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Zeta Taskforce
Jun 27, 2002


Delta-Wye posted:

I think the only big benefit would be less driving.

With tuyop, this is not negligible.

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tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Yeah living on base costs about 800 a month. As it is now I spend about 450 with the extra gas and rent and all that. The quarters are also hideous polluted death traps from the fifties that should all be condemned.

We get off base allowances in some cities like Halifax, Toronto, Victoria, et cetera. Not a Podunk shithole like Fredericton, though.

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007



Isn't that PDL? I was under the impression they're looking to eliminate the program.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


quaint bucket posted:

Isn't that PDL? I was under the impression they're looking to eliminate the program.

PLD, and they've been vaguely threatening to get rid of it since at least 2007, when I got in.

Wolfy
Jul 13, 2009


Delta-Wye posted:

I think the only big benefit would be less driving.
This is really, really big benefit for tuyop.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Wolfy posted:

This is really, really big benefit for tuyop.

You know, I've been driving for eight years now. Seven of those years I haven't gotten any tickets or trouble with cars. I'm actually a really good driver!

Except for the time I accidentally parked my first car into a lake.

Or the "careless driving" ticket when I wasn't actually driving carelessly.

This year though, there have been tons of troubles! And I just called my insurance company and it turns out that my insurance will cost 2419 dollars AGAIN next year because of that ticket I got when I was 17.

But ANYWAY, I've never been in an accident!

Giant Isopod
Jan 30, 2010

Bathynomus giganteus

tuyop posted:

I just called my insurance company and it turns out that my insurance will cost 2419 dollars AGAIN next year because of that ticket I got when I was 17.


That is a very big number. Is this a canadian thing, do you guys pay a lot for insurance before taking into account tickets and poo poo? Because 2419 sounds astronomical to me.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009
I love cruise ships and they have never ever done anything wrong ever and are 100% correct always because I worked on one once.

Giant Isopod posted:

That is a very big number. Is this a canadian thing, do you guys pay a lot for insurance before taking into account tickets and poo poo? Because 2419 sounds astronomical to me.

When I got quotes to insure my car, a 2002 Chevy that I paid 2000$, I got a quote for something like 1500$ a year. 300$ a year if I took insurance for liabillity only. Of course I qualify as a "new driver", but I'm also 25 so..

Tuyop's got a fancy car and a couple of tickets on his record, I can see it being that high.

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007



Giant Isopod posted:

That is a very big number. Is this a canadian thing, do you guys pay a lot for insurance before taking into account tickets and poo poo? Because 2419 sounds astronomical to me.

Depends. I got a friend in Alberta who's paying ~$12000 a year for his insurance. His insurance skyrocketed as a result of his DUI.

It's dependent on the province/insurance company. In BC they insure the car whereas Alberta insures the person.

tuyop posted:

Except for the time I accidentally parked my first car into a lake.

is there a story behind this? If so, I would like to hear it. I promise not to be a jerk about it.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


quaint bucket posted:

is there a story behind this? If so, I would like to hear it. I promise not to be a jerk about it.

Well why not.

I was sixteen, had just finished with the probation period for new drivers and got a car. A $300 1992 (in November 2004) Mazda Protege. 5 speed. With a spoiler. And an electric sunroof. It was loving awesome.

However, it couldn't be safety inspected in its condition, so I saved and worked extra hours and had it fixed up for... let's say 900 dollars. I don't remember the number now. The first day after the repairs were complete, I was driving a friend home and the car wouldn't start. It was a dark, foggy night. I pushstarted the car and took a wrong turn. There was a streetlamp over a turn and the light turned the fog into a white screen, keeping me from seeing the turn. I kept going and ran off the road at about 30km an hour. Severed some engine mounts, the gas tank fell off, the radiator was ruined, et cetera. Over the next couple of months I saved some more and fixed everything again for about 1200 bucks.

The day after it was repaired, I drove to the gas station where I worked to pick up a smiley face cookie for my girlfriend because she was sick. I pulled the car up and left it running and went in. When I came out with my cookie the car was gone. I looked around and yelled, "Where the gently caress is my car?!" There was a man filling up the underground tanks and he just shook his head and pointed to the nearby pond. Which can be seen here.

The car had rolled backwards, down a hill, around a corner, missing a fuel truck, a telephone poll, and a large boulder, straight into the pond. It looked like it was just sitting on top of mud, so I started to take my shoes and jacket off to go get it. But it was November and the water was like 6 degrees so I probably would have died. And it was much deeper than I thought. Over the course of the next six hours I watched it sink. It was facing me as it went down, and the wipers started when it was about half way down. As if it was trying to save itself.

