I guess aforementioned mechanic is pretty inexperienced as these people go (that being why she's on a destroyer and not a carrier). IES Message - Received at 1812 hours GST on 2668.120 posted:From: 1st Lt. Fabian Schroeder (TCSF, TCS Lionheart) A friend who we used to serve on the TCS Valiant with drops us a line. Commodore Hans Reismann is an Origin character; he was originally introduced in Privateer. The TCS Firekka is an escort carrier - much smaller than the Concordia but bigger than the Lionheart. SWES Message - Received at 1815 hours GST on 2668.120 posted:From: 1st Lt. Robert Collins (TCSF, TCS Firekka) Ilanin fucked around with this message at Jul 2, 2011 around 23:55 |
| # ? Jul 2, 2011 23:44 |
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That last e-mail sure isn't FORESHADOWING or anything HMMMMMMMM NO OF COURSE NOT geez Standoff, that's blatant
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| # ? Jul 2, 2011 23:49 |
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7th August 2668, Capella System, Gemini Sector Episode 1, Mission 5 - Storming the Rock The Lionheart launches all her remaining fighters to knock out the pirate base's defensive fighters and turrets, before sending Marine landing craft over to rescue the hostages and demolish the facility itself. Mission Briefing:  Briefing Video (Youtube)  Mission Video (Youtube) Kills this mission: 13 Tactics Corner Pirate Base Friendly forces: 1x Gilgamesh-class destroyer TCS Lionheart 2-6x Gladius heavy fighter (as many as you have left) 2-6x Stiletto heavy fighter (also as many as you have left) 3x Talon medium fighter (reinforcements, once one base turret has been destroyed) 2x Hermes-class marine assault shuttle (launch once all base turrets have been destroyed) Enemy forces: 1x Pirate base 3x Talon medium fighter 3x Sabre heavy fighter 1x Talon medium fighter (reinforcements, 1 minute) 1x Tarsus light frieghter (reinforcements, 1 minute) 3x Talon medium fighter (reinforcements, once one base turret has been destroyed) 2x Talon medium fighter, (reinforcements, once assault shuttles launch) 2 Waves of 2x Talon medium fighter, 1x Tarsus light frieghter (reinforcements, arrive when all enemies are destroyed) Initial Situation:  This seems like an even fight - roughly equal numbers and the Lionheart has about as much firepower as the installation, but it isn't. Firstly, neither the Stiletto nor the Gladius is a good match against the Sabre, and if you try to gang up on them the Talons will pick you off. The opening position is also space such that the Sabres (which are too strongly shielded and armoured to take down in a single pass, and too fast at afterburner to tail) will have you engaged by the time the Talons arrive:  This gives them a free shot on anyone trying to track the Sabres, which has the potential to do a lot of damage if you don't react to it. On the other hand, if you go straight after the Talons they start sufficiently far away that the faster Sabres will be able to close in on you from behind and hit you that way. The approach I do in the video is to order my wingmen to go after the Sabres, join them for a single pass, then switch focus to the Talons as soon as they come in range. Talons are much easier to kill but have only slightly less firepower and are therefore priority targets. That's my favourite approach, but it's difficult to pull off because you've got to time your switch from Sabres to Talons correctly, and also avoid taking too much damage in the 3-on-1 phase at the start since you've got a long battle ahead. I've not tried the obvious alternative of ordering your wingmen after the Talons, though I would expect them to get shot up by the Sabres. Ideally you want to tell the Stiletto wing to go after the Talons but you can't and they never do, seeming to prefer to chase after Squealer or go for the pirate base both of which are bad ideas. Secondly, the battle tends to be fought in more in the range of the installation than of the Lionheart, and in addition to that your AI wingmen are absolutely terrible at turret-whacking and the pirates' base will likely force many of them to eject (conversely, the enemy AI has no reason to engage the Lionheart and doesn't). Finally, the pirates get more replacement waves than you do, they arrive much closer than your reinforcements do, and the arriving militia are in Talons rather than Stilettos which would actually be useful:  So attrition will get to you, especially since the pirates like to launch missiles here and you only have two decoys. And, of course, you have to fly the Gladius. One of the things you can try, and which I do to some extent in the video, is use the pirate base as a shield and try and pop out from behind it to ambush them; another thing you can do is use FF missiles to break up the initial pirate attacks. But overall there's only so much you can do with tactics here. In the end it's a test of defensive flying in a bad ship and a long battle. Conserve your burner usage, ration your missiles, pick on the weaker targets first. Try not to take damage and don't fly in a straight line for longer than a couple of seconds unless you're sure all the enemy fighters are engaged. And be prepared to have to retry it a few times. All in all Storming the Rock is