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Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Ex-Sweathog.

literallyincredible posted:

I didn't find that to be true at all. She's much more compassionate than most POV characters, and I found the stories of how most men had treated her her entire life, and the way she latches onto the few who show her any kind of kindness no matter ho obviously unavailable they are, to make for a really tragic and interesting mix when combined with her insistence on doing what she perceives as the right thing. I also find her to be a pretty compelling deconstruction of a fantasy archetype that usually doesn't get this kind of scrutiny.

We'll agree to disagree on this one. She's too much like Eddark Stark in that her stubbornness to do whatever she perceives as "right" ends up doing far more harm than good, and she lacks Eddards human qualities - like his love for his children, and wife, which are genuine, unlike Brienne, who's only love was Renly and was more of a crush than anything else.

I agree with you in that Martin certainly wants us to empathize with her, the problem is he just (in my opinion) ham-fisted it. After re-reading AFFC just recently I was again reminded just how many times he hammers in that she's an ugly, stubborn "wench", and little else.


literallyincredible posted:

Who the gently caress doesn't like Pod? Pod owns. His stammering of "Ser Milady" kills me every time, although that may just be because I imagine him as Michael Cera circa his Arrested Development years.

The problem with Pod is that he has so far been a gimmick, with one Deux Ex Machina moment. Yes, his stammering was amusing....in 2000, in ASOS. Now he's basically playing the exact same role for Brienne as he did for Tyrion, and suffers for it, because he went from some of the best chapters in the series to the worst. I don't dislike him, I just don't find him to be very interesting as a character. We get it, he's a shy, lonely, confused young kid thrust in to events too big for him; in a series that has a character like Arya Stark he doesn't hold up well, in my opinion.

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literallyincredible
Oct 23, 2008


quote:

We'll agree to disagree on this one. She's too much like Eddark Stark in that her stubbornness to do whatever she perceives as "right" ends up doing far more harm than good, and she lacks Eddards human qualities - like his love for his children, and wife, which are genuine, unlike Brienne, who's only love was Renly and was more of a crush than anything else.

I agree with you in that Martin certainly wants us to empathize with her, the problem is he just (in my opinion) ham-fisted it. After re-reading AFFC just recently I was again reminded just how many times he hammers in that she's an ugly, stubborn "wench", and little else.

Fair enough, but I think he hammers home Tyrion's ugliness/dwarfness (by which I mean also all of the myriad emotional issues he has because of this), or Jaime's handlessness, or Sam's fatness/cowardliness, or Theon's stupidity/douchiness, or any of his other POV character's primary flaws, just as much as he focuses on Brienne's flaws. And she is very Nedlike in a lot of ways--I suppose for readers who found Ned hard to like thats a flaw, but I've always had a soft spot for those kinds of characters. But, as you say, agree to disagree.

quote:

The problem with Pod is that he has so far been a gimmick, with one Deux Ex Machina moment. Yes, his stammering was amusing....in 2000, in ASOS. Now he's basically playing the exact same role for Brienne as he did for Tyrion, and suffers for it, because he went from some of the best chapters in the series to the worst. I don't dislike him, I just don't find him to be very interesting as a character. We get it, he's a shy, lonely, confused young kid thrust in to events too big for him; in a series that has a character like Arya Stark he doesn't hold up well, in my opinion.

If everyone was Arya, Arya wouldn't be as awesome. But Pod, despite his non-Aryaness, is cool. Yes, there's the "awkward geek" aspect which Martin usually plays for laughs, but he's also brave as hell, much smarter than he initially seems, and committed both to improving himself and to trying to do the right thing. One gets the sense with Pod that he's on his own hero's journey of sorts, but he's just such a shy little nerd that nobody's noticing because its happening in the corners of the narrative and he never calls attention to it.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Paper Lion posted:

So I am sure all you sperglords are gonna get the book and be all "heh it sucks do I get wildcards cred now? HEH " but it's honestly pretty good. Like, miles better than Feast. The jon chapters are interesting, the way he shows how hosed up Meereen ends up is really cool, and yeah Tyrion chapters are somehow the lowpoint but rather than claim it's all bad writing there (some of it can be though I admit) I think that really is more just a testament to how well written the rest of the book is.