Divers came and extracted the car, photographers came, there was a large crowd and then I went to work up the hill. I have photos but not on this computer.

That night it went below zero and all the gaskets and everything in the car froze and broke. It was destroyed. Even the hazard lights were broken.

I called the local junk yard and they gave me 150 dollars for the scrap. A few days passed and I got a call while working at the station. A man asked if this was the gas station where a Mazda had gone in Red Bridge Pond. He asked if the car was still in the lot. I looked out and it was. He told me that they had taken his car, which was a Mazda from the Irving down the street. By the time the whole thing was over, the guy had a car with a different door because the junk yard had removed his and I had 150 dollars. But it still managed to ruin someone else's day.

A few months later I bought a 1992 Mazda 323 with no power brakes or steering and the reverse lights were permanently stuck on. I loved that car, but eventually the safety ran out and it would have cost more to fix than the car was worth, so I set it on fire for a movie that a friend was making.

hitachi
May 2, 2003

Hail to the King, baby

Everything about that story is awesome.

Wolfy
Jul 13, 2009


Wow, drat lucky it didn't hit anything before it went into the pond.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Wolfy posted:

Wow, drat lucky it didn't hit anything before it went into the pond.

Those things would have stopped it and I would have had a car still! At least until its next suicide attempt.

Zeta Taskforce
Jun 27, 2002


tuyop posted:

Those things would have stopped it and I would have had a car still! At least until its next suicide attempt.

The fuel truck would have done more to it than just stop it.

The strangest things happen to you though.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Dwarf tits for the blood god!

SPERG FOR THE SPERG GOD


In my old neighborhood, a runaway truck rolled down a street about a block and into the parking lot of the grocery store, where it killed a small child and crippled his mother.

Tuyop can count himself lucky that he did not ruin someone's life. It's a story with a happy ending!

michael30404
Apr 17, 2006


I used to have a 91 mazda 323 and can confirm it is a car worth lighting on fire. I thought about it several times.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


michael30404 posted:

I used to have a 91 mazda 323 and can confirm it is a car worth lighting on fire. I thought about it several times.

I think it has to be 5 speed. I technically owned three and loving loved them. The fire was a economic decision.

Badger Pudding
Jan 11, 2007

My naturally quivering state makes any display of fear deliciously arbitrary.

tuyop posted:

Car story

You forgot about the part where the tow people said the had no "jurisdiction" or whatever to go into the pond and had to get someone certified to don scuba gear to attach the tow to it. Also, the part where your dad almost cried because his son was you! Those were my favorite parts of the story!

PS - I loved those cars, and they were the most fiscally responsible thing you ever did, go back to being good like that.

quaint bucket
Nov 29, 2007



Best car accident story, thank you.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


I need a little help with this short-term budget. I have the following
things to pay for in the next 2-6 weeks:

Insurance: 600
Registration: 99
Safety inspection: 25
BS ticket: 336

So a total going out of 1060 NLT 31 May

From 16-30 April I have two pays coming in

16 April: 1646.03
30 April: 1529.21

I have to pay for:

16-30 April
Cell phone: 80.55
Car pmnt: 375
Visa: 172.50 (not the minimum, I pay 172.50 2x/month)
Student loan: 170
Savings: 272.50 (same thing, 2x/month)
Gas: 110
Food: -50

Balance from mid-apr pay: 575.48

30 April - 15 May

Mess of intermittent fees: 1060

Visa: 172.50
Savings: 272.50
Rent: 165
Power: ~100
Internet: 25
Gas: 110
Food: 96

Balance from end Apr pay: 505.21

If I stick to that, that means that I should have 1163.69, leaving me
with a balance of 103.69.

Now I know I've left out fun money here, but I was hoping to take some
austerity measures becuase of these payments. I've saved a bit for them,
but I'm very reluctant to spend my savings if I can help it.

So I have a couple of questions:

How can I earmark funds so that I don't have this problem again? Like,
what specific things do you guys do to say that, of 100 dollars in this
account, 10 of it is for future clothes purchases, 25 for spices that I
will run out of in 90 days, 35 for an oil change, and 30 for christmas?

Am I missing anything really conspicuous from this little budget?

And yeah, I know I should also try carpooling to bring the gas down, wearing a
sweater to bring the power down, and eating more cheaply to bring the
food down. I just recently noticed that I now weigh 200 pounds so I'm
trying to bring the diet under control, which is expensive because I'm
replacing staples. I figure the extra food costs are mitigated by not
smoking or drinking.

