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It is actually kind of amazing the extent to which the League movie gets everything wrong. Aside from every character being entirely off target (except Hyde to an extent; his main problem was the terrifically awful prosthetics), the complete lack of attention to how the world is put together is sort of an insult to the books. Moore's obsessive fastidiousness in piecing together every piece of fiction from the era is the most impressive and memorable thing about the book, and the movie takes that and pisses all over it. Tom Sawyer is the worst part; aside from how unnecessary it was to introduce him in the first place, having the American be Tom Sawyer is such a blatant disregard for both literature and mathematics that I'm surprised Moore didn't hunt down the executives in charge and murder them with his bear hands.
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| # ? Sep 9, 2011 22:14 |
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| # ? May 24, 2013 03:00 |
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The biggest atrocity is what they did to Mina's character. My friend who saw the movie in theaters and just recently read the comic didn't even remember Mina being in the movie, because beyond her name, she's not. She's really the main character of the series, and the newest issue reinforced that by focusing heavily on her psychological turmoil. In the movie, she was just something for all the men to ogle, and she embraces it. She's supposed to be a suffragette, for gently caress's sake! I'm going to admit, I do often daydream about who I'd pick to be involved with a total reboot of the film.
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| # ? Sep 9, 2011 22:24 |
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Also funny how they ditched Moore's climax even though what he wrote was more interesting from a visual and action standpoint. The comic ends with a massive battle over London of Moriarty's flying fortress versus Fu Man Chu's war kites while the League tries to sneak aboard.
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| # ? Sep 9, 2011 22:25 |
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Strange Matter posted:It is actually kind of amazing the extent to which the League movie gets everything wrong. Aside from every character being entirely off target (except Hyde to an extent; his main problem was the terrifically awful prosthetics), the complete lack of attention to how the world is put together is sort of an insult to the books. Moore's obsessive fastidiousness in piecing together every piece of fiction from the era is the most impressive and memorable thing about the book, and the movie takes that and pisses all over it. Tom Sawyer is the worst part; aside from how unnecessary it was to introduce him in the first place, having the American be Tom Sawyer is such a blatant disregard for both literature and mathematics that I'm surprised Moore didn't hunt down the executives in charge and murder them with his bear hands. Moore had enough after the law suit. I am sure his beard murders anyone who mentions the movie in his presence. Also it is sort of good they did not have Invisible man being raped to death by Hyde and that is the only good thing I can say about that movie.
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| # ? Sep 9, 2011 22:27 |
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Why does Alan Moore not have more control over the properties he creates, or brings to prominence? He's consistently pissed off about these adaptations, yet who is negotiating his contracts before he puts pen to paper? For being such a tremendous writer he seems a poor businessman.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 00:37 |
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Supreme Allah posted:Why does Alan Moore not have more control over the properties he creates, or brings to prominence? He's consistently pissed off about these adaptations, yet who is negotiating his contracts before he puts pen to paper? For being such a tremendous writer he seems a poor businessman. He does not own them, the comic companies do. However, he will put his collaborators names on things that he created, like Constantine.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 00:51 |
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bobkatt013 posted:He does not own them, the comic companies do. However, he will put his collaborators names on things that he created, like Constantine. And in the case of LOEG, he didn't create any of those characters.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 00:54 |
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Ya know, I don't fault Alan Moore for being mad that his movie properties are mostly terrible, but you'd think he'd be less offended about it considering he raped The Invisible Man to death.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 00:54 |
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penismightier posted:Ya know, I don't fault Alan Moore for being mad that his movie properties are mostly terrible, but you'd think he'd be less offended about it considering he raped The Invisible Man to death. Alan Moore gets mad if you step on his lawn
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 00:55 |
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bobkatt013 posted:Alan Moore gets mad if you step on his lawn And then when you're not looking, he'll surprise sex your lawn to death.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 00:55 |
