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HORATIO HORNBLOWER posted:Here's my thing. (Besides all the other problems with this plotline that have already been mentioned.) There's a plotline early on--season one or two, I can't recall--where some information is deliberately withheld from CJ so she has plausible deniability in front of the press. CJ is ticked and I think it's resolved not to do that anymore because she's a valued member of the team and hugs for everyone, etc. But when we're talking about a super secret military space vehicle--what reason would CJ have to have access for that information? And for that matter, what reason would Toby? She's the press secretary; he's in charge of communications. Unless they were planning on announcing that the vehicle existed--which, clearly, they weren't--then there isn't any plausible reason why either or both of those people would have access to that information. I'm not exactly an expert on information security, but that seems obvious, right? Didn't Toby know about it only because of his brother?
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 02:49 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 01:31 |
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HORATIO HORNBLOWER posted:Here's my thing. (Besides all the other problems with this plotline that have already been mentioned.) There's a plotline early on--season one or two, I can't recall--where some information is deliberately withheld from CJ so she has plausible deniability in front of the press. CJ is ticked and I think it's resolved not to do that anymore because she's a valued member of the team and hugs for everyone, etc. But when we're talking about a super secret military space vehicle--what reason would CJ have to have access for that information? And for that matter, what reason would Toby? She's the press secretary; he's in charge of communications. Unless they were planning on announcing that the vehicle existed--which, clearly, they weren't--then there isn't any plausible reason why either or both of those people would have access to that information. I'm not exactly an expert on information security, but that seems obvious, right? CJ was Cheif of Staff by that time wasn't she? Everything post mid season five gets kind of muddled for me as not much of it was interesting until Santos started getting involved. I thought the leak happened at the very end of season 6, and leo had the hear attack during the episode at camp david( I don't remember which one that was)?
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 02:55 |
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Both of those are good points, thanks. I forgot the thread of the chronology around that plot.
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 02:59 |
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Leo's heart attack was second episode of Season 6, and Season 6 is also where CJ becomes press secretary, I think at the end of the third episode ("I need you to jump off a cliff.") And speaking of Leo and his inconsistent view towards war, he used to work for a defense contractor, and was still buddy buddy with the company, so that confounds things even more.
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 03:42 |
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I know this is from a few pages back, but I found that Yo Yo Ma scene on youtube. Apparently Spanish speakers were as much of a fan of it as I was. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdVvgyqSTrk So.drat.Good.
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 04:46 |
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GOG.com has Wing Commander IV which features John Spencer. I love John Spencer and I would watch that man pick blueberries for an hour. I absolutely hate his character in the game. Because John Spencer is such a great actor that I can honestly loathe him the second I see him even though I love him so much. Does that make sense?
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 04:54 |
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More on my love of C.J. Cregg: I did dig out my Season 3 DVD and watched The Women of Qumar. I'm pretty sure that Allison Janney is the only actress who could've pulled off "Thank God we never had to refuel in Johannesburg!" without coming across as a colossal tool. And then the look on her face.  Oh, C.J. 