Eden
Jul 1, 2007
One hella classy dinosaur

Nevermind I think I misunderstood you.

Eden fucked around with this message at Apr 13, 2012 around 12:56

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Dwarf tits for the blood god!

SPERG FOR THE SPERG GOD


I don't really understand the question.

tuyop posted:

Balance from mid-apr pay: 575.48

Balance from end Apr pay: 505.21

If I stick to that, that means that I should have 1163.69, leaving me
with a balance of 103.69.

So, according to your budget, you'll be in the black. Right?

quote:

Now I know I've left out fun money here, but I was hoping to take some
austerity measures becuase of these payments. I've saved a bit for them,
but I'm very reluctant to spend my savings if I can help it.

This confuses me. What do you mean by "austerity measures"?

quote:

So I have a couple of questions:

How can I earmark funds so that I don't have this problem again?

What problem? Your money is earmarked by your budget and you have a net-positive budget, so you should not run out of money. Right?

quote:

Like,
what specific things do you guys do to say that, of 100 dollars in this
account, 10 of it is for future clothes purchases, 25 for spices that I
will run out of in 90 days, 35 for an oil change, and 30 for christmas?

Personally, I do three things:
1. I maintain a healthy cash balance month-to-month.
2. I budget based on average months. In other words, I add expenses that are non-monthly (annual expenses such as my annual car insurance payment, an allotment for christmas, etc.) to an overall budget and then divide by 12.
3. I have a significant margin for "etc." that covers a lot of unexpected and unplanned-for items.

Then I just go ahead and live. I have a lot more income than you and I have a much bigger margin for fuckups, though, so I can kind of half-rear end things and still wind up in the black, so I'm probably not the ideal example to follow.

quote:

Am I missing anything really conspicuous from this little budget?

You have the obvious stuff - rent, food, car, gas, utilities(?), phone, internet. I doubt anyone can guess what else should be on there. But it's OK because you have $103 worth of margin, right?

quote:

I'm
trying to bring the diet under control, which is expensive because I'm
replacing staples. I figure the extra food costs are mitigated by not
smoking or drinking.

I don't understand this. What do you mean, you're "replacing staples"? Seems to me you could diet by not shoveling in any more ridiculously-expensive mega-protein calorie shakes? Or have you stopped with that already? If you want advice on how to eat cheaply I'm sure several of us can give suggestions. (My own is to buy whole chickens, large bags of potatoes, fresh carrots, and rice. Oven-roast the whole chicken and eat chicken for a while: boil the leftover carcass and make stock, put some leftover chicken in the stock with veggies and make soup. Very cheap!)

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Leperflesh posted:

I don't really understand the question.


So, according to your budget, you'll be in the black. Right?


This confuses me. What do you mean by "austerity measures"?


What problem? Your money is earmarked by your budget and you have a net-positive budget, so you should not run out of money. Right?


Personally, I do three things:
1. I maintain a healthy cash balance month-to-month.
2. I budget based on average months. In other words, I add expenses that are non-monthly (annual expenses such as my annual car insurance payment, an allotment for christmas, etc.) to an overall budget and then divide by 12.
3. I have a significant margin for "etc." that covers a lot of unexpected and unplanned-for items.

Then I just go ahead and live. I have a lot more income than you and I have a much bigger margin for fuckups, though, so I can kind of half-rear end things and still wind up in the black, so I'm probably not the ideal example to follow.


You have the obvious stuff - rent, food, car, gas, utilities(?), phone, internet. I doubt anyone can guess what else should be on there. But it's OK because you have $103 worth of margin, right?


I don't understand this. What do you mean, you're "replacing staples"? Seems to me you could diet by not shoveling in any more ridiculously-expensive mega-protein calorie shakes? Or have you stopped with that already? If you want advice on how to eat cheaply I'm sure several of us can give suggestions. (My own is to buy whole chickens, large bags of potatoes, fresh carrots, and rice. Oven-roast the whole chicken and eat chicken for a while: boil the leftover carcass and make stock, put some leftover chicken in the stock with veggies and make soup. Very cheap!)

I guess I was just a little bit freaked out because the insurance company was like, "We need 600 bucks from you" and I knew that I had said that I was going to save for it, but I must have just not set up the payment or something.

The staples are things like spices and oils. I buy a lot so it almost never needs to be replaced, but it's more of a hit when it does need to be replaced. You just described most of my meals, except the potatoes. I'd steam a bunch of frozen broccoli and make soup with it instead.