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Also compared to some comic writers he gets treated awesome. Bill Finger is one that gets treated like absolute crap because Bob Kane was a much smarter businessman.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 00:59 |
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Moore has shown he has a sense of humor about his image. He did a really great cameo on The Simpsons where he rages about being asked to sign a copy of "Watchmen Babies in V for Vacation." The impression I've gotten from interviews with him is that he doesn't really care about the adaptations in themselves, he cares about the hassle they bring him. Like the LXG lawsuit or the producers of V for Vendetta claiming they had his approval when he didn't want anything to do with it.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 02:33 |
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muscles like this? posted:Moore has shown he has a sense of humor about his image. He did a really great cameo on The Simpsons where he rages about being asked to sign a copy of "Watchmen Babies in V for Vacation." Then in the background they have an advertisement of Lost Girls.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 02:35 |
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muscles like this? posted:Also funny how they ditched Moore's climax even though what he wrote was more interesting from a visual and action standpoint. The comic ends with a massive battle over London of Moriarty's flying fortress versus Fu Man Chu's war kites while the League tries to sneak aboard. The hilarious thing was apparently that was a huge scene that the director was all set for and hopped aboard the project for, but WHOOPS somebody else has the film rights to the Fu Manchu properties and wouldn't play ball. So instead we got...well, it would have been poo poo either way.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 06:10 |
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Mr. Maltose posted:The hilarious thing was apparently that was a huge scene that the director was all set for and hopped aboard the project for, but WHOOPS somebody else has the film rights to the Fu Manchu properties and wouldn't play ball. So instead we got...well, it would have been poo poo either way. But he's not even identified as Fu Manchu in the comic. Would they even need to play ball if the character resembling Fu Manchu was never called that? I mean, Big Trouble in Little China and Batman Begins both got away with it.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 06:13 |
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Fu Manchu has rights? I thought he was firmly in the public domain at this point.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 06:30 |
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:Fu Manchu has rights? I thought he was firmly in the public domain at this point. Nope he is not in public domain. That is why if he is used in most media he is unnamed. In Marvel it caused issues with Shang-Ch as his comic has not been reprinted. Also I want to know who he was in Bat-man begins.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 06:34 |
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bobkatt013 posted:Nope he is not in public domain. That is why if he is used in most media he is unnamed. In Marvel it caused issues with Shang-Ch as his comic has not been reprinted. Also I want to know who he was in Bat-man begins. The asian version of Ras. He did look a bit Fu Manchu-ish.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 06:42 |
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:The asian version of Ras. He did look a bit Fu Manchu-ish. Ya but he was cast as Ras, but then again all yellow peril characters go back to Fu Manchu. .
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 06:44 |
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Rake Arms posted:But he's not even identified as Fu Manchu in the comic. Would they even need to play ball if the character resembling Fu Manchu was never called that? I mean, Big Trouble in Little China and Batman Begins both got away with it. Right, Moore learned too late that the character wasn't public domain so instead of changing his story he just never actually named the character.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 07:06 |
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Apparently more* is actually quite amused that the V for vendetta mask became a meme. *Lol autocorrect. massive spider fucked around with this message at Sep 10, 2011 around 21:30 |
| # ? Sep 10, 2011 09:29 |
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V for Vendetta is an interesting case for comic books because all the iconography is in the mask. It really stresses the anonymity when there's no chest symbol you can slap on a t shirt. I'm sure there's an interesting discussion on super hero iconography and symbolism, but I'm not sure if this is the place for that. I think most of us are here for the set pics of Black Widow and Catwoman.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 12:28 |
