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SIG 550 > PSG-1
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| # ? Aug 24, 2011 05:51 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 18:13 |
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mikerock posted:There are 550s in the States? He worked for the government and was stationed in an embassy overseas. I don't know all the details, but I know he brought it back before I was born ('84). He worked at the federal building with my dad in downtown Dallas after he switched departments (he got to keep his G-rating though). I don't know all the specifics, but it is pretty cool.
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| # ? Aug 24, 2011 05:55 |
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In my opinion the fact you can't get true blue swiss rifles because of the stupid ban is the biggest insult. SO you have to rebuild FALs or AKs or whatever, not a problem. But the 550s are just something else and the cobbled together rifles of mixed chinese american and swiss parts are just so sad.
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| # ? Aug 24, 2011 05:58 |
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mikerock posted:SIG 550 > PSG-1 Still not worth $NFA. Which is why the 551A1 makes me so goddamned happy. Speaking of which, I've got a copy of the 2011 Swiss Arms catalog as shitter reading material. Any interest in a mini-let's read of it? I'd only be doing a couple pages a day since it's in German and all, but there's some fun poo poo in there. Like, you know, a gun that's basically a SIG 550 but chambered in 7.62 NATO (forget the model number - it's Sig's new hotness for 2011). Also: hilarious Swiss fake Matrix people, including the whitest Morphius you've ever seen.
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| # ? Aug 24, 2011 06:01 |
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We're supposed to be getting those 7.62 rifles soon. 
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| # ? Aug 24, 2011 06:03 |
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One of my buddies back at VT had a preban 550 we shot every once in a while. Very nice rifle, would love to have one if they weren't so amazingly expensive.
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| # ? Aug 24, 2011 06:22 |
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If you try , you can find a SG550-2 for a mere $7 to $8k here. Now, a true 551-2? Those do bring rediculous amounts because very very few are here. There are a few P90s incountry as well but they too bring insane amounts. You say your dad's friend bought a 550 before 1984? It brings up a question i have long had; when did SIG start offering civilian legal rifles? The Swiss military didn't really get rifles until 1987-1988 with some trials rifles from 1982 through 1986. There was the older 540 and 543, which was a proto 550.
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| # ? Aug 24, 2011 07:53 |
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mikerock posted:We're supposed to be getting those 7.62 rifles soon. Hahaha got a price tag for them yet? They're loving 5 grand local plus here.
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| # ? Aug 24, 2011 07:57 |
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mikerock posted:GP90 is also 63 gr, so commerical 62 gr loads would be best. Do you reload, and have you found a good load for your swiss arms rifle? You have one now, right? I played with some 69gr SMK handloads and some 55gr commercial ammo; there's no such thing as 63gr unless it's soft-point game loads so...
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| # ? Aug 24, 2011 22:59 |
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I don't reload. I get cheap GP90 through the club I shoot at.
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| # ? Aug 24, 2011 23:20 |
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Mishaco posted:If you try , you can find a SG550-2 for a mere $7 to $8k here. Now, a true 551-2? Those do bring rediculous amounts because very very few are here. There are a few P90s incountry as well but they too bring insane amounts. I assume he bought it. He may have obtained it by other means. I don't know enough about the situation and what he actually did for a living, and I've never really asked. I see him and his wife maybe 1-2 times a year. I wish I had more info. I also assume it is a 550 because of every other 550 I've seen pictures of.
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| # ? Aug 25, 2011 01:47 |
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mikerock posted:I don't reload. I get cheap GP90 through the club I shoot at. How much?
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| # ? Aug 25, 2011 16:15 |
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Cyrano4747 posted:Still not worth $NFA. Yes please.
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| # ? Aug 26, 2011 01:46 |
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Chrieger posted:How much? .50/round, which is cheap for North America
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| # ? Aug 26, 2011 02:16 |
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You have to be loving making GBS threads me. At current rates that's like .02 CHF more than I pay at my range for GP90. I suppose you guys benefit from the swiss taxpayer, too then. We pay .40 local/round, which is only possible by subsidizing the sport with taxpayer money. Now Ruag released a '63 gr .223' cartridge which my mates and I suspect to be rebranded GP 90 which runs at least .80 CHF/round.