Oh yeah, other news. They offered me ammo tech corporal, but armoured officer and pilot and a bunch of other trades that I'd rather do opened up this month, so I refused the offer. There's a small chance that they may release me for refusing, but my entire chain of command is behind me so it's very unlikely.

Devian666
Aug 19, 2008

Take some advice Frank.

For food I go by the rule of thumb in the Watch and Weight subforum. If you are gaining weight you have excess carbohydrate intake. That applies to any (or no) physical training. It sounds like you could remove some carbs from your diet. I find that tough myself but it's a way to save money on food. Your proposed diet sounds fine but keep an eye on your weight.

The insurance thing is a pain. Make sure you straighten it out so that you don't get surprises. Something has obviously happened but I'm sure you'll figure out what caused the surprise demand for payment.

I see you've asked about entertainment and that you're in the black as pointed out by the previous poster. For tight budgets like yours I recommend having a set amount for entertainment. Consider it a small reward for sticking to the plan. Just so long as you don't spend money needed for your stated medium term purchases, such as food supplies, and don't accumulate debt for entertainment (or spend savings).

When I was a student I went for years not even being able to afford to go to the movies more than once or twice a year. I didn't have money to spend so I didn't spend.

All the possible jobs sound good to me. I hope can get the role that you're after.

e: Re-reading back a couple of your posts I see that you are specifically asking about allocating money in the account for certain purchases. This is the correct thing to do as it is budgeting for expenses. It's best not to leave expenses out of a budget. It leads to less surprises and is honest about the real position of your cash flow.

There are some other things I'll suggest in the future but you need to get through the current patch of outgoing money, and once you hit your savings goal as it will be time to set another goal.

Devian666 fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2012 around 01:36

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

"You dont mess with the matters of the wombat the end of the day it is still murder."


Devian666 posted:

For food I go by the rule of thumb in the Watch and Weight subforum. If you are gaining weight you have excess carbohydrate intake. That applies to any (or no) physical training. It sounds like you could remove some carbs from your diet. I find that tough myself but it's a way to save money on food. Your proposed diet sounds fine but keep an eye on your weight.

This is stupid advice, eating carbohydrates doesn't make you fat, eating more calories of any kind that you don't burn off later makes you fat. And carbs, like fruits, veggies, potatoes & rice are the cheapest stuff you will find in any supermarket, so no, it doesn't save money on food either. If you honestly think buying a kilo of chicken is cheaper than buying a kilo of potatoes, you need to get mommy to stop doing your grocery shopping, and stop posting terrible financial advice in a finance thread.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Dwarf tits for the blood god!

SPERG FOR THE SPERG GOD


tuyop posted:

The staples are things like spices and oils.

A "staple" is a "basic or necessary item of food", such as flour, rice, or sugar. Spices are specifically not staples, although I guess cooking oil probably is one.

In any case, one's grocery budget is always going to be an average thing. Sometimes I need to buy a few of the more expensive items, and sometimes all I need is a bag of carrots, so each trip costs different. But you need to account for it all, so the best way to figure out how much you're spending on groceries is to average out several months worth of purchases.

Or to look at it a different way, you have to really consider whether you can afford a thing when you're grocery shopping. It may be that cardamom is outside of your budget and you will have to go without. It may be that you can afford to cook with canola oil but not the fancy imported extra virgin olive oil you like. These are the kinds of decisions you have to make every day when you are living on a budget, and making them right consistently takes practice and perseverance.

Trilineatus
Aug 17, 2011

I AM CTHULU ON THE ASTRAL PLANE GUYS


Leperflesh posted:


Or to look at it a different way, you have to really consider whether you can afford a thing when you're grocery shopping. It may be that cardamom is outside of your budget and you will have to go without. It may be that you can afford to cook with canola oil but not the fancy imported extra virgin olive oil you like. These are the kinds of decisions you have to make every day when you are living on a budget, and making them right consistently takes practice and perseverance.

I agree with every part of this, and indeed, one should extrapolate this to the larger scheme of things - compromise is part of a budget, and I know from following this thread that sometimes that is hard for you. You want the nice things that you know work, and feel are worth the money. However, sometimes that money just isn't there. I would love to be able to shop for only fresh produce, but as you know, frozen is often the way to go.

Think about this when shopping for other things - if your budget for misc is already spent, you will have to buy new t shirts next month, even if the ones you have are grungy - time to break out the $2 bleach, for instance. No matter how good of a deal there is on beer/spices/hookers, if you don't have the room in your budget, you can't afford it.

