Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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arcsig: May 29, 2015

Minidust posted:

I'm about to play the original Quake in earnest for the first time. Is there no HUD in this game? I'm not seeing health or ammo counts; not sure if that's an intentional thing for the sake of immersion or what.

I'm running DarkPlaces and using the music linked in the OP . Anything else I should jump on for the best Quake experience? I got my Quake through iD mega pack on Steam, if that makes a difference.

Darkplaces should have an option to enable the HUD, it might be off by default to showcase the pretty graphics or something. Look around the menus and you'll probably find it.

Also, just out of curiosity, why do you capitalize it "iD"? I'm pretty sure their logo has never had it that way, always "id" (or "ID" in the early games like Keen/Wolf3D), but I see it a lot so I'm curious where it comes from.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2015 21:32

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 06:05

arcsig: May 29, 2015

I understand Brutal Doom has its appeal and all, but Doom's gameplay was really refined and well-tuned. It's the total opposite of Brutal Doom's "just throw in everything" approach.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2015 22:12

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Elliotw2 posted:

No one has submitted one before because they've been unable to actually finish the game in a reasonable timeframe, it's too hard.

It's less about the timeframe and more about the "single segment" part. Single segment in Doom speedrunning means it all needs to be recorded in one demo. Meaning no deaths, no saves. Plutonia NM single segment is... just insane.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2015 20:34

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Keiya posted:

(Off-topic: hey arcsig, is there a puyo thread?)

Not that I'm aware of.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2015 23:49

arcsig: May 29, 2015

SavageMessiah posted:

Hmm, maybe I can somehow alias a map <currentmap> and bind it to a key.

That's what Quake speedrunners do when they're grinding an IL. It's pretty slick to be able to restart with just a single key.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2015 03:18

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Alain Post posted:

HOME while playing prBoom+ normally restarts the current level at pistol-start. The problem is that this doesn't work when recording a demo, which means that if you gently caress up, you have to quit and run your .bat listing the PWAD/level/complevel all over again.

Yeah, changing it so you can start a demo without exiting the game in Quake was such a nice convenience. Recording demos in Doom can be a pain in the rear end sometimes.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2015 04:59

arcsig: May 29, 2015

I just gave Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold a shot for the first time. As someone who is a big fan of Wolf3D's simple arcadey gameplay, this game is a really neat twist on the formula. The silent pistol actually makes really cool use of the "stealth instakill" mechanic that went almost completely unused in Wolf3D, and the addition of an automap is a godsend, not just because it prevents you from getting lost, but it also means they can make the levels a lot more complex.

Getting released one week before Doom was a death sentence though, it's a shame nobody really talks about this game.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2015 21:35

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Woolie Wool posted:

The "stealth instakill" in Wolfenstein isn't an instakill, it just doubles the damage applied to the enemy.

Oh, does it? My mistake then, it seemed like it killed every time I did it, even on SS.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 01:13

arcsig: May 29, 2015

I don't get why they hyped up the demo by saying that Doom is about "combat and running really fast" but then all they show is really really slow gameplay with constant QTE executions.

I really hope it will be good but the demos didn't impress me. I'm guessing there's more to the gameplay but they just showed off that stuff for E3 because it's flashy.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 03:34

arcsig: May 29, 2015

I really hope the "enemies spraying out healing items when they die" is not a replacement for health kits and is turned off on the higher difficulties.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 04:35

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Cialis Railman posted:

New doom looks awesome, sorry some of you nerds are too old to appreciate good games I guess

I'm sure it'll be great, and I honestly haven't seen anyone in this thread claiming it will be downright terrible. Just criticisms on certain aspects.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 04:38

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Saying that, I would absolutely LOVE to have more first-person games that involved non-violence, as that genre seems to be just filled with them. Just because you're looking out of the protagonists eyes doesn't mean your mission needs to be to end someone/something's life or hurt them.

If you're looking for good non-violent first person games, Myst-likes were a quite popular genre in the late 90's and early 2000's and some of them are pretty good. Dark Fall, Rhem, and Schizm are a few examples. First-person adventure games have also made a bit of a resurgence lately but mostly with exploration-focused relaxation games that don't involve a lot of puzzle-solving, like Gone Home or Dear Esther.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 15:15

arcsig: May 29, 2015

The Kins posted:

Pinata monsters are probably the thing I have the least problems with in the Doom demo. They're a very videogame-y solution to resource acquisition.

