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Stuporstar
May 5, 2008

One day, cock of the walk. Next, a feather duster.


This comic is amazing. Then the last two panels blew me away, leaving me looking for a word beyond amazing. Thank you for sharing this. Get published.

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ExplodingSquidx2
Oct 20, 2010

That's a DAMN fine cup of coffee.

You're going to have a lot of goons buy this.

Quantify!
Apr 2, 2009

by Fistgrrl


Oh, a comic? I have opinions on those.

klaivu posted:


Despite the fact that we know what she's doing, it still looks like she's looking at herself in the bottom panels and comes across as "wrong". Your typical comic would have motion lines or a semi-transparent head moving the opposite direction to illustrate this, but I don't think that would work with your style. Perhaps if you pulled back and showed more of the bed in the frame, you could lessen the "wrongness" of this.

klaivu posted:


The problem with this page is your eye is lead from top left to bottom right, and then the thick rope leads your eye straight up to the top right. The rope is too strong of an element and it ruins the balance of the page. I'd make it smaller.

The rest of the work is golden. Not only is your work pleasing to the eye, you have a great sense of storytelling. The narrative could not be any clearer.

I think plenty of publishers would be interested in this. You certainly have plenty of quality pages to start making submissions. I would definitely do it now instead of waiting until you're finished. The sooner you get a yes from somebody the sooner someone can find your story on the shelf.

concerned mom
Apr 22, 2003


Holy poo poo, those last panels. Awesome work.

typ0ninja
Jan 9, 2005



Quantify! posted:


The problem with this page is your eye is lead from top left to bottom right, and then the thick rope leads your eye straight up to the top right. The rope is too strong of an element and it ruins the balance of the page. I'd make it smaller.


I understand what you mean but I somewhat disagree, there is a theme of the rope with the bells attached being this frustrating and oppressive plot device for the bird kid. I find it to be a fantastic and subtle way of putting the reader in the bird kids shoes/feelings. It needs some presence like that to keep that ominous feel with the scraggly hairs and stuff coming off of it. I almost think of the rope as its own character.

Its almost as if the bird is interacting with the bells more than his mom who he is talking to.
For the mom as well, this is her life line.

I hope this makes sense.


TLDR: it does stick out a bit, but I think that's the point.

Scooter_McCabe
May 31, 2011
This space lovingly dedicated to Sean Leonard, 19, Andrew Monroe, 19, sister Jessica Leonard, 14, and her friend Kelly Janis, 15.

Anima eius et animae omnium fidelium defunctorum per Dei misericordiam requiescant in pace.


I like the potential this story has because there are a lot of directions this could take and so far no hints as to what might actually happen. I never had any drawing talent but I am curious as how you managed to get this much detail down. Are you using a program or something, how are you getting this professional level of art done?

tifosibella
Aug 17, 2005

captian r u gay


^^^^^^

klaivu posted:

These are all photoshop, with some of the rooms "modeled" (box and sphere primitives here and there) in 3d first, to keep track of where everything is and to help with the wonkier perspectives.



I also agree that the rope in the panel Quantify! pointed out works as its own ominous presence. I personally like it; it's a big part of the story so far, and I don't (personally) find it distracting. I am, however, not a visual artist, so this might not actually mean anything. vv

Otach
Jan 6, 2007
YTMND / SA goer

Quantify! posted:

Oh, a comic? I have opinions on those.
Despite the fact that we know what she's doing, it still looks like she's looking at herself in the bottom panels and comes across as "wrong". Your typical comic would have motion lines or a semi-transparent head moving the opposite direction to illustrate this, but I don't think that would work with your style. Perhaps if you pulled back and showed more of the bed in the frame, you could lessen the "wrongness" of this.
The problem with this page is your eye is lead from top left to bottom right, and then the thick rope leads your eye straight up to the top right. The rope is too strong of an element and it ruins the balance of the page. I'd make it smaller.

The rest of the work is golden. Not only is your work pleasing to the eye, you have a great sense of storytelling. The narrative could not be any clearer.