Point is, don't be slamming on Dance. I'm not sure if it was worth waiting through 6 years of water damaged calendars, NFL, pizza and Wild Cards bullshit, but it's a drat strong addition to the saga.

Only read the first third so far, but I agree based on how it's been progressing. The new book is far better than Feast and almost as good as ASOS in my eyes.

the gulper caper
Feb 22, 2004
tastes like candy

Rednik posted:

I don't think Aegon's alive. The guy who says he's Aegon is merely posing. Hence, mummer's dragon.

if we're not allowed to post spoilers i'll remove this immediately

to clear up any doubt that it's the real aegon: it's not like a guy shows up out of the blue and declares he's aegon. tyrion joins a party formed by illyrio and varys to go aid dany; the group consists of a septa, a maester, a sellsword,a couple of no consequence, and a man named griff and his son griff jr. tyrion concludes that griff jr. is someone of import because the boy is being trained to fight by the sellsword, getting instructions about the faith and history of westoros from the septa and maester, and notices that his hair is obviously dyed. he eventually pieces together that griff is jon connington and griff jr is aegon. connington confirms that it is indeed aegon, and that the baby gregor killed was a replacement put there by varys. conningon, the septa, and the maester have been grooming aegon for rule the entire time. connington's POV ends with him, aegon, and the golden company preparing to take back storm's end .

this is all made possible by varys, who remained at court after the end of Aerys's rule in order to sew as much discord as possible to leave the realm vulnerable for aegon's eventual return. he confirms this to a dying kevan lannister in the epilogue after delivering a fatal crossbow to the abdomen.

SmugDogMillionaire posted:

I've spoiled myself pretty significantly and the reason he dies is pretty loving depressing.

also, i think a major contributing factor was jon allowing all of the wildlings through the wall and settling them in abandoned night's watch fortresses. this only validated those in the watch that secretly harbored suspicions that he was still for the wildlings. his reasoning is that they will help fortify the wall and the fewer dead wildlings there are beyond the wall, the fewer wights the watch will have to fight in the inevitable invasion.

i finished the book this weekend. if there's any more interest in spoilers i'd be happy to help as much as possible. i'm relatively new to the series. having just read the previous books in april in preparation for the HBO show, there's probably a ton of connections i've missed that you guys can probably help me with. apologizing in advance if this comes off disconcerted, still processing everything myself.

the reek/theon chapters were easily my favorites, second to jon's, whose were always fairly depressing at times. the bolton family is beyond hosed up and, somehow, roose manages to be more despicable than ramsay.

edit:


Paper Lion posted:

Point is, don't be slamming on Dance. I'm not sure if it was worth waiting through 6 years of water damaged calendars, NFL, pizza and Wild Cards bullshit, but it's a drat strong addition to the saga.

also, when you considered that it was supposed to be one volume which included AFFC (i think, right?), it's a major advancement for the ASOIAF story and its characters. If AFFC and ADWD were to be combined as originally intended, I think "a feast for crows" would win as the more appropriate chapter. with the death of tywin in ASOS, i feel it heralded a new generation of players who needed to step up replace important characters in the ASOIAF series that died in books 1-4, like aemon, ned, robert, the arthur daynes and howland reeds, ect. i really enjoyed adwd.

the gulper caper fucked around with this message at Jul 7, 2011 around 01:45

literallyincredible
Oct 23, 2008


I work for Random House, though in an entirely separate imprint, and the people I know who've gotten copies say its definitely better than Feast so far and maybe better than Clash. Dunno how much that counts for, except I'm deliriously excited, much more than I thought I'd be. The show reminded me of everything I love about this series, and the promise of a real loving up-to-par installment in the series with all these characters I love honestly has me losing my poo poo a little bit.

Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Ex-Sweathog.

literallyincredible posted:

Fair enough, but I think he hammers home Tyrion's ugliness/dwarfness (by which I mean also all of the myriad emotional issues he has because of this), or Jaime's handlessness, or Sam's fatness/cowardliness, or Theon's stupidity/douchiness, or any of his other POV character's primary flaws, just as much as he focuses on Brienne's flaws. And she is very Nedlike in a lot of ways--I suppose for readers who found Ned hard to like thats a flaw, but I've always had a soft spot for those kinds of characters. But, as you say, agree to disagree.