a significant difficulty spike - it would be an easy enough mission if you had a Sabre, but you don't. As it is, certainly the hardest mission in all of Episodes 1 and 2. New characters: No new characters this time. Well, I guess kind of Trigger, but I was planning to wait until we actually meet him. Ship of the day: Tarsus  Class: Merchant Scout (seriously, game? It's a light freighter and it will like it). Length: 25.32 Meters Mass: 40 tonnes Max Velocity: 300 kps Afterburner Velocity: 900 kps Maximum Yaw: 40 dps Maximum Pitch: 40 dps Maximum Roll: 50 dps Weapons (standard loadout): Mass Drivers (2) Shields: Fore: 100; Aft: 100 Armour: Front: 100; Right: 80; Left: 80; Rear: 100. Game says: At the turn of the century the Tarsus was a revolutionary light reconnaissance ship designed specifically for the Exploratory Corps. Long since retired from service, many ships of this class have found their way into the hands of private owners. I say: It's a pre-war relic, it's not supposed to be a combat vessel, it flies like both of these things. The biggest problem you're likely to have with the Tarsus is that it takes enough shots to kill in a Stiletto that you'll likely get shot by your wingmen if you tail it the entire time. Or you'll never quite get used to how bad it is and end up leading your shots by too much, I do that all the time. Fortunately, we never have to fly it. The only real purpose of sending a Tarsus into combat is to distract enemies from shooting at ships that might accomplish something. Total kills (Standoff): 5 missions / 49 kills Total kills (including previous thread): 118 missions / 971 kills Next time on Standoff: It's time for the first piece of reader interaction! As you already know, Bradshaw's been ordered to report to the flight deck to chase down that escaping Sabre (one guess as to who's in it). There are three servicable fighters on the Lionheart at the moment - a Gladius and the two Sabres that just landed. Which should Bradshaw jump into to chase down the escapee? I talked about the Sabre in the Mission 3 update and the Gladius in Mission 4, if you need more information.
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| # ? Jul 3, 2011 00:44 |
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I'm gonna suggest a Sabre so you get to fly something that isn't a piece of crap.
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| # ? Jul 3, 2011 00:46 |
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Are all the privateer ships included in this game? (Besides the unique ones I mean)
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| # ? Jul 3, 2011 01:24 |
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Hey guys Guys guys guys This crate is about to explo- Ahem. The Sabre, of course. No other way to have these duel things.
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| # ? Jul 3, 2011 01:56 |
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Let's see the new ship. Sabre time.
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| # ? Jul 3, 2011 03:15 |
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Sabre. When I played this mission and the game gave me the choice, I thought "This is my one chance to fly a ship that isn't a glorified target wasting hangar space, and I can choose either? Hah! Of course I'll use the Sabre!"
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| # ? Jul 3, 2011 08:15 |
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But if you're trying to catch a Sabre, you need something faster than a Sabre! 
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| # ? Jul 3, 2011 21:03 |
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sfwarlock posted:But if you're trying to catch a Sabre, you need something faster than a Sabre! Protagonist Plot Power adds 50% to his max speed, he'll be fine.
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| # ? Jul 3, 2011 21:34 |
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Psion posted:Protagonist Plot Power adds 50% to his max speed, he'll be fine. Which is even more hilarious if you try it with a Gladius. Then again, if someone would try to chase me in a Gladius while I'm in a Sabre, I would certainly wait for my pursuer, confident that I could easily dispatch such a crappy vessel. Although, now that I think about it, wouldn't it be funny if choosing a Gladius over a Sabre would actually give you a Game Over, due to how it would be impossible to catch up in that deathtrap?
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| # ? Jul 3, 2011 21:52 |
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radintorov posted:Which is even more hilarious if you try it with a Gladius. Double dick move: throw a couple Epees into the mix in the previous mission. If the player doesn't save them, you're screwed, you have nothing on deck that can catch a Sabre. If they are saved... you get to take an Epee against a Sabre. (Where's a little graphic of the Duck Hunt dog when I need it?) (And yes, Rapiers are fast enough too, but that's not as funny.)
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| # ? Jul 4, 2011 02:59 |
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Also it's well established WC protagonists can catch villains in the same ship. For example, Jazz. Twice.