I think plenty of publishers would be interested in this. You certainly have plenty of quality pages to start making submissions. I would definitely do it now instead of waiting until you're finished. The sooner you get a yes from somebody the sooner someone can find your story on the shelf.

I disagree and found both of these panels to be fine..

but I don't know. if you see something wrong, then, by all means that is appropriate criticism..


I really like the direction and way things are going.. although I am curious what medium you are using.. just for the sake of knowing..


it's great! I love it!

Otach fucked around with this message at Jul 20, 2011 around 04:23

The March Hare
Oct 15, 2006

Je rêve d'un
Wayne's World 3


Yeah, the effect in that first crit doesn't really look mirrored because the hands remain in the same position and the rope is partly balanced out by, you know, the other massive rope and by the fact that the brightest bit of the image is the door where the lil birdie is coming into the scene.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Wheeeeeee!

I don't have any expertise to base any criticisms on, but as a casual viewer, I think your art is amazingly good and I can't wait to see where this goes.

fireWARKs
Nov 24, 2007

every artist dips his brush into his soul, and paints his own nature into his pictures


This is really wonderful - thank you for sharing, and best of luck to you

klaivu
Aug 29, 2006

"... Mother?"

Thanks for the positive commentary, guys. Loving it. New pages:







Quantify, you're right about the eye contact between the two panels. Sloppy, sloppy klaivu. The other page had imo a somewhat sloppy compositioning on second look - too much local contrast (details, differences in textures etc.) in the wrong places.

Do you think the issues are fixed in these versions? These are small adjustments, but I think breaking eye contact and adjusting the composition by reworking the details should be enough:




Godsavethefritos, sure, drop me PM. I'm in europe, though, and don't know how open to submissions from abroad they are.

On that matter, do you guys have any suggestions on publishers open to that idea? On a quick google I think I saw some guidelines specifically saying they don't want submissions from outside the states.

klaivu fucked around with this message at Aug 12, 2011 around 08:55

paisleyfox
Feb 23, 2009

My dog thinks he's a pretty lady.


I actually agreed with Quantify that the mother looking around looked a little awkward, as though she was looking at herself. The changes you just made I think flow a lot better, the desperation comes across better and it looks less to me like she was just staring.

I'm really looking forward to more!

Autism Monday
Mar 18, 2005

anime comes to life and kisses me on the lips

I just can't get enough of that style.

Sophia
Apr 16, 2003

The heart wants what the heart wants.


This is really, really excellent. I don't even particularly enjoy comics but I adore this one.

Anukahn
Jul 21, 2006

My brain hurts

It looks amazing, you totally should try (and succeed!) sending it to Dargaud, Glènat, Humanoides Associés or any French publisher really

ExplodingSquid
Aug 11, 2008



paisleyfox posted:

I actually agreed with Quantify that the mother looking around looked a little awkward, as though she was looking at herself. The changes you just made I think flow a lot better, the desperation comes across better and it looks less to me like she was just staring.

I'm really looking forward to more!

Switching it around gets rid of the looking at herself thing you're saying.

paisleyfox
Feb 23, 2009

My dog thinks he's a pretty lady.


ExplodingSquid posted:

Switching it around gets rid of the looking at herself thing you're saying.



It does, but then it doesn't make as much sense since the panel you placed as first now is her looking at the rope to ring. So it raises the question why would she look up at the rope, then away from it if she wants to ring it? The other way pulls across that she woke up in a panic, checked her surroundings, then rung the rope. The way he fixed her gaze and head tilt fixed the confusion for me.

b0nes
Sep 11, 2001


Excellent artistic skills, it almost reminds me of a wood carving.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Holy poo poo this is amazing. I saw the thread title and thought it would be some crappy webcomic bird doodle crap and then went


Please never stop.


e: Just so my post isn't mindless drivel, how the hell do you manage to do those eyes? The little bird's eyes have perfect expressions.

TONY DANZAS HO
Aug 27, 2003

Making you do a carepostin 2.1 isn't as uncool as making to an analysis in the middle of a flamewar that boosting my ego.


it is because he/she is a good artist.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

TONY DANZAS HO posted:

it is because he/she is a good artist.

Ahhhh I see.