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| # ? Aug 26, 2011 18:43 |
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My range is actually partially subsidized but the Swiss Government.
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| # ? Aug 26, 2011 18:57 |
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MikeRock, you have a present coming in the mail....should be there shortly. How does a 550 with a 1 in 10 twist rate handle standard 5.56mm? Is yours a 550-1 or 550-2? Whats the going rate for a NIB 550 in Canada and how common are they, any kind of wait list or can they be to you in a week or two? Just curious how things are up there. cheers,
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| # ? Aug 26, 2011 22:47 |
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Mine is a 550-1, I think the shorter barreled versions like the Classic Green Carbine or the CQB use a 1 in 7 twist. I haven't shot 55gr through my rifle. My co worker didn't notice much difference out of the Blue Star. I like packages! Edit: NIB Black Special will run you $3500-3700 Canadian. Mine was used and with the aftermarket adjustable bipod, factory 5 round magazine, and 3 aftermarket 30 round (pinned to 5 ) magazine came to $3000.
mikerock fucked around with this message at Aug 26, 2011 around 23:43 |
| # ? Aug 26, 2011 22:59 |
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mikerock posted:My range is actually partially subsidized but the Swiss Government. So how's that federal ammunition order thing working out for you guys?
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| # ? Aug 30, 2011 16:52 |
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When I shot mine for the first time I had some 69gr handloads (min load) and some 55gr Winchester White Box and American Eagle. I couldn't hit the 200m gong with my 69gr with the irons as set, but could with the 55gr. Couldn't tell where the shots were going with the 69gr, due to lack of a reactive backstop (i.e. dirt) and no spotter, so  (Well, there IS dirt but the gong is inside a shipping container set into a giant berm and there's no real seeing where the bullet hits if it's not on the gong.) I'm anxious to try out some GP90 someday, or at least 62gr. I reload and apparently 62gr in a non-softpoint hunting bullet and 63gr are unobtainium. 
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| # ? Aug 30, 2011 18:09 |
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Chrieger posted:So how's that federal ammunition order thing working out for you guys? The who what now? We are running low on GP90 because it is near the end of the year. That's about all I know.
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| # ? Aug 30, 2011 18:16 |
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mikerock posted:The who what now? It's a standing order regarding ammunition in the swiss army. Since the federally backed 300m/25m ranges are supplied with army ammunition, that order applies to them aswell. Among other things, it states that ammunition may not be removed from the premises, be it a short distance range on an army trainingground or a 300m range.
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| # ? Aug 30, 2011 18:23 |
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I don't think it applies to us, or if it does it is not enforced.
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| # ? Aug 30, 2011 18:28 |
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I have some new pictures to share of my 551A1. Excuse me if they aren't right; trying a new program and well...not like i can see the results. Anyhow here: <img src="http://i.imgur.com/Q5OYx.jpg" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/rPQJm.jpg" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/JD6rl.jpg" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/MbEds.jpg" /> Sites are original Swiss from CGS. The rear was easy to install; just needed to file down the rear post some. The front originally just didn't want to go into the dovetail so i filed a bit of bevelling into the edge on each side and it slid right in with a minimal hammering session. The windage wheel/knob reinstalled easier than it did on the MFI flip sight on my P556; mainly the rollpin dropped right in and gave me zero trouble. I guess thats the benefit of all swiss parts. Now as you can see my sights are a lot lower and the rear drum will not rotate without a pretty good wack or twist. It is very secure. Also pictured is my Swiss P57 bayonet and a German mag pouch i use for storing my 20 rounders. The pouch is originally for FAL (G1) or G3 mags but it really does hold the Swiss P90 mags perfectly. They fit inside with no movement up and down and at the same time the pouch is easy to close and buckle. Plus you know, if you can't have Swiss, at least German is close.
