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mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


Cyne posted:

So when do you guys think Pro Tools and Media Composer are going to be qualified for Lion?

Perhaps more to the point, is Pro Tools 8 ever going to be qualified for Lion or is Avid going to force me to upgrade to 9?

I doubt PT8 will ever work with Lion. I tested PT9 today, and the installer (both 9.0 and 9.0.2) crash the first time through, but works if you run it again. 9.0.2 will open, but complain it won't work on 10.7. Updating to 9.0.3 actually removes the .app, so it certainly won't work until Avid updates it.

Other things I've found out this week (we are in the Dev program) is that Lion Server and Open Directory are problematic. If you add an OD master in either Users and Accounts pref pane, or through Directory Utility, it will not actually bind the machine to the domain. Also, after a couple of hours, the OD server will drop out and block AD authentication from working.

I am getting really worried about deploying Lion this fall, but I don't have much of a choice because we are getting new Macs, and we can't buy them until 9/1.

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mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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Xenomorph posted:

I just read that Mac OS X Server 10.7 doesn't support acting as a Primary Domain Controller, and no longer has NFS GUI management.

We spent a gently caress load on Apple Xserves and used them as PDC and NFS servers.
I've been moving to Dell servers to have a better Windows/PDC experience, but I was wanting to stick with Mac OS X Server for the nice NFS GUI.

What does NFS management look like now? The 10.7 Server Admin Tools are a busted loving mess, so I haven't been able to do poo poo with them. They are seriously pre-beta "quality".

Another fun tidbit about the 10.7 Admin Tools: you can't access a 10.6.x Server. I found that wonderful fact this morning. I setup Lion as a OD Master, but the client lost it after a couple of hours, and that caused the AD authentication to fail. Also, adding the OD master on client puts the server in the list, but does not actually bind it, which is loving retarded. This is just another gently caress you to enterprise/education customers following the death of Xserves and the clusterfuck that is FCP X.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


Xenomorph posted:

Well, thanks to how great 10.7 has turned out, starting today we are testing CentOS 6.0.
Our Xserves are aging, with no migration strategy from Apple, and now it's clear that Mac OS X Server is dead.

Because of how bad SMB/NT Authentication was in 10.5/10.6, we had been trying to migrate users to a Windows Server (Server 2003, again because of SMB authentication issues 10.5/10.6 has with 2008/2008R2). The Windows server handled all our Mac and Linux users fine - but we wanted to continue with Apple's server due to how nicely NFS management was (NFS management is a huge pain on Windows).
I thought 10.7 would be the fix we wanted. All new SMB guts (non-Samba), with the NFS control we had come to rely on. Ha!

So yeah, it looks like our Apple servers are being replaced with Dell PowerEdge systems running Windows Server 2003 R2 and CentOS 6. All that surplus cash we would have spent on Apple will just go to pay for more office parties, I guess.
Our Apple servers are several years old, and leaving them to run "as is" with no upgrade path is not what I want.

We have been using Likewise Enterprise for the last 2 years to bind Macs and Linux boxes to our AD with a lot of success. The only catch is that you need to specify your domain on the login of a mac, eg domain\ad_user. I am using OS X Server for Policy, but likewise supposedly gives you that capability too. However, Likewise 5 killed my Lion test box, and Likewise 6 won't bind to our AD PDC, so who loving knows.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


ndrake posted:

This is on a new macbook air that came with lion. The wifi bug is pretty widely described - basically when you wake the computer it sucks at finding a known connection and you often have to choose it yourself.

My boss and I both have this issue. His screen does not turn on until everything is 'ready', and mine turns on but has to wait 5-10 seconds for the Wi-FI comes on, with both WPA2 and WPA2 Enterprise.

Edit: mine also 'loses' the DNS so anything local still works via IP, but I have to turn airport on and off again or restart to get my DNS back. I also had DNS issues on a brand new 27" iMac with it's special build of Snow Leopard. Installing Lion on it fixed it.

mayodreams fucked around with this message at Aug 12, 2011 around 15:46

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


Small White Dragon posted:

Am I the only one who's shocked that 10.7.1 isn't out yet?

I am not shocked, but I'm certainly surprised that we don't have one yet, or minimally one to squash some of the 2011 MBA issues that have cropped up. I just checked and it was 13 days from GM to 10.6.1, so we are certainly past that window. I think that Star War Sex Parrot is right about the digital distribution allowing closer ship times and its pretty stable now. However, the developer GM was was very early in July, so who really knows.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


serewit posted:

Any good books for administering Lion Server? Having a bitch of a time making it play nice with AD.

