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Luceo
Apr 29, 2003

As predicted in the Bible. :cheers:



Does textual save chatlogs, preferably in nice HTML format? I use pidgin for this right now, and keep the logs for an RPG I play.

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Pivo
Aug 20, 2004


Yes of course it will log. Is there an IRC client that doesn't?

I am not sure if it does it pretty in HTML... Not at my Mac right now.

Lawen
Aug 7, 2000

Just checked and looks like it'll only log to .txt file and it's either all on or all off, no way to only log on specific channels/queries/networks. But it's just a bunch of text files, so you can log everything and it won't use much disk space.

Roobsa
May 1, 2011

I'd been using Textual up until I discovered IRCCloud. Using someone's earlier suggestion of Fluid, it basically acts as a standalone client. The whole service works flawlessly so far and seems like there are some nice features in the works.

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004


Lawen posted:

Just checked and looks like it'll only log to .txt file and it's either all on or all off, no way to only log on specific channels/queries/networks.

Are you sure? Go into server properties for one of your networks, in the list on the left. I'm pretty sure I saw a logging enable/disable there. Same way that you can set a default NickServ pass, but you can override it per-network.

But, again, not at my Mac. I could be misremembering.

Whirlwind Jones
Apr 13, 2013

by Lowtax
New Yosimeters beta includes iTunes 12.

Looks mostly visual from what I've played with so far, but you can bet your rear end people are gonna freak the gently caress out about it and complain endlessly.

kode54
Nov 26, 2007

aka kuroshi
Fun Shoe
I was also using IRCCloud, but figured I'd try some other things as well. Now I'm trying out WeeChat, using the Glowing Bear frontend. Of course, for best result, you will have to use a nightly version of WeeChat to actually make the websocket connection and not crash it if you, say, close a buffer.

Pivo
Aug 20, 2004


Now that I'm back at my Mac, turns out you can't do per-network or per-channel logging. But oh well, no biggie, log everything.

Eight Is Legend
Jan 2, 2008

Roobsa posted:

Used this as well. Did you get another 6 months of premium? Cheers for posting the link.

I sure did, thanks man (and thanks everyone else who used it, I got premium until January 2018 now, haha) :)

benisntfunny
Dec 2, 2004
I'm Perfect.

Whirlwind Jones posted:

New Yosimeters beta includes iTunes 12.

Looks mostly visual from what I've played with so far, but you can bet your rear end people are gonna freak the gently caress out about it and complain endlessly.

I quite like that they did away with the side bar but managed to not hide all the functionality of it. So yes. There will be blood.

I'm super pumped to read the iTunes thread in a couple months.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Does any of that mean that I can finally migrate my itunes library to a new drive (or, gasp!, computer) without having to rebuild it from scratch and re-authenticate every item and every device?
Does it mean that it will no longer quietly reset itself if the drive doesn't respond instantly (or even, gasp again!, ask for user input before deleting itself)?

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 10 years!)

Neither of those things have ever been issues for me, so maybe?

Whirlwind Jones
Apr 13, 2013

by Lowtax
Look at this doofus who doesn't know how to properly migrate an iTunes library.

Choadmaster
Oct 7, 2004

I don't care how snug they fit, you're nuts!
Hey, moving a folder from one place to another isn't the easiest thing in the world.

benisntfunny
Dec 2, 2004
I'm Perfect.

Tippis posted:

Does any of that mean that I can finally migrate my itunes library to a new drive (or, gasp!, computer) without having to rebuild it from scratch and re-authenticate every item and every device?
Does it mean that it will no longer quietly reset itself if the drive doesn't respond instantly (or even, gasp again!, ask for user input before deleting itself)?

Seeing as how migrating a library and not reauthenticating has been possible for awhile (forever maybe?) I'm going to say the answer to your first question is no. Because it appears you just don't understand how to do it.

Whirlwind Jones
Apr 13, 2013

by Lowtax

Choadmaster posted:

Hey, moving a folder from one place to another isn't the easiest thing in the world.
You also gotta search for the really ambiguously named file "iTunes Library.itl" too. They really should have made it more obvious which file you're supposed to copy to migrate your iTunes library to a different location.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

benisntfunny posted:

I quite like that they did away with the side bar but managed to not hide all the functionality of it. So yes. There will be blood.

I'm super pumped to read the iTunes thread in a couple months.

Does nobody at Apple use playlists??? :negative:

benisntfunny
Dec 2, 2004
I'm Perfect.

~Coxy posted:

Does nobody at Apple use playlists??? :negative:

Side bar is there if you're looking at the playlist option

GokieKS
Dec 15, 2012

Mostly Harmless.
IRCCloud is a neat concept, but when I tried it a couple months ago, it was completely unsuited for use by someone who hangs out in a channel indefinitely - performance degradation was absolutely massive after a couple hours to be the point of being unusable.