True, but those characters are all awesome in other ways, I'd almost say in spite of Gurm's insistence on beating a point home (which I agree with you on, for all of them). I think the difference is, in Brienne's case she agrees with everyone's opinion of her - as written, she sees herself as badly as others do, and so naturally the reader is pulled in that direction as well, where with (better) characters, it's nearly the opposite. You root for them, to succeed or fail, but root all the same.

That's a big difference from the others. Tyrion? He knows he's an ugly dwarf, but says gently caress that, pass the wine and ho's. Jaime knows lots of people despise him, and he can't fight well without his sword hand, but gently caress them and gently caress that, he's going to train around it anyway. Sam knows he's a big fat crybaby craven but gently caress that, if an Other shows up that fucker is going to get so owned and he'll be a mad pimp when he gets his chain - he's already forged the "fuckery" link thanks to Gilly! And Theon's entire story could be summed up as "they don't think I have it in me, but gently caress them" (oops! They were right!). It all works out to varying degrees but in the end that's what makes them awesome.

Brienne? She's big, manly, flat chested, ugly, good with a sword and naive as poo poo. People who know her know it, people who don't know her know it, she knows it, there are probably songs about it, even in chapters she isn't in it gets brought up. The only thing she's got going for her is a sense of duty and honor, which leads her on a journey to find Catelyn Starks daughters because Catelyn was nice to her once for 5 minutes, and as I said before we all know that is just a waste of time because we know where the daughters are.

literallyincredible posted:

but he's just such a shy little nerd that nobody's noticing because its happening in the corners of the narrative and he never calls attention to it.

Yes, but that's his problem. It's all good, you like that about him, difference of opinion and all that, but what I said earlier wasn't that I didn't like him, just that he was kind of boring

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007



the gulper caper posted:

somehow, roose manages to be more despicable than ramsay.

I...really didn't think that was possible. Then again, I guess you can't expect a kid to be raised in a place called the Dreadfort with a family history of skinning people to come out normal.

the gulper caper
Feb 22, 2004
tastes like candy

CronnySockett posted:

I...really didn't think that was possible. Then again, I guess you can't expect a kid to be raised in a place called the Dreadfort with a family history of skinning people to come out normal.

this is from roose to ramsay, referring to theon: "Get the keys and remove those chains from him, before you make me rue the day I raped your mother. it's easily one of my favorite lines in the book because it's so . he's as terrible, if not worse, than ramsay; he has less of a reputation because he's lowkey and deliberately cultivates a boring image for himself. but yeah, "dreadfort" is a dead loving giveaway, i mean cmon! there should have been routine inspections on that creepy motherfucker. seriously, if you go into something unironically called the "dreadfort", then gently caress you, youre ridiculous.

the gulper caper fucked around with this message at Jul 7, 2011 around 02:15

Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Ex-Sweathog.

I don't want to be spoiled on ADWD, but I understand that (I'll spoiler all this just in case) Bloodraven, or the story of Bloodraven, is somehow involved so I am trying to remember from the books/Novella - we know that he's one of the "Great Bastards", and was the Hand at one point, and then Egg shipped his rear end off to the Wall, where he became Lord Commander. That's all been established pre-Dance. What I am trying to remember is if anything is said about what happened to him? Did Mormont become Lord Commander after him? Is it mentioned that he wandered off somewhere, died, or is all that left unsaid to date?

Just trying to get the story to date straight before the 12th.

A Typical Goon
Feb 25, 2011

I'm not fat I'm big buffed


So I was just thinking about Feast, and wasn't there some random band of sellswords that broke some contract that they kept bringing up? Are they in Dance?

hampig
Feb 11, 2004
...curioser and curioser...

The Golden Company, and yes, from what little I've seen. Supposedly founded by another one of the 'Great Bastards' from 2 posts up.

Rednik
Apr 10, 2005




Ixian posted:

I don't want to be spoiled on ADWD, but I understand that (I'll spoiler all this just in case) Bloodraven, or the story of Bloodraven, is somehow involved so I am trying to remember from the books/Novella - we know that he's one of the "Great Bastards", and was the Hand at one point, and then Egg shipped his rear end off to the Wall, where he became Lord Commander. That's all been established pre-Dance. What I am trying to remember is if anything is said about what happened to him? Did Mormont become Lord Commander after him? Is it mentioned that he wandered off somewhere, died, or is all that left unsaid to date?