They're a solution to a problem that never existed, the way oldschool shooters handled it was fine and is part of the reason why people like those games more than modern shooters.

The loot pinatas are only one step above auto-regenerating health.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 15:47

arcsig: May 29, 2015

RyokoTK posted:

Actually pickups being on the ground is not the reason why I like Doom, I like Doom because it's fast-paced and has fun guns and fun monsters to blow up, and loads of user-made content for it. I don't give two shits where the ammo comes from. Ammo conservation has never really been an explicitly stated part of Doom's gameplay, certainly no more than it is based on Doom 4's gameplay video. Sure there are wads that make you count out each shell, but that is absolutely a minority.

You're talking mostly about ammo but my issue is actually more regarding health. There were numerous times in the demo where the player was at low health and a single monster would bring him back to full.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 16:10

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Elliotw2 posted:

I'm really impressed that everyone's freaking out about game mechanics that are already in classic shooters. Blood already had the enemies dropping health thing and it worked there, Doom has always had enemies that exist entirely to give ammo gathering some basic challenge, it's just taking these ideas and modernizing them a bit more. It's also worth noting that these e3 demos are always played on the lowest difficulty with lots of cheats and scripts to keep the presenter from dying, so I wouldn't assume that the current pickup balance is final.

I haven't played a whole lot of Blood but I don't remember enemies dropping nearly as much health as seen in this demo. But your point about the pickup balance stands.

I'm mainly just concerned that it will discourage map exploration by making health pickups less important (if they even exist? I don't recall seeing a single health pack in that demo outside of monster pinatas), and that kind of change makes me skeptical about the level design in general.

I hope it doesn't come off like I hate the game because of this though because it looks pretty fun and I'll probably buy it.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 16:20

arcsig: May 29, 2015

BoredMarc posted:

Someone on twitter did some color manipulation on a doom screenshot:

https://twitter.com/RatCasket/status/610478646499766273

I like the color corrected one alot better. My initial reaction to the trailer was "not liking the art style" but I might actually play the game with a classic doom color correction mod.

Wow, it's kind of crazy how much better that looks.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 17:22

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Worst case scenario, someone mods the "classic" color-scheme into the game. So it's not really that big of a deal to me.

Of course it'd be nice if we didn't have to rely on mods.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 17:28

arcsig: May 29, 2015

E: Posted in the wrong thread, that's what I get for having two threads open in a small window.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 17:36

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Grimthwacker posted:

Also, the focus on using melee finishers to recover health and ammo can break the flow of things. And where's the pistol?

It looks like enemies drop health and ammo regardless of how they're killed. I really hope that's the case because I want to stay as far away from those finishers as I can.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 22:42

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Nintendo Kid posted:

It would be hilarious if the finishers actually result in less health/ammo popping out.

I'd actually be completely okay with this, like the ironsights in SS3 and the RotT reboot that don't actually do anything except make it harder to see what you're aiming at.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2015 22:52

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Tracula posted:

Alright, I'm brand new to this whole old FPS thing I got the Doom bundle on steam, Brutal Doom v20 and Zandronum. Dragging and dropping the .pk3 onto the exe works fine and the game mostly works but I can't seem to reload my second weapon when dual wielding and navigating the menus is more than a little bit of a headahce.

If you never played Doom, you really shouldn't be playing Brutal Doom.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2015 04:06

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Elliotw2 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCigiEuRvrA The ideal Doom 4.

What the gently caress

# ¿ Jun 18, 2015 06:17

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Elliotw2 posted:

That's almost all because this is the second time they showed this game and it's still more than a year out. They probably only have the Revanants, imps, and Zombiemen/plasmamen as working enemies right now.

This is kind of offtopic, but I've never really liked this excuse. The whole point of them showing us the game at E3 is to get us excited, right? So if it's not working, the "it's still in development" excuse seems like a cop-out. I mean, Doom 4 didn't even have one of those "ALPHA GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE SUBJECT TO CHANGE" disclaimers you usually see on early games.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2015 19:28

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Nintendo Kid posted:

It's working for a lot of people dude.

I know, and I'm one of them. The game looks cool. I was just throwing out some thoughts.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2015 19:35

arcsig: May 29, 2015

"It's not working" wasn't a point I was trying to make, just a theoretical scenario. I was just trying to say that if someone isn't excited for Doom 4, I don't think "well it's still in development" is a good excuse.

arcsig fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jun 18, 2015

# ¿ Jun 18, 2015 22:28

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Wamdoodle posted:

Just wanted to 2nd the recommendation against Wrack. It tries to bill itself as a combo focused kill a thon but the enemies take too much damage and are too far apart. The levels are definitely sparse, mostly straight hallways with small rooms connecting them. So disappointed with that one. Also, for being composed by Bobby Prince, the music leaves alot to be desired.