What issues are you having? Aside from the admin tools being buggy and sucking, I didn't have much of a problem with AD.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


serewit posted:

Well, mostly the admin tools being sucky and bugging. Also some problems with DNS which I got ironed out, but in ironing out, broke services and required me to reimage.

AD problems are mostly things like not mounting home directories and not inheriting permissions or setting them at all in the first place.

Yeah, I had some DNS issues that were not present in Snow Leopard too. Once I bound a machine to the OD as well as the AD, it couldn't find the OD DC, and then AD authentication failed. It turns out you need to set the server's DNS to 127.0.0.1 in the System Prefs and relay requests to your real DNS server in the DNS service prefs.

ARD has been sucking a huge cock too in that it 'loses' machines and says it is not active if a Lion machine has a user logged in. I am pretty pissed with the lack of enterprise polish on Lion, but that is par for the course this year with Apple pissing on education/enterprise.

I HAVE to deploy Lion client and server this fall in my computer labs. This is how thrilled I am about that:

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


TheState posted:

I'm running Lion on my 2008 Mac Pro, which has an SSD for the OS drive and a separate HDD for the user accounts. I created a new user account for my girlfriend, then copied it to the HDD and changed the path in the User Account pref pane. When she logs in, no apps will launch. They'll open for a second and then close. Any thoughts on how to fix this?

Try repairing the permissions on both drives. This reeks of a permissions issue.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


Xenomorph posted:

Wait, you *have* to deploy Lion Server? Why? 10.7 was the nail in the coffin for us.
I printed up a list of what it is missing compared to 10.5/10.6 and gave it to the higher-ups. 10.6 didn't fix the problems we had with 10.5, and 10.7 removes the File Sharing component we rely on (we mostly use OS X Server for SMB and NFS shares). We can still do SMB & NFS, but the pretty File Sharing interface (the big advantage of Apple's Server compared to Linux or Windows) is now gone with Lion.

I use server for OD policy, and just like with the Leopard to Snow Leopard transition, the newer OS does NOT play nice with the older version of server. This is typical Apple. We are getting 10 new Macs, so I can't have 8 machines in a 21 machine lab running Lion instead of Snow Leopard, and back-revving had a LOT of ill-effects last time, so I'm forging ahead with Lion.

This wouldn't be an issue if Apple a)moved the OS transitions to the fall, and b)actually gave a gently caress about enterprise/education customers and didn't force them to use the BRAND NEW OS on every new machine, even if it didn't update (Mac Pro).

Edit: Sorry, the file sharing is now setup in the Server.app instead of Server Admin app. It is certainly dumbed down too.

mayodreams fucked around with this message at Aug 19, 2011 around 18:48

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


BigBadBrewsta posted:

I have a new mid-2011 Mac mini setup with an OS X installation and a Boot Camp installation. I want to use this as my "master" Mac mini.

I have used DeployStudio to do this in the past. It won't do it per disk, but it will work for the Mac and Windows partitions. I am not sure about the EFI partition, but I have tested my imaging and restoration workflow with Lion and it works great.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


polpotpotpotpotpot posted:

I have a problem with wifi on my 10.7.1 MBA (had the problem starting with 10.7). Whenever the computer wakes up, it will not connect to the last wifi network it was connected to. It will try and fail. It will also pop up a dialog box, unprompted, "which wifi do you want to connect to?" etc. Connecting from that dialog box will also fail.

What does work is:
Open computer
Type in password on login screen
Close wifi prompt box
Hover over Wifi icon in taskbar until networks appear
Select correct network

This is loving annoying. What the hell is going on?

Theory: it has something to do with my screen locking. More out there theory: it has something to do with File Vault (? idfk)

Try turning off Airport and deleting the wireless network in the control panel and the password in the keychain. We have had a long standing issue with WPA2 Enterprise getting corrupted and deleting the network/logins clears it up.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


fleshweasel posted:

I have to migrate back to Snow Leopard because I need to run Pro Tools and I'm already missing the new stuff-- the improved window grouping in Mission Control, the new Mail.. I hope Digidesign takes less than an entire freakin year to update for Lion compatibility.

If you are on ProTools 9, the latest 9.0.5 update that dropped last week adds Lion compatibility in a 'beta' form. I have done some light testing, but everything seems to work so far. However, if you are using an Mbox, you may want to wait because those drivers are really in beta, and caused GarageBand to fail during launch.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


TheState posted:

I have to use a USB mouse to click the account and then I can use my bluetooth mouse after I log in.