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I assume I can post this here. Finally saw X-Men: First Class last night and it was pretty good, but not as great as I'd heard. I have one question though. When Sebastian Shaw and Eric have their showdown near the end, why can't Magneto just crush Shaw's head with the helmet he was wearing? Or is the anti-cerebro helmet not made of metal at all? Seemed like a pretty obvious plot hole to me. Also, Hank McCoy has some serious foot issues apparently. I thought that was incredibly weak motivation for an accomplished scientist and generally good looking guy to inject an untested vaccine on himself just because his feet were ugly. Seriously, dude? Just wear shoes and avoid the beach for Christ sake. And where was Jean Grey in this movie? Or Cyclops? Or Iceman? Were they ever even implied? I know Havoc was there, but the original line up was Jean, Hank, Bobby Drake and Scott Summers and they only used Beast for some reason. Pretty good flick overall though. Another question. Was the finale intended to be an alternate history of the Bay of Pigs or did I read too much into that? Best cameo ever by the way. You know who I'm talking about.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 19:32 |
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BiggerBoat posted:I assume I can post this here. Finally saw X-Men: First Class last night and it was pretty good, but not as great as I'd heard. I have one question though. When Sebastian Shaw and Eric have their showdown near the end, why can't Magneto just crush Shaw's head with the helmet he was wearing? Or is the anti-cerebro helmet not made of metal at all? Seemed like a pretty obvious plot hole to me. Beast's motivation is exactly the same as it was in the comics. So you are, in this post, complaining that his story was too close to the comics, and that the line up of the team wasn't the same as in the comics. The team is different because the movie is set in the 60's, and Jean, Scott, etc. wouldn't have even been born then, as they were all in their 20's in X-Men 1. And no, the finale is the Cuban Missile Crisis, not the Bay Of Pigs.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 21:19 |
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BiggerBoat posted:I assume I can post this here. Finally saw X-Men: First Class last night and it was pretty good, but not as great as I'd heard. I have one question though. When Sebastian Shaw and Eric have their showdown near the end, why can't Magneto just crush Shaw's head with the helmet he was wearing? Or is the anti-cerebro helmet not made of metal at all? Seemed like a pretty obvious plot hole to me. Magneto isn't stupid, so if he wanted to crush the helmet he likely would have. But let's say the helmet was, in fact, metal. In that case his lack of head crushing could easily be chalked up to the fact that while he likes Charles, he knows they have vastly different stances on how human/mutant relations are going to evolve. Knowing this, he would probably want that helmet to be perfectly intact for his use. This would be supported by his immediate use of the helmet once he took it from Kevin Bacon. EDIT: Re-added spoiler tags because it is kind of a spoiler.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 22:47 |
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TheJoker138 posted:Beast's motivation is exactly the same as it was in the comics. So you are, in this post, complaining that his story was too close to the comics, and that the line up of the team wasn't the same as in the comics. The team is different because the movie is set in the 60's, and Jean, Scott, etc. wouldn't have even been born then, as they were all in their 20's in X-Men 1. And no, the finale is the Cuban Missile Crisis, not the Bay Of Pigs. Right. I GOT the missile crisis thing. It was fairly obvious. That was in 62. Bay of Pigs was in 61. I just wondered if somehow they combined the 2 in the movie and used the mutant battle as a cover up for what really happened. I didn't know we were holding comics continuity in lock step with real US History in a movie that obviously plays fast and loose with historical facts and uses fictitious mutants to build alternative takes on genuine social commentary, but OK then. So really? Hank's whole hang up in the comics was his loving feet? Because I remember him being a bit more...um...beast like. Huge hands, gorilla posture, etc. I know he didn't go blue and furry originally, and lest you think I don't know my comics, I even know he was grey when he first transformed and that it was a result of trying to reverse his mutation, but I seem to remember it had more to do with his shoe size. In fact: quote:Hank is born with a vast intellect, unusually long arms and legs, and unusually large hands and feet for a human; in fact, his body's proportions are comparable to those of a gorilla and later stories reveal his nickname in school was "Magilla Gorilla". In the movie he was a good looking dude that had monkey feet. The original X-Men comic was written and set in 1963, so yes those characters would have been born by then, and the movies's even called "FIRST Class", so I thought that maybe, you know, they would use the FIRST X-Men, or at least reference them off-handedly somehow. That's all I was saying. And truthfully, you sound a little defensive about it for reasons I don't understand, and you also didn't answer my question about the helmet. I don't recall Havoc, Banshee, the dragonfly stripper chick or Emma Frost playing huge roles in the Stan Lee/Kirby blue and gold uniform originals in 1963 either but you don't see me bitching about it. Sorry you're wrong about Hank and totally misunderstood my post.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 22:59 |
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This movie is a whole new alternate reality that has nothing to do with the comic book of the same name, and I doubt it even leads directly into Bryan Singer's films. As for Beast, body image issues doesn't exactly conform to logic. It's the same way slim teenagers think of themselves as 'fat'.