It's a hard habit to break when you are used to thinking of yourself as a person who can afford a goddamn tshirt or a jar of bay leaves, that you work hard and make good money, but it will really help your budget in the long run if you realize that you won't die going without, and will ultimately benefit from it, even if your chicken is bland and tasting of canola.

Also, if you aren't using coupons and weekly deals already, you need to start. I feed, bathe, and clothe myself every month with about a third of it given to me for free just for buying at the right time with the right store cards and cut outs.

Eggplant Wizard
Jul 8, 2005

I was getting sick of seeing that.


Devian666 posted:

For food I go by the rule of thumb in the Watch and Weight subforum. If you are gaining weight you have excess carbohydrate intake. That applies to any (or no) physical training. It sounds like you could remove some carbs from your diet. I find that tough myself but it's a way to save money on food. Your proposed diet sounds fine but keep an eye on your weight.

Don't even start. No low carb debates in here. If people want to share actually intelligent cooking and exercising on the cheap advice, go for it.

Crazy fad diet, I dunno if you'll believe me but it really works!!!
Exercise regularly and to actual levels of exertion (not just a stroll around the block) and eat a variety of foods, not too much of any particular kind of food, especially but not exclusively high calorie items (whether the calories come from carbs or fat is irrelevant). IT'S LIKE MAGIC! Watch the pounds melt away! over a couple months to years, but it'll put you in overall better health too

My advice on cheap cooking is that beans and even tofu are way cheaper than meat so try making a couple of vegetarian meals a week. If you do that, make sure you're mixing in whole grains like brown rice along with the beans so you get enough protein. As a meat eater you probably do not have to worry about this, really. Make enormous pots of chili, soup, etc. and freeze them in single portions. Tada! Cheap, healthy lunches you can bring to work or eat at home. The whole chicken thing is a great idea too, but you're doing that already.

Assess whether the frozen vegetables is actually cheaper by the pound than buying broccoli or carrots or spinach or green beans and cutting it up yourself. You can then freeze them, or steam them and have them with meals for a couple of days. Frozen is probably usually cheaper and often more nutritious, but I go through those bags so quickly that I hardly know if it's cheaper overall. Look for when veggies are on sale, too.

Devian666
Aug 19, 2008

Take some advice Frank.

Butt Wizard posted:

Don't even start. No low carb debates in here. If people want to share actually intelligent cooking and exercising on the cheap advice, go for it.

I messed up and didn't communicate well. I should have said calories, and what I meant to communicate is a slight reduction in food intake. Less food leading to less cost. I'll leave it at that as I don't want this to turn into a distracting derail.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Well, looking at my mint.com categories, I usually spend 150-200 on groceries a month. I eat meat and frozen vegetables. I buy these in bulk and make use of my freezer. There were significant savings when I moved from fresh fruit to frozen, at this thread's suggestion, then huge savings when I got a costco membership.

However, I've also gone from 180 pounds last October to 200 pounds now. I think the reason is that my activity level has completely bottomed-out because of my injury, but I think I've finally found a medication that works, I just had to go to a real doctor for once instead of an army nurse. I still feel bad about the weight though, so I'm trying to eat better, which means I'm spending more money on food this month. I'm also going to the gym now, trying to get back into it slowly. I know how to eat cheaply and I know how to eat healthily, and I'm not trying to turn this into a diet derail. I was just freaking out about things. Still in the black though, making all my payments!

Another "staple" (for me) is beef jerky. But I made almost eight pounds of it with 45 dollars of meat so I thought I did pretty well there.

A more pressing concern is the fact that I really want to get out of the military. People I respect and who have a lot of good sense are telling me that I should. They're making emotional appeals that I find really hard to ignore and I'm starting to think that they're right. Life is too short to spend four years of it being unhappy (when you could be happier for those four years just by making one decision).

I have to look into it, but a possible job that would be exactly what I'm looking for would be teaching in Native communities in the North. You don't need a teaching degree, you just need some kind of degree. You get isolation pay and other benefits, and you get to help people! Also I've really wanted to see the North.

Trilineatus
Aug 17, 2011

I AM CTHULU ON THE ASTRAL PLANE GUYS


My dad used to teach at a reservation in northern Alberta, and he has not a single good thing to say about it, and a lot of criticism for how the educational system has failed a lot of the First Nations kids up there. However, it's been ten years, so maybe you'd get lucky? However, size up your competition - where I live now in California, there is a hiring freeze on teachers, and you may find that while you aren't REQUIRED to have a teaching degree, all the other applicants may outcompete you by having one, thus setting the bar above your abilities. I wouldnt say you need to spend another four years in misery, but you really need to think about whether your chances are good enough to afford a job change - you are in the black now, but what if you were unemployed for six months? A year? What benefits are you giving up, especially during your recovery period? THINK CAREFULLY!