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| # ? Sep 7, 2011 21:12 |
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your program is trying to insert html code instead of image tags
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| # ? Sep 7, 2011 21:32 |
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I don't even know what that means...sorry....can you see the pictures or not?
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| # ? Sep 7, 2011 21:47 |
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Mishaco posted:I don't even know what that means...sorry....can you see the pictures or not? Nope.
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| # ? Sep 7, 2011 21:49 |
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Double posting because I don't know how your reader deals with edits and the like and I figured you deserve a bit more in-depth description. THe forums, like most forums out there, uses BB code tags to indicate when an image shows up and to link to it. If I wanted to post hotchick.jpg that was hosted at some online hosting service the BB code would be this, only without the spaces that I'm throwing in to make it not actually, you know, try to display an image. [ img ] http://www.cyranoshosting.com/hotchick.jpg [/ img ] Your program is spitting out actual HTML code, like what you would use to display the image on a webpage you were building. The short version is that forums code isn't webpage code. this is what we have now: <img src="http://i.imgur.com/Q5OYx.jpg" /> if you edit that to [ img ] http://i.imgur.com/Q5OYx.jpg [/ img ] (without the spaces) it should display correctly. Like so: 
Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at Sep 7, 2011 around 21:56 |
| # ? Sep 7, 2011 21:54 |
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how about this? selected a different file tag option:     trial and error really sucks when you can not observe the results!
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| # ? Sep 7, 2011 22:02 |
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Mishaco posted:how about this? selected a different file tag option: That worked
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| # ? Sep 7, 2011 22:04 |
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Much better. TAAABS!
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| # ? Sep 7, 2011 22:16 |
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I wish MFI would hurry the gently caress up with their sights already. The CGS guys want A$$surprise sex for the Swiss sights. 
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| # ? Sep 7, 2011 22:19 |
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Mishaco posted:sights Finally.
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| # ? Sep 7, 2011 22:31 |
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Fat Ogre posted:I wish MFI would hurry the gently caress up with their sights already. The CGS guys want A$$surprise sex for the Swiss sights. Keep wishing but it isnt going to happen. When Mike at MFI got the castings in for the rail+sight base unit he discovered that many had airpockets in the metal; several in critical areas. The project is on indefinite hold now.
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| # ? Sep 7, 2011 22:35 |
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 arrise, thread, arrise from your shallow grave! As some of you may have gathered from some none-so-subtle hints in a few other threads, I've recently picked up a SIG 551A1 courtesy of Mishaco. As good as his review was, I figured I would revive this thread and add my two cents, as well as my impressions after shooting a few hundred rounds through it. As someone who's also shot real-deal Swiss Arms rifles in Switzerland, and who in the past has been less than thrilled with the 556 beyond even the cosmetic poo poo (the trigger in particular - more on that in a bit), I figured I would be in a pretty good position to give some feedback on the gun for anyone else interested in getting one. Normally I'd have a few pictures, but Misha already put in good pictures of the gun itself, which mine isn't really any different from, and I forgot my camera when I went out to the range. Anyways without further ado: Misha's already talked about all the various ways that the 551A1 is different from a real-deal 551. I'm just going to briefly comment on a few of the big points there, but more or less everything he said is spot on. I'll also say that there isn't anything flat out BAD about this rifle. The Mediocre Front handguards - Frankly they are kind of chinzy. They certainly look better than most of the other front handguards that SIG has attached to this line of rifle, and they're functional enough, but as Misha has already said they rattle around a bit due to the lack of an internal heat-shield like the actual swiss ones have. After taking the gun to the range I can also say that I now understand why the swiss guards have those heat shields: even after