Just trying to get the story to date straight before the 12th.

All you know is that he was supposedly a sorcererous Hand of the King who ended up in the black cells and then joined the Night's Watch, eventually rising up to become Lord Commander. I'm not sure if he immediately preceded Mormont, but I think Denys Mallister's memories of previous elections in the end of ASOS indicate that there have been several LC's between them.

Also, it is strongly implied that Bloodraven could change his appearance like a faceless man in The Mystery Knight.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

Hockey is a game of love, man.


Ixian posted:

The crappy thing is that, because of the larger story it's wrapped in, it's easy to miss the real point of her chapters, which is to show the effect of the wars on the regular people of Westeros.
You know, it's funny you say that, because I think the blandness of the Brienne character helped to shift attention to that larger story, and when I first read Feast I focused almost entirely on that background of "what has happened to Westeros."

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

Hockey is a game of love, man.


CronnySockett posted:

I...really didn't think that was possible. Then again, I guess you can't expect a kid to be raised in a place called the Dreadfort with a family history of skinning people to come out normal.

I mean...this shouldn't be a big shock. Back in ACOK (or was it ASOS) he pretty much gives Arya the old "if you don't behave 100% like I expect you to from here on out I'm going to start removing pieces" routine.

hampig
Feb 11, 2004
...curioser and curioser...

Habibi posted:

You know, it's funny you say that, because I think the blandness of the Brienne character helped to shift attention to that larger story, and when I first read Feast I focused almost entirely on that background of "what has happened to Westeros."

There's also the little mini-mystery story of the massacre at Saltpans which plays out in those chapters, even if Brienne herself hasn't set out to find out about it.

Hannibal Rex
Feb 13, 2010


Dance is certainly better than Feast. It's not as strong as the first three, and it shares some of Feast's problems, but it's a clear improvement.

However, by this point, there's some fatigue setting in when it comes to new characters. Martin's no longer able to keep new POV characters fresh, and I had a hard time caring about most of them. And some of his narrative tricks are getting annoyingly repetitive by now.

I liked the Aegon plot overall, but it would've worked a lot better had he been introduced in book 2 or a trilogy, as was Martin's original intent when he started writing, rather than book 5 of a supposed 7 book series. (It won't be 7 books.)

The Theon chapters are great, and one Tyrion chapter in particular is also pretty harrowing. But overall, Dance is mostly set-up. Again.

Decius
Oct 14, 2005

You would be wise not to take me lightly, Your Grace... and wiser still not to make of me a foe

Ixian posted:

I agree with you in that Martin certainly wants us to empathize with her, the problem is he just (in my opinion) ham-fisted it. After re-reading AFFC just recently I was again reminded just how many times he hammers in that she's an ugly, stubborn "wench", and little else.

Well, she is a woman who has none of the attributes that are important for a woman in this society. She's ugly. She's not particularly clever. She's of noble birth, but of very minor one. She's lovely at any of the "womanly arts". Her redeeming qualities are her loyality, honor and amazing ability to fight, which are all great in men, but except the first two, which aren't really apparent until people know her better. For her world she is a freak and it is no wonder she has internalized this view of herself.

She would have been less of a oddity and would have have a lot more self-esteem if she was born/lived in the North, Dorne or the Iron Islands, where women fighting isn't that uncommon (see the Mormonts, Sand Snakes, Asha Greyjoy).


Ixian posted:

The only thing she's got going for her is a sense of duty and honor, which leads her on a journey to find Catelyn Starks daughters because Catelyn was nice to her once for 5 minutes, and as I said before we all know that is just a waste of time because we know where the daughters are.

And that's my problem with the story line summed up. It is a story that's now 10 years running, nearly as long as Don Quixote, but far less funny and far more boring and even more futile. We know that the only way she will find the girls is when they come out of hiding. Currently she doesn't really have a shot at being able to fulfill her promise barring a miracle (Arya coming back to Westeros and stumbling over her/a misstep by Littlefinger). Yeah, it shows us Westeros is a lovely place during/after the war. But we knew that already.