No, really i mean i was wondering if klaivu looks at source pictures with the expressions (like with the spider) or if it just comes naturally.

razz
Dec 26, 2005

Queen of Maceration


I love this!! The expressions on the characters are great.

cubicle gangster
Jun 26, 2005

magda, make the tea


Doctor Zero posted:

i was wondering if klaivu looks at source pictures with the expressions (like with the spider)

I think all artists do this. Good reference is always essential.


klaivu. I'm really enjoying this. I think it's amazing

Quantify!
Apr 2, 2009

by Fistgrrl


klaivu posted:

Quantify, you're right about the eye contact between the two panels. Sloppy, sloppy klaivu. The other page had imo a somewhat sloppy compositioning on second look - too much local contrast (details, differences in textures etc.) in the wrong places.

Do you think the issues are fixed in these versions?
Yeah it looks great now, cheers.

Doctor Zero posted:

No, really i mean i was wondering if klaivu looks at source pictures with the expressions (like with the spider) or if it just comes naturally.
Cartoonists pretty much depend on expressions to tell a story so they get good at them.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Okay, thanks. Sorry if it's a dumb question, I know nothing about drawing.

klaivu
Aug 29, 2006

"... Mother?"

Doctor Zero, it's not exactly a dumb question, but the answer kinda is: it's just a matter of practice. I don't use references for facial expressions, I find they work better when I draw them from scratch. Sometimes, when the expression being drawn is very extreme or unusual, I contort my own face to match, and try to understand what muscles are pulling my face where, and where the skin folds.

One thing I was wondering about - english is not my first language, so I worry about the dialogue feeling unnatural or unidiomatic to a native speaker. Literary goons, any thoughts on this?





klaivu fucked around with this message at Jul 27, 2011 around 13:36

Watchlar
Jun 25, 2009

this will never end 'cause I want more


I love how you established such a strong stylistic visual vocabulary here that I instantly figured out what's up in the latest page.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Dialogue I know about!

It's not unnatural, but it does feel a little fairy-tale with the lack of contractions, which perfectly suits the piece, I think.

For example when the jaybird says "What is there behind the windows?" it's not how a modern English speaker would phrase it. He'd likely say "What's behind the windows?" Again, it makes the dialogue feel a little anachronistic so I think it's okay.

When the jaybird replies "Of course I love my Mother" it's a little strange since most native speakers would reply "Of course I love you, Mother." However, in this case saying "I love my Mother" also puts distance between the jaybird and his mother. Since he doesn't use a pronoun, it makes it sound more formal and strained and emphasizes the conflict brewing in the jaybird. This is also a good thing.

There is a small mistake, though. When the mother says "It was me who boarded the windows..." it probably should be "It was I who boarded..." Take off the first words and see how it sounds. You wouldn't say "Me boarded up the windows..." Further, throwing "It was..." in the front of that line isn't totally natural and it sounds vaguely movie villain-ish. But in this case, I think it works, again, because the language sounds vaguely stilted and old.

Quantify!
Apr 2, 2009

by Fistgrrl


A lack of contractions in a piece like this suggests they're not actually speaking English. It's a common enough device used to imply foreignness. I just assumed the effect was intentional, to be honest.

Do you want your characters to sound like native English speakers? I think the somewhat stilted language of the piece makes it feel more alien to an American reader, but that's a good thing. Your intimate expressions and sets draw the reader in, but the dialogue distances us from the characters and helps create an uncomfortable feeling that mirrors the close-yet-distant relationship between the boy and his mother. These characters are familiar to us, but they come from a very different time and place. I wouldn't change the dialogue. Whoever accepts it for publication will surely help you clean up the grammatical errors.

R. Mute
Jul 27, 2011



Just chiming in to say how amazing this looks. I wasn't expecting much and quickly skimmed the first few frames, but goddamn. That's incredible. And looking back at those frames, I just keep finding more and more details that I didn't see on my first glance.

raging bullwinkle
Jun 15, 2011


It looks like sometimes you're sometimes using three periods where there should be an ellipsis. For example, in this first panel you have "..." and then you have "…", when they should both just be "…".