doing only two mags of semi-rapid fire (maybe a shot every 1-3 seconds) I was noticing them heat up a bit. Nothing uncomfortable, mind you, but they were certainly warm to the touch. If I had been wearing gloves I probably wouldn't have even noticed, but it was a bit disconcerting to say the least. Do you straight up HAVE to replace the handguards? No, but I will. That said, they're good enough that I have absolutely no problem sticking with the current ones for a few months while I lay aside some cash to get new ones. The finish - this is one of those things where it's kind of a downside, kind of an upside, and at the end of the day just is what it is. First off, the color is pretty much right and the texture feels right as well. I have no goddamned clue if it's exactly what the Swiss use, but it certainly looks and feels close enough. On the other hand, it likes to chip around the ejection port. This isn't a minor little thing, either, the brass getting kicked back really gouges the gently caress out of it, to the point where I'm down to bare metal in a couple of spots after about 150 rounds - this isn't just the brass smear that you get on the shell deflector of an AR. That said, that's just kind of a "SIG thing." Every 55x series rifle does that, although I don't know whether that rate of wear is normal on the swiss guns. Me? I noticed it around the 150 round mark on my gun and, since I'm a pretty princess who worries about my fashion accessories, I went ahead and put a quarter-inch wide strip of duct tape over the problem area. Problem solved, no more finish wear. Really, it's just kind of an issue with SIG rifles in general that's pretty well-known. Am I thrilled about it? No, but I knew it was a thing going into this. The sights - this could be a whole "good vs bad" writeup in and of itself. On one hand, I'm happy that SIG actually included a swiss-style rotating drum rear sight on this model. That said, if they didn't they would get pilloried online by the 55x enthusiasts who have been clamoring for exactly this model for so long. I'll be honest, these rear sights REALLY don't impress me. The adjustments feel a bit mushy and the drum itself rotates WAY too easily. Sitting on a bench at the range it's not going to move by itself, but there's no way I would use it for something like 3 gun, much less anything more serious than that. Just having it brush against my jacket at the range and random bags and crap at the house I've had it half-rotate to another aperture. It really does feel like something I'd expect to find on an airsoft rifle, and I can't loving believe that SIG charges about $120 for them. On the other hand, they are basically functional as sights and they managed to work well enough for me at the range that I was spinning a rubber gopher pretty much non stop with them. The really unforgivable thing, in my book at least, is the fact that when they designed this drum they managed to make it significantly higher than the original Swiss drum. This necessitated a higher front sight post, and Misha has already gone over the differences between the actual 550/1 front sight and the 551A1's front sight, so I won't get into that here. The real pain in the rear end, though, has to do with the fact that they got the folding stock right - the Swiss sights sit noticeably lower, which means that with these higher sights you aren't getting the nice, tight cheek weld that you really want to have, and instead have kind of a "jaw weld." It's not terrible, and you can certainly shoot with it and do so well, but it's really sub-optimal. You can get a cheek riser for the folding stock that I'm pretty sure would put it at the perfect height for the sights that shipped, but that's $250 in the US. At the end of the day the sights are good enough for loving around at the range, but they're way up there on my "to replace" list. The good Accuracy - well, this would be the one area that Misha can't really comment on, and the area that seems to be the most controversial with the US-made 55x rifles. Put simply, my impression is that it's about as accurate as a quality M4 clone. Shooting off a sandbag on a bench with a 4x Millet scope in a LaRue mount and using 55gn Federal Bulk I was getting 50 yard 5 shot groups groups that were averaging about an inch. Using the same iron sights that I just got done bitching about above I was having absolutely zero problem putting shot after shot into a Duraseal spinning gopher target at the same range. Note that this is roughly the same accuracy that I get out of my WOA AR target upper. I'm not saying this to emphasize the accuracy of the SIG - I fully believe that the WOA upper is probably mechanically more accurate than the SIG - but to point out that an inch at 50 (or about 2 at 100 in my experience) is probably getting towards the upper limits of my own abilities with a rifle. I'm a good shot, but not a great one, and I damned near know the WOA out shoots me. Given that I'm shooting about the same with the SIG I could easily