Decius fucked around with this message at Jul 7, 2011 around 07:55

AlteredAtronach
Jul 13, 2009


I just finished ASoS. Does AFFC really suck that badly or is it mostly just because of the Brienne parts? Wondering if it's better to just skip it and move on to Dance when it comes out

Aurubin
Mar 17, 2011

A smug, enlightened bastard

Feast doesn't suck. For those who read the series as the books came out it was a bit of a shock when none of the "main" characters got chapters. The writing is still good, the character development good for those it focuses on. The problem with the Brienne chapters is that her endeavor is fruitless at the get go, and is somewhat boring in truth. Don't skip it, imo.

literallyincredible
Oct 23, 2008


quote:

But overall, Dance is mostly set-up. Again.

I don't see why thats inherently a bad thing-Clash is almost nothing but setup. It has one bigass battle at the end, but apart from that its almost entirely just moving characters into position, peppered with awesome character moments. I mean, as much as I love Tyrion as Hand and all his scheming, in the overall plot sense its almost entirely unimportant except for a few of the betrothals he brokers--it is what you call "set-up", and set-up that doesn't amount to much until the end of Book 3 and into Book 4. Jon, Dany, Arya...all the big fan favorites spend the entirety of Clash just moving into position so that the seeds are laid for Jon to join the Wildlings and so Dany will see the HoU prophecy and Arya gets her faceless man coin. But without Clash, there's no Storm, and moreover Clash itself is a really good read regardless of how set-uppy it is.

literallyincredible
Oct 23, 2008


quote:

I just finished ASoS. Does AFFC really suck that badly or is it mostly just because of the Brienne parts? Wondering if it's better to just skip it and move on to Dance when it comes out

No it really doesn't suck that badly, except if its all you have to go on for over a decade. Read at a normal pace, as part of a series sandwiched between Storm and Dance, Feast is fine--a few missteps (aka Darkstar), but there's some really good stuff in there as well, and it lays a lot of really interesting plot groundwork.

nwin
Feb 25, 2002
How much longer do I have?

So can someone just spoil two things for me?

Do Catelyn and Joffrey ever loving die? I hate Joff because he's a smug prick, and reading any Catelyn chapter makes me hate her even more. I'm halfway through Storm of Swords.

scaevola
Jan 25, 2011


nwin posted:

So can someone just spoil two things for me?

Do Catelyn and Joffrey ever loving die? I hate Joff because he's a smug prick, and reading any Catelyn chapter makes me hate her even more. I'm halfway through Storm of Swords.

Yes

nuncle jimbo
Apr 3, 2009



nwin posted:

Do Catelyn and Joffrey ever loving die? ... I'm halfway through Storm of Swords.

Yes

...but Cat comes back as a zombie (no, seriously) after Walder Frey kills her and Robb and sews Grey Wind's head to Robb's body and Tyrion kills Tywin and Gregor and the Red Viper kill eachother but apparently now loving Gregor is going to be a zombie too jesus what in the gently caress and Arya goes blind and Jon gets stabbed and loving HODOR DIES

I hope that answers your question.

nuncle jimbo fucked around with this message at Jul 7, 2011 around 13:12

Naerasa
Aug 5, 2004

Do you not know that Death is the servant of Chaos?

nwin posted:

So can someone just spoil two things for me?

Do Catelyn and Joffrey ever loving die? I hate Joff because he's a smug prick, and reading any Catelyn chapter makes me hate her even more. I'm halfway through Storm of Swords.

Oh man you couldnt just wait like ten more pages could you

meanolmrcloud
Apr 5, 2004

rock out with your stock out



AlteredAtronach posted:

I just finished ASoS. Does AFFC really suck that badly or is it mostly just because of the Brienne parts? Wondering if it's better to just skip it and move on to Dance when it comes out

Briennes chapters, the more i think about them, are pretty boring and extremely long but serve a good purpose and, I can't believe it hasn't been brought up, have a brutal payoff. There are lots of points of dread in the book, but when Brienne was getting her face chewed off i just felt plain bad. poo poo was rough.

whowhatwhere
Mar 15, 2010


Rednik posted:

Also, it is strongly implied that Bloodraven could change his appearance like a faceless man in The Mystery Knight.