Textual is definitely the best OS X client, especially once they finally added DCC support for the people who need that kind of thing. That said, I really dislike the single-window paradigm, so for my home workstation where I idle in a bunch of channels at once, I still stick with mIRC in a W7 VM (that I also need for some other things like a proper version of MS Office).

kefkafloyd
Jun 8, 2006

What really knocked me out
Was her cheap sunglasses
I've been using Linkinus for years but development on it appears to have died. How is Textual in comparison to that?

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

kefkafloyd posted:

I've been using Linkinus for years but development on it appears to have died. How is Textual in comparison to that?
Fairly active. In 2014 I'd say they've averaged a bug fixes/minor feature release every month, and they're being extremely aggressive with a major update to pair with Yosemite.

crazysim
May 23, 2004
I AM SOOOOO GAY
Textual is also open source. Development takes place on GitHub so it's much more alive than Colloquy.

kode54
Nov 26, 2007

aka kuroshi
Fun Shoe

GokieKS posted:

IRCCloud is a neat concept, but when I tried it a couple months ago, it was completely unsuited for use by someone who hangs out in a channel indefinitely - performance degradation was absolutely massive after a couple hours to be the point of being unusable.

Textual is definitely the best OS X client, especially once they finally added DCC support for the people who need that kind of thing. That said, I really dislike the single-window paradigm, so for my home workstation where I idle in a bunch of channels at once, I still stick with mIRC in a W7 VM (that I also need for some other things like a proper version of MS Office).

Hence another reason why I switched to Glowing Bear, after experimenting with and loading my server down with all sorts of node.js crap to try out clients like IRCAnywhere and Waartaa.

Glowing Bear is a 100% client side HTML5 interface to WeeChat's native relay protocol, although it seems to be bugged with Safari. Possibly needs special configuration in Apache or nginx or whatever to downgrade deflate compressed connections to uncompressed.

And unlike IRCCloud, it seems to retain minimal backlog only for the currently visible conversation view, and leaves unread message and highlight tracking to WeeChat, which is already a lightweight native client.

Unfortunately, there are other bugs with the whole setup, and the best recommendation is to use the latest nightly/development version of WeeChat. 0.4.3 has two limitations, one of which I have already managed to patch away easily. It uses strcmp instead of strcasecmp to check that the Upgrade field of the websocket request is "websocket", which breaks with many setups that like to capitalize it "WebSocket". The other is that closing certain query windows, or possibly all windows at all, will cause WeeChat itself to crash. Opposite end, Glowing Bear seems to remember non-existent windows when you reconnect using the same instance of the page, and clicking dead windows also causes 0.4.3 to crash.

On the flip side, you can also set it up to host an irc protocol relay, including one which will present all channels and servers as a single IRC connection. And it can handle all of your channel logging server side. And there's also plenty of scripts available, and writing them is pretty easy too.

To give you an idea of how the console version works, you can brew install weechat, and even set up the relay and Glowing Bear to connect to that instance, without the relay traffic ever leaving your network.

kode54 fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jul 22, 2014

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Choadmaster posted:

Hey, moving a folder from one place to another isn't the easiest thing in the world.

…especially when it doesn't actually work and just causes itunes to say “so, I see you have no library — let me wipe it out for you so you can add everything back in again” (never mind the contradiction in wiping something out that it apparently can't find). And when I say “say”, I mean “just do it without telling the user”. In fact, a lot of it is just down to iTunes not asking the user anything and just happily nuking itself if it can't find its library.

Lawen
Aug 7, 2000

Tippis posted:

…especially when it doesn't actually work and just causes itunes to say “so, I see you have no library — let me wipe it out for you so you can add everything back in again” (never mind the contradiction in wiping something out that it apparently can't find). And when I say “say”, I mean “just do it without telling the user”. In fact, a lot of it is just down to iTunes not asking the user anything and just happily nuking itself if it can't find its library.

It's been a while since I moved my iTunes library to my NAS but I don't remember having any of those problems. IIRC all you should have to do is go into iTunes prefs, change your "Library Location" to point to the new volume and directory, then run the Organize (or Consolidate maybe?) My Library command and wait for it to complete.

In fact, iTunes is bad about coping with an unmounted NFS volume causing it to fall back to the default Library location if my NAS isn't mounted when iTunes starts. It'll start fragmenting my library, putting new stuff on local disk while everything else stays in its original location on the NAS. Running through the above steps works fine to get everything back on the NAS.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Lawen posted:

It's been a while since I moved my iTunes library to my NAS but I don't remember having any of those problems. IIRC all you should have to do is go into iTunes prefs, change your "Library Location" to point to the new volume and directory, then run the Organize (or Consolidate maybe?) My Library command and wait for it to complete.