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 04:56 |
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Just binged through the thread in much the same way as I binged through the series a couple years back. Some of the finest, most addictive television ever. Took up most of a January I think. The thing I love most is the way the dialogue doesn't talk down to the audience. Most television, not just now but in the past too, is based around Stupidity. Characters are dumb, we laugh at them, ho hum. In TWW, The characters are smart, they like being smart. They don't stand for idiocy, they relish intelligence. I don't think there's really any other show like that. Also there's the excitement of being in the middle of all the high level action that goes on. Combined with some of the silly comedic quirkiness, it's just gold all round. I'm surprised by the lack of love for Charlie in the thread. He barely rates a mention, yet he's easily one of my favourite characters in the show. And Donna. And even though I feel like she doesn't always fit, Amy is terrific too, and a pretty good counter balance to the rest of the show. Interestingly enough I think I like Sam the least. Or maybe it's Rob Lowe. I don't know, maybe I find him insufferably smug. The way he talks, it's just a bit too fast, or something I can't quite put my finger on. Also I don't know how you guys can skip episodes on re-watches. You're robbing yourself of extra WW, drat it   Been waiting till I have someone to introduce it to to watch it again, but might just jump in and go for it. Watching all of them of course. Edit - Highlights that I can remember: * President doing Charlie's taxes, and Charlie owing them money. Then the president buys him a DVD player anyway. (May be two seperate story lines). * "We changed timezones?!" * Donna: "I wouldn't stop for red lights" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dheW1JWJ8Ko * I think there's a moment where Cj is confiding to Toby about something, and Toby says something to the effect of "you are a beautiful woman" * Butterball hotline of course. * The beginning of the Galileo 5 bit. * Toby arranging for the funeral of the dead veteran. I think that was when I really fell in love with the series. * In a similar vein, when Charlie arranges for the old black guy to come on a tour of the white house, and at the end the old black guy asks for a photo with him. Sure there's plenty more, looking forward to rediscovering them. Hobo Erotica fucked around with this message at Apr 22, 2012 around 11:34 |
| # ? Apr 22, 2012 11:20 |
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Most of the physical comedy bits, set to questionable soundtrack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1eIPID9noM http://youtu.be/e1eIPID9noM 
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 12:19 |
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Hobo Erotica posted:* "We changed timezones?!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...1NHzQ1sgc#t=53s I remember watching this episode back when it was broadcast. There were fits of laughter. Immediately after it was done, my old man and I rewound the VHS tape and watched this scene until we ran out of energy to laugh. (I was the nerdy high school kid who watched TWW while everyone was obsessed with Survivor or Lost.)
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 14:05 |
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HORATIO HORNBLOWER posted:Here's my thing. (Besides all the other problems with this plotline that have already been mentioned.) There's a plotline early on--season one or two, I can't recall--where some information is deliberately withheld from CJ so she has plausible deniability in front of the press. CJ is ticked and I think it's resolved not to do that anymore because she's a valued member of the team and hugs for everyone, etc. But when we're talking about a super secret military space vehicle--what reason would CJ have to have access for that information? And for that matter, what reason would Toby? She's the press secretary; he's in charge of communications. Unless they were planning on announcing that the vehicle existed--which, clearly, they weren't--then there isn't any plausible reason why either or both of those people would have access to that information. I'm not exactly an expert on information security, but that seems obvious, right? Actually they withhold the information from her because Toby says she's seen as being too close to the press. She gets pissed off because it looks like she's lied to them. Yes Toby being the leak is bullshit, and Richard Schiff is smart enough to play it differently than the writers intended him to but the show has always been inconsistent with its own characters, to varying degrees. I'm rewatching the show again and it's frustrating how Sorkin will pick up and drop plots when he needs them. To be fair to Sorkin though he has admitted that plotting was never his strong point. I still hate his treatment of Hoynes though, he constantly got the short shrift. Gary Cole didn't exactly fair much better either (Though I know that's not a Sorkin issue). Interestingly enough Sorkin admitted he was due to leave the show after 100 episodes, which would've placed it at roughly mid-Season 5. He had an idea of where he wanted the characters to go but I don't think he had anything concrete planned for them. It sucks he had to leave when he did, but at the same time he basically hosed himself so my pity only runs so far. And I hate the Josh Vs the Message Board episode, if only because the rest of the episode is pretty great and that subplot just drags it down.
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 14:24 |
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Hobo Erotica posted:Most of the physical comedy bits, set to questionable soundtrack: Wow I literally watched this scene not 2 hours ago, and ALMOST took a screencapture of this same scene.