I never read the Dunk and Egg books, would you summarize that bit? I don't recall it showing up in the summaries I read.

coyo7e
Aug 23, 2007


I didn't ask for this Coyote myth.

Rednik posted:

All you know is that he was supposedly a sorcererous Hand of the King who ended up in the black cells and then joined the Night's Watch, eventually rising up to become Lord Commander. I'm not sure if he immediately preceded Mormont, but I think Denys Mallister's memories of previous elections in the end of ASOS indicate that there have been several LC's between them.

Also, it is strongly implied that Bloodraven could change his appearance like a faceless man in The Mystery Knight.
This strongly smacks of a man.

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004


whowhatwhere posted:

I never read the Dunk and Egg books, would you summarize that bit? I don't recall it showing up in the summaries I read.
The theory is that Ser Maynard Plumm is Bloodraven in some sort of disguise because:
_his face looks blurry to Dunk at one point
_they have the same physic and the same sense of humor, they use the exact same words to describe the tournament ("in this nest of adders") and Plumm defends Bloodraven's politic at some point.
_when Dunk throws down a guy into a well and turns down to see Plumm, it looks like Plumm only got one eye under his hood for a brief second
_when Dunk says that if the rumor about Aegon the Unworthy loving everything with tites were true they would all be Targaryen bastards, Plumm's answers is "Who's to say we're not?".
_Plumm disappears just before Bloodraven appears and Bloodraven seems very well informed of everything that happened during the tournament.
_Bloodraven is rumored to be a mighty sorcerer (well he is, thank you Amazon.de), same for his mistress (and half-targaryen sister) and he is rumored to be everything from a shadowbinder, a warg (dah) and a faceless man.

But it may be pure theorycrafting and Plumm could 'just' be a simple spy.

Also the title is The Mystery Knight. Dunk is a mystery knight in the tournament but both Plumm and Daemon Blackfire are "mystery" knights in their own way. The "son" of Fireball could be considered one too but it may just be because i think he is the edge knight with best origin story ever.

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at Jul 7, 2011 around 17:02

PeterWeller
Apr 20, 2003

I told you that story so I could tell you this one.


meanolmrcloud posted:

Briennes chapters, the more i think about them, are pretty boring and extremely long but serve a good purpose and, I can't believe it hasn't been brought up, have a brutal payoff. There are lots of points of dread in the book, but when Brienne was getting her face chewed off i just felt plain bad. poo poo was rough.

I do like how the plot about the warrior maiden going to rescue the princess ends with a nasty brawl in the mud. That was fun trope subversion.

literallyincredible
Oct 23, 2008


Well, the early reviews are really, really good.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/artic...l#ixzz1RQp4RHNe
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ire-series.html
http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/06/dance-with-dragons/

quote:

In 2005 I wrote a review of George R. R. Martin's novel A Feast for Crowsin which I called him "the American Tolkien." The phrase has stuck to him, as it was meant to. I believed Martin was our age and our country's answer to the master of epic fantasy. Now it's six years later, and I've read Martin's new novel, A Dance with Dragons, and I'm happy to report that I was totally right.

quote:

Is Dance better than Book 4?
Definitely. Iíd rank the Ice and Fire series: 3>1>5>2>4.

quote:

A Dance With Dragons, the longest of the installments of A Song of Ice and Fire to date, might also be Martinís finest work yet, a taut and relentless masterpiece.

Seems people--even those who readily admit the weaknesses of Feast--like it a lot and think its definitely up there with the first 3 (though the reports I've heard from fellow readers tend to agree with the EW assessment that it might be better than Clash but doesn't top Game or Storm).

The fact that I'll be able to judge for myself in a few days still blows my mind.

literallyincredible fucked around with this message at Jul 7, 2011 around 18:30

Iseeyouseemeseeyou
Jan 3, 2011


meanolmrcloud posted:

Briennes chapters, the more i think about them, are pretty boring and extremely long but serve a good purpose and, I can't believe it hasn't been brought up, have a brutal payoff. There are lots of points of dread in the book, but when Brienne was getting her face chewed off i just felt plain bad. poo poo was rough.