be the limiting factor there as well. Regardless, if you are really curious as to how accurate these guns are there are American Rifleman reviews out there (plus a few others I think) where they report 5 shot groups with various types of ammo. All in all, I'm happy with the accuracy. I honestly don't know if it would shoot like a Swiss Arms 551 if you put them both in vices and fed them similar quality ammo, but it certainly shoots comparably to nicer ARs that I've been able to get trigger time with. The Stock - remember how much everyone loving hated the stock on the 556 and wondered what the christ SIG was smoking? Remember how excited everyone was about the 556 classic, then pissed right after at the flimsy stock and the weak lockup? Yeah. The stock on the 551A1 is the stock on the 551. It locks up solid as a rock, has a nice LOP, and all in all is pretty loving awesome. If you never got what all the 55x fanboys were bitching about with the 556 and the 556C stocks, you won't care about this. If you were one of the guys doing the bitching, you should be pretty loving ecstatic about this. Trigger - here is one of the hugely controversial bits that people really piss on SIG about. First off, just let me say that actual Swiss Arms 55x triggers are really nice, something that they have a well deserved reputation for. The first stage takes up nice and evenly and then the second stage breaks really crisply. Back when the 556 came out I was all in all unimpressed with the trigger. It was good when compared to, say, your average stock AR trigger, but when it was being marketed as a US version of a gun with such a famously good trigger it really came up short. The 551A1's trigger, out of the box, left me a little disappointed. It was nice, and certainly nicer than the 556's trigger, but it just felt too stiff and a bit mushy in the second stage. Then I realized the fucker was adjustable. A few minutes of monkeying around and taking the grip off and dicking with a set screw and I had a good, positive first stage that stopped right before a short and very crisp second stage. At this point I really see no need to replace this with swiss made trigger internals. Next time I go out to Switzerland I'm going to have to get some SERIOUS trigger time on this gun right before I go out and then hit a range to get some trigger time on a 550/1 so I can definitively say whether or not the swiss triggers are nicer. Right now I'm leaning towards them being a little nicer, but really I don't know if I might also be remembering them a bit nicer than they were - it's been almost six months now since I last shot one. The bottom line Out of the box it's a really good gun. If you've been wanting a gun that's available in the US and is basically a clone of the 550/1 family, you will be happy with it. Myself, I'm really goddamned happy I bought it, and I am equally happy with how well it shoots. The cheap feeling rear sight is disappointing, and the seeming mis-match between the height of the stock comb and the sight plane is annoying as hell, but everything I'm seeing and reading points to this being something that is fixable with actual Swiss sights. With a few replacement parts it has to potential to be a really excellent gun. I'm really glad I got it, and I'm really happy with mine. I've spent pretty much the last two days either shooting it, cleaning it, or just messing around with it. My wife says she hasn't seen me smile this much in months. It isn't perfect, but it sure as hell was worth what i put into getting it.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2011 04:57 |
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Holy Zombie Thread Batman! Cyrano, glad to hear you are all-in-all content with the 551-A1. I know it was a bit of a pill for you to get it and i'd feel pretty loving bad if in the end you were disappointed. So my comments, to your comments, about my original comments... First off, thank you for the accuracy report. Fell and I keep trying to do an accuracy test but things keep getting in the way. We had a few boxes of decent ammo but the first time the range trip was kind of party crashed by some mag dumper friends of my friend that I didn't know. So we hid the good stuff. The second time, at the last minute, Fell's wife and our camera person ended up going shopping. So we had no one to film Fell firing the thing at actual targets. 