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 14:27 |
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One of my favorite scenes doesn't involve one of the White House staff. But it's so quiet, so powerful, and just strikes this perfect chord of someone (Vinick) not being afraid or nervous about the challenge in front of them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHlur3F3lpk
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 15:14 |
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Just had a thought after re-watching the episode, 'He shall from time to time'. I wonder if the letter that President Bartlett had to leave for President Santos which was only a couple of lines was about the bathroom door in the residence second floor, where you have to jiggle the handle. That would've been an amazing call back.
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 15:38 |
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I would have loved a throwaway scene after the Santos inauguration where they all move in for work and Josh is doing the big block of cheese day speech. One of my all time favorite  scenes is when Charlie gets the knife from Bartlett. That and Charlie's taxes. "Milo, Coop, help Charlie find his pockets." or something to that effect.
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 21:49 |
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tiberion02 posted:Wow I literally watched this scene not 2 hours ago, and ALMOST took a screencapture of this same scene. I pretty much did an HD screencap and changed my FB Cover Pic to this.
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| # ? Apr 22, 2012 23:39 |
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JerkyBunion posted:One of my all time favorite The way the two Secret Service guys walk over and stand ominously over his desk is hilarious.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 11:47 |
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Hobohemian posted:I know this is from a few pages back, but I found that Yo Yo Ma scene on youtube. Apparently Spanish speakers were as much of a fan of it as I was. Yeah, this is probably the best thing for me in the show. Also a fan of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2VmfTtFtuM
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 14:32 |
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spamman posted:Yeah, this is probably the best thing for me in the show. That Yo Yo Ma scene is so powerful, been a while since I saw it. Jesus. As for 'take your legislative agenda and stick it up your rear end'.. the applause for Bartlet's speech is perfectly timed!
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 15:21 |
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James R posted:For some reason I keep coming back to re-watching this series and was talking about it to my flatmate earlier who's also a fan and we did our favourite episodes, quotes etc and then I opted for the new category of 'chills down the spine' and the two best examples I had were 1.) The moment Ron Butterfield finds that Pres Bartlett has been shot in the limo and shout's 'GW, move move' and this massive presidential limo does a complete 180 at high speed, and 2.) the image of Leo McGarry running through the West Wing when they discover Zoey has been kidnapped and you see him at the residence out of breath and Pres Bartlett looks at him and knows something big is wrong. "I don't like Mondays" True fans know the episode & season.
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 15:39 |
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Every time I watch this show, I find myself coming back to "17 People" before I watch the whole thing because I admire that episode so much. It's a bottle episode, but Sorkin turned it into something fantastic. The monologue Toby gives is... amazing. He has a beautiful way of taking a constitutional issue and turning it into drama. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2RSK7oZnko&hd=1 Starts at 1:43 if you want to skip ahead. I hated the shuttle leak story. HATED it. Toby never would have done it and frankly I didn't find the military shuttle particularly interesting or realistic. Toby was my favvy. Somebody fucked around with this message at Apr 23, 2012 around 15:49 |
| # ? Apr 23, 2012 15:42 |
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Now I've moved onto amusing clips such as the episode where Abbey tells Charlie to tell the President (who is in a meeting re: plutonium) that his stats are good enough for them to have sex for the first time in months, and it's amazing tv. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsG-Fio43U8 Off the top of my head there's also Sam and Josh lighting a fire in the West Wing that was welded shut! Edit: My second favourite Abbey and Jed moment is when she changes his alarm call and the banter between them is amazing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7xabYpMU1A James R fucked around with this message at Apr 23, 2012 around 15:53 |
| # ? Apr 23, 2012 15:48 |
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James R posted:Edit: My second favourite Abbey and Jed moment is when she changes his alarm call and the banter between them is amazing! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7xabYpMU1A That's a good clip, but it demonstrates a weird directing style that started in...maybe the 3rd, maybe the 4th season, where some episodes were shot in a way that seems to hide the main action in any way possible. This clip is another example. Watch when Josh answers the door, and you just see Amy through a reflection, and Josh not at all. As the clip continues, you get lots of shots of the backs of people's head, and the camera having the television as the main focus of the shot, or Josh in the background through a door...I don't know, it's hard to explain, but these two scenes are examples of what was, to me, a very strange shooting style that started around 3rd or 4th season, but only for some episodes. Amy I crazy, or is anyone seeing what I am?