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005

Represent!

I'm familiar with similar programs for rural Alaska, and you need to be a real particular individual to put up with the conditions and the people. If it's for you though, the benefits are usually top notch to attract people and the people who get into it absolutely love it.

Adar
Jul 27, 2001

William "J." Fillmaff in training

tuyop posted:

A more pressing concern is the fact that I really want to get out of the military. People I respect and who have a lot of good sense are telling me that I should. They're making emotional appeals that I find really hard to ignore and I'm starting to think that they're right. Life is too short to spend four years of it being unhappy (when you could be happier for those four years just by making one decision).

tuyop posted:

I won't get descriptive or specific unless someone is interested, but this meeting was an awful, offensive, degrading experience.

I can't have another officer trade because there are none open that my education qualifies me for. I would need an engineering degree.

So I have two choices (which is really three choices).

1. I can decommission and take a specialist trade, which is a trade that pays ~25% more at each rank than normal trades.

2. I can voluntarily release.

3. I can fight for a trade that I want.

1. Has many upsides, but it's very emotional for me for some reason. I've spent the last 5 years in the army, including four years in university, and three years in high school streaming my life in a direction to basically manage and lead people, and I'm not bad at that. I've made a significant number of sacrifices and endured a lot of hardship to get where I am and I don't feel like I deserve to give it up. Decommissioning means that I'll be giving up my (laughable) position of power and connection and my rank and transferring to a Non-Commissioned Member trade. I was offered a lot of ridiculous trades that don't fit me at all (army plumber, barnacle scraper, etc) but I can pick almost any trade that I want because my aptitude test scores are high.

There are three specialist pay trades open right now, one of them I can't enter into. They are Hull Tech (barnacle scraper and boat plumber) and Aeronautical Technical Information Systems Tech (ATIS) (Air Force IT guy). I think I'll round out my three choices with vehicle tech. I'm not interested in any of these trades, or anything at all that's open. But they pay well. The other major consideration is training time. I have to serve three years in a new trade if/when I get qualified. ATIS has 48 weeks of training. H Tech has 25 weeks of training. Vehicle tech has ~95 weeks of training. I have the leadership training to qualify me as a Master Corporal right away, and the time in to qualify as a Corporal once trade qualified.

Right now I make 4322 a month before deductions and everything. Starting spec pay for an ATIS corporal is 5100. For a mcpl it's 5362 or 5559 depending on who you ask.

If all goes well with option 1 I can expect to be out in March 2016 with sizable savings, no debt, and qualifications that make me highly competitive in the civilian market for companies abroad with a 6-figure income, easily.

I don't really want any of that, I want to get the debt out of the way, leave the army military as soon as possible, go back to school, and teach. I don't care how much I can make in Dubai when I'm 27. I'm mentioning it because it's a pro of plan 1.

2. If I refuse to decommission, the only option available is to release. Since the military paid for two years of my university, I owe them 36 months. If I release I have to pay back the time owed minus the time served. I have served 22 of those months. I can't get an estimate of what my personal obligatory service buyout would be because it's highly individualized and they only tell you after you've gone the release road and military lawyers do the estimate and manage the whole process.

I spent a lot of time today trying to figure out what my buyout would be. I'd have to repay two years of university and two years of salary minus 8 months. I think I've got it figured out at somewhere between 20 000 and 52 000. This doesn't have to be paid in a lump sum, but they'll garnish your future earnings for basically forever.

The other problem is that you request release, the army can say no for the duration of your contract. Common reasons for saying no to a voluntary release (VR) are unresolved medical problems and debt. If I do 2 I may simply be denied and stuck in my current position... forever.

The end-state on plan 2 is, in 6-8 months I have an additional 20 to 50k in debt, no employment, no income, and no job prospects. I'll have to take on an additional 20 000 in debt to get a teaching degree, and may have trouble finding a teaching job for an indeterminable amount of time. I would be living with my parents, unemployed, unemployable, dead broke, and stuck. The end result would almost certainly be bankruptcy in the next 3-5 years.