You can use the arrow keys and enter to select the account on the login screen. Or, you could switch the login screen to a user name prompt and just tab between the fields. I prefer the latter because its harder for someone to 'hack' into my laptop if they dont even know where to start on username.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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lol internet. posted:

Any suggestions for cloning macs in a company/enterprise environment?

Everywhere place I've been tends to do manual installs each time.

I noticed the mac apple store uses the orange drives, and quickly clones the drives by booting from the external then using disk utility to rewrite the HDs. I wouldn't mind doing a method like this but I wasn't able to find any documentation in regards to this setup.

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

I am going to second wolffenstein's recommendation of DeployStudio. I setup a MBP running OS X Server with DNS, DCHP, Netboot, and AFP and then netboot 7 Macs connected to a private gigabit switch and restore that way. I can push out 110gb images to 7 machines in about 90 minutes.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


wolffenstein posted:

Goddamn, is that including multiple versions of Adobe software?

Final Cut Studio 3, CS 5 Master Collection, Logic 8, and Pro Tools 9. That is for my 21 seat post production lab. Our main edit suites are around 80GB because we don't have Logic or PT on them.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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lol internet. posted:

Thank's. I started looking into this and I'll probably start with doing local deployment with a external hard drive and move from there. Is there any special way you guys deal with licensed application and automation for software?

Also, on the side note. Can someone comment on NTFS-3G? I'm having a hell of a hard time googling about it. It looks like it was bought out by Tuxera?

I came across a slightly outdated NTFS-3G dmg from 2010. Is that the latest version?

I started doing this via external hard drives too, but it did not scale the way I wanted it to. Most of our apps are on a volume license, so I really don't have to worry about that. If you don't use it already, get Apple Remote Desktop. That helps tremendously with doing mass tasks on your machines. I use it to install apps/packages, run unix scripts, and remote admin because i have machines in 5 different buildings.

As for NTFS-3G, I'd stay away from it. OS X will read NTFS natively, but the free options for writing are still terrible I think. What are you needing to write to NTFS drives for?

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


Teenage Fansub posted:

Is there any way to install FCP7 on a machine that already has FCPX?
When trying the install disc FCP is greyed out and skipped.
I've got to finish someone else's project, so if backing up and deleting X will bring the install option back I'd do that for the time I'm working on this.

e: Ahh. Obviously they have the same application title. Moved X to a subfolder. Hopefully they're okay living together like that. 7 is working at least.

Apple explicitly states that 7 and X will coexist happily, so you should be fine.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


For the admins out there, I got some new Mac Pros shipping with Lion in today, and I was able to deploy a Snow Leopard image to them without issue. This makes me tremendously happy as I don't have to deploy Lion in my lab this week, so I thought I'd give you guys a heads up.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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You Am I posted:

The only Apple product at my work we can't get our 10.6 image working on is the new MB Airs. Other Macs will run 10.6 until they get a hardware refresh.

Apple has required the new OS before a hardware refresh in the past. I appreciate the trip report though.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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Olivil posted:

Hey there I think maybe some of you can help me, I just received a PowerMac Performa 6400/180 from 1996, the thing is working wonderfully hardware-wise, HOWEVER (there's always one) it's running a broken install of Mac OS 8.5.1 (boot but it's missing a lot of system files, it seems I can't read HFS+ formatted CDs burned from my Macbook running Lion). I would love to downgrade to 7.6.1, however I can't really transfer files to it as Apple dropped support for HFS Standard in OS X for a few versions... Assuming I have the required files for installation of 7.6, how can I transfer files to the Performa 6400?

I tried booting of a Network Access 7.5 Floppy, but the Performa 6400 can't boot from it. It also seems I can't transfer any files by CD using ISO 9660, as every files comes off corrupted (error type -39)

I have access to:

MacBook Pro running Lion
PC with Windows 7 64bit
PC with Windows 98SE
PC with MS-DOS 6.22

Note that I have a USB floppy drive.

Thanks to people who can help me with my antiquated question.

Here is something to get you started in the right direction. The software is not free, but it may help guide you to somewhere better.

http://www.macdisk.com/hybbooten.php

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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ephori posted:

Anybody here work with Macs in a corporate, Windows environment? I've always used Macs at home and PCs at work, but they just bought me a Mac Pro to play with at the office because they're thinking about buying a bunch more for some of the marketing staff.