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| # ? Jul 4, 2011 17:59 |
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Psion posted:Also it's well established WC protagonists can catch villains in the same ship. For example, Jazz. Twice. Well, to be completely honest, I think the second time you fight him it's kind of implied that he wants to deal with Blair first before escaping for good (at least the conversation between Blair and Paladin in last SO2 mission seems to say something along these lines anyway).
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| # ? Jul 4, 2011 18:42 |
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Gamerofthegame posted:This crate is about to explo- Standoff has some great death messages. This is not one of them. With the comms, substantially more effort went into Episode 2-5 comms than Episode 1 comms. Though that said there's still quite a lot of stuff that's been ripped from other games, Standoff is a bit of a greatest hits compilation at times. I'm kind of itching to talk about something that happens in a couple of missions time but BAD ILANIN no breaking your spoiler policy. sfwarlock posted:Double dick move: throw a couple Epees into the mix in the previous mission. If the player doesn't save them, you're screwed, you have nothing on deck that can catch a Sabre. If they are saved... you get to take an Epee against a Sabre. (Where's a little graphic of the Duck Hunt dog when I need it?) I do wonder if the game designers might have tried something like this and then rejected it due to it being practically impossible to keep your wingmen alive through Storming the Rock due to the way they insist in suiciding against pirate base turrets. After all, the Lionheart has Stilettos, which are faster than Sabres, and if I'd kept any of them alive in the last mission...but they're not an option even if you do, supposedly because it'd take too long to land them and refuel. Now you could make an argument to the extent that the runaway Sabre is going to have to slow down in order to make a jump (let's wildly assume it is heading for a jump point, I think that's a pretty safe bet), or that it needs to conserve fuel to jump with Bradshaw, with the Lionheart behind him, doesn't. Or you might make some guesses as to who's in this Sabre and wonder if they might have had their own reasons for waiting, along the lines ivantod notes for  JazzBut I think I'm with Psion, pretty much. This is a Sabre which has been repaired using parts out of a Starfury. Therefore, it flies at the speed of plot. And yes, it'll be a Sabre, I'm calling this vote since nobody has said Gladius. Update tomorrow. Ilanin fucked around with this message at Jul 4, 2011 around 22:58 |
| # ? Jul 4, 2011 19:51 |
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Ilanin posted:I'm kind of itching to talk about something that happens in a couple of missions time but BAD ILANIN no breaking your spoiler policy.  Although one thing to point out, that the Standoff devs could have done, was rip more taunts from WC4 and record a few more when dealing with human opponents: hearing pilots mistake pirates constantly for Kilrathi gets old pretty quickly. I know it's episode 1, the prologue, but I don't think it would have taken that much more effort to have human-specific taunts, and it would have been a neat little touch. Ilanin posted:And yes, it'll be a Sabre, I'm calling this vote since nobody has said Gladius. Update tomorrow.
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| # ? Jul 4, 2011 20:12 |
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7th August 2668, Capella System, Gemini Sector Episode 1, Mission 6 - Sabre Pursuit Captain Bradshaw launches in one of the two captured Sabres to chase down the fleeing pirate. Mission Briefing: No time for a briefing, other than "Follow that Sabre!"  Mission Video (Youtube) Kills this mission: 1 This mission is really not helping my kill average, is it? Anyway, this is probably the easiest mission yet, and it's still pretty easy in a Gladius. The only way you might reasonably lose to Sparrow is if you get tagged with a missile, or decide that going head-to-head in identical fighters is clever. One-on-ones are very rarely difficult in Wing Commander games (3 almost manages it, once). This mission has two endings depending on whether or not you pick Sparrow up. It also changes a few subsequent cutscenes, and I'm not sure if I know all of the ones that are different - also it'd be something of a pain to have to play all the missions twice - so we're going to make this choice, or rather, you guys are. Pick Sparrow up or leave her? I'll leave that open for somewhere around 24 hours, following which I'll post a big storyline update which will have the consequences of that decision, the cutscenes for the end of episode 1, the start of episode 2, and probably an excerpt from Fleet Action in an attempt to make some sense of them. Tactics Corner It's a duel. We're both in Sabres. Shoot at the other one, especially when it's turning. Not a huge amount of room for fancy tactics really. Also nobody who got this far is likely to have any difficulty with this mission. There is an easier mission, on the losing path of episode 5, but only one. Paths not taken: If you fly this mission in a Gladius it's slightly different. For starters, you don't manage to catch Sparrow before she jumps to the Famine system, leading to the following dialogue: : Lionheart, I've reached the jump point. Nothing here. How sure are we this is where the Sabre was headed?: You tell us, Captain. Scan the area near the jump buoy, see if your computer picks up jump traces.  : Scanner ready. Move within 5,000 metres of target and press I to activate.: Scanning samples for analysis. Please wait.: Sample scanned. Running analysis. : A jump trace has been detected. Analysis indicates jump drive activation 13 minutes ago.: Looks like we may have a match, Lionheart. I'm transmitting data. Should I make the jump?: Data recieved. You have permission to jump. Your orders remain the same - find that Sabre. : If they don't surrender, kill them. The Lionheart is enroute and will follow you to Famine as soon as possible. : Roger that. Activating the jump drive. Then you jump through to Famine, pick up on Sparrow's exhaust trail and track her down eventually. It's the same one-on-one fight, and not even really any harder since you've got the fighter-loaded Gladius's eight missiles to play with, while you're only carrying a single torpedo (limited use in a fighter engagement) in the Sabre. The dialogue is exactly the same as in the Sabre case, with the exception that the Lionheart follows you through the Famine jump point and picks you up on that side of it. I've never succeeded in making Sparrow taunt me in this fight. My guess is she doesn't have appropriate taunts. Ship of the day: Gilgamesh-class  Class: Destroyer Length: 312.11 Meters Mass: 10,000 tonnes Max Velocity: 250 kps Afterburner Velocity: n/a Maximum Yaw: 2 dps Maximum Pitch: 2 dps Maximum Roll: 2 dps Weapons (as designed): Flak Cannon (2x) Anti-Matter Guns (2x) Weapons (TCS Lionheart, 2668): Three additional turrets; I think they're all flak cannons. Shields: Phase Shields Armour: Front: 2500; Right: 2000; Left: 2000; Rear: 2500. Game says: The Gilgamesh-class destroyers have balanced defensive and offensive capabilities, and therefore are used in a number of different roles, though Confed has better destroyers when it comes to pure strike strength. In several sectors, they make up the bulk of Confleet's operation forces since the signing of the truce. I say: The Lionheart is a pretty good home base, putting out a decent amount of firepower. It can generally take care of itself well enough that you don't have to worry about protecting it, and you can even hide behind it on occasions. However, enemy forces in the prologue are somewhat light on anti-capship munitions. Still, seven turrets is respectable; and they do a reasonable amount of damage too. Say goodbye to it, though; the TCS Lionheart is about to be decommissioned. Total kills (Standoff): 6 missions / 50 kills Total kills (including previous thread): 119 missions / 972 kills Next time on Standoff: Kilrathi? In a Wing Commander game? Surely not.
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| # ? Jul 5, 2011 17:18 |
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Which choice results in less moping about in the future? Whichever one gives us that, I vote for it.
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| # ? Jul 5, 2011 17:33 |
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I'm not entirely sure which one that is. The amount of moping decreases dramatically regardless of the choice here, really. The end of episode one is pretty much the zenith of hating Bradshaw, he's about to become a lot more tolerable. You will hate Bradshaw slightly less for not picking her up, probably, but it makes him rather less consistent. Ilanin fucked around with this message at Jul 5, 2011 around 17:52 |
| # ? Jul 5, 2011 17:49 |
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Justice is decided in the courts, CALLSIGN, not with particle cannons. In other words, leave her behind and wait for your snooty French wingmate to get all moral.
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| # ? Jul 5, 2011 17:51 |
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sfwarlock posted:Justice is decided in the courts, CALLSIGN, not with particle cannons. A compelling argument! I guess we should pick her up, you know, for consistency.
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| # ? Jul 5, 2011 17:59 |
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Presumably we were at least slightly fond of this woman at some point. Let's pick her up because seriously, who leaves someone to die whenever their life support happens to give out? That's just cold. ...well, cold and potentially asphyxiatory.
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| # ? Jul 5, 2011 19:11 |
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| # ? May 24, 2013 17:33 |
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The thought of leaving someone floating out in space until their life support dies (Probably about a day.) or they get lucky enough to find someone who was dumb enough to fly be a pirate base is kinda horrifying. Besides. I knew you could pick up chicks in a Sabre.
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| # ? Jul 5, 2011 19:24 |
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