(The art is amazing by the way. I'm not sure if I said that already.)

klaivu
Aug 29, 2006

"... Mother?"

Doctor Zero posted:

There is a small mistake, though. When the mother says "It was me who boarded the windows..." it probably should be "It was I who boarded..." Take off the first words and see how it sounds. You wouldn't say "Me boarded up the windows..." Further, throwing "It was..." in the front of that line isn't totally natural and it sounds vaguely movie villain-ish. But in this case, I think it works, again, because the language sounds vaguely stilted and old.

It could just be "I boarded up the windows when you were very small". Thanks for spotting that.

Also, the leading of periods in ellipses needs to be fixed, thanks for that too.

I think what you and Quantify! felt the language reads like is in more or less the direction I was going for. Dialogue without any relaxed informality and in theme with the old-timey (or victorian) setting and the values implied by it. Though I really want to avoid expressions that try too hard to emphasize that.

VV: I edited my post to show the edited image. Quantify!'s post shows the original, I think.

klaivu fucked around with this message at Jul 29, 2011 around 19:46

art of spoonbending
Jun 18, 2005



Love your drawings! Regarding the tiny criticism from Quantify! for the picture they quoted

"The problem with this page is your eye is lead from top left to bottom right, and then the thick rope leads your eye straight up to the top right. The rope is too strong of an element and it ruins the balance of the page. I'd make it smaller."

Would respectfully disagree, unless I'm looking at an edited version... my eye is also drawn to start at top left, but then to door (with our hero below), to direction of door, leading to bird in bed and her speech bubble, and from her to the rope, I really love the perspectives in these panels as well as the line work and colouring. It heartens me that you used a modelling program to get the funny perspectives right as I work with 3d programs a little for other purposes and always think how handy they would be for this exact same thing... I'm glad you're not pulling the perspectives out of your head or I'd feel like a lesser human... they're spot on. I've done views like that in the dark ages and they just look a bit wrong so I love seeing them done right.

"The rest of the work is golden. Not only is your work pleasing to the eye, you have a great sense of storytelling. The narrative could not be any clearer."

x2

art of spoonbending fucked around with this message at Jul 29, 2011 around 18:59

Dr. Strangler
Jul 21, 2009

I 'snapped' and killed a bird and its baby purely because their chirping annoyed me. I got a buzz out of killing them both with one shot.

In other words, I have the mind of a serial killer.

klaivu posted:





This page gave me a mad case of goosebumps. Keep up the good work!

Quantify!
Apr 2, 2009

by Fistgrrl


art of spoonbending posted:

Would respectfully disagree, unless I'm looking at an edited version...
Yes, he put the new versions in his original posts. If you want to compare it to the original images I quoted them in my critique post. Subtle changes but yeah they're a lot better now.

dirtysammiches
Jun 14, 2010



klaivu posted:



The only thing I really had a problem with was the last panel for this particular page. I don't think his expression is appropriate. His eyebrows are maybe too high, he looks less like he's deciding whether to ask something and more like he's just spotted a particularly large spider on the floor. It may also help if he's looking off to the left a bit more.

Other than that, the comic is fantastic. I love the black-&-white/sepia flashbacks, the coloring style in those pages is phenomenal. Also making his mom's room red off the grayish green of the rest of the house is sorta genius. Switching between all the different colors make it really fun to look at, and I like the pacing and lack of dialogue. Really interested in where the story goes.

Jax Nadine
Jun 12, 2011

by T. Finn


klaivu posted:







wood thrush loving owns.

SVU Fan
Mar 5, 2008

I'm gay for Christopher Meloni


Man, this is really fantastic. I almost don't want to look at the panels one by one so that I can just get the full experience from start to finish when it's all done. Oh the dilemma . Anyway, the colors are amazing and you really got somethin going here!

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klaivu
Aug 29, 2006

"... Mother?"

Jax Nadine posted:

wood thrush loving owns.

Eurasian jay, actually. Can you call those jaybirds?

I took a few days off and fell behind on schedule. Going to up the pace for this month, expect to see more frequent updates.







Dirtysammiches, thanks for your thoughts, I'll see what I can do about that panel.

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