They likely won't be buying an OS X server, so what are my options for integrating these things into active directory, and locking them down a bit and whatnot? Googling gives me a ton of options, so I was hoping for some direction on what to look at first. We've got about 1500 PCs and probably won't have more than about 30 Macs, all Pros probably. Domain controllers are server 2003.

Late on this, but I am a Mac admin at a university explicitly doing what you are talking about. I have around 50 'lab' Macs that I manage in a Server 2003 AD environment. You basically have two options: OS X Server or BeyondTrust (Likewise). Technically, we use both, but I know that AD is better in SL and Lion than it was in Leopard, but I have found that Likewise is more reliable long term than Apple's plugin.

BeyondTrust allows you to manage Mac policy from within a complete Windows environment by using a snap in console that you point Apple's Server Tools (namely Workgroup Manager) to as a 'fake' Mac OS X Open Directory Server.

The other option is to just setup a Mac (a mini server is perfect for this) as an OD master and do the policy that way. Both methods still allow for AD authentication, but I have found the OSX Server method to be better for managing policy.

Feel free to PM if you don't want to really go off topic in the thread.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


I started to mess around with Lion server again, and its still a loving dumpster fire. I took my frustation out in photoshop.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


Xenomorph posted:

We have four out of five remaining Apple servers set to be replaced now with Dells running Windows or Linux. The release of 10.7 Lion (and all updates that fixed nothing) finalized the roadmap.
It's not just the server that is terrible, all of the 10.7 server tools (for managing older versions of Mac OS X) are broken.
Trying to get help with Apple Servers is impossible, as hardly anyone bothered running it in the first place, and Apple itself turned its back on it.

I was testing Lion Server in Parallels 7, and putting it on hardware resolved the issues I was having with OD not starting during config. However, Profile Manager sucks, and I can't even get a device to join because my SSL cert from DigiCert is not 'trusted' by apple. Even installing the root cert won't work. Like you said, server tools are broken, and updates (including 10.7.3) do not fix anything. I am looking to using Likewise for policy on my Macs now.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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I ran ML on my current model MBA over the weekend and reverted back to Lion as well. It does seem 'snappier', even as an upgrade to Lion. But, it breaks Dropbox and ARD, so I can't use it on my personal machine. Also, I did a TM backup before I installed it, and it didn't do a full backup, just my home folder, which made restoration really fun.

I immediately thought of this when I saw the ML logo.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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yaoi prophet posted:

Dang I didn't know they had Mountain Lion in 2001.

Thanks for your brilliant insight that added so much to the conversation.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

GO U NORTHWESTERN!


RRail posted:

Just so I have an answer in the case it comes down to it, is there a way to get both Bootcamp and Windows 7 via download that is not illegal?

You can buy and download Windows 7 directly from MS here: http://www.microsoftstore.com/ Also, when you run the Boot Camp Assistant in the /Applications/Utilities folder, it will download the Windows drivers for you and allow you to burn it to a disc to finish the installation.

Manky posted:

Does anyone have a guide handy for creating a bootable usb drive from a Windows 7 iso? Every guide I can find only assumes you already have Windows.

You have to burn a DVD of Windows to install it via BootCamp on all but the newest Macs. I know the current MBA allows you to do it from a flash drive, but I am not sure the list is much bigger than that at the moment.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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japtor posted:

Or was that "Mac OS 8"?

I think the last time I saw one was in OS X with the old platinum widgets, I assumed it was some weird rear end Carbon build using custom stuff to look like the old Mac OS and was never updated.

7.6 was the first OS release in lieu of System, which coincided with the clone market. Stuffit used VISE X for the longest time too, at least until a couple of years ago. I am so glad the scourge that is .sit and .hqx is finally behind us.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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FlashBangBob posted:

Does that tool work on a Mac? I was looking around the web and couldn't find it.

The MS tool doesn't work, but the Boot Camp Assistant for Macs without an optical drive will make one for you and add the drivers too.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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evil_bunnY posted:

A decent card is a good deal faster to install windows from. We have a boot media on photography-grade SD cards for our laptops at work and that poo poo's blazin' yo.

I use a MBP with 2 hard drives and a gigabit switch to image Macs at the office. I can restore a full Snow Leopard build in around 6 minutes boot to boot.

You can also do Boot Camp restores too, which are MAGICAL for the amount of time it saves.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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Xithyl posted:

Bleh.

Having some problems with BootCamp right now.