The only reason to consider 2 is that it gets me the gently caress out of the military quickly. I think I'm learning that freedom isn't really worth any amount of money, and I definitely don't feel free. I didn't make any of my plans or sacrifices to do a job that is basically putting servers together in Cold Lake, Alberta. I can't identify with a job in any sort of technical trade for a lot of reasons. I feel like a classist gently caress for feeling this way, but I have a skillset that will not be used effectively in any of the options that the military is giving me. I'm also worried now that I've been treating my girlfriend, who is a vehicle tech and certified carpenter, like I'm superior because I have some kind of managerial status. She's in the field right now, but I need to have a long talk about these options, and not just because they affect our ability to make a life together.

The third option is to fight. Basically it involves scouring the school for anyone in a position of authority who has ever had a positive interaction with me, getting them to put in writing that I demonstrated qualities of a good combat arms officer, having the commandant of the Infantry School sign off on the fact that said that I should be an armoured officer, and pouncing on the BPSO with all of this ammunition.

The main problem with the third option is that it will take a very long time. That would be an agonizing, lengthy process that will probably take this whole year. The training time in another officer trade won't go away, and the required service afterward won't go away either. I will be (more) satisfied with my job in the end, but I may be in the military until I'm 30 because of it. It'll also make me feel really really good because I beat the BPSO by loving around the system.

Financially, nothing really changes in 3. I won't be getting any promotions or pay increases the entire time, my job won't change at all, and my location won't change. The end result is eventual qualification and work in another officer trade only to leave three years later so that I can do what I really want.


I don't know what to do. I've talked to my parents, they want me to get out. I need to talk to my girlfriend. And now I'm consulting you guys.

Did anything about that post change in the last couple of months?

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


Adar posted:

Did anything about that post change in the last couple of months?

Yeah, I've talked to a lot of people in and out of the military and none of them have recommended staying in at this point. Except maybe my mother, but she was just trying to put a positive spin on the whole thing.

I may just need a good kick in the rear end, but it seems like I'm about to sign a four-year sentence to suffer the same poo poo I've been putting up with for the past five years. I'm just done with it. Last weekend was my birthday, and I couldn't stop thinking that when I was posted to Gagetown I was 22, and I haven't achieved a single thing in my life since. The army has taken away my hobbies, trapped me in a lovely community with no support network, and lately separated me from the woman I love pretty much permanently. If I put in my release tomorrow, I probably won't be out until 6-12 months from now. In six months I'll have six months of obligatory service left, which is 8400 dollars if I calculated the rate that it goes down properly. I have return of contributions from my pension which is more than 15 000 and a severance package that the government is buying out which is worth 5000.

I can call my bank and cancel the Visa and hopefully have the rate lowered and settle the whole thing with a, hopefully lower, monthly fee. I can move back in with my parents if I need to, and I can spend the next 6-12 months trying to line up work in Ontario where the girlfriend is. Or I can go back to school and take a BEd next year, spending the next 6-12 months making minimum payments and saving. There are options there, it's just not the easiest or clearest route to success. But I'd rather be a broke failure moving toward a career that I want than a broke success, miserable in a job that I hate.

Last week I put up a memo that refused an offer for ammo tech. I asked for another BPSO meeting because I found a lot of inconsistencies with what the BPSO told me and what's supported by the military. They might give me the BPSO meeting, and he might just tell me that my only option is to release.

I think I'm just wasting everyone's time. This is not the career for me, it's just the easiest thing I could do at this point. If I could go back in time and tell myself at 22 what my life is like at 24 and what I planned to do, I'd be horrified and disgusted. I feel like a traitor to my own principles for wasting my life like this.

So yeah, all the math in the world can't scare me as much as the thought of working another four years in this loving organization. But maybe I can be cowed into it?

Breetai
Nov 6, 2005

Mah spoon is too big!


Dude, mid-20s is so incredibly loving young. Do what you need to do, but bear in mind that doing the right thing now will mean that you don't have the exact same financial problems following you until your mid-thirties. That would be a tragedy.

Suffer a bit today for financial freedom tomorrow.

CanadianSuperKing
Dec 29, 2008


tuyop posted:

Yeah, I've talked to a lot of people in and out of the military and none of them have recommended staying in at this point. Except maybe my mother, but she was just trying to put a positive spin on the whole thing.

I may just need a good kick in the rear end, but it seems like I'm about to sign a four-year sentence to suffer the same poo poo I've been putting up with for the past five years. I'm just done with it. Last weekend was my birthday, and I couldn't stop thinking that when I was posted to Gagetown I was 22, and I haven't achieved a single thing in my life since. The army has taken away my hobbies, trapped me in a lovely community with no support network, and lately separated me from the woman I love pretty much permanently. If I put in my release tomorrow, I probably won't be out until 6-12 months from now. In six months I'll have six months of obligatory service left, which is 8400 dollars if I calculated the rate that it goes down properly. I have return of contributions from my pension which is more than 15 000 and a severance package that the government is buying out which is worth 5000.