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| # ? Sep 10, 2011 23:04 |
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BiggerBoat posted:Right. I GOT the missile crisis thing. It was fairly obvious. That was in 62. Bay of Pigs was in 61. I just wondered if somehow they combined the 2 in the movie and used the mutant battle as a cover up for what really happened. I didn't know we were holding comics continuity in lock step with real US History in a movie that obviously plays fast and loose with historical facts and uses fictitious mutants to build alternative takes on genuine social commentary, but OK then. I did understand your post. This movie is a prequel to the first three X-Men movies though, not a reboot. So it would make no sense at all for Scott, Jean, etc. to be in them, as they weren't in their 60's in the first X-Men movie. I didn't answer your Magneto helmet question cause I haven't seen the movie in a while and don't remember how exactly the scene played out, but the guy above this did a pretty good job of explaining with "Magneto wanted dat helmet." And as The MSJ said, yeah, Hank's body image issues aren't exactly logical, but most of them aren't.
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 00:05 |
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BiggerBoat posted:And where was Jean Grey in this movie? Or Cyclops? Or Iceman? Were they ever even implied? I know Havoc was there, but the original line up was Jean, Hank, Bobby Drake and Scott Summers and they only used Beast for some reason. Pretty good flick overall though. If I remember correctly, Cyclops (and Storm) showed up briefly in this film as children. They had to do it that way because Bryan Singer's trilogy showed them as fairly young adults in modern times, so they couldn't have been presented here as members of the original team without breaking film continuity (and yes, I'm pretty sure this film exists in the same universe as Singer's films, despite what The MSJ said) Beast was allowed to be in this film because he was shown to be an old man in Singer's films, and fits the time continuity pretty well that way. I still don't understand their decision to include Havok if they were trying to keep with Singer's timeline though. Pretty sure the director explicitly stated that they weren't going to show him as being related to Cyclops, which is kinda weird. I don't wanna give the wrong impression, though. Despite the weird liberties they've taken with the story/history, it's a fantastic film. McAvoy and Fassbender were perfect choices for their roles as Xavier and Magneto, respectively.
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 00:55 |
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bazaar apparatus posted:If I remember correctly, Cyclops (and Storm) showed up briefly in this film as children. They had to do it that way because Bryan Singer's trilogy showed them as fairly young adults in modern times, so they couldn't have been presented here as members of the original team without breaking film continuity (and yes, I'm pretty sure this film exists in the same universe as Singer's films, despite what The MSJ said) Yeah, im pretty sure Storm and Cyclops showed up during the first test of cerebro.
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 01:11 |
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So what happened to The Goon? I remember there was trailer floating around then it just dropped off the radar.
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 01:53 |
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I don't think breaking film continuity matters to the studio a whole lot at all. I've heard the Wolverine film had a number of problems. One being that he doesn't lose his memory from the adamantium injection but instead from an adamantium bullet? I don't think the studio should start retconning things that have to do with the general timeline. I don't think we need some Days of Future Past storyline suddenly coming up for X-Men 4 trying to tie all these alternate stories together do we? Yowza fucked around with this message at Sep 11, 2011 around 02:10 |
| # ? Sep 11, 2011 02:06 |
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bazaar apparatus posted:They had to do it that way because Bryan Singer's trilogy showed them as fairly young adults in modern times, so they couldn't have been presented here as members of the original team without breaking film continuity (and yes, I'm pretty sure this film exists in the same universe as Singer's films, despite what The MSJ said) It's been a while since I watched any of the X-Men movies, there's a couple things in Wolverine and First Class that directly contradict the first 3 movies. The biggest one that comes to mind is in X-men 3 when Xavier and Magneto visit Jean Grey together. The visited her in the 70's but they had parted ways in the 60's. Don't forget when a young Emma Frost shows up in Wolverine, which took place in the 70's as well. Professor X also shows up without a wheelchair. I'm not really sure how First Class can be in the same continuity.
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 02:10 |
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Exactly. I haven't watched the X-Men movies in quite a while but there's some other obvious minor things I just picked up such as Beast not having blue fur when he appears on the TV screen in X-Men 2. Not that it really matters a whole lot watching each one by itself but I think it would help make the movies flow together a lot better if the story integrity were maintained. Does anyone know if the Deadpool movie is supposed to fit in with the X-Men movies? Hopefully, it doesn't as that seems like it would be difficult to explain.