I have Windows 7 SP1 and Lion installed. I can boot into Windows without issue, see my Lion partition and even manipulate files on the drive. When I try and boot into Lion, the little wheel loading thing just spins forever and it never boots, same with holding down Shift on boot. In addition, when I go into Recovery HD in an attempt to reinstall Lion, I don't see it in the drive list, just my Windows and Recovery HD partition.

What can I do and what might be happening?

Ninja Edit: Also, sometimes I get weird a error about Lion when I boot into Windows, it's the same one all the time about not being blah blah blah properly last time.

Real Edit: As an aside, I know this has been addressed before, is there any chance it's even possible to update a driver or something to make Windows run less hot when using BootCamp?

Have you tried doing a disk repair and permissions fix from disk utility in the recovery boot? It seems to me that something in the HFS partition is out of whack.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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Zenostein posted:

Is there a way to manually add an 802.1X profile in lion? I had one under SL, but it vanished on upgrade. However, it still magically connected anyway until this morning. Now I've found it — lion 'helpfully' migrated it to Ethernet. Of course, even there I can only delete it; no modification or duplication seems possible.

What the hell apple?

Go to Sys Prefs -> Network - > Wi-Fi

Click advanced, and there is an 802.1X tab where you can add, edit, and delete profiles.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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japtor posted:

No clue about the MBA (but I suspect it) while I'm pretty the current minis shipped with Lion. I remember some thread on the MacRumors forums trying to get Snow Leopard on them, they were at least partially successful last I saw but I don't know if that has held up...I guess it might have since it's not like 10.6 has gotten any major updates since then.

I've also heard about the Paragon NTFS driver for Mac loving up Windows partitions

The Mac Mini and MBA's both shipped with Lion last summer. I am (as well as a coworker) still dealing with WiFi issues on the MBA's, although the most recent updates have quelled the issues for the most part.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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Sorry, I see that now on my machine. We had to delete it a lot in SL when users changed their AD password, so I was just on auto pilot. Maybe try deleting the network in the advanced wi-fi config and out of Keychain Access?

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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So I installed FCP7 on ML today and the Mac App Store will not update it. Instead, it tells me that FCP X and Compressor 4 are the only available updates. I guess Apple has made that pretty clear.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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Instant Sunrise posted:

FCP7 is not on the Mac App Store and must be updated via Software Update.

Right. I ended up grabbing the updates from Apple's Download site, and they installed ok. Then I realized that FCP X was magically installed, so I launched it, it updated itself to 10.0.4, and then proceeded to break FCP7. Thanks Apple!

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Don't run beta software in a production environment.

This was on a development Mac Pro I have on my desk for testing new applications before putting them into production. I can restore an image to it in like 10 minutes, so it is no big deal to break something.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Did you file a bug report?

Not yet. I doubt Apple really cares about FCP7 not working though because they've made it clear to us that it is EOL and will not be updated anymore.

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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Although we are switching to either Avid or Adobe for our NLE next fall, we still need to have FCP in production for at least a year to accommodate upperclassmen. Apple is heavy handed with OS upgrades on new machines, so I would rather get a heads up on potential issues of running FCP7 on ML now than in August/Sept when I have zero time to test anything with our small purchasing window (3 weeks from when we can order and start of class) before getting new machines in and updating the rest.

I went back to make sure it wasn't another issue, and isolated it to the AJA Kona LHe drivers I installed to do a special project for a student this afternoon. Uninstalling the drivers allowed FCP7 to launch without an issue.

Edit: I have different installs on separate hard drives to simulate our 3 varied lab environments. I use it to test if an update to Pro Tools, FCP, Adobe, etc breaks poo poo before I update everything between academic sessions.

mayodreams fucked around with this message at May 8, 2012 around 00:05

mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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flavor posted:

Their philosophy may be a little bit extreme to you, which I understand, but I think it's for the better. And hey, there's always Windows.

Their policy may work for consumers and some business, but it is unacceptable for enterprise use. Up until about a year and a half ago, we could still get XP on machines from CDW/Lenovo. Apple boned me last year with Lion and the Mac Mini upgrade because I had to put Lion machines into production with very little testing. They also did NOT play nice with a Snow Leopard Server Open Directory until after a couple of updates. I was able to back rev our new iMacs to SL via my images, but that only works until Apple updates hardware.