1.5 to 2.0 MOA seems to be what i am hearing for the 551A1. The handguards---yeah, its not the the Swiss HGs have a heatshield in them. The heatshield is actually a tile type coating inside the Swiss gasblock. That side, the Swiss HGs are made out of a more flexible and lighter polymer than the USA ones. I have also noticed that even after 200+ rds of rapid firing they do not noticably heat up--even on a warm SEptember afternoon. I put a bit of electrical tape on the end of mine and the rattle is virtually gone. This tape hasn't come off after 500+ rds so i guess its a pretty decent solution for not much money. Hey you put duct-tape on yorus! haha. As for the chipping behind the ejection port. Yep, its a SIG thing...those guys who bought those police trade in 552-2s from Midway earlier in the year reported nearly perfect finishes, except behind the port. Some guns seem to do it worse than others but there is really no telling why or which ones. Also, i think ammo type plays a role maybe? Sights, not only is it complicated enough with the Swiss guns having lower sights than the USA ones, actually there are two different heights on the Swiss ones too. You have the original SG550/STGW90 height sights which are welded directly onto the receiver. These sights are lowest of all. Then you have the newer sights meant for railed guns like with the 551 and 552. These are diopters that clamp onto a top rail. Because of this, they are taller than the originals but still shorter than the USA SIG ones. Oh yeah, you know those flip backup sights everyone hated that they put on the 2nd generation USA SIGs? You know the ones with the front flip blade that is real fat and the 'nail file' type flip blade in the back that is still found on the 556 C and 551A1? Well those sights are actual Swiss pattern and found on the newer 551s and 552s. The difference is that they really were only intended for 'back up only' use and the nail file is adjustable! haha. I feel you on the cheap metal diopters that SIG USA includes. They are better than nothing for sure, but not worth what SIG seems to think them worth. Now you see why i popped for real Swiss diopters for $550....really high price but now my gun really fits the look. Speaking of my Swiss sights, they are grey and yes the grey really closely matches the 551-A1. So if its not the exact same finish, its damned close. Stock, well the stock is just awesome..'nough said. Trigger, you did the exact same thing i did. I had 3 551-A1s in at the same time and was trying to pick the one i wanted to keep. One of them had the best fit except its trigger was kind of the worst. I didn't know what to do until i discovered it was adjustable and how easily it was to do so. Now, the trigger is pretty great at least on mine. While we are talking about the 551-A1...the news around it isn't good though. CDNN has cancelled all future purchases of them from SIG. There are a couple of causes. First, the 551-A1 was to be a CDNN exclusive. At first it was and it was kind of a contractual thing, but after initial sales were good, SIG started selling out the back door to other dealers. Even worse they were giving guys only buying 2 dozen 551-A1s the same unit prices as they were selling to CDNN, who had purchased 2,000 units. Second, the Swiss 550/551 stock was to be only on the 551-A1, but SIG USA now is putting it on all of their 556 Classic lineup. This totally undermines the 551-A1. Third, though the first 551-A1s exhibited above average fit and finish, by batches #3 and #4, CDNN started noticing that SIG was making mistakes. Some rifles instead of having the intended 551-A1 flash hider were shipping from SIG with a standard AR15 M16A1 6 slot hider. this pissed the owner of CDNN off a lot more than it did me. I was the first one to get one of these rifles and to report it to them. Also, rifles started coming in with poor receiver fit and/or non matching finishes. CDNN refused to take a few hundred 551-A1s due to unacceptable quality and shipped them back to SIG. Its kind of cool they actually check over every rifle that comes in from SIG. Its not cool how SIG basically stabbed them in the back.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2011 06:53 |
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Mishaco posted:There are a couple of causes. This behavior from SIG USA does not surprise me at all, they're bloody tossers. Also, Cyrano, did you get 20 or 30 rounders? If you got 30 rounders, what manufacturing marks do they have on them?
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| # ? Nov 13, 2011 10:50 |
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Mishaco posted:
There is one cause. Ron "loving rear end in a top hat" Cohen. The level of seething rage this man inspires in Sigsauer Germany and Swissarm is unbelievable.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2011 13:48 |
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Cyrano4747 posted:A few minutes of monkeying around and taking the grip off and dicking with a set screw and I had a good, positive first stage that stopped right before a short and very crisp second stage. I think you need to flesh this part out some more. 
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| # ? Nov 13, 2011 15:15 |
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| # ? May 22, 2013 18:13 |
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Ungh. I love these. If I ever get any money extra to speak of, I WILL buy a 556 and dress it up with 551A junk.
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| # ? Nov 13, 2011 15:46 |
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