Just about finished with AFFC and thinking back on it, Brienne's are probably one of my most favorite Chapters in AFFC due to the amount of useless detail, background information, etc. that is contained in them.

Seriously though, Gregor's head was taken off. Back as a zombie?

e: I'm talking about Brienne in AFFC. She was boring as gently caress in ASoS.

Ross
May 25, 2001

German Moses

I wish he would call it "A Song of Fire and Ice". Just sounds better to me

Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Ex-Sweathog.

literallyincredible posted:

Well, the early reviews are really, really good.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/artic...l#ixzz1RQp4RHNe
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ire-series.html
http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/06/dance-with-dragons/




Seems people--even those who readily admit the weaknesses of Feast--like it a lot and think its definitely up there with the first 3 (though the reports I've heard from fellow readers tend to agree with the EW assessment that it might be better than Clash but doesn't top Game or Storm).

The fact that I'll be able to judge for myself in a few days still blows my mind.

That's good news for me, because - call me crazy - Clash is my favorite book. I mean, I love 1 and 3 as well, and even am coming around a bit to 4, but 2 has always been my favorite. Yes, I know it's just a bridge to ASOS where all the good poo poo goes down. Yes, the Dany stuff is not up to the standards of the rest of the book. I don't care, I still like it best, so maybe this means good things for me and ADWD.

whowhatwhere
Mar 15, 2010


Except for the House of the Undying, which was the best chapter in the book.

threeagainstfour
Jun 27, 2005

"First lesson. Stick 'em with the pointy end."


Glad to hear that it's actually a good read. Once I heard that it doesn't deliver on moving some major plot threads forward, I was at least hoping for an enjoyable read. There are few works of fiction I've just plum enjoyed reading as much as the Song of Ice and Fire series.

Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Ex-Sweathog.

I am feeling like a lunatic at the moment: First I pre-ordered the hardcover on Amazon because I have all the others even though all my reading these days is electronic. Then I pre-ordered the loving hardcover on Amazon.uk even though I live in the US. Why? Because I have all the other UK editions, which have different covers (and in the case of ACOK, slightly different editing as well).

Why do I have the UK editions? Because, as some of you may remember, starting with ACOK in 1998 the books were released several months early overseas (in the case of 2 and 3, over 5 and 6 months early) and if you ordered off Amazon's UK site - this was back when they were only known as booksellers online - you could get it shipped to the US even though back then technically they weren't supposed to. This has been the case with all the following books until now, but even though ADWD is being released simultaneously this time around the UK edition still has a different cover, and I have signed editions of the others, so.....gently caress it.

And on top of all this today I pre-ordered it for the Kindle because that's the version I'll actually read. Gurm is getting his due today, I guess.

neongrey
Feb 28, 2007



Ixian posted:

I am feeling like a lunatic at the moment: First I pre-ordered the hardcover on Amazon because I have all the others even though all my reading these days is electronic. Then I pre-ordered the loving hardcover on Amazon.uk even though I live in the US. Why? Because I have all the other UK editions, which have different covers (and in the case of ACOK, slightly different editing as well).

Why do I have the UK editions? Because, as some of you may remember, starting with ACOK in 1998 the books were released several months early overseas (in the case of 2 and 3, over 5 and 6 months early) and if you ordered off Amazon's UK site - this was back when they were only known as booksellers online - you could get it shipped to the US even though back then technically they weren't supposed to. This has been the case with all the following books until now, but even though ADWD is being released simultaneously this time around the UK edition still has a different cover, and I have signed editions of the others, so.....gently caress it.

And on top of all this today I pre-ordered it for the Kindle because that's the version I'll actually read. Gurm is getting his due today, I guess.

Well, you beat me out. I thought I was crazy for just getting the Kindle version and the US hardcover (because I'll read the kindle, but I just have to have my dumb physical copy). But I don't need two physical copies.

Sweet As Sin
May 8, 2007

Hee-ho!!!


I don't even know when I'll go to the US (if I go at all), so I don't know when I'll read it. I'm bummed about it.

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Umph
Apr 25, 2008



Hey what happened to the bad thread? I've been gone for a few months. Is the book really coming out in a few days? Gosh!

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