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| # ? Apr 23, 2012 17:24 |
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Rums posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2RSK7oZnko&hd=1 Or it shouldn't and there's no problem. But then in any situation where the President is put under emergency general anaesthetic, which has happened in the real world, the Vice President's authority is murky at best. This situation would happen whether Bartlett had MS or not. Toby's saying "you had an attack that time, but a time previously when you were shot (and your MS wasn't the issue) there was no signed letter". He's talking about two different situations and no I longer see what his point is there. If someone asked why the letter was in a file someplace, the answer is "in case something happens to the President". It's not a problem. That letter probably exists in the real world for just such an emergency, it's not an admission of life-threatening illness and voter fraud. I've never had a problem with this scene before and I've seen it half a dozen times, someone explain to me what mistake I've made with this logic. [edit] I understand what he's saying about betting Leo was in charge rather than Hoynes, an why he's outraged at that, but the letter argument itself doesn't make sense. Hoops fucked around with this message at Apr 24, 2012 around 01:10 |
| # ? Apr 24, 2012 01:07 |
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Rums posted:and frankly I didn't find the military shuttle particularly interesting or realistic. You may be interested to know there was originally going to be a military shuttle. The USAF was going to get two of the shuttles for their own use and launch them at Vandenberg, but they decided not to at the last minute. Discovery was even delivered to Vandenberg but not launched before Challenger derailed the whole thing. This is why the shuttle was different than originally planned (larger, more complicated), the military had all kinds of requirements for their use. And now they have their own little robotic shuttle.
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| # ? Apr 24, 2012 01:13 |
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Hoops posted:[edit] I understand what he's saying about betting Leo was in charge rather than Hoynes, an why he's outraged at that, but the letter argument itself doesn't make sense. Toby's issue is with the reason that the signed letter doesn't exist: namely, that Bartlett's fear of having his secret discovered kept him taking a perfectly reasonable precaution that would have protected democracy in all of the confusion. He sees it as Bartlett prioritizing his privacy over the good of the country, which for someone like Toby is a major sin.
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| # ? Apr 24, 2012 11:00 |
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Grand Fromage posted:You may be interested to know there was originally going to be a military shuttle. The USAF was going to get two of the shuttles for their own use and launch them at Vandenberg, but they decided not to at the last minute. Discovery was even delivered to Vandenberg but not launched before Challenger derailed the whole thing. This is why the shuttle was different than originally planned (larger, more complicated), the military had all kinds of requirements for their use. And the secret ones you don't really know about.
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| # ? Apr 24, 2012 14:55 |
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Hoops posted:Looking at this now, I feel like I'm missing something. Bartlett is right about the letter. Either it should be pre-signed and ready, in case an emergency happens (like the President getting shot for example) and the VP has to assume power, in which case no-one would ever question it's existence. The reason why it doesn't exist and wouldn't is more directly because the minute he signs that letter to put it into an envelope in some drawer somewhere is the minute he's no longer the President. It's a letter removing him from office. If he signs it on the first day in office to hide it somewhere he's no longer the President! Remember Leo/Margaret's brilliant conversation re: checks, and balances of power, and Margaret.. vetoing things and sending them back to the hill. Once a document like that is signed, it's official. Imagine some junior staffer found it; and of course it would have to be dated.. turns out that the last 50 presidential orders have to be overturned as he wasn't the President!
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| # ? Apr 24, 2012 16:41 |
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The only problem with your post is that it's entirely wrong.quote:Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President. The signed letter doesn't do anything to transfer authority until such a time as it's sent to the Senate and House. You lock the letter in the Chief of Staff's desk drawer or something, and he decides when to send it.