In fact, iTunes is bad about coping with an unmounted NFS volume causing it to fall back to the default Library location if my NAS isn't mounted when iTunes starts. It'll start fragmenting my library, putting new stuff on local disk while everything else stays in its original location on the NAS. Running through the above steps works fine to get everything back on the NAS.

It's some variation of the latter problem I always suffer from, with the added bonus that I can't just point to the correct location because then it somehow gets the idea that it should start adding what's in there to the library, and now everything is duplicated. And of course, those dupes are different entries so they won't sync with any connected devices and getting rid of them runs the risk of killing an entry that is actually the old “correct” one, at which point the whole re-authentication problem pops up.

Now, granted, it's been ages since I tried it too, so maybe later versions have stopped being quite so stupid, but the whole “yes, let's reset this key setting without any prompting or input” behaviour just infuriates me. I understand that Apple prefer to hide as much of the innards as possible from the user, but sometimes, that kind of automated responses just needlessly breaks things.

:negative:

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Lawen posted:

It's been a while since I moved my iTunes library to my NAS but I don't remember having any of those problems. IIRC all you should have to do is go into iTunes prefs, change your "Library Location" to point to the new volume and directory, then run the Organize (or Consolidate maybe?) My Library command and wait for it to complete.

Yeah, I've had my iTunes library on external volumes for years now. There may have been some issues at some points, but that was a long time ago.

Tippis posted:

…especially when it doesn't actually work and just causes itunes to say “so, I see you have no library — let me wipe it out for you so you can add everything back in again” (never mind the contradiction in wiping something out that it apparently can't find). And when I say “say”, I mean “just do it without telling the user”. In fact, a lot of it is just down to iTunes not asking the user anything and just happily nuking itself if it can't find its library.

Are you using iTunes 5 on Tiger or something? Seriously: The reliability of iTunes in retaining and not messing up its library has risen a lot over the years for me. It's really worth it to update everything if you haven't already done so.

Additionally, I'd recommend making backups.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Tippis posted:

Imaybe later versions have stopped being quite so stupid

No guarantees, but again, reliability has improved a lot for me.

wolffenstein
Aug 2, 2002
 
Pork Pro
Apple's directions for moving iTunes libraries: Windows Mac

IUG
Jul 14, 2007


benisntfunny posted:

I quite like that they did away with the side bar but managed to not hide all the functionality of it. So yes. There will be blood.

I'm super pumped to read the iTunes thread in a couple months.

I'm super pumped to be part of the problem. But then again I was one of the people that disliked 11, and then got over it after I got used to it. It's me, I'm the iTunes sperg.

kefkafloyd
Jun 8, 2006

What really knocked me out
Was her cheap sunglasses

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Fairly active. In 2014 I'd say they've averaged a bug fixes/minor feature release every month, and they're being extremely aggressive with a major update to pair with Yosemite.

This is good to hear. I actually paid money for Linkinus back in the day because I hated colloquy and all the other clients were garbage. It's always been kind of a resource hog but I couldn't quite find something to replace it. I'll give Textual a try.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

flavor posted:

Yeah, I've had my iTunes library on external volumes for years now. There may have been some issues at some points, but that was a long time ago.
The same issues are around today, most notable the whole settings reset if the volume doesn't respond for whatever reason.

quote:

Are you using iTunes 5 on Tiger or something?
No, latest everything. Otherwise I wouldn't (still) be complaining. Now, granted, it might very well be some very ancient and deprecated setting that has tagged along through the various upgrades, but the number of times I've had to rebuild the library from scratch makes me reticent to want to experiment with new installs.

quote:

Additionally, I'd recommend making backups.
Doesn't do away with the problem that iTunes just can't seem to get its head around that the files already exist (where they've always been) and is very fond of trying to add them back in if/when you tell it where they are.

Choadmaster
Oct 7, 2004

I don't care how snug they fit, you're nuts!
All this complicated advice.

1. Move your iTunes folder (may be called "iTunes" or "iTunes Library") to wherever the gently caress you want it.

2. Launch iTunes. It'll either find the folder still (if you moved it within the same volume) or it'll ask you to point it to the new location.

3. There is no step 3.

If you're moving a library to a new computer, make sure to delete the empty default library and iTunes will automatically ask you where your library is. Or you can always force it to ask by holding option while launching iTunes (you can even happily have and use multiple iTunes libraries this way, should you have some weird need to). This does all assume you're letting iTunes manage your files - it wouldn't make sense to do any of this if your music is strewn all over.