I can call my bank and cancel the Visa and hopefully have the rate lowered and settle the whole thing with a, hopefully lower, monthly fee. I can move back in with my parents if I need to, and I can spend the next 6-12 months trying to line up work in Ontario where the girlfriend is. Or I can go back to school and take a BEd next year, spending the next 6-12 months making minimum payments and saving. There are options there, it's just not the easiest or clearest route to success. But I'd rather be a broke failure moving toward a career that I want than a broke success, miserable in a job that I hate.

Last week I put up a memo that refused an offer for ammo tech. I asked for another BPSO meeting because I found a lot of inconsistencies with what the BPSO told me and what's supported by the military. They might give me the BPSO meeting, and he might just tell me that my only option is to release.

I think I'm just wasting everyone's time. This is not the career for me, it's just the easiest thing I could do at this point. If I could go back in time and tell myself at 22 what my life is like at 24 and what I planned to do, I'd be horrified and disgusted. I feel like a traitor to my own principles for wasting my life like this.

So yeah, all the math in the world can't scare me as much as the thought of working another four years in this loving organization. But maybe I can be cowed into it?

With a military girlfriend/partner I think the separation will be a long term thing unless you follow her to those communities. It is hard to have a good stable career if you're moving with your partner. The military is your best financial option but I'd hate to be stuck in something I hate like that. Welp.

Wolfy
Jul 13, 2009


Just look at it as investing a few years in order to get your education degree debt free.

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008


I dunno dude I'd really think about staying in. It's been a while since I read over your options, but I was optimistically thinking that being an IT grunt in the service would be less military-like than it is now and would feel like more of a job.

Yea, maybe it's not what you want to do but financially it may make a lot of sense not digging yourself a deeper hole while working towards what you'd like to do (education).

But again, it's your life. We're just the ones that critique it.

tuyop
Sep 14, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted


I had a meeting with my company 2IC today. The CO won't let me have another meeting with the BPSO, my only option is either Ammo Tech or release. I don't want to be an Ammo Tech, so I submitted my release.

I'm looking for a part-time job right now, I'm switching all of my extra income over to savings as well and just making minimum payments. By November I have to be able to afford tuition for a BEd and have enough income to make my minimum payments until I can sell my car, which is next April.

What it costs to live rundown

My minimum monthly payment on debt is 648.

Bills that can't be changed due to contracts or factors outside of my control (power, internet, rent, etc.) cost 749.

Things that are negotiable are: gas costs, car service, groceries, all discretionary pleasure expenses, cell phone bill (I've had some long distance charges which will stop now), Bank fees (just signed up for a bank with a no-fee chequing account, I hate their web interface but 15 dollars a month is too much right now), anything home related (including soaps, toilet paper, etc), any buying of anything new, period. I believe I can bring all of these costs down to 447 a month, on average. Right now they cost 1112.

So, my minimum amount required to survive is: 1844

Or, 46 hours a week at minimum wage. I have no idea what work I'm qualified to do with my experience and degree, or what wage I can expect. I know that any part-time job I can get now will probably be minimum wage, though. Unless you guys have any advice or experience in this sort of thing:


I'm seriously considering squatting in the forest near the base or living in the back of my car parked in one of the Podunk towns around here. I could potentially save 2130 dollars by November, probably more in food costs because everything I'd eat would be stored in my office fridge and cooked via microwave. My health and fitness would suffer, but at this point, who gives a gently caress about 6 months of potential gains?

So what do you guys think?

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Adar
Jul 27, 2001

William "J." Fillmaff in training

I think you should reread this entire thread from the beginning and then think long and hard about ammo teching your way through the next few years, because as bad as I'm sure it sounds there's a very good chance you're gonna regret this decision really quickly. At this point, you're almost better off joining the Foreign Legion than any of the ideas you've come up with ITT.

-starting a very long road towards what you acknowledge as a low paying save the world gig very deep in the hole
-resigning yourself to being broke forever
-doing all this so you can stay with your girl, then, one post later, 'oh, all those long distance charges are gonna stop now'

Yeah, I don't buy this. Ammo tech wouldn't be my cup of tea, either. But if you go as badly wrong as you have the potential to right here, you're one of those people that's gonna be legitimately better off emigrating and changing their citizenship just to avoid the fuckups they made in their 20's.

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