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| # ? Apr 24, 2012 16:55 |
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Chajusong posted:The only problem with your post is that it's entirely wrong. Unless you can get a doctor to assert that he suffered from an episode of MS and never actually recovered his faculties... oh wait Reagan- nevermind.
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| # ? Apr 24, 2012 18:15 |
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Reading about Martin Sheen and learned two things. One, that he considered John Spencer his best friend. Also, that he can only put his jacket on by flipping it over his head (like Bartlet in "The West Wing" (1999)). His left arm was crushed by forceps when he was born and he has limited lateral movement.
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| # ? Apr 24, 2012 23:13 |
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TheBigBad posted:And the secret ones you don't really know about. Probably, though it is hard to hide things in orbit.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 00:12 |
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I finished rewatching season 3 tonight. drat you, Sorkin, for killing off Donovan in the most awful way possible. Although Bartlet makes it up with "in the future, if you're wondering, 'Crime. Boy, I don't know' is when I decided to kick your rear end."  I know I've said it several times recently, but the general production elements on the show, especially in the Sorkin era, is absolutely brilliant. I mean, the use of England Arise is perfect, for one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTVtcZc8MGc Wasn't an alternate opening to "Posse Comitatus" made where Bartlet cuts himself shaving while humming England Arises instead of the press briefing? I remember seeing it once but I can't find it on YouTube.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 03:17 |
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Started the rewatch, oh God it's Glorious. I'd actually forgotten about Mandy, but drat you guys are right. So out of place. The over the top 'park the car on the curb and start screaming at someone' thing, the constant nagging, it's clearly a charecter experiment gone wrong. At first I thought she was just annoying, but now I'm episode 9, the short list. In talking about nominating Mendoza, she says she's upset because "He's ruled in favour of same sex marriages." gently caress. That. Bitch. I mean, I know she's coming at it from a PR standpoint, but this sort of poo poo is exactly what's holding back American (and global) politics. Not doing the right thing because you're worried how it will play in the press. Anyone who lists ruling in favour of gay marriage as a bad thing has no place anywhere. Also in the last episode she was going in guns blazing for drug testing everyone in the white house. You're elected as government, do the right loving thing. For once, for gently caress's sake. Seems like you guys have it worst than most with the whole congress schemozzle thing. What's the point of even having a government if they can't pass the laws they want? Why is everything such a poo poo fight?
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 11:26 |
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"Flamingo is on the way" "Wait, what did he call me?"
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 12:01 |
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And Sam is so happy that his callsign is Princeton
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 12:19 |
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Hobo Erotica posted:Started the rewatch, oh God it's Glorious. She was hired as a media consultant and knew that Mendoza's pro-gay marriage rulings would make it harder to sell him to the public. She said it herself--he'd make a great justice, but he's a lousy candidate. Also, this was before they realized Harrison was a closeted strict constructionist. 
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 12:44 |
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TinTower posted:I know I've said it several times recently, but the general production elements on the show, especially in the Sorkin era, is absolutely brilliant. I mean, the use of England Arise is perfect, for one. Whenever I see this, I take it as affirmation that I am right to hate musical theatre.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 13:00 |
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I have to stop coming to this thread during work. Seriously, I clicked on one youtube link, got all nostalgic and have spent the last hour and half watching clips. Now I will be going home and starting a re-watch from the beginning. Thanks guys!
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 19:48 |
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| # ? May 26, 2013 01:31 |
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Tooter posted:I have to stop coming to this thread during work. Seriously, I clicked on one youtube link, got all nostalgic and have spent the last hour and half watching clips. Now I will be going home and starting a re-watch from the beginning. Thanks guys! Ditto. I just bought a new TV, might as well break it in with a West Wing marathon.
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| # ? Apr 25, 2012 20:47 |
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