While I appreciate Apple wanting to push the envelope, that doesn't mean those of us who actually have to make Macs work love the idea of constantly doing new things that don't always work right at first. A perfect example is how Apple essentially killed Open Directory Server as it had existed for years for the Profile Manager in Lion Server, which requires signed certs that are a nightmare to create and configure. Instead of allowing you keep using the system you had, they completely cut it off and said gently caress you, use this new pile of poo poo that is buggy as hell and not ready for production. Oh, and Lion clients won't work with SL server out of the gate. That is just lovely implementation.

flavor posted:

My point was just that even if everything would be great now, there's no real guarantee that that will be the case on final version of ML.

I know what you are getting at. I know that beta software changes before release. But a LOT of Lion bugs persisted for a couple of releases. I felt that Lion was the buggiest 10.x.0 release aside from maybe 10.0 or 10.1. The Wi-Fi issue on my Mid 2011 MBA didn't really get fixed for about 6 months after it came out. In my personal opinion, Apple needs to focus more on making the Mac more refined than iOS right now because they are slipping.


wolffenstein posted:

The window between ML's release and the start of a new academic year is so short, you're best sticking to Lion for the next academic year anyway. At least Lion will keep getting security updates until the OS after ML is out.

All of my production machines save 2 Mac Mini's in classrooms are still running Snow Leopard, which has only been in service for almost 2 years now. For post-production, we typically do not go bleeding edge on the OS.

mayodreams fucked around with this message at May 8, 2012 around 03:30

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mayodreams
Jul 4, 2003

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flavor posted:

I also don't think it's good for Windows that people will still have to make their software work on XP until 2016 or similar.

They don't have to. There have been a number of high profile games that do not work on XP like Battlefield 3. The world is moving away from XP because Microsoft got their head out of their asses and finally shipped a major version of windows (Vista) 6 years afterwords. Since then, they have put out Windows 7 two years after Vista, and are poised to deliver Windows 8 this year, again 2 years after the last major release. The reason XP is sticking around is that some businesses have custom apps that only run on a 16/32bit OS, use older hardware (parallel/serial), or the like. Microsoft has even addressed the old software problem with the XP mode in Win 7 Pro/Ent. Their MO is not to bend over backwards and support everything back to Win98 as you suggest.

flavor posted:

Apple is pretty much the opposite. I'm also pretty sure they've never really had the goal of being big in the enterprise market.

Every event/keynote for the last couple of years Apple has banged on about how much penetration they are getting in enterprise with iOS devices. Where iOS goes, the Mac will follow it. While Apple has stepped up Exchange and AD support in SL and especially Lion, they bungled Profile Manager which is necessary for group policy.

flavor posted:

The alternative for Apple would be to have to support everything from OS 8 or so upward on 68k, PowerPC and Intel. It's just not their thing.

This is so extreme I think you are just trolling now. They supported PPC Macs for almost 4 years after they stopped selling them.

flavor posted:

Judging from what I've read over the years, there have always been some hardware and software issues like that, so I'm not seeing the big difference.

I know this is PERSONAL EXPERIENCE but I've run every release of the Mac OS since 7.1. With OS X, I even bought public beta and used that until 10.0 came out, and I never looked back at the classic Mac OS. So I can uniquely comment on the progression of Mac OS release from both personal, and for the last 5 years, professional experience. The 'big difference' as you put it is that you don't have a choice once Apple decides to put new hardware out and change the OS. Many professional applications like Avid Media Composer and Pro Tools do not qualify even point releases for months after a release. So if you bought a Mac after an OS switch like last summer, you would be locked out of your applications until your vendor updates the software. And for Apple, this is a very arbitrary decision as obviously the hardware is supported in the older OS, they just don't want it to happen. I'd love for them to put it in a tech note and let professionals like me back rev things without making it clear to the general public you can do that. Like I mentioned before, I had show stopping Wi-FI bug on my personal MBA that probably wouldn't have existed on SL.

flavor posted:

I don't mean this at all in a dismissive way, but judging from your comments and the situation you're describing, I'd just move everything to Windows. What you're looking for just isn't really supported by Apple.

Well, in the real world, there are many other things to consider than just flippant ideas based on pure speculation. I'd love to move everything to Windows, but I've got 50 video and audio workstations, and there is no way we can update those in even 3 budget cycles. Never mind the fact that the faculty are STAUNCHLY against anything to do with Windows, so I have a political problem too. Having a mix of Mac and Windows workstations creates headaches for students using personal hard drives (they are required to) because what file system do you use? FAT32 is right out and so is NTFS. That leaves ExFAT, but that is slow as poo poo, and still doesn't support big enough files, or using Mac Drive or something similar on Windows, but that has it's own instability issues.

I suggest you leave the arm chair sys admin game because it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about at this point.

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