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 02:19 |
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Joe Don Baker posted:It's been a while since I watched any of the X-Men movies, there's a couple things in Wolverine and First Class that directly contradict the first 3 movies. The biggest one that comes to mind is in X-men 3 when Xavier and Magneto visit Jean Grey together. The visited her in the 70's but they had parted ways in the 60's. Don't forget when a young Emma Frost shows up in Wolverine, which took place in the 70's as well. Professor X also shows up without a wheelchair. I think the general assumption is the studio is acting like everyone else and pretending X-men 3 and Wolverine don't exist. Operating from that stand-point it fits quite well with the continuity of the first two films. edit: in regards to the guy above me, about Beast, it's an insanely quick cameo that mostly existed as a wink to comic book fans. Like I think there's a couple times you briefly see a list of known mutants and it's a bunch of other x-men characters. Skwirl fucked around with this message at Sep 11, 2011 around 02:29 |
| # ? Sep 11, 2011 02:26 |
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Yowza posted:I don't think breaking film continuity matters to the studio a whole lot at all. They did the injection, and past-Stryker called for a memory wipe, but that's when Wolverine flipped out and did the whole naked-erupting-from-the-tank thing we saw in the X-Men flashbacks. Not really a spoiler a guess, but: The memory loss came from when Stryker shot him in the head with the adamantium bullet at the very end of the film.
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 02:45 |
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TheJoker138 posted:I did understand your post. This movie is a prequel to the first three X-Men movies though, not a reboot. So it would make no sense at all for Scott, Jean, etc. to be in them, as they weren't in their 60's in the first X-Men movie. I didn't answer your Magneto helmet question cause I haven't seen the movie in a while and don't remember how exactly the scene played out, but the guy above this did a pretty good job of explaining with "Magneto wanted dat helmet." You're right. That actually makes a lot more sense when you frame the timeline around the movies. I see your point as that relates to the original line up. I sure didn't want to start a continuity argument because I don't care about that stuff and it makes for boring threads. Like I said, I thought it was a pretty drat good movie it just left me with a few questions.
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 03:01 |
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The First Class blu ray contains "mutant files" which reference all of the films. So if they're pretending X-Men 3 and Origins didn't exist then someone should tell them to not include official material on their movie. Like, they say Emma was both captured and was with Shaw, which is pretty much impossible but there they go! They don't reference Cyclops and Xavier dying, though. They really should ignore the first films and just say something caused an alternate universe or something as they go forward.
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 03:03 |
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quote:Haven't seen First Class, but I just watched Origins: Wolverine on TV and I thought about posting to say how much I liked it, apart from the retarded Deadpool boss battle sequence at the end. I suppose it just seemed like his brain would be fried from having molten metal (the same metal he was shot with) surround his skull yet still maintain his memory after that. Not a big deal really. I just caught that scene with wolverine jumping at Striker getting shot in the head and it came off pretty good. It was an interesting juxtapositioning to have a middle aged business man simply shoot him after the crazy fight he just had with Deadpool. It kind of brought things down somewhat to end the movie on a more thoughtful note. quote:The First Class blu ray contains "mutant files" which reference all of the films. So if they're pretending X-Men 3 and Origins didn't exist then someone should tell them to not include official material on their movie. Doesn't surprise me that the studio will make absolutely no effort to clarify things even when an oppurtunity presents itself. If they were to attempt the whole alternate universe thing they may as well quit now. 
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 03:22 |
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| # ? May 24, 2013 03:00 |
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I have a feeling as far as Singer and Vaughn were concerned, X3 and Wolverine didn't take place, but the studio would still like to make as many references to them as possible in special features so that people might go "I liked this movie, maybe I should watch this Wolverine movie," without really knowing what they're getting into. In other words, the Mutant Files feature is nothing but a big ad for the other X-Men movies, and I wouldn't really take anything that isn't actually in the film as being in continuity. I completely accept their decision to pretend X3 and Wolverine never happened. Oh, and one more word about the Magneto/Shaw helmet thing: They never show Magneto controlling it with his powers at all, not even after he's removed it from Shaw. My guess is the helmet that Shaw is wearing isn't metal, but maybe some kind of ceramic, or if it is metal, it's been somehow demagnetized, as Shaw was probably smart enough not to wear a big metal thing on his head when he knows there's a guy who can control metal out to gently caress his poo poo up. Magneto probably added metal to his version of it later, so that he could control it, as seen in X1.
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| # ? Sep 11, 2011 04:03 |
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