Tonde Mo Nai
Jul 9, 2005
my symbolism was stripped away long ago

Lawen posted:

In fact, iTunes is bad about coping with an unmounted NFS volume causing it to fall back to the default Library location if my NAS isn't mounted when iTunes starts. It'll start fragmenting my library, putting new stuff on local disk while everything else stays in its original location on the NAS. Running through the above steps works fine to get everything back on the NAS.

Mine kept doing this, the solution that I ran into (and that seems to be working well), is to protect the iTunes file on the local disk so that iTunes can't modify it, and then you'll always get a prompt from iTunes to go locate the library and can go redirect it to the NAS library.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Choadmaster posted:

All this complicated advice.

1. Move your iTunes folder (may be called "iTunes" or "iTunes Library") to wherever the gently caress you want it.

2. Launch iTunes. It'll either find the folder still (if you moved it within the same volume) or it'll ask you to point it to the new location.

3. There is no step 3.
Yes there is.

Step 3 is called “you have now created a new library, as opposed to kept your old library, so you now have to re-authenticate all your purchases, re-sync all you devices (from scratch, all content on them will be lost) since they were synced to your old library, and very possibly end up with a bunch of dupes that somehow manage to point to files that already exist in the library, just for good measure”.

I accidentally did exactly what you described the first time, before I read up on how to consolidate libraries, and step 3 is becomes pretty horrific at that point. What you describe might work if the music is actually located in the iTunes folder… but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm guessing that this is also the assumption the Apple eggheads were making, which fed into all the bad assumptions that go into their automated and unprompted “fixes” for any errors that occur.

Tonde Mo Nai posted:

Mine kept doing this, the solution that I ran into (and that seems to be working well), is to protect the iTunes file on the local disk so that iTunes can't modify it, and then you'll always get a prompt from iTunes to go locate the library and can go redirect it to the NAS library.
I've only briefly toyed around with this idea. Is it a stable solution or does it now require you to unprotect the file whenever you want to add or update the library?

Choadmaster
Oct 7, 2004

I don't care how snug they fit, you're nuts!

Tonde Mo Nai posted:

Mine kept doing this, the solution that I ran into (and that seems to be working well), is to protect the iTunes file on the local disk so that iTunes can't modify it, and then you'll always get a prompt from iTunes to go locate the library and can go redirect it to the NAS library.

It's happening because you guys changed the iTunes Media folder location (ie. ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/ -> NAS) which leaves your library folder (~/Music/iTunes/) in its original location. Meaning when iTunes can't find its media folder anymore, it'll happily start a new one in the still-accessible iTunes library. If you actually move the whole library folder (ie. ~/Music/iTunes/ -> NAS) this will not happen.

Choadmaster
Oct 7, 2004

I don't care how snug they fit, you're nuts!

Tippis posted:

Yes there is.

Step 3 is called “you have now created a new library, as opposed to kept your old library, so you now have to re-authenticate all your purchases, re-sync all you devices (from scratch, all content on them will be lost) since they were synced to your old library, and very possibly end up with a bunch of dupes that somehow manage to point to files that already exist in the library, just for good measure”.

No, you are doing it wrong. If you move the entire library folder, it's the exact same library. There is no need to re-authenticate, re-sync, or anything. I've done it dozens of times for people and never had that issue, and nobody following my advice in the iTunes thread has ever had that issue.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Choadmaster posted:

No, you are doing it wrong. If you move the entire library folder, it's the exact same library.
Yeah, that's just it: they're not necessarily the same thing. It's the same assumption that makes the internal automated error correction in iTunes break things. Saying that you're doing it wrong when it's the method the program itself actually provides just highlights how badly thought-out the whole system is.

And while there is the consolidation method for moving the actual library around, it's really brittle and require you to follow the steps in the exact right order or you will end up with a wiped library and/or dupes.

Choadmaster
Oct 7, 2004

I don't care how snug they fit, you're nuts!
I have no idea what you're trying to say.

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Whirlwind Jones
Apr 13, 2013

by Lowtax

Tippis posted:

Yeah, that's just it: they're not necessarily the same thing. It's the same assumption that makes the internal automated error correction in iTunes break things. Saying that you're doing it wrong when it's the method the program itself actually provides just highlights how badly thought-out the whole system is.

And while there is the consolidation method for moving the actual library around, it's really brittle and require you to follow the steps in the exact right order or you will end up with a wiped library and/or dupes.
The reason copying the iTunes Library directory directly over works is because of the iTunes Library.itl file within which contains all the information about how your library is structured.

It sounds like you're just copying the music directory over and adding it to a fresh iTunes install, which is the incorrect way to do things. If done correctly when you boot iTunes your music will already be there. If you're using the "Add to Library..." dropdown menu option at any point in time you're doing it wrong.

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