Seconding the music. When I heard the music in Wrack it surprised me how... forgettable it was. Prince must have really half-assed it. Like come on man, I know you can do better than this, you did the music for loving DOOM.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2015 03:58

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Zaphod42 posted:

I find this way is much easier than clicking on all those links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y3RWlDz_AA

There's a compilation of all of them in one MP3 at the bottom.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2015 05:31

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Nokiaman posted:

Just finished Hexen:DotDC! It was wayyyy less confusing than regular Hexen and I liked some of the maps a lot more.

I am playing Hexen II now and it's pretty cool how they handled the transition to 3D. Only odd thing is that move speed is faster when strafing for some reason. Feels really weird. I don't recall that in Q1
Also more poo poo to smash. Heck yeah!

For some bizarre reason, Hexen II's sv_maxspeed is cranked up to 640 by default. That's double speed compared to Quake's, which is 320. You move fast as hell which can be fun sometimes but other times can be hard to control.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2015 14:38

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Squeezy Farm posted:

They're giving the ECWolf guy a % of the sales which is chill.

It looks like it's actually the other way around. This whole project was set up by the ECWolf developer, and Wisdom Tree is allowing him to use their game as long as he pays a small licensing fee for each copy sold.

It's cool as hell, even if the game sucked I'd buy it just to support ECWolf but it's actually surprisingly fun.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2015 15:18

arcsig: May 29, 2015

A.o.D. posted:

I maintain that ziggurat vertigo was the best FPS map (3d and 2.5d) made during that decade.

It's a great map but it's a major pain in the rear end on Nightmare from shotgun start.

Why oh why are there so many shamblers?

# ¿ Jun 24, 2015 15:26

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Linguica posted:

So... they're allowing him to have a % of the sales...

It's actually not a percentage but a fixed fee. Also, according to him, even when bought at the standard price, he's still making more money than Wisdom Tree does off each sale.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2015 00:17

arcsig: May 29, 2015

That doesn't necessarily mean we don't need a source port, though. I mean even if Doom.exe still ran on modern windows, people would still play GZDoom.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2015 18:02

arcsig: May 29, 2015

E: Nevermind

# ¿ Jul 9, 2015 17:10

arcsig: May 29, 2015

I like HL1's gameplay more than HL2's but HL2 does an admittedly better job at building a world and telling a story.

# ¿ Jul 16, 2015 03:24

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Something about Cocoademons.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2015 21:46

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Alain Post posted:

Were any of the wave of retro-inspired FPSs in the past few years any good, really?

Does TNO count?

# ¿ Jul 24, 2015 06:17

arcsig: May 29, 2015

E: Wait, my mistake, this is old news I think.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2015 17:51

arcsig: May 29, 2015

I really don't want loadouts or unlock systems at all. Especially since the Rocket Launcher is one of the selectable weapons for your loadout. That's going to be a major blow to map control strategy.

Why do they assume they need to have those things for the game to succeed? Counter-Strike Global Offensive doesn't have loadouts and the unlocking systems are purely cosmetic, and that's one of the most popular shooters on PC right now.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2015 20:13

arcsig: May 29, 2015

Elliotw2 posted:

Probably because the same designers are the ones who did Quake Live.

Does Quake Live have those things now? I played it years ago and it was basically just Quake 3 with a web interface.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2015 20:17

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 06:05

arcsig: May 29, 2015

RyokoTK posted:

It's not impossible to assume that there will be some sort of spergy competitive mode where the items are on the map.

I think loadouts appeal to more casual FPS fans, which is probably a smart move for them.

Arena shooters are consistently niche and not popular.

Yeah, and it's still an arena shooter. It's just an arena shooter with loadouts now. I highly doubt people who don't like arena shooters are going to see loadouts and suddenly become invested in the game.

I don't know. You can probably ignore my whining. I'm just a really big fan of the strategic mindgames in classic multiplayer shooters, and loadouts are an incredibly efficient way of killing a lot of that. Imagine playing Quake 3 except everyone spawns with a Rocket Launcher. (Actually, is that pretty much what Quake Live is now?)

# ¿ Jul 24, 2015 20:28

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